71st_AH_Hooves Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Man I really like it. But if it not splittable than it won't help me. neither a center or sidestick simpit setup will work with this.
=OPS=Tantal Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 One question - is the fire trigger single stage or two stage ??.
Wuerger Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 Looks pretty good, but will there will be a left-handed version? Was there a lefthanded version in real life?
Valdamar Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) but will there will be a left-handed version? Nope, left hand is on Engine control, right one at the grip. Edited April 10, 2015 by Valdamar
Valdamar Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 One question - is the fire trigger single stage or two stage ??. Single stage, as it was on IRL grip.
Zmaj76 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Would this one be available for EU market and what would be the price?
Sokol1 Posted April 13, 2015 Author Posted April 13, 2015 Is said that will be available in EU and USA - price estimated ~90$, ETA Q3/4 2015.
Zmaj76 Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 Is said that will be available in EU and USA - price estimated ~90$, ETA Q3/4 2015. thanks for the info
LLv24_Zami Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Wow, thats a nice looking joystick and very low price. I am interested for sure.
SYN_Mike77 Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Currently I have a Thrustmaster T16000 stick with the Hal sensors. How will this stick compare in accuracy to the T16000?
Valdamar Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Currently I have a Thrustmaster T16000 stick with the Hal sensors. How will this stick compare in accuracy to the T16000? Linked your question to the developers: http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2579-gladiator-novyj-byudzhetnyj-dzhoj-ot-vkb/?p=288660 1
SYN_Mike77 Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 Thanks Valdamar! Looking forward to the answer! That stick looks awesome.
Sokol1 Posted April 17, 2015 Author Posted April 17, 2015 Currently I have a Thrustmaster T16000 stick with the Hal sensors. How will this stick compare in accuracy to the T16000? On "paper", the Njoy32 USB controller and digital MarS sensor are more refined than the cheap USB controller and Melex 3D sensor (3$) on TM.16000M (same of Warthog). MarS sensor has been denvelop/refined over more than 10 years. The question is, using these actual 12 bits or more contrtollers resolution, means that a movement of ~0.03mm in joystick grip will be registered be controller, but our hands are able to notice this? So, more than in electronics the question X versus Y precision will depend more on joystick gimbal construction or how precise is this, if have play or deadzone (mechanical). Since both products depends of the "China factor(ies)" is need await the final product to see. I bet on VKB project, after all VKB guys are simmers.
Rjel Posted April 18, 2015 Posted April 18, 2015 Was there a lefthanded version in real life? So true. But as much as we want to pretend we're virtual pilots, that's all it is. Please don't tell me I can train myself to fly right handed. Thanks but I'm not interested in that. I get to use tools, equipment and even simple household items like scissors right handed. This is a hobby to me, not something I wish to add further frustrations to everyday life. And honestly, if you or any of our other right handed brethren are so inclined, please fly left handed for a couple of weeks and come back and tell us all how enjoyable it was. 1
Sokol1 Posted April 29, 2015 Author Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) Attention - this drawing is not confirmed changes in the Gladiator project, is a study of simmers feedback/wishes about Gladiator project, so don't mean that are viable. BTW - What consumers want and what producers can do is not necessarily the same (look at... BoS ). Gladiator "STANDARD" Gladiator "PRO" Gladiator "EXPERT" Edited April 29, 2015 by Sokol1
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Interesting drawings. I get this is not official but neverthanless the 3rd setup seems very unpractical to me if you have your stick resting on your desk. Unfortunately my very trustworthy X52 Pro broke recently and is out of buisness so I will keep tracking
JG27_Chivas Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 This stick could be a very good option for those concerned about not finding the switches etc while blind in VR. Being able to see their Hotas seems to be a big concern for some people, but I personally think it wouldn't be a problem with a few minutes of practice. 1
-TBC-AeroAce Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Its not the hotas I'm worried about in terms of vr but the keyboard
Wuerger Posted May 16, 2015 Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) Would prefer twice the price and double quality. Saitek Rhino X 55 was a great disappointment so far. Can't see any alternative. VKB Gladiator, hm, what can we expect for 100 $?? Edited May 16, 2015 by Wuerger
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 That approach is completely wrong. The point of Gladiator is not to go at the expense of quality, but try to approach highest possible quality with lowest possible price. I see no reason to expect them making a bad stick because the price is only 100 $. I have Cobra M5 which was designed by VKB and cant complain on it, my brother has the Rhino X 55 and after some comparison ... i would throw Rhino out the window, keeping only the throttle (which is actually good, unlike the stick). Anyway, Sokol, any news on Gladiator ?
