DigitalEngine Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) "detailed aircraft systems modeling," At this promise or expectation, I am really disappointed in, as I wouldn't call BOS as being a "detailed systems aircraft simulation" by any means. Of course being an avionics mechanic for a major airline maybe my expectations of a detailed systems simulation are somewhat different than 777 studios expectations. Or maybe DCS just has us spoiled in this area... . And, or but, I still by far spend the majority of my simulation "flight time" in the the IL-2 1946 world, (with HSFX of course) But, the hundred $dollar$ question really is, will I purchase BOM..... ......Yeah, most likely will....(and after all 777 is a business, so that's the question which really matters) BTW, one the most basic instruments, the altimeter, and one of the very first basic things a new student pilot, technician, or whatever learns to do, is to set the barometric pressure on the altimeter to field height or current pressure, just wondering what's missing here..... And then there's the radios.., I think it'd be really cool to know and simulate how World War Two Russian and German radios actually worked and functioned in detail.... ah, there's the detail again... the devil's in the details.....as the saying goes... Edited February 16, 2015 by BlueMatrix
ShamrockOneFive Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Not a bad list Yakdriver but a few historical errors. Yak-9K isn't a Kursk aircraft. Testing began on the type in early 1944 and I think its only battle was Berlin where the 45mm cannon was ultimately of limited use. The Leningrad planeset is also not representative of anything present at that battle. The war had moved on when most of those came into service. Were you thinking of Berlin instead? That list would fit better there. Or the TB-3. LOL yes Quite the plane that TB-3 was... the most hilarious thing I ever saw with it was TB-3 dogfights. Someone had a coop going for a while and it was hilarious. We'd cram a bunch of gunners and a pilot in there and we'd circle endlessly until everyone had crashed. Usually it was mutually assured destruction.
unreasonable Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 It will be interesting to see what the map covers. Operation Typhoon and the Soviet counteroffensive covered a much larger area than the Stalingrad battle; at first glance you might need at least three times the area of BoS if the map is covering both northern and southern pincers of the German encirclement operation. Alternatively, if map size is a resource or program constraint, you could just pick a BoS sized map somewhere to ye west edge of Moscow and admit it has to be semi-historical for practical reasons, or just cover either the northern or southern pincer.
ShamrockOneFive Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 It will be interesting to see what the map covers. Operation Typhoon and the Soviet counteroffensive covered a much larger area than the Stalingrad battle; at first glance you might need at least three times the area of BoS if the map is covering both northern and southern pincers of the German encirclement operation. Alternatively, if map size is a resource or program constraint, you could just pick a BoS sized map somewhere to ye west edge of Moscow and admit it has to be semi-historical for practical reasons, or just cover either the northern or southern pincer. I've been thinking about that. Assuming limitations I would hope that it would be from Moscow in the east to Rzhev and Vyazma in the west? The closer they can reach towards Smolensk the more useful the summer and autumn maps would be.
1CGS LukeFF Posted February 16, 2015 1CGS Posted February 16, 2015 BTW, one the most basic instruments, the altimeter, and one of the very first basic things a new student pilot, technician, or whatever learns to do, is to set the barometric pressure on the altimeter to field height or current pressure, just wondering what's missing here..... That feature is in the game.
Yakdriver Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 IL-10 over Leningrad? 190 A3 over Stalingrad? Il-10 late 1944, helping to push the germans back shortly after the lift of the siege, why not? Not a bad list Yakdriver but a few historical errors. Yak-9K isn't a Kursk aircraft. Testing began on the type in early 1944 and I think its only battle was Berlin where the 45mm cannon was ultimately of limited use. The Leningrad planeset is also not representative of anything present at that battle. The war had moved on when most of those came into service. Were you thinking of Berlin instead? That list would fit better there. effin ell dudes, it was 2 in the morning, i was spending my last CPU cycles on that post before hitting the sack cut me some slack will ye
SYN_Ricky Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 190 A3 over Stalingrad? Il-10 late 1944, helping to push the germans back shortly after the lift of the siege, why not? effin ell dudes, it was 2 in the morning, i was spending my last CPU cycles on that post before hitting the sack cut me some slack will ye The siege was lifted in January 1944. At the Time you would find FW 190 A5/A6, Bf-109G6 (no AS, and not sure if there were Bf-109 units there at that time)), Yak-7/9 (no Yak-3 yet), La-5FN. The Mig-3 had been long phased out by then. No Il-10s yet too.
