So You Think the Campaign (SP) Sucks? Here's a Challenge...

[JohnHardtack]

It is my experience that blanket criticisms rarely end up sounding like anything other than childish rants. Perhaps a more constructive approach that may be more helpful for the game designers and developers would be the 1) What? 2) Why? and 3) How It Could be Fixed format.

 

Who knows, maybe a list of relevant thoughts without flames or rants may get their attention. I'll start out here: (please follow my format, gentlemen, ladies)

 

1) What?

 

I flew a campaign mission on Full, Intercept, as Soviet in a LaGG-3. After 20 minutes of getting to the action point, I set up a BnZ attack on a Schwarm of Ju-87's at 1700 m altitude. I missed hitting my target Stuka because of a last minute "jink". Thwack! I lost my engine. I crashed, burned and died. No points. Total frustration.

 

2) Why?

 

After running the flight record, I didn't die because of anything that the Stukas did. It was a one shot from an AA battery out in the middle of nowhere.

 

3) How It Could be Fixed

 

Correct "laser accuracy" on AA fire. (unless the intention is to prevent "vulching" at an airfield spawn point. More applicable in MP though.)

 

I have a small request here. Could the moderators please delete any posts that don't follow the the format.

 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

So many of us have been there and done that. No, seriously... I suggest you actually go look for yourself before starting threads like these...

 

The "blanket criticism*" is what is left of 6 months of people trying to wrap their heads around what the hell happened here. It is the direct result of a developer team that  consistently chooses not to listen to its constituents, refuses to communicate and is otherwise entirely closed to any and all suggestions.

 

 

*Blanket criticism? Have you even read anything you've seen on these boards? Very little of the criticisms on these boards are "blanket criticisms" - the majority are well thought out, well researched, well practiced, well spoken, etc. I suggest you go back and spend some time reading - it doesn't look like you've been here very long and you may not be in the best position to make such sweeping assumptions.

 

[dburne]

And really by this point, it does no good obviously the ones that matter, do not really care.

Edited January 18, 2015 by dburne

[BlitzPig_EL]

2) Why?

 

 

Precisely.    Why indeed.

[Yakdriver]

Lemme play your game

 

1) What? 2) Why? and 3) How It Could be Fixed

 

1) What?

PURPOSE.

I can switch phases between flights, am not assigned unit nor plane, not even country.

 

2) Why?

This destroys the campaign element because i am not campaigning, not following events, but am merely "doing what i want" without Guidance.

Anything i do is irrelevant. I play the campaign for the Lolz and for the unlocks.

 

3) How It Could be Fixed

Give PURPOSE to my flying.

Let me Set up Pilot Profiles (Pilot Ivan) (Pilot Fritz)  [Pilot John Doe. Pilot Arthur McMillan] .
Let me Assign them to a Type of Unit (Fighter, Attack, Bomb, Transport) [The Unit i have no choice over, just as the Pilot could not chose where he wanted to go.]

Let that unit have many types of Missions (Bomber Pilots could be sent on a long distance, high altitude recce Mission. Sturmo Pilots could be asked to perform arty spotting, Transport Pilots do air drop as well as landing deliveries...)

Assign one or two types of Planes to my unit. - take note that i have bought the La and the Fw.

Let me follow my Pilot and Unit with relevant Stats, avatars and names.

Let a debriefing show me that the actions of the day sometimes have a direct impact on the front.

additional:

Pilot Roster on off switch
let new people join my unit, get XP let my fellow pilots die, let me get sent to the rear due to battle losses...
However this would require AI Pilots to obey orders in a swift, competent manner first.

 

additional II:

Tech limitations on off switch
Take note of the technical Limitations:  a LaGG with the 37mm Cannon should not be able to magically swap in/out a 20mm or a 23mm. [A190 with MG-FF should not be able to get the Cannons removed just because the Pilot says so?]

This would require a proper inventory of the Squad's material. You break many Planes, you will have no choice but to fly the ones that remain, like it or not.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Yakdriver

[33lima]

What Yakdriver said.

 

Apart from fixing bugs like post-takeoff AI crashes in some planes and similar issues or tweaks (slightly bigger formation sizes, for example), what's descibed above is precisely what BoS SP needs most for the forseeable future.

 

By all means finish the Ju 52...but  possibly-nice-to-have stuff like simulating aspects of oxygen supply are very small beer and should not be progressed at the expense of providing what BoS should have had from Day One - rather more of the recognisable features of a conventional SP campaign. Most notably, the ability to create pilot profiles, assign them to historical and historically-equipped and -based squadrons) and track the pilot's and unit's progress. It's with good reason that's always been the most popular and best-selling format for the SP campaign side of an aircombat sim (or game, whatever).

