I have attempted the take off and landing(calm and Normal) mission 27 times

[Right_Wingrightwinger90]

WITH OUT SUCCESS! I watched the auto pilot do it 2 times as well, and I used 3rd person (or plane) so I can get a better view of what I am doing.

I can usually approach without a problem (though sometimes I crash before I reach the run-way due to my lack of speed or control) and I touch the run-way with full flaps at about 150-170 Kph every time (and at an angle which I believe is almost exactly as the auto pilot). But my plane just bounces up a bit and if I try to salvage the landing the plane bumps up again , but this time the gears pop off as the plane as it is moving up. THOUGH if the landing gears manage to stay on and it looks like it might go work ; my plane swings to the left or right and its wing taps the ground and then flips over on its back somehow...(I believe it might be due to the low speed or one wheel touches before the other causing it to flip to the opposite side ,as I find quite difficult to control the plane with such low speed and engine power even though I followed the autopilot method by lowering and increasing thrust just enough to stay around 160 Kph but not low enough to cause it to flip to one side)

 

I play with a 70$ joystick that I bought last month, and it seems to work just fine; though if I let go of it, the plane starts to slowly go downward. Is this Normal?

 

Also this game should come with a warning stickers stating that if you don't have at least 5 years of real WWII era plane flying experience DON'T BUY IT.

there is NO support for new players in any form , and I feel as though I am missing out on a great game because I can't figure anything out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[von_Greiff]

hmmmmmmmm.....perhaps it helps, if I tell you that in WW2 more accidents/losses accured in starting/landing then in flight/fight, go, watch Requiems wonderfull tutorials and then practice. practice, practice.....It's possible!!!

 

yours

v.Greiff

 

... go easy on the stick, and probably you need to spend some time on fine adjustment.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

I really enjoy reading these threads, not because some one is struggling in-game but because it reminds you of the same things you went through starting out many years ago. Great to see new players joining the game.

 

What plane are you practicing in?

 

If its the 109, aim for a three point landing. If you bounce then chances are you were too fast on touchdown. When I land, the stick is all the way back as I touch down.

 

When I land, I use both toe brakes on the rudder but if I start veering one way I lift up on the appropriate brake and then reapply to adjust.

 

Don't give up. Eventually it will all come together and you get to move on to the next challenge - combat.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

I've flown flight sims for awhile before taking on BoS. But when I started, I could not take off in these planes to save my life. Now I can take off in just about anything. Taxing and landing are two things I'm still working at. It takes time and not giving up on the challenge of conquering it.

 

Chief

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

First things first: If you are spinning I am guessing you are flying Soviet aircraft? Throttle back up a little, while braking, to keep air moving over the tail to help control the spinning.

 

Secondly: Are you air starting or taking off? If you are taking off, how is that going?

 

Look up requiems video's. They are the best place to start.

 

The landing gear in this sim is visually much higher than in Il2 '46 and must be put down in a three point.

 

If you bounce a little and haven't crushed the gear, just hold the aircraft in the same three point attitude and let it settle. If you are consistently crushing the gear your sink rate is too high.

 

Make a video of some of your attempts. After you respond I will give you more advice and troubleshoot your landings if you'd like. We can meet up on the DED server and I can walk you through your landings as well, although, I'm an Fw driver so I'd have to polish up my Russian landings too.

[unreasonable]

My advice FWIW - do circuits approaching the strip but do not try to complete the landing until you have the feel that you are in full control of the speed and descent of the approach.

 

Then try these with gear down and only a little flap (cannot remember which plane it is). Full flaps will exaggerate any mistake you make. Again, if not in full control, go around.

 

Eventually you will discover the flap, rpm and approach that gets you into the right place in control, then you can finish the actual landing. Hugely satisfying when you get it right!

[BlackBadger]

It is possible to land with the right technique and practice, keep trying. For what it's worth though the planes do break up at landing too easily. It's been improved a bit, but it was nigh impossible in early access.

[sallee]

These games should come with the warning that when you do eventually manage that first landing you will forget every crash and feel like Johnny Longcock! If it wasn't so difficult, it wouldn't be so rewarding when it works.