EAF19_Marsh Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 That feature is in the game. I did not know this, so you can zero all altimeters to your home field? Out of interest, was there any hint that part of the automated but detailed starting procedure might be opened to manual input?
sallee Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Or the TB-3. I don't think we'll be seeing TB-3 in the game. Jason already said that the team doesn't like making big cities and that thing must be about the size of Rotterdam. The TB-3 is amusingly referred to in Fields of Fire as "The Communal Grave".
Feathered_IV Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I had enormous fun hanging from one of those in an I-16 when ZvsW had a mission with them up against Ki-27's and 43's. Great times.
voncrapenhauser Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Hopefully there will be a different price for those who already own BoS as well.. but it is so far off... I am looking forward to the updates to BoS whenever they are done.. Yes I already have the main game and would begrudge paying for the game engine again. Hopefully BOM as a DLC for those who have bought should be cheaper than BOS. A fair price for say the maps and the new aircraft would be fine by me. Again I may be stating the obvious here. Edited February 16, 2015 by voncrapenhauser
II/JG17_HerrMurf Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Frankly, I'd expect the price to be within 10% or so of the original. All of the staff will still be working, sounds like the staff may have actually increased slightly, all of the current features will still be getting tweaked, and new content is being added. Money will probably have to be payed forward to investors still, as well. $59/89 seems reasonable and I'm willing to pay the original price if that is what is required to get the next one.
voncrapenhauser Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Frankly, I'd expect the price to be within 10% or so of the original. All of the staff will still be working, sounds like the staff may have actually increased slightly, all of the current features will still be getting tweaked, and new content is being added. Money will probably have to be payed forward to investors still, as well. $59/89 seems reasonable and I'm willing to pay the original price if that is what is required to get the next one. Yes that seems like a reasonable price to me too. We will see by the time BOM is ready opinions of this Game may have changed. I will still buy BOM when its ready even on strength of what we have now. I am forever the optimist, we will see what comes in next update. Edited February 16, 2015 by voncrapenhauser
KpaxBos Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I did not know this, so you can zero all altimeters to your home field? Yes : Altimeter: reference pressure toggle : LAlt + A 1
Yakdriver Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I don't think we'll be seeing TB-3 in the game. Jason already said that the team doesn't like making big cities and that thing must be about the size of Rotterdam. excellent
ShamrockOneFive Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 190 A3 over Stalingrad? Il-10 late 1944, helping to push the germans back shortly after the lift of the siege, why not? effin ell dudes, it was 2 in the morning, i was spending my last CPU cycles on that post before hitting the sack cut me some slack will ye Not trying to criticize the efforts. I've been doing the same in my head. On the FW190A-3 front... know its been done to death but it was not a plane that was over Stalingrad at any point but it was in combat service in the Eastern front theatre. It's a stretch but I'll give it to the dev team especially with the third party maps coming out. By comparison the IL-10 showed up during the Berlin battle. You seem to love the planes from that particular battle... something to ask for in future iterations of IL-2 maybe? I would love to see the Seelow Heights given some justice in the Digital Nature engine.
