I cannot be a defender of BoS anymore...

[Mac_Messer]

Game play beautiful. Planes beautiful.Ground objects beautiful.Everything is beautiful.

Too much pot.

i don't see much of a procedure, going to 6100m and flying as fast as the aircraft is able to (in autopilot), there is nothing more then that. Lagg and La also overspeed. The La only 20kph, i think that's okay. The Lagg overspeeds 25-35kph (don't know how fast it should be at this altitude, only it's topspeed), this is also kinda within the scope. But given the fact, that the Yak1 is the best fighter of the russians anyway, a perfomance boost of about 50kph+ is not acceptable. 

 

But no bias here. Sure. 

Let`s be frank here. If Germans made their cfs, it would probably be as much biased as this one.

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

please just read the whole topic, before drawing false conclusions all the time, or are you doing it on purpose? we were talking about 6100m altitude.

Thanks but no thanks..

 

In that you already proved my point, ie the need to provide a track file video of the test..

 

When you admitted that you had to 'assume' JtD's results were different due to different radiator settings..

[Mac_Messer]

Well, sue me.  It just always seems like the most strident nutbags from Galen Thurber to Siggi and his followers always seem to have a chip on their shoulder for their Luftwaffe aircraft. 

More like they feel the need to post it, other people also feel that something is wrong with Luftwaffe aircraft in this game. Yet you choose to call all of them [Edited]. Very nice, if not a 30 day ban material.

 

That was not quite what was said.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Bearcat

[SKG51_robtek]

More like they feel the need to post it, other people also feel that something is wrong with Luftwaffe aircraft in this game. Yet you choose to call all of them [Edited]. Very nice, if not a 30 day ban material.

Not in this forum, be sure!

[Brano]

doing the same test with the Yak i got to 450 kph IAS at this altitude. That is 603kph after your calculation. That's strange given the fact that the topspeed of the Yak1 with PF was 571kph at 3650m. 

Maybe because of this?

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/7-questions-developers/page-24?do=findComment&comment=195533

[Feathered_IV]

Not quite what I said or meant, but I've been cautioned on speaking further on the matter so I'll let it rest.

[FlatSpinMan]

Look it's no great secret that Luftwaffe aircraft consistently generate the most complaints, certainly in the old IL2 and in BoS. Don't know about CloD. Some of it seems reasonable, some if it just seems to be whining. The P-51, too, actually.

 

I guess it's because the Devs are clearly biased in favour of the German planes. No wait. They're biased in favour of the Russian planes. No hang on - they nerfed the... No, I mean they überized the... ah forget it.

[BraveSirRobin]

The devs seem to uberize every aircraft I meet.

[deleted@31403]

Look it's no great secret that Luftwaffe aircraft consistently generate the most complaints, certainly in the old IL2 and in BoS. Don't know about CloD. Some of it seems reasonable, some if it just seems to be whining. The P-51, too, actually.

 

I guess it's because the Devs are clearly biased in favour of the German planes. No wait. They're biased in favour of the Russian planes. No hang on - they nerfed the... No, I mean they überized the... ah forget it.

 

 

Yea your right. The P-51 my favorite ride was nerfed in 1946, they hated american planes. We all know that Oleg's favorite plane was the 109 and it was surely Uber.

Edited February 9, 2015 by IV/JG51_TwoLate

[Bearcat]

More like they feel the need to post it, other people also feel that something is wrong with Luftwaffe aircraft in this game. Yet you choose to call all of them "Nazis". Very nice, if not a 30 day ban material.

 

If that had been what he did yes a ban of some sort would have been on order.. but that was not what he did.

 

Not in this forum, be sure!

 

Under those circumstances .. no .. be sure.

[Wulf]

Not quite what I said or meant, but I've been cautioned on speaking further on the matter so I'll let it rest.

 

 

Probably for the best I'd have thought.  Labeling people [Edited], for criticizing a game may send some people scampering for cover but I'm not sure it's a useful substitute for persuasive argument.  Of course, if you just want to discourage further debate then it's probably as good a way as any.   And you still have [Edited] and [Edited] to fall back on if you fail to get the desired result.

 

Had you perhaps considered making an apology? 

Edited February 9, 2015 by Bearcat

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

I guess it's because the Devs are clearly biased in favour of the German planes. No wait. They're biased in favour of the Russian planes. No hang on - they nerfed the... No, I mean they überized the... ah forget it.

Bingo!

[unreasonable]

The argument about the margin of error in tests suggests why comparative information needs to be taken into account, if it is available.