 

Yes this is a rather tired mantra by now but it needs re-stated from time to time, lest anybody think we've all 'Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Unlocks'.

Edited January 18, 2015 by 33lima

[=RvE=Windmills]

What

 

Not interested in SP

 

 

Why

 

Don't care about fighting bots, never have.

 

 

How it could be fixed

 

Allow me to fly in MP and unlock there, or just unlock everything by default. Real easy.

[CorsairHundo]

What

 

Not interested in SP

 

 

Why

 

Don't care about fighting bots, never have.

 

 

How it could be fixed

 

Allow me to fly in MP and unlock there, or just unlock everything by default. Real easy.

+1

Lemme play your game

 

1) What? 2) Why? and 3) How It Could be Fixed

 

1) What?

PURPOSE.

I can switch phases between flights, am not assigned unit nor plane, not even country.

 

2) Why?

This destroys the campaign element because i am not campaigning, not following events, but am merely "doing what i want" without Guidance.

Anything i do is irrelevant. I play the campaign for the Lolz and for the unlocks.

 

3) How It Could be Fixed

Give PURPOSE to my flying.

Let me Set up Pilot Profiles (Pilot Ivan) (Pilot Fritz)  [Pilot John Doe. Pilot Arthur McMillan] .

Let me Assign them to a Type of Unit (Fighter, Attack, Bomb, Transport) [The Unit i have no choice over, just as the Pilot could not chose where he wanted to go.]

Let that unit have many types of Missions (Bomber Pilots could be sent on a long distance, high altitude recce Mission. Sturmo Pilots could be asked to perform arty spotting, Transport Pilots do air drop as well as landing deliveries...)

Assign one or two types of Planes to my unit. - take note that i have bought the La and the Fw.

Let me follow my Pilot and Unit with relevant Stats, avatars and names.

Let a debriefing show me that the actions of the day sometimes have a direct impact on the front.additional:

Pilot Roster on off switch

let new people join my unit, get XP let my fellow pilots die, let me get sent to the rear due to battle losses...

However this would require AI Pilots to obey orders in a swift, competent manner first.

 

additional II:

Tech limitations on off switch

Take note of the technical Limitations:  a LaGG with the 37mm Cannon should not be able to magically swap in/out a 20mm or a 23mm. [A190 with MG-FF should not be able to get the Cannons removed just because the Pilot says so?]

This would require a proper inventory of the Squad's material. You break many Planes, you will have no choice but to fly the ones that remain, like it or not.

+1

[johncage]

yes lets deride 6+ months of suggestions, advisories, constructive criticism down to "childish rants" so everyone can use your new system.

 

because clearly if we don't put what, why, and how in bold, people won't be able to understand our points.

 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

because clearly if we don't put what, why, and how in bold, people won't be able to understand our points.

 

 

I think he just doesn't want to have to look for them. 

[kendo]

... It is the direct result of a developer team that  consistently chooses not to listen to its constituents, refuses to communicate and is otherwise entirely closed to any and all suggestions.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but this bit is complete BS - they have listened to and addressed MANY elements that have been brought to their attention, they communicate constantly, and they have listened to many suggestions.

 

And before you tag me with the usual fanboy / closed minded defender crap I'm not playing the game much myself atm and I HATE the unlocks and want them removed.

[BlackBadger]

So many elements break the gameplay for me. Every other day I fire bos up to see If I get hooked...

 

There are moments when I feel.... this isn't so bad I can actually enjoy this... but it's like eating a burned cake. Sooner or later you'll realize it's not the tasty cake you thought you were buying and the burned taste reminds you every bite you take.

 

To be factual these are my gripes:

 

- no custom graphic settings on release - even though it was proven that switching off SSAO fixes the blurry aircraft clouds problem. When a workaround was found, the devs actively fought it....what..?

- 2x time compression maximum on release - makes SP as fun as watching grass grow. It was taken away because of autopilot unlock grinding, when a super easy workaround would be disable autopilot when enemies are near.

- No campaign - just a plane tester/xp grinder frankenstein QMB like thing with no immersion 

- Flight models - these are good when the plane is flying in a straight line or very small AoA they actually convey a feeling of flight now after the latest patch. Also roll is nicely done, even though actual roll times seem to be off on a few planes. But things become wobbly and wonky and rubberbandy once you start actual combat maneuvers. Biggest problem is the weak rudder authority with little yaw and a lot of roll and it makes for very stiff flying. 

 

Had all of the above been fixed I wouldn't care if the game has unlocks or not. It could be actually fun unlocking things.

 

Lastly damage Model could do with some tweaking, more numerous and smaller hitboxes - that sort of thing to make it a bit more precise. Not every canon hit needs to be a critical. Bit less smoke. 

Sorry, but this bit is complete BS - they have listened to and addressed MANY elements that have been brought to their attention, they communicate constantly, and they have listened to many suggestions.

