About Battle of Moscow

[Trooper117]

Thanks for the clarification

[IRRE_Belmont]

You missed nothing. No price has been annouced.

 

Belmont is guessing and presenting his guesses as facts.... kind of usual sport on forums...

Considering the expension will have the same amount of content as BoS (or even more), i think it is safe to assume it's gonna be priced the same way, but again, those are guesses

[Bearcat]

Hopefully there will be a different price for those who already own BoS as well.. but it is so far off...  I am looking forward to the updates to BoS whenever they are done..

[Yakdriver]

well it wont have the skinning option...
i would say a lot of the ground work needed for BoS does not need to be repeated, which tells me its gonna be logically cheaper - or if the price is the same, allows for bigger expansions/ more coding behind the lines.

[Finkeren]

Even though a lot more work has gone into creating the sim itself to make BoS than will be required to produce the content to make BoM, I really don't mind paying the full 90$ for Premium for BoM, if that extra revenue goes to improving the sim overall thus benefitting both BoM and BoS.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Finkeren

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I would pay all over again for the planeset that is being offered in BoM.

 

I just really hope that the engine/gameplay level stuff is being worked on in addition to new content.

-snip- I really don't mind paying the full 90$ for Premium for BoM, if that extra revenue goes to improving the sim overall thus benefitting both BoM and BoS.

 

+1

[Bearcat]

well it wont have the skinning option...

i would say a lot of the ground work needed for BoS does not need to be repeated, which tells me its gonna be logically cheaper - or if the price is the same, allows for bigger expansions/ more coding behind the lines.

 

I don't understand.. Why wouldn't it have the skinning option.. or am I misunderstanding something about your post?

[SYN_Mike77]

When it first hit the shelves (remember when computer games hit shelves?) was IL2 Pacific Battles cheaper for owners of Il2?  I highly doubt it.  Why would we expect it to be cheaper in the download age?  Don't get me wrong, I hope owners of BoS get a discount too!  In fact I hope they just email me a key for free because of my overall awesomeness.  I doubt any of that will happen though and I can't think that I would have any reason to be angry at the devs when it doesn't.

[steppenwolf]

Even though a lot more work has gone into creating the sim itself to make BoS than will be required to produce the content to make BoM, I really don't mind paying the full 90$ for Premium for BoM, if that extra revenue goes to improving the sim overall thus benefitting both BoM and BoS.

I don't mind either. But hearing things like the DM is final and seeing that the focus seems to be mostly on AC and maps, it just feels like they're swapping out things in RoF with no intention of pushing new concepts or ideas. I'm still waiting for camo netting to flutter about when my plane rolls by. But sadly, ideas like that seem to be considered 'wastes of resources' in the community and they make people angry. I love the feeling of flight, but there has to be more content than AC and maps. It's like I'm just re-buying RoF.   

[LizLemon]

When it first hit the shelves (remember when computer games hit shelves?) was IL2 Pacific Battles cheaper for owners of Il2? I highly doubt it. Why would we expect it to be cheaper in the download age? Don't get me wrong, I hope owners of BoS get a discount too! In fact I hope they just email me a key for free because of my overall awesomeness. I doubt any of that will happen though and I can't think that I would have any reason to be angry at the devs when it doesn't.

The expectation that it should be cheaper for owners of bos is that much of the new content, such as the 109 and pe-2, are slightly different variants of the planes we have already paid for.

 

To use rof as an example; I never bought the N.17 gbr or rus variants. Yet I have them because I owned the N.17 before those variants were offered as payware.

 

There are 8 planes in the standard edition of bos. Three of those are minor variants of aircraft I have already bought.

 

Why should I be asked to pay the same when almost half the aircraft I am getting are nearly the same as in bos?

[Trooper117]

Expect to pay the full price again.

[IRRE_Belmont]

Expect to pay the full price again.

No details were given about the price, so i guess we'll see in time.

 

Anyway, if BoM is good, i'm sure the price won't bother anyone

[Yakdriver]

I don't understand.. Why wouldn't it have the skinning option.. or am I misunderstanding something about your post?

my bad... should've said "the skinning program does not need to be redone again"

 

as in: the new planes will be skinnable from day 1, cause the skin viewer already exists

[CheeseGromit]

You are forgetting a little detail. The release notes were published at release, October 2014, they were advertising this game since November 2012 and they took our money starting July 2013. Back then they were presenting a different game to us.

 

Thank you, that's exactly the point I was going to make.