In the original Il-2 I was pulling out my hair trying to pull off a decent landing, but it certainly wasn't 5 years before I did... more like a few days.

 

Some good advice above. Watch the splendid Requiem's tutorials and stick at it. You absolutely won't regret it.

 

Good luck and take solace in the fact that when you crash, you can just have another go....unlike real life.

[Dakpilot]

Try reading this thread, some good advice can be found

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/13741-landing-help/?hl=+lagg +landing

 

search function is quite useful, all the questions have already been asked..they just need finding

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[SharpeXB]

These are all good here too

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12346-basic-flight-non-combat-training-films-the40s/

[Jaeger55]

Landing is a complete pain in the arse. I'm finding that I have to unlearn what I think works from other Sims. It will not work well here.

I have very slowly progressed from crash every landing attempt, to just a few large bounces on landing g and damaging the prop, to sometimes making a somewhat decent looking landing. Never a proper smooth three point landing but I expect to be there soon.

 

I know you don't want to hear it but, practice makes perfect!

[indiaciki]

Try flying in dirty configuration (flaps down, gear down at approach speed) in level flight 10m above the ground for as long as you can as often as possible for a start.

[Jaeger55]

Try flying in dirty configuration (flaps down, gear down at approach speed) in level flight 10m above the ground for as long as you can as often as possible for a start.

This makes for good practice. Get low,slow and dirty. Use the trim to adjust pitch and for Christ sake, get some engineers to cut them damd trees down near the ends of the runway!

[novicebutdeadly]

This makes for good practice. Get low,slow and dirty. Use the trim to adjust pitch and for Christ sake, get some engineers to cut them damd trees down near the ends of the runway!

 

The tress aren't as bad as some of the maps in il2 1946......

[voncrapenhauser]

Its definitely more difficult than RL flying.

 

On this game I used to slow down too much and pancake.

An extra 10..20 knots seems to help me.

But tbh think I have only ever greased a landing maybe 5 times max.

 

I would maybe Practice in the IL2 it is a little more stable then move up to what I consider the hardest to land The Lagg's.

That's only because of the non lockable tail wheel.

 

Landings always fine it's the rollout which gets me every time

 

 

if I let go of it, the plane starts to slowly go downward. Is this Normal?

 

Yes but depends on where your trim settings are.

Edited February 13, 2015 by voncrapenhauser

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Hello, I wonder if it is to do with the joystick you are using. I have used several while playing BoS and each one has its downsides, upsides and strange peculiarities. I noticed with a Black widow flight stick  that as soon as I throttle up I have spun the aircraft in wild circles on the runway and have been unable to do anything about it. I think this has something to do with the rudder configuration on the stick and no matter what I do, nothing seems to help. The strange thing is that this stick works exceptionally well with CLOD. I also find that the aircraft continually wants to pitch up and no matter how much I mess with the trim settings, it makes no difference. I have also used an x55 rhino and while this feel much heavier all of the aircraft are very controllable. I find that my favourite joystick is the Logitech Freedom which seems to control all of the aircraft very well indeed.

[Cat_Astrophe]

Don't feel bad OP, I've run more flight sims that I can even remember and crack up on landing better than half the time right now. Just takes practice.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Since the thread has been reopened after being dormant for some time, I am wondering how the OP's landings have progressed? Any updates?

[Cat_Astrophe]

Since the thread has been reopened after being dormant for some time, I am wondering how the OP's landings have progressed? Any updates?

Yeah, I feel sort of bad for necroing the the thread  inadvertently. The forum sure moves slow here. lol

 

I hope the OP found his solution! Mine seems to entail hitting the ground slower than listed on Chucks reference material (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-uSpZROuEd3dWlZYVFyR2RRQ3c/view) (touchdown@150kph for LAGG3 for example) and dragging the brakes with 20-30% throttle to beat the ground looping. May not be textbook, but it works.

[carve_gybe1]

Cat_Astrophe, does the low landing speed require flat approaches that make the runway impossible to see as you cross the threshold?

 

Thanks!