Yakdriver Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Not trying to criticize the efforts. I've been doing the same in my head. On the FW190A-3 front... know its been done to death but it was not a plane that was over Stalingrad at any point but it was in combat service in the Eastern front theatre. It's a stretch but I'll give it to the dev team especially with the third party maps coming out. By comparison the IL-10 showed up during the Berlin battle. You seem to love the planes from that particular battle... something to ask for in future iterations of IL-2 maybe? I would love to see the Seelow Heights given some justice in the Digital Nature engine. Oh no, not at all. anything past december 1942, and i am helpless. Its just fun, bashing together a 10-slot planeset and associate a city and timeframe with it. BoDunkirk E3 E4 110C B stuka Dornier Early Heinkel extra: He-112 AI: He115 Battle Gladiator Hurricane Blenheim Whitley extra: Defiant (lol... get the AI behaviopr right!) AI: Anson
unreasonable Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I've been thinking about that. Assuming limitations I would hope that it would be from Moscow in the east to Rzhev and Vyazma in the west? The closer they can reach towards Smolensk the more useful the summer and autumn maps would be. Looking at a couple of maps for Operation Typhoon, you would really want the map to go all the way west to the start line at Smolensk. With that area covered the maps would be good for 1942 and into 1943 as well. The North-South axis is important too, the encirclement pincers were a long way (too far) apart. Looking at the old IL2 1946 "Moscow" map, it only covered about about 25% of the relevant area leaving out the southern pincer altogether: and, IIRC, IL2 1946 maps were 1/2 scale, ie compressed into 1/4 the area of a 1/1 map. So a map encompassing the whole operational area would be massive. Be interesting to see what they decide to do. I am hoping for the biggest possible map (I love maps ) , I might even have to buy BuMs just for that if they go for it!
Wellness Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) I just have the fear, that there is only a winter map again Edited February 17, 2015 by VSG1_Matze
Yakdriver Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 but NOOOO.dont you read the announcements..."winter only" is dead.the team is even sicker than us of the neverending snow. dispel your fears by reading the available info...
Finkeren Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I just have the fear, that there is only a winter map again There's not. It's been stated repeatedly that there will be both summer, autumn and winter versions of the map.
Freycinet Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Indeed it's a shame and a sad indictment of the state of the game when I've clocked a tenth of the hours spent in-game, posting in the forum. Sad indeed! - But happily we have BRAVE people who will take up the SWORD and fight for the downtrodden masses!! Three cheers for you, good Knight, for defending ALL of us from the pernicious and evil schemes of the developers!!!
Blooddawn1942 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Another great thing regarding the development of BoM is, that we may watch it unfold by reading the regular fridays developer diarys and getting one after another aircraft during the early access. Those were very exciting times, when I think of the early access phase of BoS. I guess, from now on we will await every friday eagerly. 1
Finkeren Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Another great thing regarding the development of BoM is, that we may watch it unfold by reading the regular fridays developer diarys and getting one after another aircraft during the early access. Those were very exciting times, when I think of the early access phase of BoS. I guess, from now on we will await every friday eagerly. +1000 I so look forward to that
Bearcat Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Yes I already have the main game and would begrudge paying for the game engine again. Hopefully BOM as a DLC for those who have bought should be cheaper than BOS. A fair price for say the maps and the new aircraft would be fine by me. Again I may be stating the obvious here. I wouldn't begrudge it... and I would pay it.. I would just hope that it might be a little cheaper for those who already have BoS but if it isn't I am still all in with both feet... 1
SYN_Mike77 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 One possibility: They have already said they will do 3 maps, summer, fall and winter. Perhaps those maps will cover different areas? They weren't fighting anywhere near Moscow in the summer of '41 after all. It would be great if these maps covered different, but perhaps overlapping areas!
Juri_JS Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I am also curious which phases of the battle BoM will cover. It seems there are differening opinions which operations are part of the battle of Moscow. As far as I know Russian historians see the battles of Vyazma and Bryansk as part of the battle of Moscow, while many western historians regard these as separate operations. If Vyazma and Bryansk are part of BoM the summer/autumn maps indeed make sense.
Emgy Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I wouldn't begrudge it... and I would pay it.. I would just hope that it might be a little cheaper for those who already have BoS but if it isn't I am still all in with both feet... I think it would be a good idea, to entice those (many) players who aren't completely enthusiastic about buying a full-price BoM.
Jarhead1 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I wouldn't begrudge it... and I would pay it.. I would just hope that it might be a little cheaper for those who already have BoS but if it isn't I am still all in with both feet... As an INTEGRATED add-on, BOM should be a fraction of the cost of the main game, i.e., BOS. As a stand-alone, BOM I expect would approximate the cost of BOS. Anything else, I'm not in with one toe let alone both feet.
