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Is BoS getting mouse support soon?


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-NW-ChiefRedCloud
Posted

It's called "EXPANDING" the client base. And actually it's not a bad strategy. But we know, and it's said in the article, that it won't work that well in combat (if at all). But if new people come in and like what they see or experience, they will want to play it to it's full potential. Perhaps buy a stick, etch.

 

Look at it this way ..... more clay pigeons to shoot down. Great practice ...

 

Chief

  • Upvote 6
Posted (edited)

Don't worry Art, Mouse control in RoF\Illya is not mouse aim from war thunder. What they have done is work on using the mouse as sort of a virtual joystick. It works in that you can now fly on the simplest settings with just a mouse. Trust me, no one will ditch their joystick for mouse control! The hope is that people who don't have a joystick will say, hey I can use this game! Then they will after a while buy a simple joystick and then....

 

Actually that is pretty much the path that I took. My first flight sim was Dynamix' Red Baron. The original on floppy disks! You could use the mouse or the keyboard arrows to control the plane. After a while I bought a joystick...fancy one with two extra buttons! Now, I get the snort of derision every time my wife looks at my computer area. But if I would have had to plunk down the $50 for the game and buy a joystick? Not sure I would have.

Edited by SYN_Mike77
  • Upvote 5
voncrapenhauser
Posted

What? NO!! Never! I do not want another WarThunder (horrible game). 

Make mouse control an option and don't use it....that simple.

Don't deny it just because you don't like it.

 

I personally wouldn't use it at all but as Chief says , anything to get fresh users into simming has to be a option.

  • Upvote 1
SCG_Space_Ghost
Posted

Make mouse control an option and don't use it....that simple.

Don't deny it just because you don't like it.

 

I personally wouldn't use it at all but as Chief says , anything to get fresh users into simming has to be a option.

 

Sure... As long as the same option applies to dedicated servers.

 

No mouse aim in Syn Full Real.

1./JG42Nephris
Posted

Well in my marketing naivity I sometimes get the feeling the horse is getting settled from its back.

 

Il2 1946 presented a way to create a successfull combat sim.

I am pretty sure all the guys that left the past 3 or 4 months would have been enough to keep the teams`head above the waterline, additionally those who got shocked by the announcements of unlocks and settings characteristics of the game and prevented buying it until now.

 

- decent game core (done pretty much in Bos)

- decent grafics (done)

- free settings to adjust gameplay to everyones like (well, not done)

- FMB (announced but not done)

- dedicated Server (announced but not done)

- listen server (not done)

 

However I am not a marketing engineer, so what do I know. Most probabyl they did certain researched before on the market.

Btw on topic....mouse controll ...what for?

It is not the controls one bothers abóut.

I./JG68_Sperber
Posted

good for novice new customers = more money for the Team ;)

  • Upvote 2
Posted

 No mouse aim in Syn Full Real.

Where do you have the info from, that there will be mouse aim in RoF ? I read only mouse control. That wouldn't be an advantage at all.

Posted (edited)

What? NO!! Never! I do not want another WarThunder (horrible game). 

 

Relax, the mouse control is a (limited) joystick approximation. You can use it for basic stick moves (and pedals follow it to coordinate) but coordinating a sustained turn is difficult and I can't imagine recovering from spin through it. And it forces you to use the mouse view and choosing between stick following your FoV and letting go of the stick for full mouse view. Good for feeling thrill of flying and resolving to buy joystick next month.

 

 

Btw on topic....mouse controll ...what for?

 

I never counted, but the threads asking if it can be flown without a stick are common on steam RoF and BoS forums. Always someone new coming to ask it again.

Edited by Trupobaw
  • Upvote 2
Posted (edited)

I highly doubt that mouse control is coming to BoS. It was originally intended for Ilya Muromets, but when that was merged with RoF, they carried mouse control over. 

Problem with adding it to BoS is that it won't attract new players. This sim is still incredibly complex at heart, mouse control won't change that and hence won't attract the casual WarThunder crowd (which in my opinion is a blessing in disguise).They need more than just mouse control to invite fellow 15 year-olds over to play this game.

It will, however, keep hard-core simulator pilots from buying it, because it confirms their suspicion of this game being "casual". Considering that the latter is what this game needs (simulators need a solid, dedicated player-base (see '46) to work long-term), adding mouse control would not be a great idea.
 

