4thFG_Cpt_Godfrey Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 This is my first post because I've never felt the need to post a thing until now. Make no mistake, this is a rant (for a friend and me) and its clearly an issue that needs to change. My friend and I are not new to flight sim's, so we know how to fly, fight, and maneuver. The MG's, cannons, and damage needs a overhaul. The 20mm cannons on the German planes cause little damage, certainly not enough to bring down a plane like the Russian cannons do. One hit from a Russian cannon is almost catastrophic every time. And it was today. I hit a Yak that was attacking a 109 and he began to smoke and lose fuel. His left wing was hit hard. Well, at least one would think. We could see the strikes, puff of smoke when hit. Yet, he continued on as if nothing happened, turning left and right, extending out, chasing the poor 109 and causing untold damage. This chase lasted a couple of minutes. I continued to chase him, hitting him now and then until another Yak or LaGG showed up, hard to say which one because my participation in this fight soon came to an abrupt halt. At that time I was in a dive of approx. 45-50 degrees. My friend warned me to break which I did. I looked up through the top of the canopy and saw the other plane inverted, head on and shoot, a snap shot and to be sure a well placed one. With that one squeeze of the trigger, my right wing came off. He was only in position to fire for a brief second. And the cursing began. My friend managed to work his way onto the tail of my adversary. Again, while he inflicted damage to the aircraft, it did not matter. This plane went on to shoot down another 109 plus my friend while suffering damage that brought down only what can be described as German paper airplanes. I'm no expert, but this can not be right in anyone's world. I paid almost $100 for this, supported the development. And for what, to be frustrated? Something must be done. We implore the developers! And don't get me started on the 190. Gave the extra money and I just pi$$ed it away.
-NW-ChiefRedCloud Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I've got nothing to say here but perhaps do you have a video of this? Visuals usually speak for themselves. Chief
BraveSirRobin Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I recently killed 4 Russian planes in a single mission in a 109. I'm expecting them to post soon on the forum about the unfair firepower of the 109. 3
-NW-ChiefRedCloud Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I recently killed 4 Russian planes in a single mission in a 109. I'm expecting them to post soon on the forum about the unfair firepower of the 109. This is only because you cheated by painting your 109 up like a Yak and they were confused ..... Just kidding of course. Chief
impulse200 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 OP, take a look at damage model and thank god that developers here decided not to increase durability of crafts because of insane flight hours and combat encounters of virpils
Bearcat Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Was this AI...? If so AI is a lot more accurate. 1
BraveSirRobin Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Was this AI...? If so AI is a lot more accurate. And they're a lot less likely to complain on the forum when you shoot them down. 5
4thFG_Cap_D_Gentile Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 This is my first post because I've never felt the need to post a thing until now. Make no mistake, this is a rant (for a friend and me) and its clearly an issue that needs to change. My friend and I are not new to flight sim's, so we know how to fly, fight, and maneuver. The MG's, cannons, and damage needs a overhaul. The 20mm cannons on the German planes cause little damage, certainly not enough to bring down a plane like the Russian cannons do. One hit from a Russian cannon is almost catastrophic every time. And it was today. I hit a Yak that was attacking a 109 and he began to smoke and lose fuel. His left wing was hit hard. Well, at least one would think. We could see the strikes, puff of smoke when hit. Yet, he continued on as if nothing happened, turning left and right, extending out, chasing the poor 109 and causing untold damage. This chase lasted a couple of minutes. I continued to chase him, hitting him now and then until another Yak or LaGG showed up, hard to say which one because my participation in this fight soon came to an abrupt halt. At that time I was in a dive of approx. 