No cockpit view

[Guest deleted@13284]

I'm just wondering if this has been discussed before? I would like to see a 'no cockpit' view as an option like in War Thunder (or the Ctrl+F1 view in IL-2 '46) to make it easier for ground attack. I'm struggling with that aspect of the game. It would be better if I had  an uncluttered forward view. What are the chances of anything like this being made available in the future?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

It is not likely and has been discussed to no end in other threads.

[Jaeger55]

Let people play the way they want. Part of the original winning formula.

[IIN8II]

I think that it should at least be available for replays. 

[BraveSirRobin]

I suspect this would require significant changes to the guts of the game's code, so it probably is not going to happen.

[voncrapenhauser]

Has been discussed many times before.

 

IMO an ON/OFF function will keep all happy as long as not in expert MP.

 

+1 with N8 on replays would also add to his excellent Videos.

Let people play the way they want. Part of the original winning formula.

+1

[Guest deleted@13284]

It is not likely and has been discussed to no end in other threads.

 

Ah ok. It's a shame that It probably won't happen then. It's very restricting,especially for  WT players who are used to such a view.

[taffy2jeffmorgan]

There was a time when I felt that I just could not fly and fight without "No Cockpit View" but you do adapt and with TrackIR, full cockpit is the only way to fly, 

Edited February 18, 2015 by taffy2jeffmorgan

[wellenbrecher]

I suspect this would require significant changes to the guts of the game's code, so it probably is not going to happen.

Unlikely.

Given that there's a fly-by view and third person view and all, taking away the cockpit "texture" and model is already possible and being done.

There already is an instrument bar that gives you almost everything you need to know to fly.

 

But yeah, anyway:

This has been discussed to death, but was there ever an official response? I can't remember.

[Guest deleted@13284]

If I had TrackIR maybe it wouldn't be so bad but I gave mine away last year as I thought I was done with simming. I miss it now and am considering getting a new one.

[voncrapenhauser]

There was a time when I felt that I just could not fly and fight without "No Cockpit View" but you do adapt and with TrackIR, full cockpit is the only way to fly, 

Me too.

 

It seems second nature now after encountering it on ROF for the first time.

 

I get on fine now and I do not have track IR.

[SharpeXB]

I think one of the Devs mentioned a long while back that they might comsider it.

My own 2 cents is that in today's sims with the challenging flight models it would make the aircraft exceedingly difficult to handle without any visual reference of your own plane. I even have trouble sometimes with blister canopy planes where at certain views I can't at least see a single frame to get some feedback.

[voncrapenhauser]

Il2 1946 had that floating cross hairs widdget thingamajig.

 

Helped a bit with orientation.

[Rama]

This has been discussed to death, but was there ever an official response? I can't remember.

Yes, it was said at least once by a dev that the wonderwoman view will not be implemented.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

I mean no offense here but isn't the small red line between arcade and simulation just that. I mean where I respect anyone's desire to have the game/Sim "their way", this is a flight simulation (for as far as it goes). It's not sacrilege to want this, just takes away from what a Flight Sim is suppose to be (by my thoughts any way).

 

I would agree, if it were possible, to this in playback/recordings as this might be used artistically towards making movies. But the Wonder Woman view should stay where it is, in comics and not in flight sims.  

 

This is but a personal view point and that's all.

 

Chief

[voncrapenhauser]

I think if it brings new blood to the Sim/game, all the better.

 

After all were talking about a function that could ne turned off if you want.

 

Some People claim that this is a Sim and not a game and there's this imaginary line to cross.

 

What I personally want is to be entertained with a Game such as BOS but with realistic(as best you can make) flight models that reflect the actual aircraft and historical events.

 

If the choice is there? Why the heck not?

 

Its always your choice how you play and why then deny others how to play their Game/Sim?

 

As I have said before the In cockpit view for me gives best immersion.

 

Its my personal choice.

Edited February 18, 2015 by voncrapenhauser

[BraveSirRobin]

Unlikely.

Given that there's a fly-by view and third person view and all, taking away the cockpit "texture" and model is already possible and being done.

 

 

Neither of those views "removes the cockpit texture".   They're just external views.  Removing the aircraft completely from the screen when you should be able to see it is completely different.  So, no, not unlikely at all.

[wellenbrecher]

Err, ok. I'm struggling a bit to explain the next bit, not a native speaker so bear with me when it sounds weird.

 

Go to outside view and tell me how the cockpit gauges and everything work in your cockpit.

Oh, they don't?

Because when you see your own plane from the outside it's just as if you saw one flown by another player just without the model and textures of your cockpit shoved in between you and what you are looking at.