Edited by 19te.Leaf
Posted

Warthunder introduced me to the flight simulation. I played the simulator mode for two months without a joystick only using the mouse for both controlling the plane and the view (a bit tricky !). In simulator mode there isn't that much of difference, basically the mouse give the same kind of input as a joystick, X and Y inputs. (it's not like in the other Warthunder modes where you point your mouse the way you want to go and the game flies the plane for you).


 


Of course you don't get the same feeling or immersion that with a joystick. But it's actually easier to aim as you can do easily very small and smooth correction. Dogfighting and some complex maneuvers are really tricky. But I flew the 109, sticking to strike boom and zoom and energy fighting and had good success.


 


Then I finally bought a joystick I played two days with it and got back to using the mouse because I couldn't hit anything with it ! 


 


However I moved to BoS, had to relearn everything but now there is no way back to flying with a mouse :)


 


And Warthunder it's definitively not the best flight experience out there, but the simulator mode is decent, free, very very well optimized, fast action paced and a good entry door to other simulations. And you can fly and shoot down the spitfire !

  • Upvote 4
SCG_Space_Ghost
Posted

Where do you have the info from, that there will be mouse aim in RoF ? I read only mouse control. That wouldn't be an advantage at all.

 

Semantics - I do not debate them.

 

:happy:

Posted

Semantics - I do not debate them.

 

:happy:

 

Not just semantics, I think :

 

mouse control = game see the mouse as a joystick :   No advantage for sure

mouse aim = the game see where you want to go and take you there

  • Upvote 2
Posted

There is no mouse aim in RoF. To say that there is only shows the ignorance (in the sense of you just don't know what you are talking about, not in the sense that you are dumb) on this matter. Now to say that the difference is just semantics is to blur the meaning of 'semantics' to cover just about all of human existence.

Posted

Flying with a mouse is like driving a shopping cart down a steep hill.

 

Sure you can do it, but..

 

I wouldnt worry about it. If someone wants to learn the game out with a mouse, I say let em. Nothing to fear.

 

First sim I ever tried was with mouse and keyboard. Now I have at least 700 dollars worth of toys for flight sim games...

 

My wife is the best.

  • Upvote 1
Posted

Since it's "mouse control" and not "mouse aim" I don't have a problem with the feature. If it gets more people into flight sims.

  • Upvote 1
SCG_Space_Ghost
Posted

There is no mouse aim in RoF. To say that there is only shows the ignorance (in the sense of you just don't know what you are talking about, not in the sense that you are dumb) on this matter. Now to say that the difference is just semantics is to blur the meaning of 'semantics' to cover just about all of human existence.

No, not really. It is a matter of how he and I define the terms differently - semantics.

 

Would you feel better if I PM'd a mod to change it for you all?

Posted (edited)

Sure it may be more challenging to dogfight, but it's easier than hell to BnZ with that oh-so-steady-nontwitchy, never-have-to-stabilize-aircraft aim.. and it'll create a "stronk" increase of the 12 year olds from War Thunder who will only fly to the moon in their 109's to BnZ. We don't need that cancer. If mouse pilots come, I go.

 

The devs should be concentrating on making this flight sim a better flight sim to attract the many flight simmers it has already lost and the potential ones it could bring.

 

And if people can't afford a $30 flight stick, they shouldn't have a computer in the first place.

Edited by Silky
  • Upvote 1
Posted

Sure it may be more challenging to dogfight, but it's easier than hell to BnZ with that oh-so-steady-nontwitchy, never-have-to-stabilize-aircraft aim.. and it'll create a "stronk" increase of the 12 year olds from War Thunder who will only fly to the moon in their 109's to BnZ. We don't need that cancer. If mouse pilots come, I go.

 

 

Please download the update for ROF and try it

  • Upvote 1
Posted

Nah, it'll be fine. It's actually a good way to make the game more accessible without inconveniencing the more dedicated.

  • Upvote 1
Posted

My first thought was: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

However, I actually don't mind if that brings more revenue, and therefore possibly more content/maps/theaters/planes.

 

As long as mouse input is disabled in Expert servers I'm ok with it. 