 

Take 2 aircraft A and B.

 

Let each have top speed (under specified conditions) of index 100.

 

They are equally fast.

 

Allow +/- 5% measurement error.

 

Let us say A top speed is measured in a test at 105, B is 95.

 

A is now modeled to be 10 faster than B, just over 10%.

 

This would be a clear speed advantage tactically, determining who has the option to run away. 

 

So if individual plane test data has this error, and performance is reasonably closely matched according to test data, even qualitative comparative data can help to determine what outcomes make sense from a RL point of view.

 

Thinking aloud here....

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

I like the way you think out loud!

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Look it's no great secret that Luftwaffe aircraft consistently generate the most complaints, certainly in the old IL2 and in BoS. Don't know about CloD. Some of it seems reasonable, some if it just seems to be whining. The P-51, too, actually.

 

I guess it's because the Devs are clearly biased in favour of the German planes. No wait. They're biased in favour of the Russian planes. No hang on - they nerfed the... No, I mean they überized the... ah forget it.

 

I find it quite remarkable, that instead of trying to explain, why the Yak overspeeds at altitude about 50kph+, you are trying again to drag this reasonable concern into doubt, without having any explanation. And then also mocking about it, great job for a moderator, i have to say! 

[FlatSpinMan]

Thanks, man.

Lighten up - I'm allowed to have fun.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Thanks, man.

Lighten up - I'm allowed to have fun.

Then maybe it would be better you make a second account, to troll around like the other guys. But from a moderator you definitely expect other..

[No601_Swallow]

Just a personal comment: I tend automatically to filter out the luftwhining posts. I mean, the German aircraft are the most powerful, most well-designed, most easy to fly (pace landing in the 109), most fearsome aircraft in most flightsims (with exception of the Spitfire, natch!). They're generally awesome and popular.

 

And yet luftphiliacs always want more. Always. It's just a rule of the genre, and as such I accept it and ignore it. It's nothing to get hot and bothered about.

 

But I had to look up that quote of Maddox's that several people used as their sig back in ye olden times. It's still almost spiritual! "Pilots win dogfights. Not airplanes. If a pilot is not particularly good, regardless of a plane, he'll always have a sinking feeling that something somewhere is wrong... and not everyone is willing to admit that the fault lies within. - Oleg Maddox"

 

As Sir Robin said above, every aircraft I meet fills me with panic. But that's not because my plane's unhistorical - it's because I'm a bit crap at flying it! For what it's worth, I think the 190 is the best aeroplane in the game, and the most fun. . The Devs have shown that it's at least within a gnat's whisker of historical performance levels. What's not to love?

Edited February 9, 2015 by No601_Swallow

[CCG_Pips]

+1000000000000000000000  with N°601_Swallow ...........

 

the same childish debate is 15 years old (first IL-2).

It's funny, I NEVER seen the true virtual As pilots in our game, those, you meet in dogfight and which you just survive 10 seconds ahead !! coming here to post hard critics...............I believe that those who spend their Time on the forum to criticize are these crap pilots who have nothing else to do !!!

 

I hope devs are aware about this constant theroem and will not loose time, trying to explain to brainless peoples.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Just a personal comment: I tend automatically to filter out the luftwhining posts. I mean, the German aircraft are the most powerful, most well-designed, most easy to fly (pace landing in the 109), most fearsome aircraft in most flightsims (with exception of the Spitfire, natch!). They're generally awesome and popular.

 

And yet luftphiliacs always want more. Always. It's just a rule of the genre, and as such I accept it and ignore it. It's nothing to get hot and bothered about.

 

But I had to look up that quote of Maddox's that several people used as their sig back in ye olden times. It's still almost spiritual! "Pilots win dogfights. Not airplanes. If a pilot is not particularly good, regardless of a plane, he'll always have a sinking feeling that something somewhere is wrong... and not everyone is willing to admit that the fault lies within. - Oleg Maddox"

 

As Sir Robin said above, every aircraft I meet fills me with panic. But that's not because my plane's unhistorical - it's because I'm a bit crap at flying it! For what it's worth, I think the 190 is the best aeroplane in the game, and the most fun. . The Devs have shown that it's at least within a gnat's whisker of historical performance levels. What's not to love?

 

Well written, but i think there are one or two prejudgments to much. First of all this never ending "luftwhining" expression. What's with it? I really don't understand, why you have to use a term for people who gonna get FMs right, regardless what planes it concerns. What is the definition for a "luftwhiner"? I myself fly more Russian planes then German ones. Didn't play 1946, but in DCS (beta excluded) and in Clod (after modding) every FM seems alright. But in here it for sure doesn't.

