Shamefully noobish question

[D_Konig]

This is going to sound terrible but..

 

I primarily fly 109s but this applies to everything. What am I supposed to be doing with the rudder ?

 

I rarely use it besides taxiing and takeoff. Ive played with it a bit in the air but not exactly sure what it should be affecting or really what to do with it.

 

I dont have rudder pedals just using the stick grip for it for now but I really feel as though im missing something here.

 

Thanks, fire away at my gross incompetence lol

 

Cheers

[Bearcat]

You are. Rudder controls Yaw.

 

Flight Dynamics Explained

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Use it mostly to initiate turns. Step on the pedal (twist) to the side you are turning in conjunction with your ailerons. Otherwise you are using it correctly.

 

As an experiment, practice using it a bit at various speeds and deflection angles while straight and level to see what it does. It will affect both yaw and roll. After you have that under your belt use it in conjunction with ailerons. Your roll rate will be higher than ailerons alone. Lastly, learn how to use opposite rudder for slips and turns out of plane (mostly non-combat moves) for losing speed and or altitude. I'm sure YouTube has some tutorials on slips.

 

And buy some quality pedals as soon as you are able. They work better than most twist grips and are definitely more intuitive overall.

[D_Konig]

How am I supposed to interpret the rudder panel in the 109 G2 for example? Should I be trying to fly with the rudder straight the whole time? It didnt seem to affect my overall speed or direction much when I played with it last night (keeping the ball centered on the panel) or just letting it go.

 

It's not very practical to do with a stick, you kinda need the foot pedals. I just got a hotas setup this year, I'll never go back.

 

EDIT:

 

Is there any pedals anyone would reccommend? I have the Saitek x55 hotas, Its worked great for me. Should I stick with that brand or will mixing and matching possibly cause software issues..

Edited January 27, 2015 by Mack674

[Willy__]

How am I supposed to interpret the rudder panel in the 109 G2 for example? Should I be trying to fly with the rudder straight the whole time? It didnt seem to affect my overall speed or direction much when I played with it last night (keeping the ball centered on the panel) or just letting it go.

 

 

You should look for the "slipball", its below the artificial horizon. To make the most of the engine power and get the maximum speed and performance you should always try to keep the slipball centered. If the balls in on the right, you should apply some right rudder, if the ball is on the left, apply some left rudder. Due to torque effects of the engine, you will notice that on high speeds the 109 tends to keep the ball on the left (hence, thats why the pilots needed to always keep pressure on the left rudder).

 

An example:

 

Personally I use Saitek Combat Pedals, I find it them to be good enough for me, perfomance and price wise. Another options you should look for are CH pedals or if you want to really invest into it, the MFG Crosswind pedals.

Edited January 27, 2015 by istruba

[D_Konig]

Thanks istruba thats what I was looking for...

 

yeah I definitely need pedals trying to fly that way all the time with a joystick is painful and trying to maneouver keeping your hand twisted halfway to the right or something because of the wind is just... no thanks.

 

EDIT: Also, before I forget to ask again - the 109s in this game, is there on trimming options for them? Sometimes I find topics of guys talking about trim options but the game never lets me - like the planes arent equipped with them or something. Or are they just adjusting the flaps?

 

Whenever I set anything to rudder or aeiloron trim for example it just never works... does in other planes and russian aircraft but the 109s seem devoid of it.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Mack674

[Willy__]

EDIT: Also, before I forget to ask again - the 109s in this game, is there on trimming options for them? Sometimes I find topics of guys talking about trim options but the game never lets me - like the planes arent equipped with them or something. Or are they just adjusting the flaps?

 

109's only had elevator trim. It had some aileron and rudder trim tabs that could be adjusted by ground crew BEFORE take-off, but not on the fly, like the elevator trim. 

Edited January 27, 2015 by istruba

[D_Konig]

Okay that makes sense - but the trim options still dont work on my controls. Or do you just mean the flap position?

Maybe i'm missing something, I'll check again later.

 

Thanks for the help!

[oneeyeddog]

How am I supposed to interpret the rudder panel in the 109 G2 for example? Should I be trying to fly with the rudder straight the whole time? It didnt seem to affect my overall speed or direction much when I played with it last night (keeping the ball centered on the panel) or just letting it go.

 

It's not very practical to do with a stick, you kinda need the foot pedals. I just got a hotas setup this year, I'll never go back.

 

EDIT:

 

Is there any pedals anyone would reccommend? I have the Saitek x55 hotas, Its worked great for me. Should I stick with that brand or will mixing and matching possibly cause software issues..

Its not necessary to stick with any one particular brand, Mack. You should definitely be able to tell a difference when you activate your rudder, using a twist stick or rudder pedals so maybe you should go into your control panel, devices and printers and right clik on your Saitek joystick and check to see if your are getting a proper response from the twist function of the stick.

[Willy__]

Okay that makes sense - but the trim options still dont work on my controls. Or do you just mean the flap position? Maybe i'm missing something, I'll check again later.