  • Upvote 2
Posted (edited)

Please download the update for ROF and try it

Don't agree with it, not gonna try it, never will. This is a very, very thin line. I've been playing IL-2 for 15 years because it's a flight simulator, something where you can't point a mouse and shoot. Every [Edited] starts with one falling piece of [Edited] before you know it, it turns into a raging [Edited].

 

HEY!

Edited by Bearcat
Language
Posted (edited)

Don't agree with it, not gonna try it, never will. This is a very, very thin line. I've been playing IL-2 for 15 years because it's a flight simulator, something where you can't point a mouse and shoot. Every [Edited] starts with one falling piece of [Edited] before you know it, it turns into a raging [Edited].

 

And that is what you don't do in ROF with mouse controll now. Mouse movement is translated to the stick, the planes don't fly more stable because of that, rather the oposite is true. 

 

spending 3 minutes to try it won't harm you

Edited by Bearcat
II./JG77_Manu*
Posted

You all know that DCS has mouse control since the beginning do you. This takes nothing away from a simulation. If you are using mouse control you have a serious disadvantage even compared to a bad joystick. Don't care at all if this is allowed in any server, easy meat to shoot down

  • Upvote 2
Posted

I dont care, if someone wants to fly with mouse its fine. Good to have options.

Posted

I highly doubt that mouse control is coming to BoS. It was originally intended for Ilya Muromets, but when that was merged with RoF, they carried mouse control over. 

 

Problem with adding it to BoS is that it won't attract new players. This sim is still incredibly complex at heart, mouse control won't change that and hence won't attract the casual WarThunder crowd (which in my opinion is a blessing in disguise).They need more than just mouse control to invite fellow 15 year-olds over to play this game.

It will, however, keep hard-core simulator pilots from buying it, because it confirms their suspicion of this game being "casual". Considering that the latter is what this game needs (simulators need a solid, dedicated player-base (see '46) to work long-term), adding mouse control would not be a great idea.

 

 

Man, quite a number waggling their noses high in the air at War Thunder. I started playing War Thunder arcade with a mouse and keyboard. Played that for quite a number of hours. Then I bought a stick. Then, I switched to the War Thunder simulator mode. Played that quite a bit. Then, I bought BoS. Now, I enjoy flying both War Thunder and BoS for different reasons. Stupid garbagey War Thunder. What with it getting me into flight sims... the nerve.

 

Though... it's the same thing on the War Thunder forums. Simulator mode players look down on realistic and arcade, and realistic looks down on arcade. Who looks down on BoS? DCS? Is DCS the game you have to play to be a "true" flight sim fan?

Posted (edited)

something where you can't point a mouse and shoot.

 

It doesn't work that way in RoF's mouse control. Also, the Il-2 series can be controlled via mouse.

 

 

Il2 1946 presented a way to create a successfull combat sim.

 

Il-2 1946 didn't just get released as it was. Il-2 was released in 2001, and it had about 3 years of development prior to its release. Using 1946 as a base to compare new games to just doesn't work, it is the culmination of close to a decade of development. 1946 doesn't present anything, it is the final product of years of development and multiple re-releases of the original Il-2. You can't even compare 1946 to the original Il-2, even the FM is completely different.

Edited by FuriousMeow
Posted

Man, quite a number waggling their noses high in the air at War Thunder. I started playing War Thunder arcade with a mouse and keyboard. Played that for quite a number of hours. Then I bought a stick. Then, I switched to the War Thunder simulator mode. Played that quite a bit. Then, I bought BoS. Now, I enjoy flying both War Thunder and BoS for different reasons. Stupid garbagey War Thunder. What with it getting me into flight sims... the nerve.

 

Though... it's the same thing on the War Thunder forums. Simulator mode players look down on realistic and arcade, and realistic looks down on arcade. Who looks down on BoS? DCS? Is DCS the game you have to play to be a "true" flight sim fan?

 

Good post.  I don't have War Thunder and I don't intend to but it strikes me as the best thing to happen to flight sims in the last five years.  It's brought a great deal of vital new blood to our genre and long may it continue to do so.

 

I really don't understand this "war thunder crowd" attitude at all.

