About Battle of Moscow

[IRRE_Belmont]

I like the idea, the new planes and features... but, is that all we are going to see on BoS ?

I'm sorry to say, but i expected a little bit more from the devs on this one... when i bought the game for 60 euros (wich was my mounthly wage at the time), i thought updates would continue for it for many years and for free.

 

Perhaps i'm sounding a little bit harsh, but from my point of view, BOS is not even close to be finished, adding 2 new maps (textures of the Stalingrad map in reality) and a bunch of fixes is definitly not what i expected.

 

What are your guys thoughts on this ?

 

 

[Yakdriver]

you want them to work for free.
for many years.

because you paid 60 euros once.
i would gather that your 60 euros will make a man eat one month in russia.

and you want to give one month of food for 10 years of work a la Il-2FB/AEP/PF/1946?

i can not post what i think right now.
I mean i could, but...

 

"but it worked for oleg???"
this is 2015, Oleg is gone.


I agree, BoS is not finished. I miss the promised tools
if thy do not finish what they started, and what i paid for BEFORE putting a new product on the shelf, i guess my reaction will be along the lines of "thumbs down"

[Jaws2002]

Absolutely agree with you Belmont.

 

       BOS is just a shell right now. An expensive empty shell. There are a lot of missing, not working and bad things in this game right now.

 Unless the big issues with BOS are fixed, and I see a changed attitude towards customers, I'm not interested in future expansions. Even if those are fixed, this way of doing things ,will fragment the already hopelessly fragmented player base. New maps, new stand alone versions, new premium and new standard versions....It's cluster****.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Jaws2002

[Finkeren]

Can you please elaborate on what is 'missing'?

 

Yes, we're still waiting (for too long) for the FMB. But it has been made clear, that it will be released long before we see any of BoM.

 

Other than that, what content is missing?

 

No, not all of BoS was, what we hoped it would be. I was personally rather disappointed by the campaign mode, and I think both the unlocks and the forced presets for graphics and campaign difficulty are bad design choices, but they're certainly not 'missing'.

[IRRE_Belmont]

you want them to work for free.

for many years.

 

because you paid 60 euros once.

i would gather that your 60 euros will make a man eat one month in russia.

and you want to give one month of food for 10 years of work a la Il-2FB/AEP/PF/1946?

i can not post what i think right now.

I mean i could, but...

 

"but it worked for oleg???"

this is 2015, Oleg is gone.

 

 

I agree, BoS is not finished. I miss the promised tools

if thy do not finish what they started, and what i paid for BEFORE putting a new product on the shelf, i guess my reaction will be along the lines of "thumbs down"

 

I never talked about them working for free, and i even support them by buying prenium planes.

But before beginning another product, they should maybe focus on finishing this one 

Can you please elaborate on what is 'missing'?

 

Yes, we're still waiting (for too long) for the FMB. But it has been made clear, that it will be released long before we see any of BoM.

 

Other than that, what content is missing?

 

No, not all of BoS was, what we hoped it would be. I was personally rather disappointed by the campaign mode, and I think both the unlocks and the forced presets for graphics and campaign difficulty are bad design choices, but they're certainly not 'missing'.

I just expected more from the game, like maybe new ground targets, new scenarios, or even a spectator mode (great for fan-videos).

 

Then again, this is 2015, and i'm starting to think i shouldn't put too many hopes in gaming nowadays

Edited February 13, 2015 by SYN_Belmont

[Airdrop01]

Yakdriver: respectfully, we have been told several times by Jason that the funds to finish BOS were there and "in the can" before Founder gold bar early access. So, they can either admit that was a lie and apologize or they'll never get another penny from me; and we certainly don't have to listen to "cry poor" because that is directly countered by the devs own prior and vehemently forwarded statements.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

 

 

adding 2 new maps (textures of the Stalingrad map in reality) and a bunch of fixes is definitly not what i expected.

 

Within the first year they are adding these features/maps, as you stated, and essentially continue working on the game for free. I'm sorry but I don't follow your logic here. What else did you expect for free?

[Finkeren]

But before beginning another product, they should maybe focus on finishing this one

See, that's what I don't understand. Does nobody know what 'cash flow' means? No business can afford to continue development and fix issues with an old product without also working on new products that actually generate revenue.

 

Having the devs work on BoM alongside making the finishing touches on BoS actually ensures the continued development of BoS rather than hinder it. The alternative is, that the devs close down the project now and do no further work on it at all.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Finkeren

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Yakdriver: respectfully, we have been told several times by Jason that the funds to finish BOS were there and "in the can" before Founder gold bar early access. So, they can either admit that was a lie and apologize or they'll never get another penny from me; and we certainly don't have to listen to "cry poor" because that is directly countered by the devs own prior and vehemently forwarded statements.