 

And before you tag me with the usual fanboy / closed minded defender crap I'm not playing the game much myself atm and I HATE the unlocks and want them removed.

 

I haven't watched the forums for long enough to know if they did or didn't listen to some suggestions. But arguably 2 of the biggest and most easily fixable problems have not been touched. Custom Graphics and time compression. After we had these in alpha/beta.  That is a bit strange for me.

[CorsairHundo]

Sorry, but this bit is complete BS - they have listened to and addressed MANY elements that have been brought to their attention, they communicate constantly, and they have listened to many suggestions.

 

And before you tag me with the usual fanboy / closed minded defender crap I'm not playing the game much myself atm and I HATE the unlocks and want them removed.

A monologue isn't communication if you're speaking of the weekly post. If they've communicated as good as you're saying, then all that good work has gone out the window with the frustration with unlocks, limited graphic options ....

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Sorry, but this bit is complete BS - they have listened to and addressed MANY elements that have been brought to their attention, they communicate constantly, and they have listened to many suggestions.

 

And before you tag me with the usual fanboy / closed minded defender crap I'm not playing the game much myself atm and I HATE the unlocks and want them removed.

 

I would agree if you were referring to their communication with the Russian part of our community - otherwise, no... They really haven't. 

 

 

A monologue isn't communication if you're speaking of the weekly post. If they've communicated as good as you're saying, then all that good work has gone out the window with the frustration with unlocks, limited graphic options ....

 

+1

 

You did get my point.

 

 

 

 

Don't need to come snoopin' here, H.   

Edited January 18, 2015 by FalkeEins

[KodiakJac]

Lemme play your game

 

1) What? 2) Why? and 3) How It Could be Fixed

 

1) What?

PURPOSE.

I can switch phases between flights, am not assigned unit nor plane, not even country.

 

2) Why?

This destroys the campaign element because i am not campaigning, not following events, but am merely "doing what i want" without Guidance.

Anything i do is irrelevant. I play the campaign for the Lolz and for the unlocks.

 

3) How It Could be Fixed

Give PURPOSE to my flying.

Let me Set up Pilot Profiles (Pilot Ivan) (Pilot Fritz)  [Pilot John Doe. Pilot Arthur McMillan] .

Let me Assign them to a Type of Unit (Fighter, Attack, Bomb, Transport) [The Unit i have no choice over, just as the Pilot could not chose where he wanted to go.]

Let that unit have many types of Missions (Bomber Pilots could be sent on a long distance, high altitude recce Mission. Sturmo Pilots could be asked to perform arty spotting, Transport Pilots do air drop as well as landing deliveries...)

Assign one or two types of Planes to my unit. - take note that i have bought the La and the Fw.

Let me follow my Pilot and Unit with relevant Stats, avatars and names.

Let a debriefing show me that the actions of the day sometimes have a direct impact on the front.

 

additional:

Pilot Roster on off switch

let new people join my unit, get XP let my fellow pilots die, let me get sent to the rear due to battle losses...

However this would require AI Pilots to obey orders in a swift, competent manner first.

 

additional II:

Tech limitations on off switch

Take note of the technical Limitations:  a LaGG with the 37mm Cannon should not be able to magically swap in/out a 20mm or a 23mm. [A190 with MG-FF should not be able to get the Cannons removed just because the Pilot says so?]

This would require a proper inventory of the Squad's material. You break many Planes, you will have no choice but to fly the ones that remain, like it or not.

 

Huge +1 to this post.

 

Well thought out and described, Yakdriver!

 

Why is this so obvious to everyone except 1CGS?  Its probably what about 90% of those who purchased BoS are looking for.

[Yakdriver]

LOL
yea, i aint the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

Its one of the basic questions to ask, when making a game: Why Would the Player Play this?
A set of rockets or a skin is not cutting it.

 

Need more content.
the flying part is there, just no reason to actually fire up this piece of kit, time and again.

Content such as a comprehensive, Purposeful SP campaign must come.
Soon.

And no, it is not our mission to build one with this piece of *honk* FMB...
 

[Jaws2002]

Sorry, but this bit is complete BS - they have listened to and addressed MANY elements that have been brought to their attention, they communicate constantly, and they have listened to many suggestions.

 

And before you tag me with the usual fanboy / closed minded defender crap I'm not playing the game much myself atm and I HATE the unlocks and want them removed.

 

Pretty much everyone hates the unlocks, and the lack of custom settings and we let them know one way or another, yet they don't give a crap.

 

So please tell me how is that first part of your post making sense.

 

Who did they listen to??????

Edited January 18, 2015 by Jaws2002

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I'll throw in my 2 cents as a guy that likes Co Op and such.

 

1.) What?

 

There's almost nothing to it.

