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VKB Gladiator joystick project

Sokol1

By Sokol1
in Hardware, Software and Controllers

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SJ_Butcher

SJ_Butcher

Posted
Posted

No, I'm not going to contribute a large amount of my personal time googling product reviews or looking them up on YT for you - especially when there are months worth of them.

 

I don't own the joystick - I'm only repeating what I've heard.

 

Chill.  :huh:

 

then you have nothing in concrete and are claiming something that I have never read after a month of research...

  • Upvote 1
Bearfoot

Bearfoot

Posted
Posted (edited)

No, I'm not going to contribute a large amount of my personal time googling product reviews or looking them up on YT for you - especially when there are months worth of them.

 

I don't own the joystick - I'm only repeating what I've heard.

 

Chill.  :huh:

 

 

Ok. I, too, have been spending a large amount of time googling product reviews. And what I have found does not match "many reflect on fundamental quality issues like poor quality materials, sloppy action, poor construction, misaligned/miscalibrated sensors, etc.". So, in the interests of a friendly community discussion where we can all learn and share what we learn, I asked if you would mind pointing out some of those reviews. In no way was I being lazy or asking you to do my due diligence. In fact, after reading your statement, I went searching again, and AGAIN did not find anything that matches what you said.

 

So at this point it appears large numbers of reviews that "found fundamental quality issues etc." all seem to have mysteriously and simultaneously disappeared from the entire internet without trace. This itself is a remarkable phenomenon worthy of note. But then the person who claimed this is getting all bristly and defensive when asked to cite sources claiming it will take too much time to turn up even some of these many accounts that used to exist. Ok, now I am really worried --- this could be something BIG. It's looking pretty sinister. Parties with enough clout to remove widespread internet content AND cause a random internet commentator to shut up!! Who is behind this?? Could it be a state player or a third-party? Space_Ghost: if you are being held against your will or threatened, blink twice. If someone is holding your mountain dew stash hostage and forcing you to make critical remarks about a product without you actually having seen any reviews to that effect, send a signal in morse by blinking your left eye while typing your next post.

Edited by Bearfoot
  • Upvote 1
SCG_Space_Ghost

SCG_Space_Ghost

Posted
Posted

then you have nothing in concrete and are claiming something that I have never read after a month of research...

 

I'm not claiming anything other than my own personal satisfaction having not purchased the Gladiator due to the things I have heard and read about it which, in all practicality, I don't have the time to search out everything I've heard or read about it since it was released months ago.

 

I reiterate - chill.  :mellow:

-snip-

 

REEEEE-LAAAAAX

 

1322721401390.png

Bearfoot

Bearfoot

Posted
Posted

<snip>

 

(True) message received and understood. Let us know if you need help escaping ;)

SCG_Space_Ghost

SCG_Space_Ghost

Posted
Posted

(True) message received and understood. Let us know if you need help escaping ;)

 

I'm sorry, what is your point here?

 

Why are you being so defensive because I said I'm not going to google things for you?

 

Is that out of line or something?

Bearfoot

Bearfoot

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm sorry, what is your point here?

 

Why are you being so defensive because I said I'm not going to google things for you?

 

Is that out of line or something?

 

Space_Ghost: No point, let's move on.

 

For everyone else ...

 

Sokol1 has provided links to actual reviews by actual users that convey the general impressions of most reviews that I have found.

 

FWIW, I have been my usual OCD-self is scouring the internet for every shred of information I could find regarding these controllers and have honestly found NOTHING --- not one iota of a hint of a gesture of a whiff --- that there are ANY quality issues with the controllers. Biggest issue has historically been production capacity vs. demand. Furthermore, their previous vendor refused to take returns/refunds (only offering replacement on defective products). When buying something sight unseen over the internet, this is a real issue and something to be seriously considered. But problems in quality and materials? Nope. Nope, nope, and nope. But that does not mean that these do not exist!