[Cat_Astrophe]

It does begin to obscure the runway somewhat as I get close on approach @ 100m alt or less and 180-190kph crossing the "beacon" or whatever it is off the end of the runway, but it doesn't seem too hard to keep her centered. This seems to be about the only way I can set one down without too much bouncing and a nearly inevitable crackup or loss of control... mind you, I'm now working with what seems to be a much better stick as of yesterday (dropped a well used X52 for a Saitek X36F... obsolete but much smoother) and pedals arrive today virtue of fleabay, so things should get easier still. What led to the improved results was getting speed down to 150-160kph on touchdown with about 20-30% throttle applied for the LAGG3. Not so sure what speed I would like for the others, as I try to concentrate on a single plane to learn its quirks before moving on. Today I seem to be having near 100% success. Mayhaps I have spent too much time dumping Zeros on carrier decks?lol

 

Blasted X52 only made it about 6 months this time before getting creaky and developing a shudder in the yaw as well. No more X52s for me! Needing to grease a JS to make it work properly is too silly... yet I have done that too.

[coconut]

The fact that you lose sight of the runway makes me think maybe you are not doing the right thing. You can actually aim down at the start of the runway and pull up at the last moment. It may sound crazy, but it's not an F16 you are landing 

 

 

(Edit: OK, looking at my own video I did not aim down and I lost sight of the runway a few seconds before touchdown. But I know I used to approach "pushing the air with my wings", nose up and too steep an angle. That lead to a lot of damaged landing gears, bouncing and looping).

Edited July 10, 2015 by coconut

[Cat_Astrophe]

@Coconut: Take a naked Lagg and run a mission w/o gnd targets using autopilot a few times. That final approach and touchdown speed is what I aim for... and the touchdown speed is? Is the landing strip always visible?

 

I'm not arguing with you at all. It just looks like the autopilot hasn't read Chucks data. Beautiful landing on the vid, by the way. I can hardly wait to see what else you have on your channel.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Even with a good approach and flare you are driving a long(ish) nose fighter. You will lose sight of the runway in the last 2-3 seconds of flight as you hold it off and stall into your three point.

 

Most of the fighters in BOS touch down well in the 150-170 range.

 

Any landing you can walk away from, eh?!

Edited July 10, 2015 by [TBC]HerrMurf

[carve_gybe1]

How did you not groundloop with throttle below 20%, coconut?

[coconut]

carve_gybe: Luck, mostly. I can't claim I manage that all the time. In a similar attempt I did before this one I looped just as I was coming to a stop. It's a matter of feeling, which is not easy when you can't feel acceleration. I'm playing with rudders which have toe-breaks. I think that helps, compared to using a button which can only apply 0% or 100% force.

[Cat_Astrophe]

carve_gybe: Luck, mostly. I can't claim I manage that all the time. In a similar attempt I did before this one I looped just as I was coming to a stop. It's a matter of feeling, which is not easy when you can't feel acceleration. I'm playing with rudders which have toe-breaks. I think that helps, compared to using a button which can only apply 0% or 100% force.

This may seem like a noobish question (appropriate term in my case) but does the LAGG have differential braking via toe brakes or does it require rudder input? I just gained the capability to use toe brakes but wasn't sure if it was possible on that plane. It would be easier than some of the descriptions I see for the LAGG brake system operation. Of course, I may be misunderstanding the descriptions as well.

 

@HerrMurf: Any landing you can walk away from indeed! I beat my head against a wall for 2 weeks trying to set down at 170kph as listed on Chucks reference material only to find out repeatedly that I haven't the skill to do it cleanly as Coconut demonstrated...  such frustration! Getting a feel for landing in BOS is one of the toughest things I have encountered in a while.

[coconut]

does the LAGG have differential braking via toe brakes or does it require rudder input

No toe breaks, I was referring to the physical device I have under my desk. You have to use the rudder, but that's only during taxi.

 

During landing, use the rudder to stabilize your plane after touch down and roll straight, and after that you break, doing small rudder adjustments as necessary. Use the breaks or the rudder, not both. That's true until the point where you are ready to stop. Then you need to use a bit of both, which is tricky. Also, make sure to pull your joystick to the maximum once you have lost all lift, that supposedly helps a bit (I think Chuck mentioned that).

Edited July 12, 2015 by coconut

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

170km/h is touchdown speed without flaps at best. With landing flaps you're better touching down at 140-130km/h (135km/h is touchdown speed for the bf109) to avoid bumping.