 

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with a project changing it's goals and feature list over time but it does help to explain why some of us are a lot more cautious and cynical. For me it's as simple as one word being missing from the current feature list that was on previously and gets mentioned in the dev diaries. I accept responsibility though, I made the decision to pre-order.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Remember folks... they said they have details to announce in the future. We don't know what they are. There's a ton of leaping to conclusions going on when we really don't know.

 

We know the planes, we know the theater, we know the core technologies are basically the same (IMHO a great thing) so the FMB, Dserver, and so forth will be day one for BoM. We don't know the price, new features, improved features, tweaked settings, or anything like that.

[=CFC=Conky]

Hello all,

 

I bought the Premium version of this sim. A hundred bucks. No pricing on BoM yet, but just for the sake of argument, let's say the full monty on that is another hundred. Two hundred bucks is not an inconsequential amount of money for a lot of people, myself included. 

 

Now on the other hand, let's have a peek at what's with a little game called Star Citizen. Folks are dropping up to $275USD on one ship, more for some of the specialty ones, and the game isn't anywhere near finished yet. Then there are all the weapons, missiles and sundry doodads you can buy. 

 

They've raised north of $72,000,000USD. On a game that's over a year from release....

 

So what's my point? Simply that while we have spent money on BoS, and it hasn't lived up to the expectations of many, when you look at the big picture, the $$$ we spent is pretty tiny. The time we spend playing is priceless of course, but overall it's still not quite as bad as going to, say,  the dentist...

 

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky

Edited February 14, 2015 by CFC_Conky

[wtornado]

You are forgetting a little detail. The release notes were published at release, October 2014, they were advertising this game since November 2012 and they took our money starting July 2013. Back then they were presenting a different game to us.

I see you joined two months ago. You missed most of that, so I understand your point, but you don't have all the facts.

 

 

?? What was presented differently from what is written in these notes?

 

 

Thank you, that's exactly the point I was going to make.

 

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with a project changing it's goals and feature list over time but it does help to explain why some of us are a lot more cautious and cynical. For me it's as simple as one word being missing from the current feature list that was on previously and gets mentioned in the dev diaries. I accept responsibility though, I made the decision to pre-order.

I had posted this somewhere else for Mr Jaws to see because this thread disappeared it was intended for here.

Well Mr Jaws is right I had an old memory flash and went to

 

The SimHQ site it is a good place where I look at combat games.

 

I wanted a FMB and Cliffs of Dover did not deliver but!!!!

 

There was a glimmer of hope in this review that stayed in my heart. 

 

This review I have here was dated July 29 2013.

 

http://www.simhq.com/air-combat/il2-sturmovik-battle-stalingrad-preview.html

 

 

This is a quote from the article:

 

''One <sigh> I had was that the mission editor in Battle of Stalingrad will

basically be the Rise of Flight editor, just updated as needed for the new planes and missions.

While the dev team acknowledges that the editor can be a bit cumbersome to the uninitiated, it

is the same tool that the devs use to create all their missions – it is fully functional and very powerful, 

once you get the hang of it. The team expressed a desire to put some effort into making the editor more

accessible, but noted that their first priority will be Battle of Stalingrad’s gameplay. I’m hoping some

skilled and enterprising folks out there can not only make some immersive and well-designed missions, but

also take their time to create more tutorial guides and references for those of us that could use a little extra help''

[wtornado]

I know there are a lot of new pilots here.

 

They cannot know that the IL-2 series was and is still being played

for well over a decade.

 

It is thanks to the FMB ,Dservers, co-op capability that the game survived.

 

Just look at what happened to Cliffs of Dover and lets analyze that game and

see how far it got client wise without a FMB and Dserver  no co-op capability?

[SKG51_robtek]

I know there are a lot of new pilots here.

 

They cannot know that the IL-2 series was and is still being played

for well over a decade.

 

It is thanks to the FMB ,Dservers, co-op capability that the game survived.

 

Just look at what happened to Cliffs of Dover and lets analyze that game and

see how far it got client wise without a FMB and Dserver  no co-op capability?

Excuse me, but CloD had the FMB from the beginning, how do you think all the user made Mission on the open Servers were created?

And the Coop capability is present in CloD, just a bit different as in 1946.

[IRRE_Belmont]

Hello all,

 

I bought the Premium version of this sim. A hundred bucks. No pricing on BoM yet, but just for the sake of argument, let's say the full monty on that is another hundred. Two hundred bucks is not an inconsequential amount of money for a lot of people, myself included. 