 

I am currently planning on upgrading my stick, and need to decide between a VKB and VIrpil. I have a perfectly functioning TMWH + 20cm extension, so am in no pressure to buy either if they are not 100% up to mark. And so I am actually looking specifically and explicitly for negative reviews of the products right now, so I know the limitations of what I might be getting. So, if anyone has come across any reviews/opinions/experiences that describe potential or actual problems with the VKB products, I would greatly appreciate it if you would point them out to me. 

 

Full disclosure: I do not currently own any VKB products and am in no way associated with VKB. Though I briefly bought and resold the VKB Rudder TIV, which is where I encountered the previous North American dealer's "no return/refund, only replacement if defective" policy. 

Edited by Bearfoot
SJ_Butcher

SJ_Butcher

Posted
Posted

Space_Ghost: No point, let's move on.

 

For everyone else ...

 

Sokol1 has provided links to actual reviews by actual users that convey the general impressions of most reviews that I have found.

 

FWIW, I have been my usual OCD-self is scouring the internet for every shred of information I could find regarding these controllers and have honestly found NOTHING --- not one iota of a hint of a gesture of a whiff --- that there are ANY quality issues with the controllers. Biggest issue has historically been production capacity vs. demand. Furthermore, their previous vendor refused to take returns/refunds (only offering replacement on defective products). When buying something sight unseen over the internet, this is a real issue and something to be seriously considered. But problems in quality and materials? Nope. Nope, nope, and nope. But that does not mean that these do not exist!

 

I am currently planning on upgrading my stick, and need to decide between a VKB and VIrpil. I have a perfectly functioning TMWH + 20cm extension, so am in no pressure to buy either if they are not 100% up to mark. And so I am actually looking specifically and explicitly for negative reviews of the products right now, so I know the limitations of what I might be getting. So, if anyone has come across any reviews/opinions/experiences that describe potential or actual problems with the VKB products, I would greatly appreciate it if you would point them out to me. 

 

Full disclosure: I do not currently own any VKB products and am in no way associated with VKB. Though I briefly bought and resold the VKB Rudder TIV, which is where I encountered the previous North American dealer's "no return/refund, only replacement if defective" policy. 

 

my joystick should arrive tomorrow, the gladiator non pro, I can give some info after a few hours of test.

Bearfoot

Bearfoot

Posted
Posted

my joystick should arrive tomorrow, the gladiator non pro, I can give some info after a few hours of test.

Looking forward to it!

 

Evidence-backed opinion is more of the world needs right now!

SJ_Butcher

SJ_Butcher

Posted
Posted (edited)

well arrived today, I am at work so I just opened the box to see the construction, man, this thing feels heavy, very sturdy, very confortable, and nothing cheap, it feels amazing for the price, my only complain is the main trigger, but I purchased a metallic one to replace it. I will test it as soon as I reach my home, but I loved it

Edited by SJ_Butcher
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

Posted
Posted

Sokol, actually, can you add any links to those tests of Gladiator Pro extensions ? You mentioned they tried them so I'd be interested in seeing how it works ? I assume you also have to install strongest cam/springs to keep it centered ?  

Sokol1

Sokol1

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Sokol, actually, can you add any links to those tests of Gladiator Pro extensions ? You mentioned they tried them so I'd be interested in seeing how it works ? I assume you also have to install strongest cam/springs to keep it centered ?  

 

I don't see any test of Gladiator PRO with extension - maybe VKB was done this but don't disclose the results.

 

What I say is that Gladiator PRO gimbal - that "Next Gen" was tested with 20cm extension in Mamba bases, since the gimbal "Next Gen" and extension was sold as upgrade for Mambas, and this for use the heavy/outbalanced Warthog grip. 

 

Based on this I guess (yes I guess :) ) that with a 8 ~12cm extension will be not problem use extension in Gladiator, if used one spring per axis like the gimbal was designed for.

 

And there is the problem, if VKB sell that extension for Gladiator PRO that guys in their eternal "Quest for the feel simulator" will test with more springs in Gimbal and certainly some part will be broken. One already broken in Mamba adding two strong springs in one axis - Mamba base is in aluminum and not plastic like in Gladiator.