 

Most important is to make use of trim. Many people neglect this part but especially at low speed and full flaps fighters may become unstable to handle if you aircrfat is trimmed wrong.

[coconut]

Another video on landing (and other things), by Syn_Requiem:

 

http://youtu.be/CxovZk-EfRo?t=4m44s

 

 

 

170km/h is touchdown speed without flaps at best. With landing flaps you're better touching down at 140-130km/h

 

Not sure if your comment is supposed to apply to the LaGG as well... I can't really see myself attempting landing at lower speeds in that plane, but if there's a way to do it, I would love to see a video of that.

 

 

 

@Coconut: Take a naked Lagg and run a mission w/o gnd targets using autopilot a few times. That final approach and touchdown speed is what I aim for... and the touchdown speed is? Is the landing strip always visible?

 

 

I do not understand that part. I checked how the AI does it, and it's pretty much the same as in my video, a bit nicer actually.

 

On the general chapter of speed, I would say it does not matter, and you probably shouldn't be looking at your instruments during touch-down. If you have the right angle of approach and the right attitude on touch down, whatever speed you are flying then is the right one.

[Cat_Astrophe]

No toe breaks, I was referring to the physical device I have under my desk. You have to use the rudder, but that's only during taxi.

 

During landing, use the rudder to stabilize your plane after touch down and roll straight, and after that you break, doing small rudder adjustments as necessary. Use the breaks or the rudder, not both. That's true until the point where you are ready to stop. Then you need to use a bit of both, which is tricky. Also, make sure to pull your joystick to the maximum once you have lost all lift, that supposedly helps a bit (I think Chuck mentioned that).

 

Ahhh.... Guess I need to go back and reread that description on how the Soviet brake system works... and make sure I know how to apply it in game. Happily, I'm now getting her on the ground without the pogo stick routine.... when I remember to put the landing gear down! (Yes, with distraction of the new pedals I have a nice approach and think I am home free only to belly flop due to forgetting to drop the gear because I have my attention riveted on the approach. That's the last 4 of 6 landings! lol)

 

170km/h is touchdown speed without flaps at best. With landing flaps you're better touching down at 140-130km/h (135km/h is touchdown speed for the bf109) to avoid bumping.

 

Most important is to make use of trim. Many people neglect this part but especially at low speed and full flaps fighters may become unstable to handle if you aircrfat is trimmed wrong.

 

 I figured I would be a clever boy and study the charts to see what speeds I should be using for landing, etc. At 170kph I am landing a pogo stick every time and at 150kph I get a nasty wing drop more likely than not, so 150-160kph became the target. My strong preference is for a nice 3 point landing(getting real close to it now if the gear is down), so I will look at trim! Hadn't even considered that. There really should be a sticky on the page with assorted landing tips and tricks... and there may be one somewhere but I haven't seen it yet.

 

Another video on landing (and other things), by Syn_Requiem:

 

http://youtu.be/CxovZk-EfRo?t=4m44s

 

 I checked how the AI does it, and it's pretty much the same as in my video, a bit nicer actually.

 

On the general chapter of speed, I would say it does not matter, and you probably shouldn't be looking at your instruments during touch-down. If you have the right angle of approach and the right attitude on touch down, whatever speed you are flying then is the right one.

The AI just goes slower at touchdown. After much frustration and many crack ups, I just sat back and watched the AI land repeatedly. It didn't use a different approach, but simply went slower and arrived at touchdown with less lift so any bouncing was mild. On average the touchdown speed was consistently between 150-160kph, so I tried that and started seeing some success finally. Sooner or later I will undoubtedly be able to land going faster and without flaps at all... but not at this point! The level of difficulty has been a real surprise and left me thinking of an intensely frustrating episode years ago trying to learn how to set a jet down on a carrier. Alas, I do not remember the title of the game for certain but it was likely one of the Janes series or similar. It's a real letdown for a new player to have a spiffy mission and multiple kills only to dump the plane onto the ground in a broken heap rather than make that nice soft landing. It does give a sense of accomplishment when one does finally manage a few nice landings tho! 

 

Thanks for every bit of info guys!

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I can't wait to prang a few carrier landings in this engine!

