Multiplayer needs help .

[KoN_]

Hi all 

 

I fly online most of the time , and i can say it needs some love , at the moment it like flying aorund in a ghost town , sure there are players online , but nothing is happening , to get some sort of engagment you have to fly to the enemys airfield and wait for some poor dude to take off and hit him were it hurts .

For me and im sure there are others that feel the same , this isnt what multipalyer is all about .

We need Ai air frames doing important missions like --- Bombing , Escort , CAS , CAP ---  the list is endless .

Its a masive map i patrolled the front line twice and didnt see one enemy fighter , at the time there were 18 players online , people are disconnecting all the time , you need to fill in the boredom quick .

 

This is not a dig at any one . i love flying but please add Ai for us to hunt down and kill , give the community some thing to aim for  like  ...

medals .

point system.

stats .

give it some life  please .

Edited February 5, 2015 by II./JG77_Con

[Leaf]

I know there are some that don't like AI, but with a map the size of Stalingrad, below a certain playercount flying just becomes a dull "spot the dot, wipe the screen" exercise. I think AI, especially once the Ju 52 comes along, would help mitigate that issue.

[wellenbrecher]

Aborted tested this during Beta with the Eagle's Nest.

Even having ten AI 111 on the server would nearly bring it to its knees whereas it was fine handling 60 players at any given time. Sure that was with an old DServer, but since it's similar in RoF to this day - or so I've been told - I don't think the engine really can handle large AI formations in MP.

 

 

Or maybe it's only the 111 because it has the most crew of any planes in the game currently?

[Dakpilot]

Testing going on here

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12390-operations-server-ongoing-testing/page-2

 

Read whole thread to get better idea

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[KoN_]

Read the thread but i dont see any operations server up .

normally see ..list below

Syndicate Squadron Wings Of Liberty -DED- Normal - Fresh Meat Server

ect .

[Dakpilot]

It is being tested and tweaked,when a test session is being done it is usually put up in that thread

 

cheers Dakpiot

[LizLemon]

Aborted tested this during Beta with the Eagle's Nest.

Even having ten AI 111 on the server would nearly bring it to its knees whereas it was fine handling 60 players at any given time. Sure that was with an old DServer, but since it's similar in RoF to this day - or so I've been told - I don't think the engine really can handle large AI formations in MP.

 

 

Or maybe it's only the 111 because it has the most crew of any planes in the game currently?

So I guess this doesn't bode well for ju-52 online.

[Habu]

I run test with Ai mission and french last Wednesday and it runs well. I don't remember how many players we have. During my tests, i have to delete one flight of He 111. I have two he 111 flight with 7 planes each, and when the second is activated, i have some micro freeze (i was alone on the server). So, i choose to put only one flight with aleatory waypoint. In addition to HE111 AI, there are some russian planes.

 

The mission is almost finish and should be avaliable soon. In that mission i introduce Recon mission.

 

 

If you read french, you can have a feedback on that link :

http://www.checksix-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=437&t=188811

Edited February 6, 2015 by Habu

[ZaknafeinTV]

What BoS MP needs ?

 

I think simple mission 15 to 30 min, when  5 vs 5 pleyers do a simple mission. For example one team defend 3 bomber, second atack, etc, etc. When you add to this map with sectors, or random players draw system based on rank, or playing with friends.

 

People in the world play 16 years in this way in Counter Strike so why not try this in combat simmulators ?

 

For me maps on syndicate servers or ded servers are too big special when there is only 45 players, you fly and you are looking, and looking, and looking...

 

 

... after 30min later ...

 

 

...boom you are dead because someone attacked from above, its not funny, and boring. 

Edited February 6, 2015 by Zaknafein

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Yes MP needs some TLC (Tender Loving Care) .... perhaps with the release of the ME in April or May we will see a renaissance of mission building and a wealth of MP play. One can only hope. 

 

Chief

[Willy__]

  I think simple mission 15 to 30 min, when  5 vs 5 pleyers do a simple mission. For example one team defend 3 bomber, second atack, etc, etc. When you add to this map with sectors, or random players draw system based on rank, or playing with friends.   People in the world play 16 years in this way in Counter Strike so why not try this in combat simmulators ?   For me maps on syndicate servers or ded servers are too big special when there is only 45 players, you fly and you are looking, and looking, and looking...     ... after 30min later ...     ...boom you are dead because someone attacked from above, its not funny, and boring. 