elephant Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) I'm so very interested in the Gladiator! It would make a fine Xmas gift! Edited May 20, 2015 by elephant
Sokol1 Posted May 21, 2015 Author Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Looks that are concentrated in two versions, a basic joy w/throttle/twist rudder with 3 mode for HAT and 16 buttons: http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=26809 Looks like this version is able to control a external rudder pedal with 3 axis. And the PRO, a "monoblock" (probable like original design) with more controls - this one will have encoders (Japanese) that will allow trim with rotaries in BoS (as no axis option). Use quality components not necessarily "double" the price, but using cheap ones - like "0,10$" pot' (that killed the G-940) used by big corporations increase his profit. Edited May 21, 2015 by Sokol1
Wuerger Posted May 22, 2015 Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) That approach is completely wrong. The point of Gladiator is not to go at the expense of quality, but try to approach highest possible quality with lowest possible price. I see no reason to expect them making a bad stick because the price is only 100 $. Well the reason is quite simple: John Ruskin already taught us in the 19th century There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider Price alone are that person's lawful prey. It is unwise to pay too much, but it is also unwise to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money, that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything because the thing you bought is incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do. The common law of Business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot So If I regard my disappointment with the X-55 I fear we will get another toy... Edited May 22, 2015 by Wuerger
303_Kwiatek Posted May 22, 2015 Posted May 22, 2015 Nice project but i see two minus : - no force fedbeck - not many buttons on the head of stick ( i think more buttons in head is better then many buttons at the bottom)
SYN_Vander Posted May 22, 2015 Posted May 22, 2015 On "paper", the Njoy32 USB controller and digital MarS sensor are more refined than the cheap USB controller and Melex 3D sensor (3$) on TM.16000M (same of Warthog). MarS sensor has been denvelop/refined over more than 10 years. The question is, using these actual 12 bits or more contrtollers resolution, means that a movement of ~0.03mm in joystick grip will be registered be controller, but our hands are able to notice this? So, more than in electronics the question X versus Y precision will depend more on joystick gimbal construction or how precise is this, if have play or deadzone (mechanical). Since both products depends of the "China factor(ies)" is need await the final product to see. I bet on VKB project, after all VKB guys are simmers. So does it use HAL sensors for the stick or not? If so, I'll probably get one .
Sokol1 Posted May 22, 2015 Author Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) So does it use HAL sensors for the stick or not? If so, I'll probably get one . Yes, for X, Y and rudder axis. "Roll, pitch, TWIST - New generation of proximity sensor MaRS." This one: http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/download/file.php?id=1453&mode=view They are called "MaRS" (~ magnetic resistive sensor) a proprietary model developed by VKB during the last ~10 years (for his RDR rudder pedal line), that work in digital mode (like the Melexis HALL sensor used in Warthog/T.16000M). In reality "MaRS" are a angle sensor (designed for automotive industry, I think), that work measuring the magnetic field direction, HALL sensor work measuring the magnetic field strength. Advantages (of angle sensor, applied in joystick) are better linearity, less interference from external magnetic fields (for example can be used in a "all metal" gimbal - the Warthog gimbal are "all plastic") and require a less strong magnet. A normal "virpilov" cant notice differences between use one or other type of sensor (if are any). ... not many buttons on the head of stick ( i think more buttons in head is better then many buttons at the bottom) True, but the question is make a joystick based on KG-13B Knuppelgriff (originaly 4 buttons) without compromise much his design - the Russian "virpilovs" like this design - that besides in Luftwaffe WW II planes are used in some Russian WWII planes (Yak...) post war jets like Mig-15/17 and until 1960's in military trainers. Will be more easy (buttons wise) make a "space age" or another modern F-xx based stick with more HAT/buttons, but this types - besides became more expensive - are plenty joysticks on the market... ... Force Feedback In a <100$ joystick? We must be realistic: Force Feedback license is not cheap (vide Immersion X Sony, Microsoft lawsuit). Force Feedback Windows drives development probable has stop in ~ 2003 - end of Sidewinder line manufacturing. Are problems for FF work correctly in actual games due this old Windows drivers, e.g. in BoS (as has in il-2 1946, CloD): Q - .... n 12 May 2015 - 12:17, said: What is the situation with the implementation of FF on MSFFB2? Can we expect in the next patch edits? A (Loft) - While no revisions are planned. The topic was discussed many times, its difficulties and problems are known to all. [/quoe] The G-940 had a short market life. The expensive (X000$) seem became "history" before hit the market... Be realistic, FF today is console thing. Edited May 22, 2015 by Sokol1
Dutch2 Posted May 22, 2015 Posted May 22, 2015 Yes, for X, Y and rudder axis. "Roll, pitch, TWIST - New generation of proximity sensor MaRS." This one: http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/download/file.php?id=1453&mode=view They are called "MaRS" (~ magnetic resistive sensor) a proprietary model developed by VKB during the last ~10 years (for his RDR rudder pedal line), that work in digital mode (like the Melexis HALL sensor used in Warthog/T.16000M). In reality "MaRS" are a angle sensor (designed for automotive industry, I think), that work measuring the magnetic field direction, HALL sensor work measuring the magnetic field strength. Advantages (of angle sensor, applied in joystick) are better linearity, less interference from external magnetic fields (for example can be used in a "all metal" gimbal - the Warthog gimbal are "all plastic") and require a less strong magnet. A normal "virpilov" cant notice differences between use one or other type of sensor (if are any). True, but the question is make a joystick based on KG-13B Knuppelgriff (originaly 4 buttons) without compromise much his design - the Russian "virpilovs" like this design - that besides in Luftwaffe WW II planes are used in some Russian WWII planes (Yak...) post war jets like Mig-15/17 and until 1960's in military trainers. Will be more easy (buttons wise) make a "space age" or another modern F-xx based stick with more HAT/buttons, but this types - besides became more expensive - are plenty joysticks on the market... ... Force Feedback In a <100$ joystick? We must be realistic: Force Feedback license is not cheap (vide Immersion X Sony, Microsoft lawsuit). Force Feedback Windows drives development probable has stop in ~ 2003 - end of Sidewinder line manufacturing. Are problems for FF work correctly in actual games due this old Windows drivers, e.g. in BoS (as has in il-2 1946, CloD): Q - .... n 12 May 2015 - 12:17, said: What is the situation with the implementation of FF on MSFFB2? Can we expect in the next patch edits? A (Loft) - While no revisions are planned. The topic was discussed many times, its difficulties and problems are known to all. [/quoe] The G-940 had a short market life. The expensive (X000$) seem became "history" before hit the market... Be realistic, FF today is console thing. Then still I will love what is left over from FF and use my made of concrete and steel MS/FF2 for that.