Finkeren Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Well, since we know BoM will be stand-alone (though with the posibility to merge with BoS) the case should be clear. I'm going through my budget right now trying to locate the 90$ to cough up come March, and I'll be glad to do so.
Jarhead1 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Well, since we know BoM will be stand-alone (though with the posibility to merge with BoS) the case should be clear. I'm going through my budget right now trying to locate the 90$ to cough up come March, and I'll be glad to do so. Confused. Per Zak: "BOM will be similar to Pacific fighters game released long time ago - BOS and BOM are going to be fully compatible, but you'll be able to buy BOM separately from BOS as well." That tells me that BOM will integrate with BOS. Maps, planes, missions, etc., will be selectable. Also, BOM will install as a stand-alone game. The former I'll consider buying, the latter I will not. Good luck with your budget.
=RvE=Windmills Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Yes that seems like a reasonable price to me too. We will see by the time BOM is ready opinions of this Game may have changed. I will still buy BOM when its ready even on strength of what we have now. I am forever the optimist, we will see what comes in next update. Frankly, I'd expect the price to be within 10% or so of the original. All of the staff will still be working, sounds like the staff may have actually increased slightly, all of the current features will still be getting tweaked, and new content is being added. Money will probably have to be payed forward to investors still, as well. $59/89 seems reasonable and I'm willing to pay the original price if that is what is required to get the next one Full price for an essential, but still pure content upgrade? Edited February 17, 2015 by iLOVEwindmills
Jason_Williams Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Our pricing model is about content i.e. the planes, maps etc. not which title came first. Further development costs the same as the original product. We have long established that fact with our ROF product line. Any discounts will probably be based on when you buy the next product like we did with BOS. The sooner you do the bigger the discount. Jason 2
LonnyEnds Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 When you have both what will you start to ask for? Just curios. Pipedream I'm sure but eventual full graphics controls (with disclaimer stating no official support well be given) and some sort of VR support. The former being incredibly easy to implement, the latter expected to come in 2016+. I am for the most part a forum lurker and this community is obviously very passionate in their opinions (we are those oddballs known as simmers after all) I feel that if both the devs and community give each other a bit more credit and courtesy nearly everyone will have the experience they want/expect by the end of 2015. To me the graphical presets are even more odd than a certain other highly contentious issue I'm not even going to acknowledge here. It is clear that there are highly knowledgeable members that will work hours on end to improve the overall experience. Skins? Veteran missions without a FMB? There is no reason we cannot handle adjusting graphics settings without dev support. (How many useable config.ini tweaks were discovered without any support from Oleg and the boys) LETS WORK TOGETHER to give everyone the experience they would like. Simple solution the eliminating gfx presets is having disclaimer and have no dev wasted time on these forums solving any issues people might have. The community will help each other and if that still doesn't work on someone's setup there is a solution already available, tell the person to go back to running presets. Zero risk to devs or users just my 2¢ 1
Finkeren Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Confused. Per Zak: "BOM will be similar to Pacific fighters game released long time ago - BOS and BOM are going to be fully compatible, but you'll be able to buy BOM separately from BOS as well." That tells me that BOM will integrate with BOS. Maps, planes, missions, etc., will be selectable. Also, BOM will install as a stand-alone game. The former I'll consider buying, the latter I will not. Good luck with your budget. It is gonna be like Pacific Fighters yes. It's stand alone in the sense, that opening BoS is not required to play BoM.
=RvE=Windmills Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Our pricing model is about content i.e. the planes, maps etc. not which title came first. Further development costs the same as the original product. We have long established that fact with our ROF product line. Any discounts will probably be based on when you buy the next product like we did with BOS. The sooner you do the bigger the discount. Jason So I take it that means 90 buckaroos for avoiding the unlockables again
SYN_Mike77 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 As I said in another thread, Pacific fighters wasn't cheaper for people who owned IL2, why would we expect this game to be cheaper. $90 is just about what I paid for my first flight sim (Red Baron - the original on 3 floppy discs!) So that sounds about right.
Jason_Williams Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Locked due to personal attacks. Jason
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