esk_pedja Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 Is it really so soft at axes tension ? ( ...too soft for WW2 feeling ? ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhlZHE4ZY-I
Sokol1 Posted January 26, 2018 Author Posted January 26, 2018 Yes, Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla" gimbal is similar to CH sticks gimbal, with light springs. Besides in Gladiator Mk.II is use damper grease in gimbal groves for make the return to center less "jump" (as you see in the video). VKB target with this is "softneess" is make more easy to aim in WW2 games. You need talk with users of this model for know what their feel about, as joystick give different "feel" for different persons.
esk_pedja Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 Many thanks "Falcon1"... I would say " more easy to aim in multiplayer head to head passes". WW2 fighters did not have a digital (soft) precision in dogfight or ground strife... Just a pity to sacrifice such a nice project for a 21st century multiplayer vanity.
Sokol1 Posted February 14, 2018 Author Posted February 14, 2018 Seems that Gladiator "is history" - their production depends on Asian-Games partnership, as their OEM versions was market failure, probable this manufacturer give up of the enterprise: Gladiator Mk.II: this very successful product is completely sold out. The product has been designed and produced in collaboration with our partners. This joint project is ended and there is no plans anymore for any production run for this product under VKB control and VKB-Sim brand. VKB is busy with new midprice-range product for Gladiator Mk.II replacement which should include new features never been used earlier in joysticks of this price level. Quality standards should also exceed expectations for this type of joysticks. However, this product is in early design phase. We aim to have it ready by the end of the year but it is difficult to predict how much time it will take to hit the market. There are always some challenges to face like with any other innovative product.
SJ_Butcher Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 I don't think this is the right decision, you should keep producing it until the new one arrive... with this you are losing market guys
WIS-Redcoat Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Where was that quote from? I didn't see anything on the VKB website. In fact it still shows Gladiator II sticks becoming available next month. Seems that Gladiator "is history" - their production depends on Asian-Games partnership, as their OEM versions was market failure, probable this manufacturer give up of the enterprise:
Seb71 Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) Where was that quote from? I didn't see anything on the VKB website. In fact it still shows Gladiator II sticks becoming available next month. It's from the latest news from VKB Europe. Edited February 15, 2018 by Seb71
dburne Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 From looking at the VKB NA site, it would seem that the Gladiator Pro will be produced and regular Gladiator showing not available.
Sokol1 Posted February 15, 2018 Author Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) Gladiator Mk.II Pro: there is a limited stock at the moment. We plan to maintain the stock with some extra production batch but as this product is based on discontinued Gladiator joystick, the stock will not last long. Is similar to history of VKB Black Mamba, who use Cobra M5 grip produced by Defender, who stop their production. For start Gladiator production VKB make a partnership with Asian-Games, who finance Gladiator molds. Accord Flightsimcontrols (VKB seller in Netherlands) this agreement came to end, what suggest that VKB besides no more access to Asian-Games installations have no more access to Gladiator molds. Gladiator OEM versions made by Asian-Games and sell by hardware distributors as Airrow and Javelin don't seems be a market success - as cost more than other "entry-level" joysticks, probable this business became uninteresting for that factory. The bad is that flight games market loose a reasonable affordable good quality/features joystick, and their replacement, who will take more than a year to appear, fit in "midprice-range"(?). Edited February 15, 2018 by Sokol1
dburne Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Odd wonder why they show Gladiator Pro availability as being in March...
WIS-Redcoat Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 That Gladiator II was a great stick... I really hope the replacement isn't a modern / space grip.
TWC_Ace Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 That Gladiator II was a great stick... I really hope the replacement isn't a modern / space grip. Quite the contrary, I hope they will make "ergonomic joystick". I dont care about looks, I never stare at my joystick while flying anf certainly not when dogfighting. Stick should be precise, good quality, ERGONOMIC (easy to hold for everyone, easy reaches for buttons etc)....Sidewinders were perfect ergonomicaly wise. I really dont care about looks.
Sokol1 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Posted February 16, 2018 ERGONOMIC ...Sidewinders were perfect ergonomicaly wise. I hate Sidewinders and similar grips with that top buttons arrangement because the button bellow HAT force me bend thumb at an uncomfortable angle.
Sokol1 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Posted February 16, 2018 Gladiator OEM versions made by Asian-Games and sell by hardware distributors as Airrow and Javelin don't seems be a market success - as cost more than other "entry-level" joysticks, probable this business became uninteresting for that factory. And that OEM versions will be more cheap made, replacing VKB electronics (NJoy32, MaRS) by generic controller and analog sensors - similar happens with Cobra M-5 V.3. - "Euro Gladiator" Javelin, by my estimates, somewhere (plus or minus a couple of months) should go out with another controller (not Njoy32)."