 

That type of mission may be appealing for you, but I'm sure there are people that wont like it, and I'm one of them. I rather have the big map with a lot of time to play on (3 to 5 hours a single missions), than these 15 to 30 min matches with 10 people. Come to think about it, its the same model that war thunder has.

 

But as much as I dont like, I respect your opinion and if there are people looking for this type of gameplay, why not have it ? I always think that the more options we have, the better. But I do think the way the missions are set up on syndicate or ded server are at least well thought for what we have now, there are objectives and the bases are far apart. I`ve seen furballs at low at, people chasing a group of 5 or more IL2s, and I even participated on a high alt fight involving 6 yaks and 4 109s, above 7000m meters. The point is, the server is there with a mission to complete (the objectives), but you can choose do it or not, its up to you. About looking and not finding anyone... maybe you are looking at the wrong spots... 

Edited February 7, 2015 by istruba

[Habu]

What BoS MP needs ?

 

I think simple mission 15 to 30 min, when  5 vs 5 pleyers do a simple mission. For example one team defend 3 bomber, second atack, etc, etc. When you add to this map with sectors, or random players draw system based on rank, or playing with friends.

 

People in the world play 16 years in this way in Counter Strike so why not try this in combat simmulators ?

 

For me maps on syndicate servers or ded servers are too big special when there is only 45 players, you fly and you are looking, and looking, and looking...

 

 

... after 30min later ...

 

 

...boom you are dead because someone attacked from above, its not funny, and boring. 

You already have that kind of mission with official dogfight server. Airfiled are closed and you don't have to search opposent. You can't have cooperative mission with that kind of time. Most of the bomber need that time to reach high altitude. Mission builder don't take time to build such a mission where the goal is a simple dogfight. I don't want to spend many hours on a mission where objective will be only to make nice, because they don't have time to achieve them.

[No601_Swallow]

We were in the DED-Expert server last night. Being a coop-ish squadron, we always have an objective, and the DED server allows for that. First we took off in Jabo 190s, with escort to bomb a factory/warehouses deep behind enemy lines (I got my target but was enjoying it so much that I allowed myself to get bounced as I was climbing out.) After that we fragmented a bit. I took another 500 kg bomb and set off to find a bridge. This was a solo navigation exercise really. The satisfaction was in finding what I was looking for. When I got there the bridge had already been destroyed! Not only that, the flak got me as I was looping back round - lazy again. I then took a resupply He111 and flew a resupply trip into a small airfield near the front line.

 

In all that time, the only enemy aircraft I encountered was the unseen one that bounced me. I never dog-fighted (dog-fought??) with anyone. But even so, it was lovely and immensely satisfying. Even the scoreboard, registering my two deaths, also gave me 5 explosive points for hitting something with my beumb.

 

It all depends on what each individual wants, of course. For guaranteed furballs, I suppose servers with smaller maps (the Lapino or Novi-thingy map) would be the way to go - or fly a "normal" server. The thing is, even with the limited options available right now, I think there's plenty to do, so long as you have the right people to do it with. Finding the right Teamspeak channel would help too.

Edited February 7, 2015 by No601_Swallow

[Dakpilot]

Read the thread but i dont see any operations server up .

normally see ..list below

Syndicate Squadron Wings Of Liberty -DED- Normal - Fresh Meat Server

ect .

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12390-operations-server-ongoing-testing/?p=228983

 

Testing tonight on Operations-server

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Feathered_IV]

Sounds like BoS needs a sort of zombie AI for Ju-52 and such like. One that will allow many aircraft to operate without breaking the server. Two flights of seven is extremely weak.

[Habu]

Sounds like BoS needs a sort of zombie AI for Ju-52 and such like. One that will allow many aircraft to operate without breaking the server. Two flights of seven is extremely weak.

I forgot to say that i have several russian flight at the same time. Maybe 8 or 10 russian.

[wellenbrecher]

Given the size of the map that's still weak. I really appreciate your effort and hope we'll get anything bordering on interesting in size eventually but at the moment that's weak.

Considering I can boot up a different game that's from 2011 and go ballistic on 30+ German bombers in two or three formations while also having the risk of a dozen players in 109s hunting me while at the same time there's also some friendly bombers formations in the sky that I could choose to escort to France.

[ZaknafeinTV]

Im not talking about dogfight server. I was mean co-op servers when winning or loosing is depend on how much you are doing a task or how much you cooperate with team-mates.

 

Maybe someone of you have time fly 3-5 hours on server and do nothing.