 

Look, in Warthog's you have not way to add springs and if use a

, due the heavy and outbalanced grip, but in VKB's you have flexibility for do this, what became a risk in the hand of that guys.

 

So prevent this VKB make their Gunfighter "Dry Clutch" gimbal, more reinforced and tested with Warthog grip and 2 strong springs per axis. TmW gimbal can broke even in normal use (but is rare) and Tm did nothing for improve then in 7 years.

 

You are complaining that VKB don't offer extension for Gladiator PRO, Tm don't offer, probable don't test an I doubt that consider this in their gimbal design (that can broken for several reasons) and certainly don't approve use extension in TmW, but people use. :).

 

And this can happen with users of Force Sense MOD for TmW, but people use the MOD.

 

So, get VKB 20 cm extension - is the only model that they will make for now, optimized for heavy (~1kg) TMW grip with their "S" tube - remove the tube, is secure with 3 bolts, get a short straight tube with suitable diameter, and that typical for chair set level use 8 ~12 cm length. I doubt that you will broken anything with this, but the risk is your.  :biggrin:

 

"Without risk no reward". ;)

Edited by Sokol1
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

Posted
Posted

 

 

"Without risk no reward"

Sorry, but thats a high risk with a potential of breaking 312 Euro worth stick. And no warranty will apply.  

Matt

Matt

Posted
Posted

Im using the Warthog grip without extension on the Gladiator and I would not think about using an extension on that combination. The spring will be too weak (even the strongest available spring is barely strong enough for the grip without extension) and the plastic construction of the base (more precisely how the gimbal is mounted to the base, using 4 small metal screws in thin plastic) looks way too fragile for long term use like that.

 

Actually the way the screws hold into that plastic on the base is basically the only reason that I would consider the Gladiator Pro not worth the money. They could've gone with longer screws that go into the metal baseplate without much extra cost and basically made it ever lasting sturdy. I'm convinced that that point will breake sooner or later, especially if you don't use the plastic grip or use stronger springs.

 

I would now either wait for the Gunfighter or reviews on the Virpil stick, especially if you don't want to use the plastic Gladiator grip (which does not work for me for that price point and not because it's plastic).

Sokol1

Sokol1

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Sorry, but thats a high risk with a potential of breaking 312 Euro worth stick. And no warranty will apply.  

 

Well, rest suggest : buy a Warthog and add 3rd party extension, is "bullet proof".  ;)

 

Gladiator PRO is the  same plastic 90$ Gladiator plus 150$ "Next Gen" gimbal, both expensive relative to market options. TmW entire base cost ~213 Euro ~226$ (need replace in cases of broken gimbal in what magnet support end broken too)

Edited by Sokol1
J37_Spyboy

J37_Spyboy

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have Gladiator T Rudder mk3 combo and am very pleased with them.

Im puzzled as to why you would want an extension on a desktop device, if you put it on the floor you wont a access the buttons

I have Gladiator T Rudder mk3 combo and am very pleased

I have Gladiator T Rudder mk3 combo and am very pleased with them.

Im puzzled as to why you would want an extension on a desktop device, if you put it on the floor you wont a access the buttons

Edited by Spyboy
J37_Spyboy

J37_Spyboy

Posted
Posted

my kindle keyboard stopped working so duplicated above

SJ_Butcher

SJ_Butcher

Posted
Posted

how can you modify the sensitivity on this joystick? is too damn sensible xD, but despite that I killed planes easily, maybe I need to adjust more.

6./ZG26_5tuka

6./ZG26_5tuka

Posted
Posted (edited)

The sensibility of the sensors is a big advantage. The problem is that the grip itself is a bit short and the centerplay does somewhat decrease the benefit of it having high accurancy sensors.

One thing to note is that the grease due to it's viscousity needs time spreading around evenly. Infact I was a bit upset about the stick during the first 30 min of use due to slightly jerky movement which was due to the grease not being spread enought to work properly.