Sokol1 Posted May 22, 2015 Author Posted May 22, 2015 The simplify version show in this drawing: http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=26809 Is for the Russian market, to be sold be local hardware distributor brand, that demand some changes for fit in his profit margin (the John Ruskin talk above) , so probable come without MaRS on rudder (twist) axis... BTW - On this market are sold a "entry level" low cost throttle that can be used to make a HOTAS, the Gametrix ECS (I think this throttle did not reach the western market due the use - by Chinese manufacturer - of the same molds used for X-36/45/52 throttle, with minimal changes). The Gladiator "full" version, with integrated throttle and more functions should maintain the MaRS on twist, probable is the version to be sold via Flightsimcontrols in Netherlands. Both versions can control "PnP" the VKB rudder pedals T-Rudder (1 axis) or RDR MK19-Mk21 (3 axis).
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted May 23, 2015 Posted May 23, 2015 Will the single stick version (with or without twist MARS sensors) be availabel to the european market? Or is only the "full" version planed to be sold in europe? Personally I very hope for the former.
Sokol1 Posted May 23, 2015 Author Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) I guess that is probably, like the Defender Cobra M5 is - eventually - sold by Flightsimcontrols or in eBay Germany. Edited May 23, 2015 by Sokol1
Sokol1 Posted June 12, 2015 Author Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) http://www.asian-games.com.tw/2015/JS-3601V/images/PaceWheel-140314.mp4 http://www.asian-games.com.tw/2015/JS-3601V/ Edited June 12, 2015 by Sokol1 1
3instein Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 http://www.asian-games.com.tw/2015/JS-3601V/images/PaceWheel-140314.mp4 http://www.asian-games.com.tw/2015/JS-3601V/ Very cool Sokol, any idea of the price range this will retail at? Mick.
Sokol1 Posted June 12, 2015 Author Posted June 12, 2015 The initial target was set in ~90$ range the "full version" (the one in teaser). The "light" version for Russian market will cost less.
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 I'm still a little confused by the concepts presented some time ago. Is the "just the stick" version without fixed throttle unit also going to be availabel for purchase? Or has the team settled on only one design? Th advertisement looks promising although I would feel guilty for having to cut the unit into half to make it fit my flight seat.
Wuerger Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 I fear the stick will be to slippery to move z-axis without problems. If you implement a z-axis in a joystick, you have to build a stick like Microsoft SideWinder Precision or Force Feedback, where you got a tray for the right thumb. http://www.museumofplay.org/online-collections/22/43/111.1726
3instein Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) The initial target was set in ~90$ range the "full version" (the one in teaser). The "light" version for Russian market will cost less. Cheers pal, Definitely going to keep my eye on this, and thanks for all the info you post regarding this project. Mick. Edited June 12, 2015 by 3instein
SYN_Mike77 Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 Any idea on release date? I smell a christmas present to myself! Or birthday if needs be.
Sokol1 Posted June 12, 2015 Author Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) Is the "just the stick" version without fixed throttle unit also going to be available for purchase? Those pictures are not from production models but mock-up show in Asian-games stand in Computex 2015. In the right side the Gladiator Light (for Russian market), without the double throttle, the grip look more tall because is not Gladiator grip, is the first mock-up of KG-12 grip (for Warthog/VKB Mamba bases), why in the picture of this version linked above the grip is not show. In the left side the Gladiator with integrated double throttle (the one show in the promo video). As stated from begin a HOTAS version is not planed due the additional cost involved and the market intended - one can say that is the "new player" of BoS (and WT). Edited June 12, 2015 by Sokol1
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) Ok, got a little confused with all the variants floating around in here. If there won't be any other flight stick variants I hope the light version to also find it's way into the European market. Hotas is not nessecary as my X52 Throttle is serving me still. It just needs to be small enought to chair-mount it. Thx for the info! Edited June 13, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka
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