 

Now on the other hand, let's have a peek at what's with a little game called Star Citizen. Folks are dropping up to $275USD on one ship, more for some of the specialty ones, and the game isn't anywhere near finished yet. Then there are all the weapons, missiles and sundry doodads you can buy. 

 

They've raised north of $72,000,000USD. On a game that's over a year from release....

 

So what's my point? Simply that while we have spent money on BoS, and it hasn't lived up to the expectations of many, when you look at the big picture, the $$$ we spent is pretty tiny. The time we spend playing is priceless of course, but overall it's still not quite as bad as going to, say,  the dentist...

 

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky

Tiny? No, it's really expensive 

BUT

Simulation in general is expensive, most of the players know it, and are ready to pay for it

 

[wtornado]

Excuse me, but CloD had the FMB from the beginning, how do you think all the user made Mission on the open Servers were created?

And the Coop capability is present in CloD, just a bit different as in 1946.

True a FMB that did not go well.

 

It was different alright .

 

Lets see where ''different'' will bring this game?

[Sokol1]

And the Coop capability is present in CloD, just a bit different as in 1946.

 

As was in ROF - that statistically is little used, so with the developers of a new game will bother in include this feature?

[LizLemon]

True a FMB that did not go well.

 

It was different alright .

 

Lets see where ''different'' will bring this game?

Huh?

 

The fmb in clod is pretty similar to how the one in 46 works

[kendo]

I have probably clocked a grand total of around ten hours of flight time in BoS because I'm still waiting for the things that make a flight sim playable and enjoyable, and in the meantime, whilst I'm still waiting I'm being invited to think about spending more money on more planes and maps I can't enjoy flying in or on!

 

 

I'll get as excited as everyone else when I can actually load up the game, start a career, expect my wingmen to actually behave sensibly instead of spazzing into me, one another or the ground and then I'll swoon over new maps and planes.

 

All this waiting for the game to become playable was already getting tiresome, now it's a bit insulting that new maps and planes have been announced before a solid plan to improve the actual gameplay.

 

This was meant to be a single-player focused game, remember?

 

I'm partly with you here in that I totally agree about the really disappointing single player and AI experience. Both need to be drastically improved. For me BOS has been a combination of delight at some sublimely wonderful elements, patience-testing frustration at incomplete or poorly implemented features, and incredulous disbelief verging at times into anger at some appallingly bad decisions - most of which are to do with unlocks.

 

I'm not playing BOS much myself. I'm still experimenting and having fun with some single-plane flights in the QMB, but when even a multi-plane ground attack mission can't be set up (the AI goes for the compulsory single enemy aircraft - allow us to set number of EA to zero devs!) it turns into frustration. The campaign has been a disappointment for me right from the start. Hate the gamey elements in the execution - hate the pilot levels, hate the unlocks. 

 

But i'm pleased about the announcement of the follow up. I've had my own patience tested with this sim and I've felt big disappointment at how some things turned out after the high hopes at the beginning of the EA period. But I see that the devs have made and continue to make changes and improvements, and from Jason's comments it is clear that they do want to give the the single player who craves historical accuracy and an immersive experience something worthwhile in the end. I do cut them some slack at thge delays in FMB etc because in the end there are limited resources available. 

 

When all the elements are finally in place I can see that this sim will be capable of generating some great experiences. At the moment though it is largely a case of hanging in and being patient.

[1./ZG1_ElHadji]

Uh?

Sorry, not really getting you, DD_Arthur is saying exactly the same as I do.....

Do you mean you're happy having been wrong?

Yes that is exactly what I mean!

[Bearcat]

When it first hit the shelves (remember when computer games hit shelves?) was IL2 Pacific Battles cheaper for owners of Il2?  I highly doubt it.  Why would we expect it to be cheaper in the download age?  Don't get me wrong, I hope owners of BoS get a discount too!  In fact I hope they just email me a key for free because of my overall awesomeness.  I doubt any of that will happen though and I can't think that I would have any reason to be angry at the devs when it doesn't.

 

True... it is a no brainer for me either way.. I am just thinking marketing. IIRC PF was $40 I think.. IL2 was $49.99, FB was $49.99 the AEP was $49.99.. and PF was $39.99 but that was all with a physical disk... I would think that with a download pricing could be more flexible.. even of for a limited time.. but as I said.. either way I am in.

 

I don't mind either. But hearing things like the DM is final and seeing that the focus seems to be mostly on AC and maps, it just feels like they're swapping out things in RoF with no intention of pushing new concepts or ideas. I'm still waiting for camo netting to flutter about when my plane rolls by. But sadly, ideas like that seem to be considered 'wastes of resources' in the community and they make people angry. I love the feeling of flight, but there has to be more content than AC and maps. It's like I'm just re-buying RoF.   