SCG_Space_Ghost
Posted

Good post.  I don't have War Thunder and I don't intend to but it strikes me as the best thing to happen to flight sims in the last five years.  It's brought a great deal of vital new blood to our genre and long may it continue to do so.

 

I really don't understand this "war thunder crowd" attitude at all.

 

They next time you get shot down from shoulder fire or rammed from behind you will know...

 

Or maybe start to...

Posted

They next time you get shot down from shoulder fire or rammed from behind you will know...

 

Or maybe start to...

 

Oh yeah, because War Thunder is the start of that and the only place that ever occurs. It's been happening since the days of Air Warrior - even the most self righteous historically accurate "I want the game to be exactly like it was for Herr WumpyPants did in 1943 right down to PSI pressure markings on the tires" that gets indignant at anyone who is less than completely historical will be caught in that ever present conga line to shoot down the sole opposing aircraft that ventured low into enemy territory.

 

War Thunder is not exclusive to this behavior, it is as common, and prevalent, in all air combat sims as complaining about the flight models.

  • Upvote 2
Guest deleted@30725
Posted (edited)

I was a war thunder crowd. Here is why and I think this story is similar to many.

 

I was scared of getting back into flight sims. When you've not played a flight sim for 10 years and not even sure you will still like it it's difficult to know what you may enjoy. Equipment costs can soon mount up and that's a waste if you're not sure you will enjoy plane combat. War Thunder gave me a stepping stone back into flying and I think that's pretty cool. It was also a really fun game in the low levels before the f2p model reared its head and grind set in, but by then I had learnt basic tactics and the use of the aircraft so I could focus more on learning the advanced FM when I out grew War Thunder and moved to BOS and then to DCS.

 

I think some people do what I did and I think that's great. The other lot who want to stay there and play it like a flying fps is also cool. The basic sim fm mode is good training for mentioned games. I never spent money on it, but even though towards the end I started to despise the game and resent it for being what it is and trying think it was anything more than an arcade shooter with sim illusions. I'm sure my tag has many nasty comments on that forum. I got quite frustrated towards the end.  Without war thunder I would have been too daunted to buy BOS or have discovered DCS. Heck, I'm even almost about to buy the huey. I never thought I'd be flying virtual helos again!

 

War Thunder has its place in the flying games lineup. They also did a fairly good job with the plane pits, the 3d modelling and the graphics look great. I learnt a huge amount about new planes like the mc 202 that I really want a BOS or DCS level aircraft to play with. Their combined arms mode with ships, tanks and planes could be quite fun if it ever gets made.

 

Because of War Thunder i've even gone to plane museums to see the real things. I'd never play War Thunder again and I deleted my account ages ago because of mentioned reasons. 

 

People should not shun war thunder players. They are just people trying to find what they are interested in and should be welcomed rather than boxed into one group. More people playing war thunder could mean more people enjoying flight games, finding the limits of it and moving on to other more advanced flight games.

 

So mouse support is good. People can at least fly the game and if they like it enough they can buy a joystick.

Edited by deleted@30725
SCG_Space_Ghost
Posted (edited)

Oh yeah, because War Thunder is the start of that and the only place that ever occurs. It's been happening since the days of Air Warrior - even the most self righteous historically accurate "I want the game to be exactly like it was for Herr WumpyPants did in 1943 right down to PSI pressure markings on the tires" that gets indignant at anyone who is less than completely historical will be caught in that ever present conga line to shoot down the sole opposing aircraft that ventured low into enemy territory.

 

War Thunder is not exclusive to this behavior, it is as common, and prevalent, in all air combat sims as complaining about the flight models.

 

I'm not going to say you're wrong but I will say that WT condones those behaviors and rewards players to committing them.

 

Do we do that here, FM? Do we condone ramming and shoulder shooting? Do you like getting shot down from a target fixated herp-derp, let alone rammed by said herp-derp?  :huh:

 

Stories like Bunny's make sense. Bunny grew a genuine interest and came to us as a result. Bunny, Celestiale... Guys who have a genuine interest are a rare anomaly in WT's community. You and many others think you want WT's masses, that it will somehow save the developer and the genre, but I think if they came that you would reconsider.

 

have flown WT. I know how it plays. I've played that game. Don't be angry at me for my opinion - I am genuinely just having an opinion. 