45-50 degrees. My friend warned me to break which I did. I looked up through the top of the canopy and saw the other plane inverted, head on and shoot, a snap shot and to be sure a well placed one. With that one squeeze of the trigger, my right wing came off. He was only in position to fire for a brief second. And the cursing began. My friend managed to work his way onto the tail of my adversary. Again, while he inflicted damage to the aircraft, it did not matter. This plane went on to shoot down another 109 plus my friend while suffering damage that brought down only what can be described as German paper airplanes. I'm no expert, but this can not be right in anyone's world. I paid almost $100 for this, supported the development. And for what, to be frustrated? Something must be done. We implore the developers! And don't get me started on the 190. Gave the extra money and I just pi$$ed it away. Couldn't agree more, they yank those Yaks and La's around belching mutiple colors of smoke behind them. Never thought I'd be flying over Stalingrad in a 109, against early Russian planes feeling like being in a Brewster Buffalo over Singapore fighting Zekes. And then the wobbling, didn't the developers never try to kick the rudder in a real plane and let go of it? Wobbling at 400+ kph nothing moves the nose of a plane at that speed but a CB, hire a 172 and kick the rudder and let go please. MJ 2
4thFG_Cpt_Godfrey Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 No Bearcat,,,human flown. Wish I did have a video of it RedCloud. Didn't think about it honestly
Leaf Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Subjective as this may be, Yaks seem to be able to absorb vast amounts of damage. Much more than La 5's or Lagg's. That's my impression, anyway. 2
Livai Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 The Russian 20mm cannon has a higher fire rate than the German 20mm.
Leaf Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 The Russian 20mm cannon has a higher fire rate than the German 20mm. And no Minengeschoss. They should cancel out.
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) The Russian 20mm cannon has a higher fire rate than the German 20mm. When you combine that with the lack of a convincing ballistic model that is evident with the Russian equipment their weapons are (I know, I know...) over performing. Honestly, that higher firing rate should work against the effectiveness of the cannon at mid-to-distant range... However, it doesn't... And no Minengeschoss. They should cancel out. And they likely would if the Russian equipment wasn't lacking a convincing ballistic model. Do either of you guys have any data on the velocity of the rounds in flight? Edited January 20, 2015 by FalkeEins
Livai Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 And no Minengeschoss. They should cancel out. No Minengeschoss here. Only for Russian and Germans everytime the same Ammo type 1. High Explosive (HE) shell 2. Armor-piercing (AP) shell Lets put this together to create a single bullet from 2. + 1. = Armour Piercing High Explosive(APHE) and called it the Minengeschoss
Matt Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Actually, the ammo belt on the German cannons (excluding gondalas on the 109) is HE/AP/HE, on the Russians it's AP/HE/AP. Not sure why they made it like this, considering that the ammo mix is not close to being historical anyway for whatever reason (adding accurate loadouts wouldn't be too hard with the system used in BoS, it's a matter of minutes to add a new ammo type), but that might make a difference. I still one shot enough Russian planes with the German fighters. He was only in position to fire for a brief second. That could be enough time for a dozen 20mm rounds. Or if it was a LaGG-3, maybe he had a 23mm or even 37mm cannon. Edited January 20, 2015 by Matt
Y-29.Silky Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Thank you! I'm not the only one who noticed this, I made a post about this not too long ago but got flammed by the usual "snipers" who say they tear wings off every time. Anyways, the German 20mm's do little damage and the Russian engines just keep trucking along. I sat in QMB for HOURS testing this,especially the 7.92's vs the 20's.. The 20's are basically worthless but many people are mistaken because they don't realize they're shooting both rounds at the same time, it's the 7.92's doing the damage, not the 20's. If people want video, I'll get some.
Dakpilot Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Thank you! I'm not the only one who noticed this, I made a post about this not too long ago but got flammed by the usual "snipers" who say they tear wings off every time. Anyways, the German 20mm's do little damage and the Russian engines just keep trucking along. I sat in QMB for HOURS testing this,especially the 7.92's vs the 20's.. The 20's are basically worthless but many people are mistaken because they don't realize they're shooting both rounds at the same time, it's the 7.92's doing the damage, not the 20's. If people want video, I'll get some. Please, any complaints/concerns are just anecdotal until backed up by some hard realistic info Cheers Dakpilot
BraveSirRobin Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I'd be very interested to see data that shows the German 20s are not effective, because that has been the opposite of my experience.