 

Or maybe like so:

If the two of us were to fly next to each other, the cockpit you are seeing, with all the moving parts and gauges and whatnot, does not exist on my end. For me there is only the generic outside view model one.

 

 

So yeah, the outside view removes the cockpit overlay/model. It's basically the same as a wonderwoman view.

 

 

/edit

Most obvious way to test it is to go to outside view and move the throttle. You'll see no movement in the cockpit even though we know the throttle would be moving if you were inside.

Edited February 18, 2015 by wellenbrecher

[Rama]

So yeah, the outside view removes the cockpit overlay/model. It's basically the same as a wonderwoman view.

 

Maybe, but basically there's no WW view in game, and there won't be.

 

Only wonder tattletale will stay on the forum, until forum's end.   

[BraveSirRobin]

 

So yeah, the outside view removes the cockpit overlay/model. It's basically the same as a wonderwoman view.

 

 

But it doesn't get rid of everything else, which is sort of the problem.  And getting rid of everything else might be a lot more difficult than you seem to think it is.

 

I suppose they could create a prop spinner view, but then people will complain that they can't see to the rear.

[Sokol1]

I think that it should at least be available for replays. 

 

In some thread Misticpanda ask for this - for movies - and Zak say "maybe". 

[wellenbrecher]

But it doesn't get rid of everything else, which is sort of the problem.  And getting rid of everything else might be a lot more difficult than you seem to think it is.

 

I suppose they could create a prop spinner view, but then people will complain that they can't see to the rear.

I have no idea what you're getting at.

And I wasn't saying that outside view is the same as wonderwoman view for the players as is, but that mechanically for the devs it's similar as it relies on the same mechanics.

[BraveSirRobin]

I have no idea what you're getting at.

And I wasn't saying that outside view is the same as wonderwoman view for the players as is, but that mechanically for the devs it's similar as it relies on the same mechanics.

 

Sorry, I didn't know that you were a programmer on the development team.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I sum my opinions

 

1) each to their own. More options bigger player base.

 

2) control of these options must be set by user wants in sp and by server administration in mp(the awaited dsdserver)

 

3) I'm my experience if u like this game u will transition (to a higher level but not necessarily full sim).

 

There should be no debate about the inclusion of options (unless it's like proper simplified physics etc). People need to realise that their preferences are not what makes the overall enjoyment and success of a title like this

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Some say it should be an option. An option? Online or just in single player? Because if you say online then hell no. The argument is older than BoS is young. The advantage, even taking in to consideration of a BAD pilot, that a pilot gets from no impeded view, i.e. Wonder Woman, is plain scary.  So if it was put up to a vote, I'd say NO. If it happens, then it happens. But I wont knowingly fly with anyone using it.

 

Chief

[7.GShAP/Silas]

This is a simulation series by it's own admonition and definition. It cannot be all things to all people and still retain the character and identity that makes it what it is(that is to say, gives it it's integrity) . People who would like a more "free spirited" experience are welcome to patronize other games that cater to them rather than looking to change this one for their personal convenience.

 

From a personal standpoint, a larger playerbase that comes with the caveat that there must from thence forward be a casual mode does not entice me, as they won't be playing on the same servers as me. They will most certainly siphon off others who might otherwise join me and my comrades, and I doubt that many will ever fight the path of least resistance to explore the actual simulation( I spent enough time sitting in "simulation mode" queues in War Thunder to test that theory, not to mention seeding "expert" servers in BOS) .

 

That's my personal opinion on the matter. While others may disagree, the devs have already replied to this request in the negative, making this particular debate a moot point.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Silas

[Rolling_Thunder]

I sum my opinions

1) each to their own. More options bigger player base.

Each to their own. More options bigger player base. Let's do away with flight models. Some folk find them too hard. Let's make all the aircraft perform exactly the same. Then the devs can release an aircraft every week, hell every day. We'll get a new aircraft with no cockpit every day. Fantastic.

A bit absurd I know. Wonder woman view, in my opinion, is a cheat. It gives a player an advantage over a player not using it. It's mouse aim, it's a game feature.

[grumpydog]

 

 

I sum my opinions 1) each to their own. More options bigger player base.

 

That's exactly why I'm not buying BoS. I realize a lot of you would get off on a 10-page discussion about cowl flaps, but I just want to fly and have fun.