As far as the complaints about the trigger are concerned, I have no issues with it. It feels solid enought to do it's job if not being pushed excessively beyond the triggering stage.

My only complaints are:
- stick is a bit too short to utilize the full potential of the Mars sensors
- has too much centerplay out of the box (3.5mm as measured from highest point of the stick)
- pinky button is too hard to push and sometimes fails to trigger properly

Edit: The above is referring to the Speedlink Airrow.

Edited by 6./ZG26_5tuka
Sokol1

Sokol1

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

- has too much centerplay out of the box (3.5mm as measured from highest point of the stick)

Edit: The above is referring to the Speedlink Airrow.

 

KVB say that will - "tentatively in April" - sell the Gladiator Mk.II (center pin in metal) gimbal parts as upgrade for for Gladiator "vanila", suitable for Airrow or Javelin too, and should minimize this center play - eliminate 100% is impossible in plastic parts gimbal.

Edited by Sokol1
gnomechompsky

gnomechompsky

Posted
Posted

Does the Gladiator Pro require any periodic maintenance? e.g. greasing of the gimbal?

Sokol1

Sokol1

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

VKB say that no, the bearings is sealed. :)

 

Gunfighter "Dry Clutch" gimbal is probable that require, let's see...

 

BTW - VKB North America is taking orders for USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

Edited by Sokol1
sinned

sinned

Posted
Posted

Space ghost observation isn't obsolete.

I also debated getting gladiator due to number of mixed reviews I read.

I am on a mobile so I will just say that Amazon is full of post purchase reviews mentioning about not so stellar QC (misaligned joints, britter trigger etc).

 

That said however, actual mechanics seem very good.

 

I have bot one and I like it a lot.

I got mk ii so i prolly got the "improved qc" version.

 

Gladiator and mfg pedals help your aim tremendously. Everyone should get them.

Sokol1

Sokol1

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

I am on a mobile so I will just say that Amazon is full of post purchase reviews mentioning about not so stellar QC (misaligned joints, britter trigger etc).

Both issues was addressed in Mk.II revision and this new parts will be available for replace in "Mk.I".  ;)

 

 

BTW -   This parts of popular  (and more expensive) sticks still subject to broken and manufacturers did nothing for improve then after several years of products on market.  music_whistling.gif

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-30838-0-09061000-1484087064.jpg

https://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=119548&d=1436436221

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/HNdpztFMLSI/maxresdefault.jpg

Edited by Sokol1
sinned

sinned

Posted
Posted

Tigger is not as brittle as before but i am cautious of pulling it out.

 

That vkb guy on utube is on either crack or methane. Need to cut that out.

SCG_Space_Ghost

SCG_Space_Ghost

Posted
Posted

Space ghost observation isn't obsolete.

I also debated getting gladiator due to number of mixed reviews I read.

I am on a mobile so I will just say that Amazon is full of post purchase reviews mentioning about not so stellar QC (misaligned joints, britter trigger etc).

 

That said however, actual mechanics seem very good.

 

I have bot one and I like it a lot.

I got mk ii so i prolly got the "improved qc" version.

 

Gladiator and mfg pedals help your aim tremendously. Everyone should get them.

 

I DEMAND TO SEE YOUR SOURCES OTHERWISE YOU'RE LYING AND SPREADING MISINFORMATION.

 

I CAN'T FIND THE REVIEWS YOU'RE REFERRING TO. YOU'RE MAKING IT UP.

 

BUY ONE AND THEN YOU CAN TALK.