Finkeren Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Sorry OP but you're painting a picture I can't recognise. Just today I killed 7 (yes 7) VVS fighters in one SP mission with the 109F-4. There seems to be a slight difference in dispersion between the MG 151 and the ShVAK, but other than that they seem similar to me.
Brano Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Its highly biased! No matter which side I fly! fits here perfectly 2
BraveSirRobin Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Its highly biased! No matter which side I fly! fits here perfectly It is! I usually kill what I hit no matter which side I'm on. The only problem is the hitting things part...
BzKBravoZulu Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Ag shame, do you need a tissue. Not happy with the lighter weight fighter that has better ... well, EVERYTHING. Upset with the Lagg's 1 machine gun and 1 canon ... Clearly you don't fly much for the VVS or you'll know that the 109's canons and other assorted armaments are extremely effective. Still not happy, well why not strap on a couple MORE canons... It'll still be better at EVERYTHING than the Lagg... I am so sick of this... Fine, let's make it more realistic, nerf the VVS canon for it's implied slight to you and make it more to your liking... Then let every VVS pilot have 9 AI wingmen to make it more realistic to the actual historical figures and see how you go. Hey, it's all about realism. Man, you guys just don't know when you've got it good. I can't say for sure... 'cause I don't post unsubstantiated impressions and lay them out as fact... But maybe, just maybe the much heavier construction of the Lagg helps absorb a bit more punishment than the much lighter, thin skinned 109 which gives you the better EVERYTHING that you enjoy so much. Stop whining or better yet, man up and come fly for the overpowered VVS. (Just don't tell the other guys, it's a secret.)
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) -snip- Man, you guys just don't know when you've got it good. -snip- Nobody is concerned with "good." It seems that everybody in this thread is concerned with whether or not things are right and historical... Even including the guys who didn't come in to the thread to agree with OP. Don't like the thread? Don't care for the opinions of others especially when they differ from yours? Don't want to participate in the thread without throwing a hissy because they (yeah, those guys...) are complaining that the German machines are not performing historically again? It's a two-way street, bud. The door is that way - you may even be able to find an "OP Lolwaffles" thread to jump in to. -----> -snip- I can't say for sure... 'cause I don't post unsubstantiated impressions and lay them out as fact... -snip- -snip- Not happy with the lighter weight fighter that has better ... well, EVERYTHING. Upset with the Lagg's 1 machine gun and 1 canon ... Clearly you don't fly much for the VVS or you'll know that the 109's canons and other assorted armaments are extremely effective. Still not happy, well why not strap on a couple MORE canons... It'll still be better at EVERYTHING than the Lagg... I am so sick of this... Fine, let's make it more realistic, nerf the VVS canon for it's implied slight to you and make it more to your liking... Then let every VVS pilot have 9 AI wingmen to make it more realistic to the actual historical figures and see how you go. Hey, it's all about realism. -snip- Huh... Is that right..? Edited January 20, 2015 by FalkeEins 1
voncrapenhauser Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Was this AI...? If so AI is a lot more accurate. +1 Yes way too accurate sometimes in campaign. Especially the PE2 gunners lol. I' wish I was that good. Today I attacked 3 pe2sfrom way above them and at an angle as always. Drilled one, he broke off then centred on the next after a wing over, hit him but good only to be taken out by a single burst in a glancing shot and went down in a fiery fireball thingy. . Yet when he's in my PE2 he can't hit the side of a barn from inside if he fires at all after I activate him???? That's AI for you I guess. At least it seems the same on the stuka or he111. Damm those gunners are good
No_85_Gramps Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Well, in the "fresh meat" server, that's what I feel like sometimes, I generally just fly the Yak, and not that well, and the 109's and 190's don't seem to have a problem getting me. Sometimes death is instantaneous, sometimes I manage to bail, and some times I actually shoot down a 109/190 or two. But, there are times when I feel the same about the 109/190, they seem to hang on forever regardless of how much you hit them and I'm sure there are a lot of other VVS flyers who would agree with me.