Edited by FalkeEins
SCG_Space_Ghost
Posted

I couldn't get this part in before the timer ended...

 

In addition to the point above, I would be willing to venture out and say that some of the more anomalous WT players who have joined our community likely did so to get away from WT's community.

  • 1CGS
Posted

There's nothing wrong with having mouse control. It works well in RoF, and it would probably work well here with BoS. 

 

 

That, and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one here who first played flight sims with nothing more than a keyboard and mouse. I played and enjoyed Aces of the Pacific for a good while before I finally got my first joystick. 


 

 

And if people can't afford a $30 flight stick, they shouldn't have a computer in the first place.

 

And it's snobbish elitism like this that drives people away from the hobby, not towards it. 

  • Upvote 3
GOAT-ACEOFACES
Posted

Its a win win, more mouse pilots, more easy kills! ;)

II./JG77_Manu*
Posted (edited)

I'm not going to say you're wrong but I will say that WT condones those behaviors and rewards players to committing them.

 

Do we do that here, FM? Do we condone ramming and shoulder shooting? Do you like getting shot down from a target fixated herp-derp, let alone rammed by said herp-derp?  :huh:

 

Stories like Bunny's make sense. Bunny grew a genuine interest and came to us as a result. Bunny, Celestiale... Guys who have a genuine interest are a rare anomaly in WT's community. You and many others think you want WT's masses, that it will somehow save the developer and the genre, but I think if they came that you would reconsider.

 

have flown WT. I know how it plays. I've played that game. Don't be angry at me for my opinion - I am genuinely just having an opinion. 

 

I think in arcade and historic mode you are completely right. But my experience with the simulator community was very different to yours. When i started playing the simulator mode (some 18 month ago now) i had literally no idea about how to manage a plane, even in the simplified WT environment. In the beginning i sucked hard, but i guess that's normal when starting such complex thing like flight simulation. Here and there i asked a few questions, and there were a lot of guys very polite, answering, persuading me more or less to join them in their TS channel, and they guided me threw that stuff, teached me over weeks. I think i would have taken a lot more time to learn simming without their help. In fact i am still flying with a lot of them, persuaded them myself to join BoS/Clod/DCS, and guided them through the more complex sims, that's apparentey how life plays  :biggrin: . A lot of different guys from a lot of different countries, who didn't know each other, but right now i would consider them "buddies", which if you had told me a year before that, i would have regarded as "very weird". And they all came from WT simulator mode. Wasn't teamkilled or shoulder shooted as well, only very very rarely (talking only about simulator mode all the time, of course). That was all before the arcade kids discovered how to exploit the heavy bombers..from then on all went down the river. To be honest, i haven't play it for over a year know, so i don't know how it is right now. But back then, most of them were very mature..it was still a simulator, and i think there are not a lot of "kids" or mentally deficient people, who have the patience to go over a hundred hours to just learn basic things like takeoff and landing. 

I think mouse control is not a bad implementation. Like said before, DCS, which is considered the reference simulator, has it from the beginning. But i also don't think, that mouse control will draw to many people, if any. You have such a disadvantage, i tried it a few times in War Thunder before buying my first joystick. But i would have never spend 50 bucks for a simulation, without having a joystick, or any clue how it will work without a joystick. With War Thunder you were able to try this mode for free, and if you like it-->buy joystick. But i think any "casual player" who considers to fly simulation, will first try it in war thunder, and then think about buying a joystick or not. And if he bought a joystick, he might consider buying proper flight sims. But i think it won't be the other way round. 

Edited by Celestiale
-NW-ChiefRedCloud
Posted

Please download the update for ROF and try it

 

Point well taken. Thanks ....

 

Chief

Posted (edited)

They next time you get shot down from shoulder fire or rammed from behind you will know...

Or maybe start to...

Because as we all know, ramming NEVER happened in real life WWII air combat.

 

And ramming is actually one of the most despised acts in WT, so...

 

And it's snobbish elitism like this that drives people away from the hobby, not towards it.

 

Exactly.

Edited by Cybermat47
Posted

So Red Baron, all of the MS combat flight sims, Red Baron 3d, IL2, and DCS all have mouse control.  But if BoS implements it, then that's it, it isn't a sim!  Yeah, ok. 

  • Upvote 3

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