Y-29.Silky Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 There's basically 10 new aircraft and a new map coming, half of the new aircraft were highly wanted by the community, plus this is coming AFTER the FMB is being released.. and people still snarl.
IRRE_Belmont Posted February 13, 2015 Author Posted February 13, 2015 There's basically 10 new aircraft and a new map coming, half of the new aircraft were highly wanted by the community, plus this is coming AFTER the FMB is being released.. and people still snarl. There's basically a whole new 60-90 euros game comming, I, and people have the right to ask about the future of BoS. There's nothing wrong there, as long as it remains polite and civil
DD_Arthur Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 There's basically a whole new 60-90 euros game comming, I, and people have the right to ask about the future of BoS. Quite right. I see today's announcement as very reassuring. The core of the game will keep being updated - for free - and we'll be getting a mergeable new/game expansion, call it what you will. 60-90 euros? Good, it'll give my 400 euro graphic card something to workout on.
Bearcat Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 When you have both what will you start to ask for? Just curios. I was wondering the same thing... OK I can't disagree that the game has potential. But how many times are people expected to pay out before that potential is realised? I can admire potential as much as the next man but i can't play potential. There is no reason for me to play the game at present. The campaign is so dull and the AI is, can I say "glitchy" without being lynched? What is there for an offliner to spend any time doing at present? Tooling around in the QMB is fun for brief spells but it's not enough to hold my attention for long. All this is especially disheartening to me since we were led to believe that BOS would be single-player focussed. OK, so I wait for the FMB, and then for someone to create a campaign worth flying... BOM sounds fine and all, but buying a few more planes and maps won't change the fact that, for me, the actual gameplay is boring. Sadly. It seems to me that many seem to be missing the point .. that BoM is the next phase of BoS... BoS.. BoM... it is all the next generation IL2... and where was IL2 in March of 02? Granted it had a FMB and Dserver by then .. IIRC... but this doesn't .. yet... None of this people you are talking about here ever asked for the grind/unlocks. So, if you are trying to make a game for this people why not remove them all together. That issue has been addressed in a big way.. not to everyone's satisfaction.. but it has been addressed in reasonable way.. so... Will someone make Jaws a IAR-80 for gods sake. Something..... How about occulus surrport? Or will we need to find a programmer for you to hire in order to get that one? Occulus support is moot at this point.. and .. Loft just told me that we can offer you guys a deal: you find us a good programmer and we consider such engine upgrade. .... so if someone wants to take that on... For me, to buy a flight sim, flying game, it doesn't have to be perfect. I used to just buy everything related to flying just to support the genre. It didn't matter if I spent thousands of hours in it, like Il-2, ROF, or I flew them two three afternoons and then moved on. I'm easy as customer: Keep your word and I'll give you my money, time after time, just to support the genre. Play marketing tricks and try too fool me around, say one thing, then do another, clamp down on anyone asking questions in the forum, I'll find other things to spend my money on. So to aswer your question, "what I'd want after you release those two": Honesty. That's it. OK .... now that is just uncalled for Jaws... really man. Look if you are not happy with the recent developments you are free to voice that but the stuff I highlighted in red is just totally uncalled for at this juncture. There's basically 10 new aircraft and a new map coming, half of the new aircraft were highly wanted by the community, plus this is coming AFTER the FMB is being released.. and people still snarl. It is mind boggling to me... You would think that this team said they were dropping support for BoS all together .. and making another totally independent sim... This is an ADD ON. It is still the same sim. I think the move is brilliant.. There's basically a whole new 60-90 euros game comming, I, and people have the right to ask about the future of BoS. There's nothing wrong there, as long as it remains polite and civil Indeed.... as long as that is the case this thread will remain open. 1
GOAT-ACEOFACES Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 It seems to me that many seem to be missing the point .. that BoM is the next phase of BoS... BoS.. BoM... it is all the next generation IL2...Bingo! One can only assume those who say this, are too young to remember all the phases of IL2.
Noruas Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 When you have both what will you start to ask for? Just curios. Battle over Moscow. But at least we would have what we were told we would get months ago, what may be the lifeblood of this game and the glue that holds the community together.
dburne Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 BoS.. BoM... it is all the next generation IL2... and where was IL2 in March of 02? Granted it had a FMB and Dserver by then .. IIRC... but this doesn't .. yet... Bingo! One can only assume those who say this, are too young to remember all the phases of IL2. Actually, it would be considered more of a " new generation", rather than a "next generation". Next generation would imply it had all that the previous generation had, plus more and better. Imho, this was more like some kind of hopeful "rebirth" of the IL-2 franchise, using a different developer. Very glad to see a new product announced, I hope it bodes very well for the title, and so hope for eventually a really good SP system with more of a historical campaign and progression - whether that comes from within or the community via this new FME that is forthcoming.
widgeon Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 If I imagine myself as a developer, reading theses forums, I find myself figuratively banging my head against the wall. Little in life is perfect, except for evanescent moments to savor. Why so much angst, when all info seems to point to better things to come? (rhetorical)
6./ZG26_McKvack Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I think this is better way and giving them money will just add more to the game(let me buy tante ju plz) And Zak/Jason already stated another update coming soon.