[carve_gybe1]

Either an IL-2 BOS fairy came to me at night to give me extra skills with her magic wand, or landing the Lagg has become easier after the most recent patch has been made available. Anyone else finding it to control the Lagg on landing now? Otherwise it's the fairy...may be she grants other wishes like keeping visual of 109s in MP expert mode...

 

Carve

[Dakpilot]

"so I will look at trim! Hadn't even considered that "

 

Try some experiments using trim, it is very important to have the aircraft correctly trimmed on approach, a nicely trimmed aircraft with correct power setting (nil wind) will almost fly hands off for the whole approach with only a small inputs needed for the flare, remember power affects height/sink rate and attitude is used to control speed'

 

If the aircraft is not trimmed correctly you will be 'fighting' it all the way to the ground..    a stable approach results in a stable landing

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Cat_Astrophe]

"so I will look at trim! Hadn't even considered that "

 

Try some experiments using trim, it is very important to have the aircraft correctly trimmed on approach, a nicely trimmed aircraft with correct power setting (nil wind) will almost fly hands off for the whole approach with only a small inputs needed for the flare, remember power affects height/sink rate and attitude is used to control speed'

 

If the aircraft is not trimmed correctly you will be 'fighting' it all the way to the ground..    a stable approach results in a stable landing

 

Cheers Dakpilot

For me, yes, there has been and will be a lot of experimenting! Oddly, on my 1st flyout in a 109, I nailed the landing on the first go... don't ask me how. I've never cared for the landing habits of the BF109 in any other sim, so maybe I just got lucky? Mostly my landings are sort of ok now, but still too bouncy. I'd like her to just set down all at once and stay down. That seems to be a tall order. My aileron trim is always good for landing but should I be trimming the elevator too? That may be where I am missing the boat.

[LukeFF]

 

 

Oddly, on my 1st flyout in a 109, I nailed the landing on the first go... don't ask me how. I've never cared for the landing habits of the BF109 in any other sim, so maybe I just got lucky? Mostly my landings are sort of ok now, but still too bouncy. I'd like her to just set down all at once and stay down. That seems to be a tall order. My aileron trim is always good for landing but should I be trimming the elevator too? That may be where I am missing the boat.

 

There is no aileron trim in the 109. It only has horizontal stabilizer trim. Personally, I always set it nose-heavy, and that works just fine for me. Having an artificial horizon in the G-2 model also helps greatly.  

[Cat_Astrophe]

There is no aileron trim in the 109. It only has horizontal stabilizer trim. Personally, I always set it nose-heavy, and that works just fine for me. Having an artificial horizon in the G-2 model also helps greatly.  

Yes, I noticed the lack of aileron trim and dislike that intensely and I don't follow the stabilizer setup yet. Much to learn!

 

@Dakpilot: By golly, the elevator trim!!! That seems to be what I was missing. Last 6 set downs were much better. Only ground looped on 2 and no crack ups at all! I'd buy you guys a beer, schnapps, or vodka if I could. The pointers are much appreciated!

[paul1084]

Hi, I too suffered similar frustrations, and just want to add the main solution to all my problems with the game (which has not been mentioned above yet)

 

I think BOS is very clever at making the sim appear to run smoothly on lower spec machines. I knew my machine was going to struggle, however In-flight, it seemed to run smoothly. In reality there was a delay from my input on the controls to what was shown on screen. it must have only been a fraction of a second, but it results in every movement being exaggerated... and then naturally the pilots correction ends up being overcompensated.... It made it near impossible to land. take-offs were achieved by learning the aircraft, and already having the correct amount of rudder applied before the aircraft had even started rolling. It's strange because the whole time the sim seemed to keep an 'OK' frame rate... I think this is down to some clever game mechanics.

 

I spec'd up a new machine, and now I can run the sim in the full quality it deserves.... and the difference is HUGE! it is like a different game.... all my practise on the low spec machine was not in vain though... I seem to have honed my flying skills, which resulted in a perfect smooth landing first time with my new machine.... something I could never have hoped to achieve on my old one!.... It was like learning to drive in a home built go-kart (with 4 different size wheels) and then moving onto a Ferrari

 

Hope this helps