 

Even Loft write:

3) The most popular players game mode mode Quick Mission was eventually mission at least 30 minutes (the vast majority). Now the average time mission in the CPB, all the players and all the missions in the world since the fall of 12 minutes (in the campaign).

Edited February 7, 2015 by Zaknafein

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

I wonder if the MP player count would increase if we were able to unlock modifications from online matches.

 

I was also hoping for increase of action when the AI Ju-52 arrives but as stated before the servers cant handle too many AI. I think a flyable Ju-52 + unlocks online would bring allot of cool missions and online players. Why? Because the amount of missions would be pretty cool. Imaging that form the german side there would be 15 Ju-52 to fly and 5 Bf-105/Fw-290 and on the russian side there would be 20+ only fighters. Players would have to cooperate between each other to win and you would get XP and having a feeling of accomplishing things as you unlock a new skin. Also get more people to fly Ju-52 by giving them more XP by each successful mission.

 

The MP got a huge potential. We just need to get the assets and missions to increase the value of MP. All hope for the MP is on the devs side. 

[Habu]

Im not talking about dogfight server. I was mean co-op servers when winning or loosing is depend on how much you are doing a task or how much you cooperate with team-mates.

 

Maybe someone of you have time fly 3-5 hours on server and do nothing.

 

Even Loft write:

You talk about multiplayer and you use an answer from zak who talk about SP. You don't have to fly 3-5 hours, in one hour you can have a real flight (it depends of the front line from your airfield).

 

Tell me how you could have a coop with a time round of 20-30 min. Describe me exactly the mission, which kind of plane you use, etc..

[ShamrockOneFive]

What about ground vehicles. Are large groups of moving tanks problematic as well?

 

I think Multiplayer will be a better experience when we get the Dedicated Server and Full Mission Builder released. We're waiting on that over at Battlefields and then I think we'll try and run a server. Probably use the same kind of format we have in the past. Ground targets for both teams with a race to complete the objectives. Focuses the action over certain parts of the map and keeps things interesting.

[KoN_]

I was thinking along the lines of 3 hour missions , with goals , just like another server we all know about that is always populated and has been for a very long time , with good bomber missions , and fighter escort , who wins the map red or blue , ect .ect  its a start .

[Habu]

What about ground vehicles. Are large groups of moving tanks problematic as well?

 

I think Multiplayer will be a better experience when we get the Dedicated Server and Full Mission Builder released. We're waiting on that over at Battlefields and then I think we'll try and run a server. Probably use the same kind of format we have in the past. Ground targets for both teams with a race to complete the objectives. Focuses the action over certain parts of the map and keeps things interesting.

Yes a large group of tank could be a problem (my buddy tried a mission with a large amount of tank, and players report small freeze. I can't tell you how many there are because i monitored the server during the mission, and i didn't open the mission in the editor). If you are confident to RoF mission builder, you know there are two state for object. Basic which is like decor and Entity. An entity is an object with AI, and/or which can interact. So it ask more ressources for entities. If you are a futur mission builder, keep in mind that two states, it will help you to understand the Mission Editor.

 

For information, in my mission with AI, there are 12 russian fighters and 2 Recon PE2. So, in the mission there are 21 AI active, 20 minutes after the begining of the mission. There are renforcement for russian fighter which are activated when sveno are damaged or destroyed. The mission will be online sooner. I did some addition and modification based on the feedback of players. I want to test the new version, and if it's ok, i will put it online. Your feedback will be welcome.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Habu

[ZaknafeinTV]

 

 

Tell me how you could have a coop with a time round of 20-30 min. Describe me exactly the mission, which kind of plane you use, etc..

 

 

Small map, when you go out over the map, yours plane is exploding (possible in rof  ) or what we have now when you go over map.

 

Shaped diamond map, for one airfield in the corner for the team, in the middle of the map two (also one or three) simple task, like search and destroy artillery, or tanks or whatever. Flight time to the middle of map should be between 5-7min. Planes should be all, players decide what they need.

 

Simple rules:

 

-when you die you have to wait until the end of the round (very important)

-yours team win if completion all tasks

-time-limited mission 25-30min

 

and that is all i hope

 

Im not specialist about creating a mission, i have no time to do this but i try when mission builder shows up. Hope this is not to much complicated, everything should be checked in terms of time, and the gameplay should be balanced.