 

I was really excited when I saw the first BoS trailers early last year, and I was planning on buying it, but after following this thread for awhile I know I'd only be disappointed. I'm a casual flyer, not a hardcore simmer. I fly strictly SP, not interested in flying online. I've read comments from people who have bought 2-3 premium licenses to support the devs. Good for you! I'm not that rich. If I'm going to spend $60-100 on a flight sim, I'd like to be able to fly over more than just snow, and without an FMB where I can create my own content, there's just not enough there. (And I'm not even going to mention the unlocks...  )

 

@Rolling_Blunder... you can be sarcastic all you want, but the devs are going to feel this lack of options in their bank account.  I always fly with full cockpit, so I don't care about that in particular, but I do care about not having choices. 

 

I was looking forward to BoS, but for now, I'll stick with 1946 and CloD. 

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

Back when I started with '46 I never knew about this WW view. So my first few months of learning to fly was..well in a cockpit. I tried it after I found out about and did not like it, my visual cues were gone and it was disorienting. Its been beaten to death around here but who's to say we won't see it sometime though. 

[Finkeren]

I will never, ever use the Wonder Woman View, but if it's not a big deal creating it (which would also involve removing the external aircraft model and propeller disk from internal view) I don't mind having it as an option.

 

If it's gonna hog resources for the development, however, I don't think it's worth it.

[Sokol1]

 I'm a casual flyer, not a hardcore simmer.

 

All in same boat, as the game has less options casual (no wonder woman view..) has less options for hardcore (no expert without icons on map).

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I get on fine now and I do not have track IR.

+1 Have flown wihtout headtracking for 4 years now completely fine (just got freetrack running recently). Hat switch isn't that bad since you always have a stable view in a specific direction with a good focus for spotting, which is more difficult with headtracking. As for the orientation in dogfights I admit it's uncomfortable to use, but with training you can make it work.

 

I know guys with headtracking who had worse situational awareness than me during dogfights despite not having to exercise all the "thumb gymnastics" I had. Apart from that the hat switch setting adjustability in BoS and RoF isn't bad and allows for smooth and clean transitions.

 

Just saying, TIR isn't a nessety. Too often newcomers fear getting into a sim due to fearing to face better equiped players, which in my opinion is just plain wrong.

 

So far to that, cockpit is the way to go for me. A "no-cockpit view" as an optional feauture for Normal mode would be ok to me, but on the other hand encourage all normal players to enable it in order to get the most advantage. I'd preferr it - if ever going to be implented - to be placed in a seperate difficulty setting or as a feauture for quick missions and custom setting hosted servers only (without any relation to current difficulty settings).

Edited February 19, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Guest deleted@13284]

Let me just say that I'm not after a 'War Thunder' experience here or the dumbing down of BoS. I have War Thunder for that. In fact this will be the first sim I have ever started to play where I wanted to use CEM. It's been difficult but I persevered and now I'm not sure I want to play without it.

 

Of course it should not be an option in MP unless on a  server that allows it.

 

I'd also love some sort of option on a full real server to be able to navigate more easily. All I see is snow and I get lost far too easily. In fact on one occasion I never saw another player or target and eventually ran out of fuel. Admittedly I did  have a reduced fuel load. However I am prepared to put some work into navigation so we'll see how that goes.

[LeonMadDog]

Currently using IL-2 Series (1946 and prior), I am disappointed to hear BOS does not have No Cockpit view. Yes, I agree it is cheating compared to using normal virtual cockpit - and would be unfair in MP. But I am a SP type, and I like having the option.

Even though it is said this subject has been well thrashed, I would like to say what has probably been said already - -

1) In real life you have your 5 senses and a movable head to develope your Situational Awareness. So you cannot say that having No Cockpit view is out of order in a sim environment - when all you have is pixels on a screen to develop your SA.

2) You can configure No Cockpit view to help with bombing  - - - by using the aircraft icon and the terrain icon as reference points - - - as a sort of Bombsight - - personally I don't know how you can use normal CP view when bombing in non bombsight planes.

[SharpeXB]

I don't know how you can use normal CP view when bombing in non bombsight planes.

Practice ;-)

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Planes without bombsight require different bombing technics than usual bomber. Primarily divebombing is your way to go.

 

You practise it by diving down on your target and keeping it in your usual gunsight as long as possible, than release your bomb just before pulling out.

 

The steeper you dive and the lower you pull out the more accurate your drop will be.

 

Thats why dive bombers like the Stuka enjoyed relatively high bombing precision against small and moving targets which couldnt be attacked effectively with conventional horizontal bombers.

 

Sry for offtopic, just trying to help.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Bearcat]

Currently using IL-2 Series (1946 and prior), I am disappointed to hear BOS does not have No Cockpit view. Yes, I agree it is cheating compared to using normal virtual cockpit - and would be unfair in MP. But I am a SP type, and I like having the option.