Nobody wants more then historical accuracy. But if you choose a pre-Mustang-D, Spit9, La5Fn scenario you shouldn't blame the sims for "giving" the Germans the best aircraft. It's just a matter of fact that they had the best aircraft till those arrived. And the Devs took this particular scenario - Battle of Stalingrad - with the definite knowledge, that the German planes are leaps and bounds ahead of the Russian ones. That's just a fact of history. They could have chosen a scenario like late Kuban or Belarus, where the planes would be pretty much level in terms of performance. But they didn't! And now saying like you "the German planes are better then the other planes anyway, so i just ignore the people who want them even better [aka historical accuracy]" is not right in my opinion. To balance the planes, or in particular one (Yak) out, to get better "balance" is not the best solution in my opinion.

 

Now to your second prejudgment. Why do you guys always think, that only people want their planes better, who have problems in flying them? Who are "bad" in an multiplayer environment?

Let me tell you something. I stopped flying the 109 because i think it's to easy, just "sealclubbing". I have regularly 4-5 kills in one sortie, when i fly the 190. But most of the times i fly russians! Not, because i like their planes more, but because most of the time there are more planes on the German side, so to balance it out. Second of all, because it gives you more of a challenge and kills are much more worthy, because they are harder (not in the Yak). I fly mostly the La5, and i have a hard time in this aircraft to be honest..got shot down regularly, having hard time to get kills myself - but i want it that way!! Sometimes when Ru is outnumbered i take the Yak, and it's almost like flying the 109 again. I definitely don't want every Russian plane nerfed, i think the La5 and Lagg are OK (only a little bit overperforming), but the Yak is just another aircraft, feels more like a Yak1M prototyp (which i begin to fear the Devs use it's data). I don't even have fun flying the Yak, knowing i fly an aircraft, which was worse IRL. I just want historical accuracy. 

Calling me luftwhiner - i know you didn't say it directly, but i am sure you meant me amongst others - because of that is just a broad generalisation, "pigeonholing". 

 

I for myself can't wait to get an even field, with Yak9 and La5Fn, to get an (hopefully) balanced plane setup, without having to "balance" things.

[Leaf]

Celestiale, have you sent your data to Han?
Only that way will they look at it. Expecting them to trawl through 4 pages of what has been quite a colourful thread for little snippets of information is not worth their time, considering they've got other things to work on.

 

If you think you've found a mistake in their calculations, PM Han. It's been said many times before.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Celestiale, have you sent your data to Han?

Only that way will they look at it. Expecting them to trawl through 4 pages of what has been quite a colourful thread for little snippets of information is not worth their time, considering they've got other things to work on.

 

If you think you've found a mistake in their calculations, PM Han. It's been said many times before.

 

Not yet, because till i tested it yesterday, i didn't even know that the Yak is overperforming so clearly in speed at high altitude, my biggest concerns before have been it's roll rate and it's dive speed capability, and therefore i only have (mostly German) "anecdotal" evidence, which for sure doesn't care the Devs. But now knowing that it's also (still) overperforming enginewise, i will compile some tests, alongside the data, and sent it to Han (as i did it successfully with the 190 back in October). But this may take some days, because i also have "real life things" to do

[Wulf]

Just a personal comment: I tend automatically to filter out the luftwhining posts. I mean, the German aircraft are the most powerful, most well-designed, most easy to fly (pace landing in the 109), most fearsome aircraft in most flightsims (with exception of the Spitfire, natch!). They're generally awesome and popular.

 

And yet luftphiliacs always want more. Always. It's just a rule of the genre, and as such I accept it and ignore it. It's nothing to get hot and bothered about.

 

But I had to look up that quote of Maddox's that several people used as their sig back in ye olden times. It's still almost spiritual! "Pilots win dogfights. Not airplanes. If a pilot is not particularly good, regardless of a plane, he'll always have a sinking feeling that something somewhere is wrong... and not everyone is willing to admit that the fault lies within. - Oleg Maddox"

 

As Sir Robin said above, every aircraft I meet fills me with panic. But that's not because my plane's unhistorical - it's because I'm a bit crap at flying it! For what it's worth, I think the 190 is the best aeroplane in the game, and the most fun. . The Devs have shown that it's at least within a gnat's whisker of historical performance levels. What's not to love?