 

I hope people will like it.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Zaknafein

[Habu]

Have you tried the official server on lapino. During the alpha we have access only to lapino with two airfield close and a very short time. Most of the people i playe with don't like that. When you have a short distance between two airfield, there is only vulching and dogfight. Bomber can't reach hight altitude and must stay at low altitude. Nobody search the objective because you don't have time to organise a flight with so short time. If i took your plan with two or more people with TS:

 

1- Take off fighter : 1-2 min

2- Fighter will wait that bomber take off 1-2 min

3- Taking time to fly in formation : 2-3 min

4- Going to the mission objective according to the time you gave : 5-7 min (which mean a direct flight which is not the safer). 

5- Searching objective : 5-10 min

 

So at the end, nobody will use bomber because there are already dead, and fighters will go faster in the middle. So you have a dogfight where objectives is only an excuse to not call that game a dogfight.

 

You'll see with your own mission when the mission editor will be release, but don't expect to see many people. Have a look on the server, there is no one on officiel server which provide only dogfight. They are used only for test.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Habu

[KoN_]

So are we saying that we have gone backwards in flight siming and its online game play ,  as we cant still produce a flight sim in 2014  equel or better than il-2 1946 . With a decent and easy setup in mission builder to fly coop or 80+ human campaign  flying in a given space .

Edited February 8, 2015 by II./JG77_Con

[ShamrockOneFive]

Yes a large group of tank could be a problem (my buddy tried a mission with a large amount of tank, and players report small freeze. I can't tell you how many there are because i monitored the server during the mission, and i didn't open the mission in the editor). If you are confident to RoF mission builder, you know there are two state for object. Basic which is like decor and Entity. An entity is an object with AI, and/or which can interact. So it ask more ressources for entities. If you are a futur mission builder, keep in mind that two states, it will help you to understand the Mission Editor.

 

For information, in my mission with AI, there are 12 russian fighters and 2 Recon PE2. So, in the mission there are 21 AI active, 20 minutes after the begining of the mission. There are renforcement for russian fighter which are activated when sveno are damaged or destroyed. The mission will be online sooner. I did some addition and modification based on the feedback of players. I want to test the new version, and if it's ok, i will put it online. Your feedback will be welcome.

Very useful information! Thanks!

 

I don't know the RoF editor but I expect with the BoS one comes along I'll figure it out eventually. Entity and Basic sound like static objects vs their moving counterparts in IL-2. In the early days we really had to be careful about numbers of AI activated objects. Even stationary artillery with nothing to shoot at consumed resources but their stationary counterparts were fine. I imagine we'll have to be clever like that again.

So are we saying that we have gone backwards in flight siming and its online game play ,  as we cant still produce a flight sim in 2014  equel or better than il-2 1946 . With a decent and easy setup in mission builder to fly coop or 80+ human campaign  flying in a given space .

What were you hoping for the system to be able to do?

 

This is usually what happens is the complexity goes up so the numbers of objects we can do goes down. IL-2 Forgotten Battles in the early days was very limited. We had 20 player servers with a dozen AAA batteries and bunches of static objects pushing the limits of what the server could handle. Years later with faster CPUs and more memory it wasn't so big a deal (although large AI bomber formations still bring the server to its knees). I think we're further ahead this time around although I'm sure we'll still have to be very careful.

[wtornado]

I doubt very much I could make a IL-2 1946 Co-oP style mission with this game that resembled

a standard IL-2 HSFX or UP 3.0 Co-oP with my standard 20 planes that could have 20 human

pilots or fly like a single mission with me flying by myself  or 2-3 pilots with ZERO lag.

 

We will see.

[wtornado]

Hi all 

 

I fly online most of the time , and i can say it needs some love , at the moment it like flying aorund in a ghost town , sure there are players online , but nothing is happening , to get some sort of engagment you have to fly to the enemys airfield and wait for some poor dude to take off and hit him were it hurts .

For me and im sure there are others that feel the same , this isnt what multipalyer is all about .

We need Ai air frames doing important missions like --- Bombing , Escort , CAS , CAP ---  the list is endless .

Its a masive map i patrolled the front line twice and didnt see one enemy fighter , at the time there were 18 players online , people are disconnecting all the time , you need to fill in the boredom quick .

 

This is not a dig at any one . i love flying but please add Ai for us to hunt down and kill , give the community some thing to aim for  like  ...

medals .

point system.

stats .

give it some life  please .

That is all I see most of the time is pilots waiting for me to take off and bounce me at 300m and bring me down.

 

Try flying a bomber under that condition it is out of the freaking question!

 

Very exciting.