 

Do you mean your elevator trim is not working for the 109 ? If thats it, that must be some keymapping problem. Problem is that devs decided to keep different key bindings for different trims systems, the 109's and 190 had horizontal stabilizers, so unlike the russians planes which had small tabs that moved when you adjusted the trim, in the 109/190 the whole elevator change its Angle of Attack. Basically it has the same function of the trim tabs, with some advantages but anyways, back on the key bindings.

 

You should look for the Adjustable Horizontal Stabiliser or something like that on the options (I cant play the game right now, and I dont remember the exact words on the options), it should be 2 options, one is used for the 109 elevator trim and can be binded to two buttons or an axis. The other option is used on the 190 and can only be binded to two buttons.

 

Was that your problem ? Hope it helps! 

 

-edit: correcting some typos, gosh I hate this keyboard.

Edited January 27, 2015 by istruba

[D_Konig]

Oh the twist stick works for sure, I just meant performance wise out of hte plane I didnt notice much difference..I didnt try for too long though and I am still fairly new at this only 50 hours or so.

 

One last question, about the picutre istruba posted in the 109 G2s  and others with the same panel, where the ball is in the center theres also like a stick that wobbles back and forth across the panel - what is this indicating or measuring? Wind?

[Willy__]

One last question, about the picutre istruba posted in the 109 G2s  and others with the same panel, where the ball is in the center theres also like a stick that wobbles back and forth across the panel - what is this indicating or measuring? Wind?

 

 

Its a turn indicator, it indicates when you're turning (using you ailerons). Used mostly when in really bad weather conditions or when flying through clouds.

 

Also, it was more commonly used on the early planes, and as the war progressed they changed it by the (better) artificial horizon.

Edited January 27, 2015 by istruba

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

I use Ch product for everything but my rudders. I have the saitek ones because I like the wider stance over the CH ones.

http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-Pro-Flight-Rudder-Pedals/dp/B000H67DDY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422389566&sr=8-1&keywords=saitek+rudder+peddles

I have had mine for more than 4 years with no problem, pot's spiking or anything.. they just work. (I wore out two X-52's in two years, they would work then the pot's would start messing up so I switched to CH products.

Two other things the peds help with is cross control and side slipping. Sure you can do it with a twisty stick but its easier with the peds. Cross control, rudder left, stick right or the other way around to slow down and/or track, slip right or left. Comes in handy with a guy on your six and you have a rear gunner or you just want slow down for a bit to force an overshoot.

[indiaciki]

The turn indicator is actually quicker to respond and better to read than the artificial horizon if you intend to fly straight. That's why all modern airplanes that have an artificial horizon still have a turn indicator.

Edited January 27, 2015 by indiaciki

[Potenz]

nothing to be ashamed of, we all been there in a moment

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Mack, I fly mainly Russian so my advice would be to forget about the rudder and to fly low, slow and level. 

 

Otherwise, do what these guys suggest.

[D_Konig]

Mack, I fly mainly Russian so my advice would be to forget about the rudder and to fly low, slow and level. 

 

Otherwise, do what these guys suggest.

Okay man I'll try to -. .... 

 

waaaaiiitttt a secconnddd.....

 

DAS IST RUSKIE!

[indiaciki]

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

It is also important to note that the Bf 109 and Fw 190 don't use elevator trim. They both have STABILIZER trim. The Bf has a manual wheel and the Fw has electronic trim. Each must be programmed seperately in your controls. The nice thing is elevator trim (Russian), stabilizer trim (Bf) and electronic stabilizer trim (Fw) can all be programed to the same key(s) for up and down. That way you don't have to memorize different keys for essentially the same outcome (for all practical purposes).

[D_Konig]

Oh perhaps thats why? the manual trip option maybe I didnt map.... the 190 stabilizer works fine.. I'll check, thanks!

[BlackDevil]

Dont take CH pedals

[LeonMadDog]

OK, one handy application of the rudder is to aim your guns at opponent when making a head on pass. Try it. I find it very effective. No need to roll.

[ST_ami7b5]

OK, one handy application of the rudder is to aim your guns at opponent when making a head on pass. Try it. I find it very effective. No need to roll.

... and also to 'fine tune'/correct your aiming when attacking moving ground targets.

Edited January 28, 2015 by ST_ami7b5

[Jade_Monkey]

I dont use the rudder much while im up on the air tbh.

 

I got the Saitek Combat pedals and returned them after a month. Just not my thing.

 

It gave me a lot of complications with the inputs and they were not very comfortable. 

Worst of all, I felt embarrassed for spending almost $200 on pedals that i didnt use much.

 

Obviously this is just a personal account, but i thought it would be good to have a different opinion on the thread.

I wish I read something that wasn't "Pedals are the best thing in the world" before I bought them.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Other than using rudder for coordinated turns (keeping the nose from rising off the horizon), they are very useful when strafing.  Slight inputs allow a wider kill zone.

[voncrapenhauser]

OK, one handy application of the rudder is to aim your guns at opponent when making a head on pass. Try it. I find it very effective. No need to roll.

+1

Rudder is needed when harmonising controls also for smooth flight, take offs and landings, especially with cross wind component. 

Definitely Rudder is useful when correcting your aim. 