 

But you know that these things are always a work in progress.. The thing that gets me is that folks are trying to hold this team to every jot and tittle.. and that is just not the way to go IMO considering that stuff happens. 

 

Expect to pay the full price again.

 

I do.... and it would be for basically another BoS only on a different map... if I don't have to do that I will be pleasantly surprised.. but I am in regardless.

 

my bad... should've said "the skinning program does not need to be redone again"

 

as in: the new planes will be skinnable from day 1, cause the skin viewer already exists

 

Gotcha!

 

 

I had posted this somewhere else for Mr Jaws to see because this thread disappeared it was intended for here.

Well Mr Jaws is right I had an old memory flash and went to

 

The SimHQ site it is a good place where I look at combat games.

 

I wanted a FMB and Cliffs of Dover did not deliver but!!!!

 

There was a glimmer of hope in this review that stayed in my heart. 

 

This review I have here was dated July 29 2013.

 

http://www.simhq.com/air-combat/il2-sturmovik-battle-stalingrad-preview.html

 

 

This is a quote from the article:

 

''One <sigh> I had was that the mission editor in Battle of Stalingrad will

basically be the Rise of Flight editor, just updated as needed for the new planes and missions.

While the dev team acknowledges that the editor can be a bit cumbersome to the uninitiated, it

is the same tool that the devs use to create all their missions – it is fully functional and very powerful, 

once you get the hang of it. The team expressed a desire to put some effort into making the editor more

accessible, but noted that their first priority will be Battle of Stalingrad’s gameplay. I’m hoping some

skilled and enterprising folks out there can not only make some immersive and well-designed missions, but

also take their time to create more tutorial guides and references for those of us that could use a little extra help''

 

 

We still have no knowledge whatsoever of what the final ME/DS will be like... They said what was quoted above.. true.. but as I understand it and have come to trust this team.. this is all a work in progress.. Some things may change along the way.. sometimes for the better some times not.. but the take away .. for me at least.. and one I think that all of us should be mindful of is.. at the end of the day ...

 

These folks want to make a good sim.. that is a fact.

 

.. and it seems to me that some seem to think that that is not the case. Some seem to think or insinuate that all this is is about a money grab and a quick buck.. and that is just IMO wrong. Look these guys have to eat.. they have bills to pay... I am certain that they take pride in their work.. Don't you? Don't all of you? I know I do.

 

It may not have everything that we would want at the time we get it.. and some stuff may never come .. a classic case is the graphics presets.. but know that the core issues are being addressed.. even if we do not see it yet.. We do not have custom graphics settings.. but that does not mean that the team is not working on the graphics implementation of the sim so that the presets will be sufficient.

 

It almost seems like too many folks are sitting at the table just waiting for a misstep ... when I am saying to myself.. "These guys have been putting their sweat, time and fortunes into this .. so regardless to what it is now.. since I know that it is a work in progress rather than acting as if they were saying "That's it we are done.. here ya go!" I will choose to think as if it was me.. and act accordingly.

 

I dropped almost as much as I spent for the BoS EA on DCS WWII .. and so far all I got for it was two planes.. and that was not the plan.. I am waiting for my Spit and my Jug.. but I am not going to sit by the DCS door everyday and go.... "So yo man..... wheres my P-47? Where's my Spit? You told me I was going to get a Spit man... I want my Spit... I want my Jug man... Where are my planes man...? LIAAARR!  "

 

Somewhat different scenarios for sure but I am not worried about DCS and I am certainly not worried about this title... For me the fact that BoM is announced does not illicit a "Well why don't you finish this one first dadgummit!! " but more of a ... "Oooookay.. so that means that they see far enough ahead to expand this title.." which to me is a good thing.

 

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. So why get bent at mile 100 when you know there are 900 left..

[Rama]

 

''One <sigh> I had was that the mission editor in Battle of Stalingrad will

basically be the Rise of Flight editor, just updated as needed for the new planes and missions.

 

the FMB ,Dservers, co-op capability

 

And the FMB, DServer will be available long before BoM

... and designers will be able to create coop-like scenarios, as some are allready doing.

 

 

[Bearcat]

And the FMB, DServer will be available long before BoM

... and designers will be able to create coop-like scenarios, as some are allready doing.