Sokol1 Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Jaws2002, on 13 Feb 2015 - 18:11, said: The FMB (promised in the first announcement is still missing, Ded server, still missing. When you have both what will you start to ask for? Just curios. I bet this: "stats/results" for QMB sorties".
Zak Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Coop mode please Zak I'd like a bit of that too btw 7
Feathered_IV Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 When you have both what will you start to ask for? Just curios. Honestly, if you bought them all a lap dance they would still complain and say they could do it better.
Flack88 Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Honestly, if you bought them all a lap dance they would still complain and say they could do it better. Hooker instead?
DD_Arthur Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 .evanescent moments to savor. "evanescent moments to savour" love it
CheeseGromit Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Whilst it's premature to make judgements based on limited info I do tend to agree with the OP on a couple of points. BoS doesn't feel close to being a complete, finished product. Obviously this is subjective but from my perspective, for the asking price it's very short on content. Also subjective, content in this case would be more things to do with the planes I have. We have a QMB and a fairly basic campaign that revolves heavily around QMB. I wouldn't expect something with the scope of BoM to be a free add-on but I was also hoping for more free support in terms of content for BoS and little has been announced in this regard. Perhaps BoS is effectively considered feature complete at this point and everything else is up to the community. Perhaps these 'modules' will link together to create something greater than the sum of the parts. There's a lot on unanswered questions at this early stage and we'll see what the future holds in terms of pricing and how the products link together. First impression though is that BoM is just another BoS and whilst I've had fun with BoS, see earlier comments about it feeling incomplete.
-TBC-AeroAce Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I like the idea, the new planes and features... but, is that all we are going to see on BoS ? I'm sorry to say, but i expected a little bit more from the devs on this one... when i bought the game for 60 euros (wich was my mounthly wage at the time), i thought updates would continue for it for many years and for free. Perhaps i'm sounding a little bit harsh, but from my point of view, BOS is not even close to be finished, adding 2 new maps (textures of the Stalingrad map in reality) and a bunch of fixes is definitly not what i expected. What are your guys thoughts on this ? Just out of interest where is 60 euro a monthly wage? EDIT Ok urs sorry to be rude Edited February 13, 2015 by AeroAce
-NW-ChiefRedCloud Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 you want them to work for free. for many years. because you paid 60 euros once. i would gather that your 60 euros will make a man eat one month in russia. and you want to give one month of food for 10 years of work a la Il-2FB/AEP/PF/1946? i can not post what i think right now. I mean i could, but... "but it worked for oleg???" this is 2015, Oleg is gone. I agree, BoS is not finished. I miss the promised tools if thy do not finish what they started, and what i paid for BEFORE putting a new product on the shelf, i guess my reaction will be along the lines of "thumbs down" I agree ... thank you Chief
Feathered_IV Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Just out of interest where is 60 euro a monthly wage? I think that might be how much he receives in pocket money.
Uriah Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I will buy it as soon as it is available. I have faith that this will just get better and better. It may take three years before I get nearly all the things I want. But I am confident I will get it. And cost? Really? I spend gobs more on my PC and I can go to the cinema five times and spend more money for less entertainment. 1
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 you want them to work for free. for many years. because you paid 60 euros once. i would gather that your 60 euros will make a man eat one month in russia. and you want to give one month of food for 10 years of work a la Il-2FB/AEP/PF/1946? i can not post what i think right now. I mean i could, but... "but it worked for oleg???" this is 2015, Oleg is gone. I agree, BoS is not finished. I miss the promised tools if thy do not finish what they started, and what i paid for BEFORE putting a new product on the shelf, i guess my reaction will be along the lines of "thumbs down" Way to misrepresent what the OP stated, tovarisch. No where did the OP even suggest they should work for free. At all. What the OP voiced was concern for the future of BoS. A game that he paid for and he'd like put into a decent position. It's no question that a game that's only a few months out of the gate is going to be anemic on content, but when they announce the next installment before there's even a functioning FMB? This is going to raise a few eyebrows. It's too early to make proper judgements, but it's going to be unsettling to some.