 

/s

Dutchvdm

Dutchvdm

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi Guys,

 

I have two VKB products which i bought somewhere around October. The T-Rudder IV and the Gladiator pro. Both are very nice products and i enjoy them very much. I would not want to go back to my old MSFFB2. I liked the strong force of the MS stick (Not the FBB), but the precision was terrible. I could not hit the broadside of a barn. Oh and my wobble went away. Both VKB product are very good high quality products, but there is a difference between the two. Where the rudders are all metal, they really give a high quality feel and finish. They really work well, but also look the part. The Gladiator pro works really well, but it's finish and looks are fine. Nothing more than that. I opened it twice to switch the springs (The standard springs are extremely weak. The medium and heavy springs are fine though), and the gimbal looks and works wonderful. One can really see that effort went into it. This part is really is on par with the pedals. The outside and buttons are fine. Not better than with my MS stick, but also not any worse. There are some cheap things like the screws for the base go right into the plastic, which to me is a bit cheap. All in all i'm very happy with both stick and pedals, but i would easily have paid 75 or 100 dollars more the gladiator pro if it had the same build as the pedals. All metal, really sturdy. But for now it's a good compromise. 

 

I didn't have any problems with ordering. VKB Europe did well, and i think the small batches and waiting process are something you can expect from such a nice product/company (Think about the Sony VR. I know several guys who could not buy one.... And that like Sony.... Not VKB).

 

Hope it helps.

 

Grt M

Edited by I./ZG1_Martijnvdm
  • Upvote 1
sinned

sinned

Posted
Posted

I DEMAND TO SEE YOUR SOURCES OTHERWISE YOU'RE LYING AND SPREADING MISINFORMATION.

 

I CAN'T FIND THE REVIEWS YOU'RE REFERRING TO. YOU'RE MAKING IT UP.

 

BUY ONE AND THEN YOU CAN TALK.

 

/s

There is a forum rule that prohibts ALL CAP users are auto banned for 30 days.

 

I don't have sources to back my claim but I cannot be lying... Am I?

 

Cheers

Sokol1

Sokol1

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

 All in all i'm very happy with both stick and pedals, but i would easily have paid 75 or 100 dollars more the gladiator pro if it had the same build as the pedals. All metal, really sturdy. But for now it's a good compromise. 

 

Gunfighter - minus the grip (what not compromise the "sturdiness").  :)

Edited by Sokol1
Dutchvdm

Dutchvdm

Posted
Posted

Gunfighter - minus the grip (what not compromise the "sturdiness").  :)

 

Yeah the Gunfighter ECP would be perfect, but unless i can sell my Glad pro for a good price i won't be switching again. Sometimes it's nice to just be happy with what you have...

 

Grt M

[CPT]Pike*HarryM

[CPT]Pike*HarryM

Posted
Posted

I've been using mine since October (regular Gladiator) and am very happy with it, no problems with it, no broken trigger either. 

Bearfoot

Bearfoot

Posted
Posted

 

Thanks for posting this, Sokol1! My google-fu failed to dig it up first time around (probably because I was searching specific sites, and did not think the sticks were offered via Amazon, only through stratojet). Either way, useful info. Apologies for any I offended with my requests for information ...

Blutaar

Blutaar

Posted
Posted

Hi, i have a question, will the VKB Sim Gunfighter Pro be available in europe and if so, when?

Sokol1

Sokol1

Posted
  • Author
Posted

 

Sokol1, on 01 Mar 2017 - 15:18, said:

snapback.png

Maybe help - Amazon's (11) top critical review:

 

https://www.amazon.c...al&pageNumber=1

 

"Plastic, feel cheap, rudder deadzone, fragilly trigger, pinky button DOA..."

Thanks for posting this, Sokol1! My google-fu failed to dig it up first time around (probably because I was searching specific sites, and did not think the sticks were offered via Amazon, only through stratojet). Either way, useful info. Apologies for any I offended with my requests for information ...

 

Is need filter that "reviews", example there's not "big deadzone" in twist rudder like a guy are complaining, is need turn (twist) more the grip - relative to other joysticks - for rudder act, this is done in this way on purpose, for avoid involuntary mix of rudder input in X, Y axis input.

Sokol1

Sokol1

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Blah, blah, blah... extension... blah, blah, blah...

 

"Without risk no reward". ;)

 

post-12483-0-71454900-1488882453.jpg

Edited by Sokol1
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

Posted
Posted

That's Pro, isnt it ? Which extension did you get ? 

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