Sokol1 Posted February 17, 2018 Author Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) Gladiator NG (From il2.ru, GT) Moving to the next level. Gladiator (Mk.II) goes down in history. We still have a small stock in warehouse, but we will not produce new lots. Now we are working on the joystick "Gladiator NG" (Next Generation). Gladiator of the new generation is a completely new joystick, not a revision of the old model. He inherits the layout of the Gladiator Plus (which existed only as a prototype, but did not go into the series), a completely new mechanism for centering the grip on 3D-cams, a new twist, and an improved KG12 handle functionality. The design and functionality of Gladiator NG is sharpened by the hardcore control of piston aircraft. More until I can not say, watch the announcements. PS And Gladiator say thank you. This joystick for several years was the "workhorse" of the WKB. But we want more. Prototype of mentioned "Gladiator Plus" - "inspiration" for Gladiator NG? Curious about this "improved KG12 handle functionality". Anyway, good news, for after the Chinese New year (of 2019). Edited February 17, 2018 by Sokol1
TWC_Ace Posted February 18, 2018 Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) I hate Sidewinders and similar grips with that top buttons arrangement because the button bellow HAT force me bend thumb at an uncomfortable angle. The button layout is perfect for me in sidewinder...every button is reachable...also whole stick is made with average sized hand in mind and the grip itself is made so the hands naturally fits its shape. Gladiator is superb joystick, precise, sturdy and nice looking but ergonomy isnt that great (hence me109 like grip and layout). Here is a review of Gladiator MK2 which concerns ergonomy also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pkQ_xG6gs0 He is comparing the Gladiator MK2 with T16000M which has very simmilar grip and buton layout to sidewinders...He is talking about ergonomy from 1:52... Edited February 18, 2018 by blackram
Voidhunger Posted February 18, 2018 Posted February 18, 2018 i just wanted order vkb gladiator for my birthday and: this very successful product is completely sold out. This joint project is ended and there is no plans anymore for any production run Cool! thanks
TWC_Ace Posted February 18, 2018 Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) i just wanted order vkb gladiator for my birthday and: this very successful product is completely sold out. This joint project is ended and there is no plans anymore for any production run Cool! thanks see here, post #446 from this page: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14343-vkb-gladiator-joystick-project/?p=574975 Edited February 18, 2018 by blackram
Sokol1 Posted February 18, 2018 Author Posted February 18, 2018 The button layout is perfect for me in sidewinder...every button is reachable...also whole stick is made with average sized hand in mind and the grip itself is made so the hands naturally fits its shape. Gladiator is superb joystick, precise, sturdy and nice looking but ergonomy isnt that great (hence me109 like grip and layout). Here is a review of Gladiator MK2 which concerns ergonomy also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pkQ_xG6gs0 He is comparing the Gladiator MK2 with T16000M which has very simmilar grip and buton layout to sidewinders...He is talking about ergonomy from 1:52... Well KG-12/13 grips are designed as two buttons grips (plus radio PTT bellow the grip), the B-Knopf was a adaptation for drop bombs - a button that pilot use one time per flight and so don't hamper much, but make this button a POV what is used constantly was not a good idea. T.16000M grip has the same bad placed (for me) button under HAT. I start modify the grip of one, but end loosing the interest in then and now he "rest in pieces" is some box. https://s10.postimg.org/4zgnbqeeh/T16_M.jpg
Sokol1 Posted February 19, 2018 Author Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) At some time I suggest for VKB - based on wishes of "kosmosima" pilots, made a "middle-range" option combining Gladiator "vanilla" (no PRO) base with MCG (non PRO) grip, what will compete in in functions/price with CH F-16, but with modern electronics, sensor (x 1990's) and "twist rudder". The answer at time is this is was not planed, that Gladiator should remain only as "low cost" option. Ironically, now that Gladiator MK.II "vanilla" will be no longer produced, they are working in a way to allow Gladiator "vanilla" use... MCG grip. "We are also working to make it possible to install the MCG pen on a regular Gladiator (not Pro). Details later. PS But it is necessary to disassemble the joystick independently and to change the original Gladiator rod to a new one, which allows changing the handle." Edited February 19, 2018 by Sokol1
TWC_Ace Posted February 20, 2018 Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) At some time I suggest for VKB - based on wishes of "kosmosima" pilots, made a "middle-range" option combining Gladiator "vanilla" (no PRO) base with MCG (non PRO) grip, what will compete in in functions/price with CH F-16, but with modern electronics, sensor (x 1990's) and "twist rudder". The answer at time is this is was not planed, that Gladiator should remain only as "low cost" option. Ironically, now that Gladiator MK.II "vanilla" will be no longer produced, they are working in a way to allow Gladiator "vanilla" use... MCG grip. "We are also working to make it possible to install the MCG pen on a regular Gladiator (not Pro). Details later. PS But it is necessary to disassemble the joystick independently and to change the original Gladiator rod to a new one, which allows changing the handle." Great news, Sokol. Edited February 21, 2018 by blackram