 

 

Yeah, I get the point about pilot competence but  what happens if the guy in the better of the two opposing aircraft is just as good as the guy in the obsolete aircraft?  What is the likely outcome in that scenario?   And what if the guy in the better aircraft is 'almost' as good as the guy in the obsolete machine?  What happens then?  What did Oleg have to say about that situation?

 

If you want to go off and fight Spitfire 9s in a Fok. D VII then I'll wish you all the best but I wouldn't give much for your chances quite frankly - no matter how good you think you are.   And personally, when I fly an A-3,  against a Yak 1, I want it to come with all of it's historical bells and whistles, not just some of them.

 

And as far as my own competence goes (just in case that's an issue), I have never claimed to be any good. I try and do the best I can in a 190 but I get shot down all the time.  Why I fly the thing I don't really know, I just like it.    Ultimately, I just want the thing to perform to its historical best.    

[StG2_Manfred]

.... For what it's worth, I think the 190 is the best aeroplane in the game, and the most fun. The Devs have shown that it's at least within a gnat's whisker of historical performance levels. What's not to love?

 

Like I did a couple of times before, I volunteer in a Yak, and you can proof your statement about the 190 and show me and all the whiners that it is the best plane in game.

[Chuck_Owl]

 

Here's a little something to put a smile on your face.

[FlatSpinMan]

Then maybe it would be better you make a second account, to troll around like the other guys. But from a moderator you definitely expect other..

This is my hobby, just as it is yours. I come here in the increasingly despairing hope of having a laugh and finding things of interest to me. Unfortunately the balance of forum participants seems to have shifted away from people who play and post for fun, but I digress.

 

Now had I made some aggressive or highly personal or even off-topic comment, well maybe I'd reconsider my words, but I will not do so in this case as it was a light-hearted comment on previous content in this thread, as well as a reference to similar discussions from the past.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

The Yak also has aerodynamical issues causing it not only to overperorm speed and climb wise but also in manouvres and stalls.

 

They can easily prop hang in the air vertically without entering a spin or regain spead marlevously during any manouvre. In a fullbdeflection scissor for example it wont lose speeds but actually accelerate.

 

Another situation that confirms it's aerodynamical issues is one every Fw190 pilot expiriences when diving away from a coalt yak.

 

While diving and flying straight at GL te Focke clearly leaves the yak behind. Both fly with constanmax speeds with the yak clearly lacking performance to keep up. When a disperency of 1-2 km has been established the focke pilot pulls up into a slight climb and forces the slower yak to follow him.

Outcome: Both end up coalt again, 190 is close to stall speed while yak can easily manouvre for a deflection shot -> 190 pilot rages on forum about bad 190s performance.

 

The only way to avoid this situation is to either stay in level flight and run with your 1750 horses like theres no tomorrow or carefully watch your enemy while climbing in a slight turn hoping him to do mistakes by cutting your corner.

 

If not, well same outcome.

 

Its narrow mnded to call the 190 superiour inly because it is faster at some alts. As long as fights are vertically it doesnt really matter much.

 

That aside i still haven found airfoil data on the yak, so i cant plot anything to prove what the real issue is.

 

As far as my assumptions go the yak should have more air resisence at high AoAs, but I guess no proof = no move.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[No601_Swallow]

Like I did a couple of times before, I volunteer in a Yak, and you can proof your statement about the 190 and show me and all the whiners that it is the best plane in game.

 

Dear oh dear.

 

Firstly, I'm frankly rubbish at this sim. I can't hit a barn door, and I rarely spot other aircraft until they spot me. It'd be embarrassing!

 

Secondly, that's beside the point. Even I know that the 190 isn't a dogfighting aeroplane. It's a killer. I'd maybe suggest a 2v2 or 4v4, but even that wouldn't be right, because as we all know, if the odds are even, you're not flying correctly. I'd volunteer a couple of frighteningly competent pilots in my squadron in my behalf (we've been going online on Friday evenings recently), but that'd be for them to take up.

 

But thirdly, it's about fun. I basically just love flying around in this sim because it feels so good (!), and occasionally, if I'm lucky, hitting other things with me guns. You know, playing the game.

 

As for the "luftwhiner" thing - sorry if it's "offensive" (I think it's a great invented word!), but it's just a shorthand for people who get boring on forums going on and on about why German aircraft X should be... well, I think we all know. Mustang fans and 50 cal worriers seem to come second, but it's a fairly distant second.

 

(Having said that though, Nemesis' youtube piece about the 190's armoured glass is still the gold standard, I think, about how concerns about aircraft can be addressed. It's a great and astounding piece of work!)