So long as the FMB is released I think they have fulfilled their mission statement. It's not everything you or I may have wanted but it certainly meets current expectations. Admitting a lie is a bit over the top, m'thinks. You have every right to not toss them any coppers but I'll be throwing a wad of bills at them when the time comes.

Edited February 13, 2015 by HerrMurf

[BraveSirRobin]

I just expected more from the game, like maybe new ground targets, new scenarios, or even a spectator mode (great for fan-videos).

 

Then again, this is 2015, and i'm starting to think i shouldn't put too many hopes in gaming nowadays

 

If BOS/BOM is anything like RoF, that's the sort of stuff they add with each update/module.

[DD_Arthur]

Can some one show me a flight sim that was ever "finished"?

[J2_Trupobaw]

BoM is supposed to integrate with BoS... same game, new map and planes, can be bought and installed without BoS. Zak even said you can but premium  BoM planes directly to add them to your BoS IIRC . So I suppose the developement of "core" elements (shared by BoS and BoM, anything that isn't Moscow map, ten planes and SP campaign for BoM)  will continue, and it will be added to BoS as well as BoM.

[IRRE_Belmont]

See, that's what I don't understand. Does nobody know what 'cash flow' means? No business can afford to continue development and fix issues with an old product without also working on new products that actually generate revenue.

 

Having the devs work on BoM alongside making the finishing touches on BoS actually ensures the continued development of BoS rather than hinder it. The alternative is, that the devs close down the project now and do no further work on it at all.

I'm ok with them making money and being able to maintain a good financial statues, gosh i'm even happy for them.

But i think i just expected more from the game itself, i don't really know how to explain it, but for a moment i really thought IL2 1946 was going to have a little brother 

[BraveSirRobin]

 but for a moment i really thought IL2 1946 was going to have a little brother 

 

That's exactly what they're doing.  BOM isn't a new game, it's like the Pacific add-on module for IL-2.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

 

 

I just expected more from the game, like maybe new ground targets, new scenarios, or even a spectator mode (great for fan-videos).

 

That is a fair expectation from the next, integrated, scenario - BOM. I'm with you on that. I'm pretty sure the modellers and artists have been busy while other work has been done to tune BOS and get the FMB up and running. 

[IRRE_Belmont]

Again, i'm NOT against BOM .
It's a wonderful news, i just wanted to share my general opinion concerning BoS 

That's exactly what they're doing.  BOM isn't a new game, it's like the Pacific add-on module for IL-2.

Well, that's really good then!

I was scared about this addition splitting the community to be frank.

 

 

That is a fair expectation from the next, integrated, scenario - BOM. I'm with you on that. I'm pretty sure the modellers and artists have been busy while other work has been done to tune BOS and get the FMB up and running. 

We'll see in time i guess 

Can some one show me a flight sim that was ever "finished"?

Strike Fighter 2 series ?

[Finkeren]

I'm ok with them making money and being able to maintain a good financial statues, gosh i'm even happy for them.

But i think i just expected more from the game itself, i don't really know how to explain it, but for a moment i really thought IL2 1946 was going to have a little brother

I share that sentiment tbh. I expected a lot more from the campaign mode, and some of the weird design choices like unlocks and forced presets were IMHO wrong and misguided.

 

Still, that doesn't change the fact that BoS at its core is a very solid sim with a huge potential. I'm confident, that this can ideed become the 'next IL-2 1946', but we have to remember, that IL-2 took ten years to become what it is now. Things don't happen overnight.

 

One thing that made IL-2 1946 so great was its huge amount of content, and that's precisely what the devs are creating for us now with BoM: Content. Planes and maps and all the other building blocks of a great simming experience.

 

We can expect, that neither the SP nor MP content of BoM will be up to snuff, but this is where the simmer community has always exelled and I'm confident, that with the release of the FMB and (hopefully) support from the devs, we will see sprawling MP and community made SP content that will surpass PWCG from RoF.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Finkeren

[fjacobsen]

I rather think that BOM has become possible due to the added developer members who now are doing the other seasonal maps for BOS and thus also are able to do the Moscow maps.

 

Maybe thats even good, since that will now free the "old" developers to look into the other missing parts.

I don´t think we should see that BOM is developed by sacrificing BOS, but rather see it as benificial for both titles now.

 

I agree that some important features are still missing.

The current campaign does not have my greatest interest and using the QMB also becomes somewhat boring, but the Veteran missios has clearly shown the potential of this sim and I´m sure that it will be easier to get more of that kind once the FMB has been released.

 

After that, at some point, I´m sure that some talented guys will find out how to make a real campaign system thats more immersive and "campaignish" than the current one, which more works as an enhanced QMB for me.