I have CH rudder pedals and they work fine(also have toe brakes) but If I were to buy again I would definitely go with pedals further apart as CH are close together. 

Most fighters have further apart.

... and also to 'fine tune'/correct your aiming when attacking moving ground targets.

+1

Edited January 28, 2015 by voncrapenhauser

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Except for countering P Factor, most rudder movements will be pretty small.

[voncrapenhauser]

Except for countering P Factor, most rudder movements will be pretty small.

+1

[haltux]

 

I dont have rudder pedals just using the stick grip for it for now but I really feel as though im missing something here.

 

 

You are missing something in terms or realism and immersion, however practically it is not clear that you will fly differently using pedals than using stick rotation for the rudders. If you don't really know what to do with the rudder on stick rotation, you won't know what to do with the rudder on pedals. Somhow stick rotation is even easier to use.

 

Something else you should be aware of: it not so obvious to have a compfortable position with pedals, depending on your height. In a real plane you sit low, with legs stretched out. On a standard desk chair, this is not the case so pushing pedals far away can be difficult. Last thing: pedals are not compatible with office chairs on wheels...

[9./JG27golani79]

 Last thing: pedals are not compatible with office chairs on wheels...

 

Depends - if you have a carpet in the room then even this combination will work.

At least it works for me.

[Willy__]

I really think that the rudder pedals help with the aiming, especially for fine tuning your shots, other than that it helps when to flying coordinated, example: in 109 at high speeds you have to push the left pedal a little, and keep it there, I find extremely uncomfortable to that with the twist on the joy, especially for extended periods.

 

Although it is true what haltux said. Ergonomic wise, its rather difficult to find a comfortable position to use the rudders with an office chair. About the wheels... I use my pedals with a wheeled office chair and I have no problems, but thats because I have a carpet below my chair, but I think it really depends on the type of your floor and the fixation of the pedals. I find it that if you dont fix the pedals in place, or if you dont use them right against a wall I feel that I could push the whole "hardware" backwards instead of pushing the pedal itself.

Edited January 28, 2015 by istruba

[StG2_Manfred]

Cheap and good option for office chairs with wheels (and offices without carpet of course )

 

[voncrapenhauser]

You are missing something in terms or realism and immersion, however practically it is not clear that you will fly differently using pedals than using stick rotation for the rudders. If you don't really know what to do with the rudder on stick rotation, you won't know what to do with the rudder on pedals. Somhow stick rotation is even easier to use.

 

Something else you should be aware of: it not so obvious to have a compfortable position with pedals, depending on your height. In a real plane you sit low, with legs stretched out. On a standard desk chair, this is not the case so pushing pedals far away can be difficult. Last thing: pedals are not compatible with office chairs on wheels...

I used to use the twist stick option and got on just fine,....Until I started flying IRL then I found it harder for some reason.

I got rudder pedals and never looked back.

But yes I agree the desk set up is not ideal and in that case the twist option would probably work better.

I guess its whatever your comfortable with?

Depends - if you have a carpet in the room then even this combination will work.

At least it works for me.

Works for me too.

[Willy__]

Oh, I forgot to mention: taxing with pedals is miles better and easier (at least for me) compared to the twist on the stick.

[voncrapenhauser]

Cheap and good option for office chairs with wheels (and offices without carpet of course )

 

Excellent and cheap solution.

Thanks Manfred.

[Sokol1]

Pedal for office chair "virpilov". Foot movement vertical, not horizontal.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-979-0-85819300-1422404728.jpg

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

You are missing something in terms or realism and immersion, however practically it is not clear that you will fly differently using pedals than using stick rotation for the rudders. If you don't really know what to do with the rudder on stick rotation, you won't know what to do with the rudder on pedals. Somhow stick rotation is even easier to use.

 

Something else you should be aware of: it not so obvious to have a compfortable position with pedals, depending on your height. In a real plane you sit low, with legs stretched out. On a standard desk chair, this is not the case so pushing pedals far away can be difficult. Last thing: pedals are not compatible with office chairs on wheels...

I bolted my pedals to a 2x4 platform to get a little elevation and my office chair works fine but it's in a rug.

[Jade_Monkey]

cb, srry about your experience with pedals

 

i think u r in an ultra-minuscule minority....

 

Well, it's just not for me...

 

Also, I forgot to mention that I was on a chair with wheels like above, and it was also making it harder.

 

Anyways, I'm happy now as I am.

 

I will use that money towards some decent VR when they are more polished.

[SharpeXB]

On my CH pedals I use a piece of rubber shelf liner mesh underneath. It sticks them to the floor and they don't slide at all. A "race car" style office chair with an adjustable height you can lower works good for the right cockpit feel.

[unreasonable]

I have the opposite problem from the office chair issue - I have a heavy wooden chair I had made locally for flight simming (furniture is cheap here), but my pedals tended to slide around on the wooden floor. Solution is double backed Velcro strips. Helps if you own your own place and do not have to explain nasty strips of missing floor varnish to your landlord.

 

Edit - just seen SharpeXB's solution to same problem, sounds less destructive than mine.

Edited January 30, 2015 by unreasonable