[StG2_Manfred]

Well, I just reply with my suggestion to the so often made statement, that the 190 is the best plane in game, or when I read 'you're not flying correctly'. I don't claim to be a perfect pilot, but apparently I do much better in the Yak, or in the 109.

 

I agree with you that the sim is fun, but it could be even more fun if the 190 would appear more plausible. I don't expect it to be the uber plane, don't get me wrong. Lessen that weird overdone highspeed stall and the artificially blocked front view, and a lot of the argument would be gone, I think.

 

And about Nemesis's gold standard. Also he proofed very profesionally that those bars are blocking the view way too much, it isn't corrected properly yet. It would be so easy, even without modelling refraction. They just need to make the bars thinner and admit pilots a reasonable vision. 

[von_Tom]

Well, I just reply with my suggestion to the so often made statement, that the 190 is the best plane in game, or when I read 'you're not flying correctly'. I don't claim to be a perfect pilot, but apparently I do much better in the Yak, or in the 109.

 

 

 

I don't like the phrase 'you're not flying correctly' but I do think a lot of the time it is right, or should maybe be interchanged with 'you're not fighting correctly.'   With the 190 these two are the same thing for me. 

 

I think most can do better with the Yak or 109 because they are better all round aircraft i.e. they can be fast, they can dive ok, they can turn ok and they can roll ok.  But there is less of an imperative to fight correctly, as often you have the chance to turn the tables or escape.  Make a mistake in the 190 and this is much much harder as I think it should be.  Nobody should turn to death in any plane and definitely not in a 190.

 

This was the same in old IL2 with some phenomenal kill/death ratios being racked up by 190 pilots.  After all, even if you see them coming you'll do anything to get out of the way of the cannon, and then your energy is down and they've zoomed off, with their wingman then coming in.  To a lesser extent you see the same now, with some 109 pilots in CloD racking up huge successes by fighting correctly.

 

Anyway, I'd take you up on your challenge but that'd have to be on my terms (my usual attack terms anyway) which is - you haven't seen me, I'm a lot higher than you and I hit you on my first pass.  Anything else - forget it.  But I'd much rather do jabo stuff with a big bomb as that gives me much more enjoyment.

 

 

von Tom

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I think most can do better with the Yak or 109 because they are better all round aircraft i.e. they can be fast, they can dive ok, they can turn ok and they can roll ok.  But there is less of an imperative to fight correctly, as often you have the chance to turn the tables or escape.  Make a mistake in the 190 and this is much much harder as I think it should be.  Nobody should turn to death in any plane and definitely not in a 190.

In reality it was the other way round. The 109 maybe had a chance to outclimb their enemies but rarely outdive them (this tactic was first viable against P-38 due to their cimpressebility issues). It was rather fragile, prone to engine damage and high demanding. It's a highly agressive plane and less effective in defence.

 

The 190 with it's phenominal roll rate on the other hand could escape anytime in a fast split S or outscissor the enemy. It's lwo altitude performance was superiour to the 109 either so dragging the dogfight down was way more viable in the 190.

 

It may not be a "good" turner due to it's high wing loading, but in general brought it's pilots home when a 109 didn't. Ingame this surely isn't the case [insert] WARNING This is anecdotal information. No numbers and figures can be provided to prove these claims [/insert]

Edited February 9, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[von_Tom]

 

I have no doubt about what you say in relation to what happened in reality. Especially when the 109 engine was less robust. But we just don't fly the same way virtually as they did in reality, so we have to be careful in comparisons.

 

Plus we don't have all the other real things to contend with - stick forces, G force, fear or stress etc.

 

von Tom

 

ps Maybe we need an anecdote emoticon.

 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Still the Focke Wulf could outmanouvre it's enemies quickly unlike the 109 with it's poor to mediocre roll rate. While the 109 had more capebilities to retain the fight it equally had less possebilities to get out of it. Vise versa counts for the Focke Wulf.

 

I'm no Fw 190 pro player either, nor do I pretent to be one. Of course I can have fun and sucess with it, especially if flying wiht squadmates in a Schwarm, but that doesn't make it any better. If I kill a 109 in my Lagg-3 I'm not automaticly flying the superiour plane.

 

Yea, guess they should introduce anecdotal emoticons so devs can sort those posts out more easily

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

Still the Focke Wulf could outmanouvre it's enemies quickly unlike the 109 with it's poor to mediocre roll rate. While the 109 had more capebilities to retain the fight it equally had less possebilities to get out of it. Vise versa counts for the Focke Wulf.