 

2.)Why?

 

What you have is a theme park or museum themed in the Battle of Stalingrad. You're not "there." You go up in airplane several times to attack targets that spawn randomly out on the tundra or to shoot down a random flight of bombers. Starting from the beginning of the experience:

 

You start on a campaign map that has various points to take off from and battle lines showing the positions of both sides. However, you haven't any impact on this, what so ever. It's pointless. There's no involvement or influencing the battle in anyway at all. It certainly doesn't "reward the player" when you unlock anything, despite what Loft had stated.

 

There's nothing to involve you, at all. It's so bland that it might as well be FSX with weapons packs.

 

When you fly early war VVS or Luftwaffe out of the Ring of Death, there's no sense of desperation, no ways of getting this across to the player. You've always good full ammo, brand new aircraft, and perfectly fine runways to operate from. There's nothing to mark any meaningful progression in any way.

 

3.) How do we fix it?

 

Now, there's the $99.99 question.

 

It wasn't ready for release, pure and simple. I have to say that Ilya Muromets for RoF will be the last thing I buy from these devs until they can rectify BoS some how and not with more paid-for content, either.

 

The only sure way of improving the game is actually listening to the user base.

 

They didn't do it in 2013. they didn't do it in 2014. They won't do it in 2015. And then they leave the poor dudes moderating forums and such to clean up the mess in addition to devs that recognize the issue. I hope things turn out well for them, at least.

[BraveSirRobin]

It wasn't ready for release, pure and simple. 

 

LOL  I will never understand why so many people were expecting IL-2 1946 x 100 when this game was released.  You got early access.  You should have realized that we weren't getting IL-2 1946 x 100.  But if we compare this to the most recently released WW2 flight sim, the flight sim that so many people now think is better than sliced bread, this game is so much better than the release version of that game that comparing the two is laughable.  

[indiaciki]

1) What?

I don't fly the campaign.

 

2) Why?

Because time acceleration x 16 is disabled.

 

3) How do we fix it?

Unlock everything again as it was.

Edited January 19, 2015 by indiaciki

[dburne]

LOL  I will never understand why so many people were expecting IL-2 1946 x 100 when this game was released.  You got early access.  You should have realized that we weren't getting IL-2 1946 x 100.  But if we compare this to the most recently released WW2 flight sim, the flight sim that so many people now think is better than sliced bread, this game is so much better than the release version of that game that comparing the two is laughable.  

 

Um, who is comparing the two? I only see you ?

Who was expecting IL2 1946 x100?

 

Oh, you maybe are talking about the folks that are not happy with the unlocks, having to fly SP " campaign" to get them, forced graphics presets, etc...

 

However it is billed as the next iteration of the Il-2 name is it not?

Edited January 19, 2015 by dburne

[BraveSirRobin]

Who was expecting IL2 1946 x100?

 

 

 

You clearly were.  I've been banned from SimHQ, but [Edited]

 

What goes on on other forums has no bearing or merit here please leave it at the door.

You cannot apply motive to another poster.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Bearcat
Personal and irrelevant

[dburne]

You clearly were.  I've been banned from SimHQ, but I can still read the delusional nonsense you post in there.

 

Lol, really? Ok cool, I appreciate you following along!

[BraveSirRobin]

Lol, really? Ok cool, I appreciate you following along!

 

I wouldn't miss the display of delusional stupidity in there for anything.

 

What goes on on other forums needs to stay on those forums. Do not bring it here.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Bearcat

[dburne]

I wouldn't miss the display of delusional stupidity in there for anything.

 

 

Nice!

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

LOL  I will never understand why so many people were expecting IL-2 1946 x 100 when this game was released.  You got early access.  You should have realized that we weren't getting IL-2 1946 x 100.  But if we compare this to the most recently released WW2 flight sim, the flight sim that so many people now think is better than sliced bread, this game is so much better than the release version of that game that comparing the two is laughable.  

Nice enormous strawman you erected there, boyo. You put a lot of effort into trying to paint my statement as something I never did stated.

 

Where have I ever implied it'd be up to '46 in terms of content? No where. Go on, try and find it. You won't because I never did. In fact, if you go through my posting history, I've acknowledged this as an unnavoidable. I'm sorry if someone picking apart the shortcomings of your game upsets you so greatly, but reality is mean, son.

 

The game's campaign is utterly boring and those who enjoy MP have to slog through it. If you can't recognize the problem there, then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you as well as a religion you can join!

[BraveSirRobin]

Nice enormous strawman you erected there, 

 

I did nothing of the sort.  You got almost exactly the game they told you we were going to get.  If you were expecting more, then you completely ignored all the dev blogs they posted.  If you find that boring, that's on you.  I've been playing MP whenever there are enough people playing, and this game is anything but boring.