 

I am still laughing at the vulchers thread and people agreeing that it is ok to vulch.

 

Some poor newbie sucker buys the game gets shot down 50 times over his own base taking off and never comes back haha.

 

You see some of them come in get shot down 3 times over their base and leave.

 

Sometimes I swear people like digging holes deep to throw this game in and bury it so that no one will come and play.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I doubt very much I could make a IL-2 1946 Co-oP style mission with this game that resembled

a standard IL-2 HSFX or UP 3.0 Co-oP with my standard 20 planes that could have 20 human

pilots or fly like a single mission with me flying by myself  or 2-3 pilots with ZERO lag.

 

We will see.

Good point. I'm not at all sure how you'd build a coop style mission in the online environment that I've seen so far. It sounds like a IL-2 dogfight server.

[wtornado]

Good point. I'm not at all sure how you'd build a coop style mission in the online environment that I've seen so far. It sounds like a IL-2 dogfight server.

I know that is why I am praying that someone in a dark basement with a case of vodka and canned food is writing new coding so that any user

can start a server and play Co-oP,dogfight missions with a shiney new FMB

Edited February 8, 2015 by WTornado

[[DBS]Tx_Tip]

Good point. I'm not at all sure how you'd build a coop style mission in the online environment that I've seen so far. It sounds like a IL-2 dogfight server.

Just from flying on the various servers. Many have a limited number of certain A/C available at certain Bases. Aircraft can be spawned into on the runway. I do not know wether you can set an air spawn within the up-coming Editor. Probably though. A Coop would incorporate these to the extreme. I'm thinking we will only be limited by our own imagination as well puter power. As you said Shamrock, we will definitely need to be clever.

 

Great discussion. Thanks for the insights Habu.

Edited February 8, 2015 by [DBS]Tx_Tip

[SCG_Neun]

For an exciting mission...you need a FOG OF WAR effect, without aircraft in the air...AAA on the ground in any realistic numbers for a front this large...the game doesn't have the ability to simulate the Stalingrad..Eastern Front, and without that....I'm afraid we have a problem....In other words...the "pucker factor" is missing.......You can make more maps and more planes....and I certainly welcome that the same as anybody....but...

Edited February 8, 2015 by JagdNeun

[BlitzPig_EL]

I have not been online in this sim like I used to be in '46, mostly because my old computer build simply would fall to it's knees when more than 4 or 5 aircraft were near me.

Now I have fixed that problem, but it seems my fears about the online environment in BoS, that is, it would be like the sterile, under populated world of RoF, is the reality of it.

 

It seems what we have it Rise of Flight, with a WW2 skin over it.

 

And yes, it is sad that I can, and have, built online missions for '46 that have multiple flights of AI bombers and transports, fighters doing sweeps, VERY large tank battles with truck columms running all over the roads, and an aircraft carrier steaming in the med with her escorts that is for those that want to fly FAA/USN theatre appropriate aircraft, and it just works, but now we have a NEW sim that cannot support two flights of AI bombers.

 

So sad.   Half of the BlitzPigs and our friends that purchased BoS recently, have binned it already.

 

BoS needed to be a home run, not only for us hard core guys here on the forum, but for the genre over all.  Unfortunately, what we got was a forfeited test match (to mix my US and UK sports metaphores).

 

Jason, we want your sim to be "the one", please make that happen.

Edited February 8, 2015 by BlitzPig_EL

[Hawgdog]

Release to playstation3, or Xbox? 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Release to playstation3, or Xbox? 

 

 

Port it to console?

 

What ever for?

[Hawgdog]

To increase the player base, I see when games go to console the uptick in community is huge.

It would get this game to the masses. 

I think you'd have to tweak it for the controllers, but thats easy enough, no?

[ShamrockOneFive]

I have not been online in this sim like I used to be in '46, mostly because my old computer build simply would fall to it's knees when more than 4 or 5 aircraft were near me.

Now I have fixed that problem, but it seems my fears about the online environment in BoS, that is, it would be like the sterile, under populated world of RoF, is the reality of it.

 

It seems what we have it Rise of Flight, with a WW2 skin over it.

 

And yes, it is sad that I can, and have, built online missions for '46 that have multiple flights of AI bombers and transports, fighters doing sweeps, VERY large tank battles with truck columms running all over the roads, and an aircraft carrier steaming in the med with her escorts that is for those that want to fly FAA/USN theatre appropriate aircraft, and it just works, but now we have a NEW sim that cannot support two flights of AI bombers.