 

I have once again experimentet in the QMB to get my AI flight members to do some mudmoving, but I´m afraid that also the QMB is resposible for the AI not to do their job, since all missions in the QMB where You can have wingmen is about intercepting enemy aircraft. F.ex today I tried with 4 x Il-2, but was forced to also have atleast 1 enemy aircraft (HE-111). Problem was that my wingmen constantly wanted to intercept the enemy bomber instead of following me with our loadout of rockets and bombs to attack ground targets. As noted numerous times, they did a very poor job and I was onyl able to get one wingman to destroy a single ground target. Otherwise they just moved ailessly around trying to catch with me, even if I stayed very near the ground targets I wanted them to attack.

 

So once again I think that priority must be set to fix the current ground attack AI, both direct attacks and levelbombing. For levelbombing I simply want the wingmen to follw my order "Do as I do" and do exactly that - Stay in formation, open bombdoors when I do and drop their bombs when I do - quite simple I think.

 

The rest seems allready to be on schedule i.e FMB, more aircraft, other seasonal maps etc..

 

The days of free upgrades aka the old IL-2 title is definitly history and for a good reason - no company can live from the happiness of their customers alone, and I am happy to ba able to support 1C/777 as long as they do quality stuff and listens to their customers, which I also find they do (maybe apart from the long time it took for them to find a way to bypass unlocks).

 

The furture seems bright and I´m looking forward to BOM and all the enhancements that also will be done to BOS.

 

 

FinnJ

[ZaknafeinTV]

Totally agree with you SYN_Belmont i expected more from developers especially more stuff in MP which been neglected in the same way as in BoS and RoF. Politics is spent each year a new title, does not serve quality. Seriously think about it and will read reliable reviews before buy another title from 777.

 

S!

[BeastyBaiter]

They are going with the original IL2 series expansion model. That means each addon can be stand alone or combined with previous releases. It also means that the older releases will recieve new features and updates completely free of charge in order to maintain compatability with newer ones. This setup is a very good sign for a better campaign, better MP and a variety of other things. Even if you don't buy any additional IL2 releases, you should still see a signifcant number of improvements to the core game as long as they keep making money and selling new addons. The complaints in this thread are not valid. You're getting exactly what you're complaining about not getting!

Edited February 13, 2015 by =LD=King_Hrothgar

[Yakdriver]

huh...?
 

i thought updates would continue for it for many years and for free.

 

updates are work, because updates need someone to change the files n stuff.

so i understand the following:

i thought they would continue working, for many years, for free.

 

looks plain and simple o me.
apologies if i completely missed the point.

===================

ah, and i paid  100 bucks for this.

i expect the major issues to be handled, taken care of and accepted by the community before they ask me for another 100 bucks.
tools, ground units, maps... Things to play around with.

[Jaws2002]

Can you please elaborate on what is 'missing'?

 

Yes, we're still waiting (for too long) for the FMB. But it has been made clear, that it will be released long before we see any of BoM.

 

Other than that, what content is missing?

 

 

 

 

    The FMB (promised in the first announcement is still missing, Ded server, still missing. This two are "on the way" for ages. Coops missing, LAN play and simple server hosting, like any other game out there, for squads and friends to fly together, without the need of a complicated dedicated server and an extra computer. Custom graphics, some sort of "stats/results" for QMB sorties, to tell you what you did.  A decent campaign is also missing.

 

 Also missing is a version of the game without the grind.

[Zak]

I'm sorry to say, but i expected a little bit more from the devs on this one... when i bought the game for 60 euros (wich was my mounthly wage at the time), i thought updates would continue for it for many years and for free.

Perhaps i'm sounding a little bit harsh, but from my point of view, BOS is not even close to be finished, adding 2 new maps (textures of the Stalingrad map in reality) and a bunch of fixes is definitly not what i expected

1) We never said we stopped working on BOS.

2) We are not making a free to play game, we are making a highly specific niche market game which has a community where almost everyone knows almost everyone.

3) You're the only person who has a clue about your expectations. No one else does.

[=AVG=Zombie]

Found the hater thread, what I hate is when im on someones six and shoot all around them till im out of ammo and some knocks my wing off with one burst..... Thats what pisses me off about the game, cant believe I spent part of a days salary on this game......

[kendo]

 

 

I have once again experimentet in the QMB to get my AI flight members to do some mudmoving, but I´m afraid that also the QMB is resposible for the AI not to do their job, since all missions in the QMB where You can have wingmen is about intercepting enemy aircraft. F.ex today I tried with 4 x Il-2, but was forced to also have atleast 1 enemy aircraft (HE-111). Problem was that my wingmen constantly wanted to intercept the enemy bomber instead of following me with our loadout of rockets and bombs to attack ground targets. As noted numerous times, they did a very poor job and I was onyl able to get one wingman to destroy a single ground target. Otherwise they just moved ailessly around trying to catch with me, even if I stayed very near the ground targets I wanted them to attack.