TWC_Ace Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) On 2/19/2018 at 12:41 AM, Sokol1 said: Well KG-12/13 grips are designed as two buttons grips (plus radio PTT bellow the grip), the B-Knopf was a adaptation for drop bombs - a button that pilot use one time per flight and so don't hamper much, but make this button a POV what is used constantly was not a good idea. T.16000M grip has the same bad placed (for me) button under HAT. I start modify the grip of one, but end loosing the interest in then and now he "rest in pieces" is some box. https://s10.postimg.org/4zgnbqeeh/T16_M.jpg Here, this guy talks about ergonomics with glad.... look at 1:53 As for the sidewinders...that button near hat is easly reachable and I get used to fit my thumb at 45°. But I agree your modded T16000 has very nice button placement. Here is Speedlink Hawk which have similar button layout. Edited March 7, 2018 by blackram
TWC_Ace Posted March 13, 2018 Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) On 2/14/2018 at 8:07 PM, Sokol1 said: Seems that Gladiator "is history" Really an odd decision. Ending production of a "budget midranger" before the MK3 is ready. With that said its really a shame original gladiator wasnt available for EU market. Amazon, Ebay are too expensive to ship from US to EU. Do you know which grip will MK3 use? BTW I finally got my hands on Speedlink Airrow and I was pleasantly surprised by the ergonomics (important for me). I thought it was built for big hands and that it would be awfull ergonomically wise. But it isnt! Its OK. I naturally rest my thumb on hatswitch (I like its sunken, its more comfortable that way) as Im using it for zooming and recentering my head tracking. The upper trigger Im using for guns and I can reach it without raising my fist from headrest (I have midsized hands!). Also the buttons on the base are easily reacheable except the bir red button on the right side of the base (I use it for eject anyways). The movement of the stick is smooth and tension is about right (T16000 is too stiff). Its very precise (did a test in joy tester). The twist is using cheap potentiometers (unlike in gladiator where mars are used) but is working fine if you dont have pedals. There is a slight free play on twist function (yaw). Pitch has very very slight "freeplay" and roll barelly noticable. I guess and that is only my guess, both OEMs and Gladiator itself are coming from the same production line and what you will get is a pure lottery as even some gladiator owners had some problems (freeplay around center, noisy pitch and roll etc.). Airrow was 100$ in my country but is discontinued now. Ravcore Javelin is even cheaper and is available for 88$ which is great price for basically a Gladiator with "cheaper twist function". And if you have pedals its even less important. I need a small favour from owners of original non pro Gladiator. Do you guys have "freeplay" on any of the axis? Im specially interested in yaw. I would like to know if original Glad is better in that area than OEMs. Edited March 13, 2018 by blackram
Sokol1 Posted March 13, 2018 Author Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, blackram said: Really an odd decision. Ending production of a "budget midranger" before the MK3 is ready. With that said its really a shame original gladiator wasnt available for EU market. Amazon, Ebay are too expensive to ship from US to EU. For what I get of this 'story' this is not due VKB decision, but forced by circumstances. Seems the molds of Gladiator plastic parts are not owned by VKB, but by Asian-Games and as they OEM versions (Airrow, Javelin) don't result a commercial success*, they bail out from the venture, and VKB goes back to square one in matter of offer an affordable entry-level joystick. In il2.ru they talk about an "improved" KG-12A grip for their "Next Gen" entry-level joystick. * A regional hardware distributor contact then, but the numbers their force for a vendor place a order is too high, making uninteresting from financial point of view - need expend much in a product for a niche market, with uncertain demand. Quote Pitch has very very slight "freeplay" and roll barelly noticable. I guess and that is only my guess, both OEMs and Gladiator itself are coming from the same production line and what you will get is a pure lottery as even some gladiator owners had some problems (freeplay around center, noisy pitch and roll etc.). OEM versions don't incorporate the modifications VKB make for Gladiator Mk.II addressing this issues, e.g. the end of center pole in Mk.II is now a steel pin, instead plastic of Mk.I and OEM's. Edited March 13, 2018 by Sokol1
TWC_Ace Posted March 13, 2018 Posted March 13, 2018 20 minutes ago, Sokol1 said: For what I get of this 'story' this is not due VKB decision, but forced by circumstances. OEM versions don't incorporate the modifications VKB make for Gladiator Mk.II addressing this issues, e.g. the end of center pole in Mk.II is now a steel pin, instead plastic of Mk.I and OEM's. Yes i know. On both. I know VKB isnt responsible. And I know MK2 fixed those issues. I was comparing OEM and MK1. Still for the price JAvelin is a very good choice. Its 86$ here in the store. What I would like to kniow if the original Gladiator MK1 had " free play" around yaw (twist) like my OEM.