Even though it is said this subject has been well thrashed, I would like to say what has probably been said already - -

1) In real life you have your 5 senses and a movable head to develope your Situational Awareness. So you cannot say that having No Cockpit view is out of order in a sim environment - when all you have is pixels on a screen to develop your SA.

2) You can configure No Cockpit view to help with bombing  - - - by using the aircraft icon and the terrain icon as reference points - - - as a sort of Bombsight - - personally I don't know how you can use normal CP view when bombing in non bombsight planes.

 

 

The term cheating gets bandied about way too much IMO. How is that cheating if it is a server setable option that everyone can choose to use or not use?

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

This is a simulation series by it's own admonition and definition. It cannot be all things to all people and still retain the character and identity that makes it what it is(that is to say, gives it it's integrity) . People who would like a more "free spirited" experience are welcome to patronize other games that cater to them rather than looking to change this one for their personal convenience.

 

From a personal standpoint, a larger playerbase that comes with the caveat that there must from thence forward be a casual mode does not entice me, as they won't be playing on the same servers as me. They will most certainly siphon off others who might otherwise join me and my comrades, and I doubt that many will ever fight the path of least resistance to explore the actual simulation( I spent enough time sitting in "simulation mode" queues in War Thunder to test that theory, not to mention seeding "expert" servers in BOS) .

 

That's my personal opinion on the matter. While others may disagree, the devs have already replied to this request in the negative, making this particular debate a moot point.

 

You say so much better than I  thank you.

 

That's exactly why I'm not buying BoS. I realize a lot of you would get off on a 10-page discussion about cowl flaps, but I just want to fly and have fun.

 

I was really excited when I saw the first BoS trailers early last year, and I was planning on buying it, but after following this thread for awhile I know I'd only be disappointed. I'm a casual flyer, not a hardcore simmer. I fly strictly SP, not interested in flying online. I've read comments from people who have bought 2-3 premium licenses to support the devs. Good for you! I'm not that rich. If I'm going to spend $60-100 on a flight sim, I'd like to be able to fly over more than just snow, and without an FMB where I can create my own content, there's just not enough there. (And I'm not even going to mention the unlocks...  )

 

@Rolling_Blunder... you can be sarcastic all you want, but the devs are going to feel this lack of options in their bank account.  I always fly with full cockpit, so I don't care about that in particular, but I do care about not having choices. 

 

I was looking forward to BoS, but for now, I'll stick with 1946 and CloD. 

 

With all due respect to your choice, you know the 'old' IL-2 wasn't any more single player friendly than BoS was in the beginning. With time I hope things will change. I believe what your looking for is 'good' single player missions. Those will come soon. So though I would never try to get anyone to buy something they did not like, I would ask that you be patient with this sim and perhaps give it a chance later after the players get hold of the creative stick.

 

And there's nothing wrong with a little 'sarcasm'. It's what makes the world turn.

 

Chief

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Grumpy, I just gifted four planes. PM me in six months. If the stars align and there is good SP content, (there will be FMB, at least one green map, and probably community SP content by then) I'll make you my quarterly gift - a standard edition of BOS. You have to buy your own premium planes to avoid the unlocks though. Q3/August.

[grumpydog]

 

 

you know the 'old' IL-2 wasn't any more single player friendly than BoS was in the beginning.

 

That could be, I started around 2005-6 with Forgotten Battles / Pacific Fighters, and out of the box it was an SP's dream. So many aircraft, so many missions, an easy-to-use full FMB and all the options anyone could want (in those days of ancient technology   ). I flew it for 4-5 years until my computer broke, and in all that time I never felt I was missing out on anything and I was never bored. I think If I bought BoS today, I'd love the graphics and have a great deal of fun for a couple of weeks, but after a while it wouldn't be enough anymore.

 

Anyway, it's the dev's choice and this must be the way they want it, so if I don't like it, tough! I just think if they tried to appeal to more casual flyers as well they'd be selling a lot more than they are now, and that would give them more resources to devote to the hardcore guys, too.

 

But I'll keep an eye on BoS. I'd love to buy it one day, just not the way it is now. 

Grumpy, I just gifted four planes. PM me in six months. If the stars align and there is good SP content, (there will be FMB, at least one green map, and probably community SP content by then) I'll make you my quarterly gift - a standard edition of BOS. You have to buy your own premium planes to avoid the unlocks though. Q3/August.

 

I will, HerrMurf, and thank you! 

 

Say what you will about BoS, this community is the BEST!