SeriousFox Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) Guys chill out. The Year 2014 and 2015 is the year of DLC and Pre-Order(including Early Access). and every single publishers and developers seems to like that phenomenon in gaming industry.... The fact is, that will kill gaming industry sooner or later, I mean really. You see how many AAA and Early Access games has failed last year? It just makes me sick. They just want to sell their unfinished game to us and Pre-Order and DLC(especially day one DLC) is a great way to earn extra cash before people realize that the game is the same unfinished game they bought last year. Edited February 14, 2015 by SeriousFox
ShamrockOneFive Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) Lots of good points here but I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet...I think its reasonable to assume that core technologies (AI, single player campaign, tweaks to physics/FM/DM, etc.) will likely be improved for Battle for Moscow and because the two products are connected will also be improved for Battle for Stalingrad. So continued development I see as only a good thing for everyone. I'd like a bit of that too btw A coop mode for multiplayer missions or even a plug in for the campaign system would make me very happy indeed. Edited February 14, 2015 by ShamrockOneFive
Feathered_IV Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 That makes perfect sense Shamrock. I'm not sure why the others cannot comprehend this.
=RvE=Windmills Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 It really depends on how much they are planning to sell it for. Another full price game would be a bit hard to swallow tbh, especially considering you will be practiclaly forced to upgrade in order to keep playing the game online. There's no way a worthwhile community size will persist for pure BoS online.
Bearcat Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 And you talk about missing the point?!? The point is, that with poor AI and a joke of a campaign all the new planes and maps in the world don't make for an enjoyable single player experience. Is fine if all you want is a QMB and some online but there nothing for me to get my teeth into. And nothing in the BOM build either by the sounds of it. I'd pay for a decent campaign system and fixed AI long before I'd pay for more planes and maps. No Simon I am not missing the point at all.. What makes you think that those things are not forthcoming? You act as if all work on the things that are wrong with BoS.. that the devs see as well as we do.. is stopping because they are working on BoM.. I do not believe that is the case at all... Lots of good points here but I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet...I think its reasonable to assume that core technologies (AI, single player campaign, tweaks to physics/FM/DM, etc.) will likely be improved for Battle for Moscow and because the two products are connected will also be improved for Battle for Stalingrad. So continued development I see as only a good thing for everyone. A coop mode for multiplayer missions or even a plug in for the campaign system would make me very happy indeed. Give that man a ceegar.... I am not missing anything... I see this sim for what it is and what it can be.. I am beginning to think that difference between me and some others is that I have faith in this team that they can and will achieve their stated goals.. which were to bring forth a quality WWII flight sim.. and some do not.. I see potential and believe that that potential can and will be realized and others say they don't want potential they want the sim now... but that is not how this works.. It really depends on how much they are planning to sell it for. Another full price game would be a bit hard to swallow tbh, especially considering you will be practiclaly forced to upgrade in order to keep playing the game online. There's no way a worthwhile community size will persist for pure BoS online. Perspective... if they sell BoM for the same price the sold BoS for it will be a bargain.. 10 new aircraft and a new map .. or two.. for the same preorder price I paid for BoS? I'm IN. 1
Mac_Messer Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 When you have both what will you start to ask for? Just curios. Easy. More maps and aircraft.