TWC_Ace Posted March 13, 2018 Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) Here is something very interesting. On first picture is Speedlink Airrow I got for testing, on the second one (one spot lower) is Ravcore Javelin and on the bottom is Gladiator MK1. See how te cables of connectors are placed differently. Which one do you think is better? https://imgur.com/a/Z3TY0 @Sokol1 - Do you think Gldaitor MK3 would be available for EU this time? Or we will se another OEM version? Edited March 13, 2018 by blackram
TWC_Ace Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, Sokol1 said: OEM versions don't incorporate the modifications VKB make for Gladiator Mk.II addressing this issues, e.g. the end of center pole in Mk.II is now a steel pin, instead plastic of Mk.I and OEM's. Yes, somewhere on reddit I saw a few guys having probs with that metal pin interfering with the surroundings so they had noisy pitch movement and like in steps. Removing the pin fixed an issue. So like I said, it was hit and miss, still. Edited March 14, 2018 by blackram
TWC_Ace Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 One question for non pro Gladaitor users. MK1 and MK2. Do you feel a detent or "stopping" on the centre position of joystick. When you move the grip itself? It is present in Airrow and I would like to know if it is present in Gladiator.
YR-DAN55 Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 Hi there, I have a Gladiator joystick that does not work (does not turn on led, is not recognized by Win10) is like nonexistent, where could I buy another main board? I contacted VKB EU but I did not get any response within 10 days. Serial number : 47EC53FD4B ,E26837C933,C01753FBD3,D952CE7A45.
Sokol1 Posted March 26, 2018 Author Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Post in VKB forum - Techical Support, opening a support ticket by this instructions: http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2762 Edited March 26, 2018 by Sokol1
YR-DAN55 Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 Sokol1 Thanks for the quick answer, but I do not think I can follow all the required steps and the joystick is no longer in the warranty period.I'll try anyway.
Sokol1 Posted March 26, 2018 Author Posted March 26, 2018 For buy an replacement circuit board you need direct contact with VKB (China), their EU seller difficult will have this as spare parts, so for your post in Technical forum don't be ignored, open the ticket.
YR-DAN55 Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 I opened a ticket and I wait for a reply. I ordered a RAVCORE Jevelin, and if I can not buy replacement circuit board, I will try to put the board from Ravcore to Gladiator. It will be more expensive but I hope it works. Thank you again
Sokol1 Posted May 28, 2018 Author Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) Mounts ago are rumored that Gladiator Mk.II (non PRO) was discontinued and will be replaced by Gladiator NG - a kind of "monoblock HOTAS" (don't expect see before 2019), for what worth actually is not available neither in VKB USA or VKB EU or VKB RU or Aliexpress or Amazon.com/X-Plane store. But last week in Il-2.ru was mentioned an "Gladiator X" to be available... soon™ (= two weeks, be sure™). More about this "Gladiator X" - a conventional Gladiator (non PRO) base that will accept MCG or KG-12A removable grips, but loose "twist" rudder*. Probable using that "Gladiator Lite" upgrade kit. MCG grips will offer new "twist" rudder kit, exclusive for this version. https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/6682-vkb-sim-mcg-вопросы-ответы-советы/?do=findComment&comment=618400 Edited May 28, 2018 by Sokol1
JG4_Nutella Posted May 28, 2018 Posted May 28, 2018 Thank you, I'll wait and see what I buy for an stick.?
Sokol1 Posted June 4, 2018 Author Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) "Rumors": Quote We returned the Gladiator to the model line. The production ends in May. Soon Gladiators will again appear on sale. And immediately answer about the upgrade will be or not? Will be. Quote Iron mechanics will be? Yes, but after upgrades to X. "Upgrate to X" = Gladiator (non PRO) with metal pole that accept MCG grips. "Iron mechanics" = CAM gimbal as upgrade for Gladiator "vanilla" (non PRO) ETA (probable) : June 30, 2018. Edited June 4, 2018 by Sokol1
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