 

So sad.   Half of the BlitzPigs and our friends that purchased BoS recently, have binned it already.

 

BoS needed to be a home run, not only for us hard core guys here on the forum, but for the genre over all.  Unfortunately, what we got was a forfeited test match (to mix my US and UK sports metaphores).

 

Jason, we want your sim to be "the one", please make that happen.

 

Remember... IL-2 Sturmovik and Forgotten Battles had very similar if not exactly the same problems when we started off. Heck, we didn't even get moving objects like aircraft and moving tanks in dogfight servers until the last 4-5 years.

 

I'm going to sound like a broken record. This sim has some serious growing pains right now and it desperately needs that mission builder and dedicated server software to be out.

To increase the player base, I see when games go to console the uptick in community is huge.

It would get this game to the masses. 

I think you'd have to tweak it for the controllers, but thats easy enough, no?

Can you think of any simulators or similarly complex games that have made the transition?

[Habu]

Just from flying on the various servers. Many have a limited number of certain A/C available at certain Bases. Aircraft can be spawned into on the runway. I do not know wether you can set an air spawn within the up-coming Editor. Probably though. A Coop would incorporate these to the extreme. I'm thinking we will only be limited by our own imagination as well puter power. As you said Shamrock, we will definitely need to be clever.

 

Great discussion. Thanks for the insights Habu.

I can't tell all i know because i am under NDA, but i can tell you that if you know the RoF editor, you know the BoS editor. So Most of the thing you can do with Rof editor, you can do it with BoS editor. And yes, aicraft can spawn or activate in the air or on the airfield. As you can see on some online mission, on airfield, Ai can start like Player, from runway or parking.

 

There is two state for using AI object such as plane. The command Spawn and the command Activate.

 

Spawn : The entity, or the group can respawn as you want at the spawn point. The great limitation is that every planes or objects work alone not like a team. So you have to define a waypoint to every plane.

 

Activate : The entity or the group can be activate from its starting point juste once. But they work as a group.

 

 

With RoF we reduce many object from the map. We don't use all the town, because we know that plane never fly to an area. With BoS, the speed of the plane do that you can travel more km than a WW1 plane. So it's up to the mission builder to put all or just a part of the town. If you don't use town, there is a substract on the map which show the position of the town. It's a solution even if i don't like it. Another one is to activate and deactivate entity when there are players or Ai in their area. As Shamrock said, we have to be clever, and there are some trick we used since RoF, that we will share if you don't know when the ME will be release.

 

If you want to have a taste of the tool, use the free version of RoF, and download the Mission editor documentation from RoF. It's not up to date, but it will provide you many usefull information.

http://www.777studios.net/ROF_Guides/ROF_Mission_Editor_User_Manual.zip

 

A link to the mission editor lesson :

http://riseofflight.com/en/community/usefulmaterials/lessons

 

If you read french, here is a link to a tutorial from a budy. I learn the Rof mission edtor thanks to that tutorial :

http://www.checksix-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=400&t=154483

 

You can read that the RoF mission editor is very difficult. It's not true. But as every Mission editor you have to learn it. The RoF/BoS mission editor is like photoshop. When you open it, you said it's difficult, but after sometimes, you see that you have many possibility than another programm don't provide you. So, take the time to learn the basis and the logic of the tool, and you could do very interresting things. And for information i never understand the ME from IL2, but i don't take time either, because i didn't want to build mission for IL2. There is many informations on the RoF mission editor that you have now, that we don't have at the release of RoF. And there are many people who know it and who share their knowledge. So, don't be afraid by the ME, and take time to understand it.

 

@Blitzpig_El : re read what i wrotte there are more than 2 AI flight, and please don't compare to IL2, Il2 was at the same state when it was release, but many forgot it. We started playing IL2 with 56k and more than ten years later, we have connexion and PC which are very different from the one we have at the release of Il2, and i don't talk about IL2 1946.

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

True enough Shamrock, (like the call sign change BTW), but even in the earliest days, IL2 was fun, that simply cannot be said for BoS in it's current state.

 

And perhaps I am wrong, but 777 is not re-inventing the wheel here, unlike IL2, they started with a known quantity game engine, that they built in the first place.

Having years of experience with the DN engine, one would think that a "new" sim based on it would not have the same bugs/limitations that the original release had years ago.

 

But I guess looking at things with a critical mind and open eyes is no longer de rigeuer in our modern world.

Edited February 8, 2015 by BlitzPig_EL