Chuck_Owl Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) Perspective... if they sell BoM for the same price the sold BoS for it will be a bargain.. 10 new aircraft and a new map .. or two.. for the same preorder price I paid for BoS? I'm IN. Not quite 10 "new" aircraft to be honest. The Pe-2 Series 35 is similar in so many aspects to the Series 87 and 110 we have in BoS. Just as the Bf.109F-2 is similar in many aspects to the Bf.109F-4. Just as the Il-2 1941 mod is very similar to the Il-2 1942 mod we currently have. Overall the difference will be more in terms of performance and I doubt 777 is re-doing all the models from scratch. The only "new" aircraft we have are the I-16 Type 24, MiG-3, P-40E-1, Bf.109E-7 Bf.110E-2, Ju-88A-4 and MC.202 Series VIII. Edited February 14, 2015 by 71st_AH_Chuck 2
Bearcat Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Yakdriver: respectfully, we have been told several times by Jason that the funds to finish BOS were there and "in the can" before Founder gold bar early access. So, they can either admit that was a lie and apologize or they'll never get another penny from me; and we certainly don't have to listen to "cry poor" because that is directly countered by the devs own prior and vehemently forwarded statements. Look man if you don't like BoS.. or don't want to deal with BoM.. or are pissed off .. whatever.. That's cool.. but don't come here with that stuff man. You can spout that nonsense all you want across the web.. but don't do it here.. You have no basis for your assertions at all.. unless of course you have access to the books of 1CGS .. which I highly doubt. Slandering this team or insinuating unscrupulous intent will NOT be tolerated here at all. You can all it censorship or whatever you want to call it.. but don't do this here. Complain all you want.. express your dissatisfatction with BoS.. all that... but do not slander this team on this forum. This is the ONLY warning you will get. Take it however you want to. Edited my last post. I hope you don't think, I called anyone a liar here?! He wasn't talking about you... Not quite 10 "new" aircraft to be honest. The Pe-2 Series 35 is similar in so many aspects to the Series 87 and 110 we have in BoS. Just as the Bf.109F-2 is similar in many aspects to the Bf.109F-4. Just as the Il-2 1941 mod is very similar to the Il-2 1942 mod we currently have. Overall the difference will be more in terms of performance and I doubt 777 is re-doing all the models from scratch. The only "new" aircraft we have are the I-16 Type 24, MiG-3, P-40E-1, Bf.109E-7 Bf.110E-2, Ju-88A-4 and MC.202 Series VIII. OK.. 7 new planes.. and a new map.... still IMO not a bad deal.. The days of the free new content are over.. and you know that as well as I do. 3
Chuck_Owl Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) @Bearcat I did not say I expected BoM to be free. I certainly don't. But (and that's just wishful thinking) I am not sure I am ready to pay 95 $ for BoM on the sole basis that it has the same number of planes. It's as is I was saying that in Cliffs of Dover the Spitfire Mk I, Mk I (100 oct), Mk Ia, Mk Ia (100 oct), and Mk IIa counted as 5 different aircraft and could be sold at the price of 5 aircraft. Anyway, that's beside the point. I'm not looking to start an argument here. I remain cautiously optimistic. I will keep an eye open for Battle of Moscow... but as long as North American multiplayer is a barren wasteland and the FMB (yes, I know that they are working on it) is not accessible, I think I will wait to see what 777's plan is to address these issues. For me, multiplayer is the only way to play a flight sim... unless a campaign system is robust and immersive enough to keep me interested (which is not the case at the moment). Edited February 14, 2015 by 71st_AH_Chuck 3
Bearcat Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 @Bearcat I did not say I expected BoM to be free. I certainly don't. But (and that's just wishful thinking) I am not sure I am ready to pay 95 $ for BoM on the sole basis that it has the same number of planes. It's as is I was saying that in Cliffs of Dover the Spitfire Mk I, Mk I (100 oct), Mk Ia, Mk Ia (100 oct), and Mk IIa counted as 5 different aircraft and could be sold at the price of 5 aircraft. I remain cautiously optimistic. I will keep an eye open for Battle of Moscow... but as long as North American multiplayer is a barren wasteland and the FMB (yes, I know that they are working on it) is not accessible, I think I will wait to see what 777's plan is to address these issues. . For me, multiplayer is the only way to play a flight sim... unless a campaign system is robust and immersive enough to keep me interested (which is not the case at the moment). I hear ya.. and I know you are not expecting that.. sorry if my post sounded kind of snarky.. that was not my intent ... I am hoping that at the most the EA cost of BoM will be the same as it was for BoS .. which was $90.. Less would be even better especially for those who already have BoS... I think a lot of the issues many of us have remaining will be addressed sooner rather than later.. Some will still be unhappy regardless ..
Chuck_Owl Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Your post did not sound snarky, Bearcat. It's absolutely true that the days of free DLC are over and I agree with you. Still, it's a darn shame that it's Friday night and this is what I see when booting up the game.
unreasonable Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 BoM is supposed to integrate with BoS... same game, new map and planes, can be bought and installed without BoS. Zak even said you can but premium BoM planes directly to add them to your BoS IIRC . So I suppose the developement of "core" elements (shared by BoS and BoM, anything that isn't Moscow map, ten planes and SP campaign for BoM) will continue, and it will be added to BoS as well as BoM. This is my area of concern. As I understand it from Jason's posts, the SP Campaign for BoM will have the same format as BoS. Ie Chapters (good idea), unlocks (bad idea but now avoidable to a degree), player level (needs to be made reversible) and no RP/historic grounding ( :( ) 1CGS are not going to produce inhouse a DCG/PWCG type campaign or a RoF BCareer mode: Jason says he needs a 3rd party programmer to do it, and presumably a finished FMB as well. So if they get that done, the extra planes and maps start to be of more use for SP. I am happy to wait for a while and hope this gets sorted out: as someone who has bought RoF twice and BoS three times I feel under no particular obligation to "support the genre" if the genre has stopped supporting me.