AA_Engadin Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I can´t fly the sim - HW related problem, plain BS out of date - but use to watch all of the famous MK.Mr.X russian pilot videos. And yesterday, while watching hin flying a Yak 1 you can see how he downs 109s from more than 400 m. away with less than a 1/2 second burst of his cannons. I am a thousand miles away from being an expert but that way of getting DOES LOOK UNREAL. So easy that it makes me - a regular german side flyer - be happy of staying away from BoS . AA_Engadin
No601_Prangster Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 If you really think that the Yak is so much better then just fly it instead. Come back and tell us all how many 109's you shot down.
Feathered_IV Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 If you really think that the Yak is so much better then just fly it instead. Come back and tell us all how many 109's you shot down. . Ha! Yes, exactly.
76SQN-FatherTed Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Its highly biased! No matter which side I fly! fits here perfectly Only sensible comment really. Two other things maybe happening: 1) lag (not lagg) is causing a disconnect between where your bullets seem to be going and where the game calculates they're going (same goes for your opponent just to compound this effect) 2) you need to accept that sometimes there are better fliers/shots than you out there.
Beazil Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Never had this experience here. Usually when I read threads like this (for many sims, not just this 9ne) there is a disconnect between what the pilot THINKs is happening and what actually is happening. Ie: connecting with 7.9s when you think you are hitting with 20s. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but given the experiences of myself and others, it is possible.
Rjel Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 And they're a lot less likely to complain on the forum when you shoot them down. Bada bing. Maybe we need a few more AI members around here just to smooth out some of the rough days once in a while.
SOLIDKREATE Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) If your opponent is not in the convergence zone, he won't be killed (quickly). You know when you got a good burst because you will hear a very noticeable crack with the combined sound of a thousand pebbles hitting a tin roof at the same time. I have killed Yak-s and La-La's before without MG151/20 gunpods. The LaGG is heavily armored and understandably more robust. And sometimes your connection speed has a hefty factor in the damage model. What you see and what is actually happening are two very different things. I'm not dismissing your account of the events that took place in your eyes. Could they be over performing? - Of course. We have seen this in Warthunder concerning Russian UFO's. I just don't think that is the case here IMO. Edited January 20, 2015 by SPEKTRE76
sallee Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I ran through the Soviet fighters in the campaign first and then the German ones...I have to say that my experience was that flying German was a piece of piss in comparison.
DeafBee Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 If you really think that the Yak is so much better then just fly it instead. Come back and tell us all how many 109's you shot down. So true Prangster.
Sokol1 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Mr.X has no problem with Bf 109 guns. Just 2 seconds do the work,
Jaeger55 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Couldn't agree more, they yank those Yaks and La's around belching mutiple colors of smoke behind them. Never thought I'd be flying over Stalingrad in a 109, against early Russian planes feeling like being in a Brewster Buffalo over Singapore fighting Zekes. And then the wobbling, didn't the developers never try to kick the rudder in a real plane and let go of it? Wobbling at 400+ kph nothing moves the nose of a plane at that speed but a CB, hire a 172 and kick the rudder and let go please. MJ Yep, the wobbling is STILL a problem
C-Bag Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Mr.X has no problem with Bf 109 guns. Just 2 seconds do the work, 'nuf said......
SvAF/F16_Dark_P Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I have no experience of online play in BoS so i cant say for sure, but i play other games and hacking are really popular now days... maybe he just used a aimbot?
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I have no experience of online play in BoS so i cant say for sure, but i play other games and hacking are really popular now days... maybe he just used a aimbot? Highly, highly, highly unlikely.
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