Agreed 100%

[Solmyr]

While diving and flying straight at GL te Focke clearly leaves the yak behind. Both fly with constanmax speeds with the yak clearly lacking performance to keep up. When a disperency of 1-2 km has been established the focke pilot pulls up into a slight climb and forces the slower yak to follow him. Outcome: Both end up coalt again, 190 is close to stall speed while yak can easily manouvre for a deflection shot -> 190 pilot rages on forum about bad 190s performance.

 

 

A bit exagerated to my mind, but I have to admit if one thing intrigants me a little about the 190, that's this phenomena. BUT, I'm a very poor 190 pilot, very few training with her at this moment, and I'm pretty sure a part from the overall obvious tactics to use with her, I'm really bad in it.

 

On a side note, I can say that while Yak pilot, I have some rules, like plenty other ones, to not follow a 190 in a boring way. Pretty dangerous if the 190 pilot is good, and pretty surely useless. However, if I detect (or believe to) that this 190 pilot is gonna do a fault, I likely 6 him a few seconds more. And I see this often : the guys tend to forget how to use their strenghs, fall into traps, have to much concerns when they shouldn't, etc... Almost every time I shoot down a 190, it's this way !

 

A part from this, it's almost impossible to shoot down a 190 on rather equal terms. And the beast is pretty durable.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Solmyr

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

A part from this, it's almost impossible to shoot down a 190 on rather equal terms. And the beast is pretty durable.

Really? Manfred, you have another candidate!

 

Seriously though believe me, the only thign the Fw pilot can do to save his skin is run when fighting a yak on equal terms. I remember me fighting a 190 being 1 km above me. I slowly climbed after him, he saw and BnZ me. I always saw him coming, evaded him with a short and sharp turn and imedently continued climbing whenever he passed me. He at least had 3 attemts before he finally had to run because I was above him.

And no, he hadn't done any crucial errors to this point. He just expected the 190 to win against a historically weaker oppoment.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[JtD]

Seriously though believe me, the only thign the Fw pilot can do to save his skin is run when fighting a yak on equal terms.

I disagree. He could also get a wingman.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

The Yak also has aerodynamical issues causing it not only to overperorm speed and climb wise but also in manouvres and stalls.

 

They can easily prop hang in the air vertically without entering a spin or regain spead marlevously during any manouvre. In a fullbdeflection scissor for example it wont lose speeds but actually accelerate.

 

Another situation that confirms it's aerodynamical issues is one every Fw190 pilot expiriences when diving away from a coalt yak.

 

While diving and flying straight at GL te Focke clearly leaves the yak behind. Both fly with constanmax speeds with the yak clearly lacking performance to keep up. When a disperency of 1-2 km has been established the focke pilot pulls up into a slight climb and forces the slower yak to follow him.

Outcome: Both end up coalt again, 190 is close to stall speed while yak can easily manouvre for a deflection shot -> 190 pilot rages on forum about bad 190s performance.

 

The only way to avoid this situation is to either stay in level flight and run with your 1750 horses like theres no tomorrow or carefully watch your enemy while climbing in a slight turn hoping him to do mistakes by cutting your corner.

 

If not, well same outcome.

 

Its narrow mnded to call the 190 superiour inly because it is faster at some alts. As long as fights are vertically it doesnt really matter much.

 

That aside i still haven found airfoil data on the yak, so i cant plot anything to prove what the real issue is.

 

As far as my assumptions go the yak should have more air resisence at high AoAs, but I guess no proof = no move.

I disagree, once you have a slight E advantage in level flight pitch to 325 kph(normal/indicated on the hud) and continue to outclimb them indefinitely. They will try to trade alt for airspeed in a sinewave a few times, get off a couple of shots while zoom climbing, and then permanently fall away. Works (almost) every time. Don't pitch up higher than the 325 or the lighter Yak will outclimb you. 325 is the sweet spot. I get called a chicken but I'm usually a live chicken not a dead turn fighter.

 

I did start using combat flaps against a Yak yesterday and found I could deploy them briefly for a tracking shot without giving up much speed. Normally I am a true BNZ'r.

Edited February 9, 2015 by HerrMurf

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I disagree. He could also get a wingman.

That has never been questionioned. Talking about 1vs1 my statement remains true, I you feel otherwise PM Manfred (and make me more rich - I always bet on Manfred!).

 

Also pls mind the context of what I'm writing. Having a wingman does not make up for bad performance but competition, which again is out of question.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[DD_Arthur]

These threads are becoming more and more laughable.