 

Agree with this. I recently put in an improvement suggestion for the QMB asking them to change so that we can set enemy aircraft to zero for exactly this reason.

 

Of course coding a change to the AI routines would do the trick too.   

[Zak]

The FMB (promised in the first announcement is still missing, Ded server, still missing.

When you have both what will you start to ask for? Just curios.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

To be fair, MP mission building will be more up to the community than the Devs. Even the old shoot em up AAA server had tons of bomber boys because there were lots of targets. Same for the semi-historical Skies of V/F servers. All of the AIRCRAFT got used because there were lots of objectives/targets. Get the level bombers and the fast bombers moving mud, then the game becomes more fun for everyone - even the fighter jocks like me. The FMB will bring out the best of the community designers and then this series will really take off.

Edited February 13, 2015 by HerrMurf

[IRRE_Belmont]

huh...?

 

updates are work, because updates need someone to change the files n stuff.

so i understand the following:

 

i thought they would continue working, for many years, for free.

 

looks plain and simple o me.

apologies if i completely missed the point.

 

===================

 

ah, and i paid  100 bucks for this.

i expect the major issues to be handled, taken care of and accepted by the community before they ask me for another 100 bucks.

tools, ground units, maps... Things to play around with.

Kinda my fault here, i meant ''i thought they would continue working on updates for this game'' , just realised my mistake

 

Found the hater thread, what I hate is when im on someones six and shoot all around them till im out of ammo and some knocks my wing off with one burst..... Thats what pisses me off about the game, cant believe I spent part of a days salary on this game......

I'm not hating here my good sir , i but only gave my opinion concerning the game, nothing more, nothing less

[Jaws2002]

 

 

2) We are not making a free to play game, we are making a highly specific niche market game which has a community where almost everyone knows almost everyone.

 

None of this people you are talking about here ever asked for the grind/unlocks. So, if you are trying to make a game for this people why not remove them all together.  

[IRRE_Belmont]

1) We never said we stopped working on BOS.

2) We are not making a free to play game, we are making a highly specific niche market game which has a community where almost everyone knows almost everyone.

3) You're the only person who has a clue about your expectations. No one else does.

1) I know, and i thank you for it! I was just giving my feelings concerning the dev blog.

2) I know that too, i guess we'll have to see how BoM works out in the future

3) Good enough

[=AVG=Zombie]

Will someone make Jaws a IAR-80 for gods sake.

[LizLemon]

When you have both what will you start to ask for? Just curios.

How about occulus surrport?

 

Or will we need to find a programmer for you to hire in order to get that one?

[sallee]

"Obelix and Company" is a good place to start if you need to understand business.

[Yakdriver]

well... BoS is Dx9, OR dropped that.
so you ask for a port to Dx10/11?

[Jaws2002]

When you have both what will you start to ask for? Just curios.

 

 

For me, to buy a flight sim, flying game, it doesn't have to be perfect. I used to just buy everything related to flying just to support the genre. It didn't matter if I spent thousands of hours in it, like Il-2, ROF, or I flew them two three afternoons and then moved on.

I'm easy as customer: 

 Keep your word and I'll give you my money, time after time, just to support the genre.

 

Play marketing tricks and try too fool me around, say one thing, then do another, clamp down on anyone asking questions in the forum, I'll find other things to spend my money on.

 

So to aswer your question, "what I'd want after you release those two":   Honesty. That's it.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

So far, this is the politest disagreement discussion in months. Much appreciated, in all seriousness. Keep it up boys.

 

Edit: Post has been up for five minutes and I may already have to ammend it. C'mon boys. Other than announcing the FMB, I can't think of a better possible announcement from the Dev's.

 

Disagreeing is fine. Let's not get inflammatory.

Edited February 13, 2015 by HerrMurf

[Yakdriver]

i do not want to sound like an ass-hat...

but asking for honesty in this world is a lot.
and i mean that in every sector of life - job, private, family, buying stuff...

first lesson in school should be: how to detect people that give you BS. How to avoid and outsmart them with honesty.

[BraveSirRobin]

So far, this is the politest disagreement discussion in months. Much appreciated, in all seriousness. Keep it up boys.

 

I'm not sure that calling someone a liar is exactly "polite".  Just sayin...

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Edited my last post.

 

I hope you don't think, I called anyone a liar here?!

Edited February 13, 2015 by HerrMurf

[DD_Arthur]

When you have both what will you start to ask for? Just curios.

 

Coop mode please Zak

 

Edited February 13, 2015 by DD_Arthur