 

... long before.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Your post did not sound snarky, Bearcat. It's absolutely true that the days of free DLC are over and I agree with you.

 

Still, it's a darn shame that it's Friday night and this is what I see when booting up the game.

 

Per Von Crapenhauser (sp?):

Time zones ?

 

I saw here in UK at 1300 hrs nearly 60 players online on various servers.

But TBH only 3 on DED US servers.

 

This morning (Saturday) at approximately 0730 Pacific there were steadilly between 140-150 players online. This was mostly between four servers. To be fair, using a Friday or Saturday night as a yardstick seems a little flawed. Lots to do socially other than go flying.

 

The US servers are, in fact, mostly barren. Even at US primetime hours as has been indicated. I suspect this has a bit (or more) to do with the current planeset and theater. I am hoping this is remedied with the third Il2 installment - MTO anyone? The DServer and FMB may help. I doubt the numbers will increase much on these shores for BOM. On the other hand I am fortunate to have a couple of weekdays off and find pretty good (European) numbers on those days until, you guessed it, about 1600 PT. When the European numbers knock off and are not backfilled by Yanks. We are there, however, just not in strength.

 

Plenty of English speakers and friendly players as well. It is what it is until there is an American or British presence in the planeset. Maybe the P-40 will help a bit but I doubt it.

Edited February 14, 2015 by HerrMurf

[oneeyeddog]

  There was a time several months back when the US servers were fairly popular and Im very optimistic they will be again.

[LukeFF]

[Edited]

 

[Edited]

 

I totally missed the quoted post.. but I am editing the response as well.. no offense.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Bearcat

[Feathered_IV]

When it first hit the shelves (remember when computer games hit shelves?) was IL2 Pacific Battles cheaper for owners of Il2?  I highly doubt it.  Why would we expect it to be cheaper in the download age?  Don't get me wrong, I hope owners of BoS get a discount too!  In fact I hope they just email me a key for free because of my overall awesomeness.  I doubt any of that will happen though and I can't think that I would have any reason to be angry at the devs when it doesn't.

It's worth noting how little games have increased in price over the last twenty years. Even though a developers overheads have doubled, even tripled in that time. Add to that the huge leap in complexity and its a wonder any small game developers can make a living at all.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

[Edited]

 

I totally missed the quoted post.. but I am editing the response as well.. no offense.

 

You too.

[LukeFF]

You too.

 

You may not have a problem with being associated with being a political hack, but I and others do. 

 

Carry on. 

[Jaws2002]

  There was a time several months back when the US servers were fairly popular and Im very optimistic they will be again.

 

 

AbortedMan  had a good thing going, with Eagle's Nest server and a lot of North American players joined  every evening. When the developers closed it down, the multiplayer became a ghost town during the usual North American evenings.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Jaws2002

[wtornado]

 

 

 

 

And the FMB, DServer will be available long before BoM

... and designers will be able to create coop-like scenarios, as some are allready doing.

 

 

 

 

 

... long before.

Now that is what I wanted to hear.

 

it is almost like pulling teeth to get it

[=CFC=Conky]

 

Tiny? No, it's really expensive 

BUT

Simulation in general is expensive, most of the players know it, and are ready to pay for it

 

 

 

Two hundred bucks is a lot of money, no arguments there. I also put it in the context of what some other games are bringing in. Still, with the cost of the hardware required to play, the BoS/BoM software is the cheapest part of the experience  .

[SKG51_robtek]

Now that is what I wanted to hear.

 

it is almost like pulling teeth to get it

Remember its from a Mod, not the devs!

 

With the ME/"FMB" we will see where the frog has its locks.

[=RvE=Windmills]

I do.... and it would be for basically another BoS only on a different map... if I don't have to do that I will be pleasantly surprised.. but I am in regardless.

 

 

At this point it's only content though, maps and aircraft. Not saying that those are trivial, but undoubtedly the engine was a major part of the investment for BoS. Adding new technical capabilities to it and modifying it for everything the WW2 scenario required.

 

All that work doesn't have to be repeated, so technically it is actually possible that it is priced like an expansion. ie 30/40 Dollars. Now I'm not crossing my fingers for this just yet, but it's not unreasonable to expect it to be cheaper than BoS was. 

 

Especially since they apparently now think it's a good idea to force premium in order to dodge the SP grinding

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Your post did not sound snarky, Bearcat. It's absolutely true that the days of free DLC are over and I agree with you.

 

Still, it's a darn shame that it's Friday night and this is what I see when booting up the game.

 

It is carnival    No one is going to play nothing heheheh