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) I feel under no particular obligation to "support the genre" if the genre has stopped supporting me. I find it incredibly disingenuous they even paint it like that. It's a two way street: you need customers to buy a product sure, but you need a product that's worth a buy especially if they have the audacity to charge so much for it. @Bearcat I did not say I expected BoM to be free. I certainly don't. But (and that's just wishful thinking) I am not sure I am ready to pay 95 $ for BoM on the sole basis that it has the same number of planes. It's as is I was saying that in Cliffs of Dover the Spitfire Mk I, Mk I (100 oct), Mk Ia, Mk Ia (100 oct), and Mk IIa counted as 5 different aircraft and could be sold at the price of 5 aircraft. Anyway, that's beside the point. I'm not looking to start an argument here. I remain cautiously optimistic. I will keep an eye open for Battle of Moscow... but as long as North American multiplayer is a barren wasteland and the FMB (yes, I know that they are working on it) is not accessible, I think I will wait to see what 777's plan is to address these issues. For me, multiplayer is the only way to play a flight sim... unless a campaign system is robust and immersive enough to keep me interested (which is not the case at the moment). I want to second this, totally. The current product is fun but is not worth $59.99, let alone the full price. The current campaign is pretty terrible and the fact that they're here parading out an intended new product as a developer diary sits wrong with a lot of people and rightfully so. As a consumer, this is my experience thus far: -They've crafted a pretty fun combat sim -I like the visual fidelity -An obnoxious unlock system tied in with a drag of a campaign which displeased a large portion of the user base -At one time, an individual developer (Who most certainly doesn't represent the rest of the team) that outright denied this by stating that more people played BoS's campaign than RoF's demonstrating he's either oblivious to the idea that the only reason the majority of people were doing it was to grind out unlocks or is being willingly dishonest. -An inability to allow users to determine their own visual settings because of a hand full of very weak reasons. I did like BoS, but this experience has left me very cautious about purchases from 1CGS. Unless there's some form of discount for BoS founders or assurances that the previous mistakes will not be made, I cannot see myself placing money down for BoM, despite the really awesome line up of fighters. [Edited] [Edited] Please state your case without the political innuendo. Edited February 14, 2015 by Bearcat Unnecesarilly provocative language 4
Voidhunger Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 This is my area of concern. As I understand it from Jason's posts, the SP Campaign for BoM will have the same format as BoS. Ie Chapters (good idea), unlocks (bad idea but now avoidable to a degree), player level (needs to be made reversible) and no RP/historic grounding ( :( ) 1CGS are not going to produce inhouse a DCG/PWCG type campaign or a RoF BCareer mode: Jason says he needs a 3rd party programmer to do it, and presumably a finished FMB as well. So if they get that done, the extra planes and maps start to be of more use for SP. I am happy to wait for a while and hope this gets sorted out: as someone who has bought RoF twice and BoS three times I feel under no particular obligation to "support the genre" if the genre has stopped supporting me. I still waiting for the sp campaign in ROF style too. Until than I´m not interested in addons. Sorry the sp experience in BOS is tragic for me. 2
BraveSirRobin Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Now, cue the digital VVS to come cry to me about how "devs gotta eat too,QQ" and all sorts of other excuses. Defend your politburo, tovarisches. No one is making excuses. If you don't like the game, find something else to do with your time. 1
FlatSpinMan Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Exactly. And that's where this needs to end. Like the game or not, buy it or not. We have a rough idea of how it'll be when it launches, and if that doesn't meet your criteria for fun, quality, and value, then decide appropriately.
IRRE_Belmont Posted February 14, 2015 Author Posted February 14, 2015 Just out of interest where is 60 euro a monthly wage? EDIT Ok urs sorry to be rude It's ok, at the time i was only working in a small music group, so my budget was limited Still, i bought the game because i saw it's potential I think that might be how much he receives in pocket money. Never had any pocket money in my entire life But please, don't diverge from the original idea of the post
Finkeren Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I would have loved nothing better than for the devs to have made a shorter version of the RoF career for BoS, but that wasn't to be. I can live with that. I'm content with the devs improving an already good sim and creating lots of models and maps for the community to play with. As long as we get a good FMB, dserver and the devs support the community in creating campaigns, I think we're gonna be alright.
Quax Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Quite right. I see today's announcement as very reassuring. The core of the game will keep being updated - for free - and we'll be getting a mergeable new/game expansion, call it what you will. 60-90 euros? Good, it'll give my 400 euro graphic card something to workout on. + 1000
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