OK, so this is a game, not a sim...

[Bearcat]

Hopefully once the ME and Dserver are released depending on how they will work, this all could be turned around. I have unlocked all but the last two skins for every aircraft except the He-111 and I have done that so that once the ME and Dserver are released I will be able to access all the content. I think that once we get the influx of user made content into the sim thing will pick up.

 

Yes!! First love y very Hard to Forget

 

Il-2 1946 was undoubtedly the first step to the simulation of many virtual pilots

 

This situation will be difficul to repeat

 

IL2 46 is still IMO the finest WWII CFS ever made.. and will be for a long time. I do not think it will ever be duplicated.. and for me it is still quite enjoyable.

[voncrapenhauser]

Il 1946 is going to take some beating for sure, but with FM tweaking and features like 1946 BOS could be the best yet.

Even though 1946 FMs were a little iffy here and there It was genuinely fun to play which at times BOS is not for various reasons.

I feel the Dev's will address this given time.

Edited January 20, 2015 by voncrapenhauser

[dburne]

 

 

IL2 46 is still IMO the finest WWII CFS ever made.. and will be for a long time. I do not think it will ever be duplicated.. and for me it is still quite enjoyable.

 

Oh I wouldn't save never.

 

Look how popular it still is, even to this day. Obviously there is still interest in developing combat flight sims as well.

I think perhaps someday some developer may just go, hmmm, you know they had a really winning formula with 1946. Perhaps we should pursue that avenue...

 

I do not believe for a minute all hope of WWII combat flight simming for the future,  lives and dies with BOS.

[ST_ami7b5]

As I mentioned elsewhere, I am willing to pay a fair amount of money, say, 250-300 Eur for a 'modern' copy of IL*2 1946 with all the content it had/has.

No need to re-invent the wheel... 

That would be my ultimate sim.

[BraveSirRobin]

As I mentioned elsewhere, I am willing to pay a fair amount of money, say, 250-300 Eur for a 'modern' copy of IL*2 1946 with all the content it had/has.

No need to re-invent the wheel... 

That would be my ultimate sim.

 

I'm willing to pay a similar amount to purchase a unicorn.

[ST_ami7b5]

I'm willing to pay a similar amount to purchase a unicorn.

Very intelligent response, really.

(As usual).

Edited January 20, 2015 by ST_ami7b5

[Bearcat]

Il 1946 is going to take some beating for sure, but with FM tweaking and features like 1946 BOS could be the best yet.

Even though 1946 FMs were a little iffy here and there It was genuinely fun to play which at times BOS is not for various reasons.

I feel the Dev's will address this given time.

 

It could... it still could in spite of the missteps...  It all depends on the choices the team makes over the next 6-18 months whether or not BoS stands or is a 5 year flash in the pan.

 

Oh I wouldn't save never.

 

Look how popular it still is, even to this day. Obviously there is still interest in developing combat flight sims as well.

I think perhaps someday some developer may just go, hmmm, you know they had a really winning formula with 1946. Perhaps we should pursue that avenue...

 

I do not believe for a minute all hope of WWII combat flight simming for the future,  lives and dies with BOS.

 

When I say I don't think it will ever be duplicated I mean as far as that near perfect combination of online flexibility, content, scalability.. especially once you factor in mods. It covers from WWI to post Viet Nam. Decently. The WWII stuff at it's core is a textbook template for what it takes to make a decent flight sim. It is useable by al simmers from total noobs to hardcore enthusiasts.

 

As I mentioned elsewhere, I am willing to pay a fair amount of money, say, 250-300 Eur for a 'modern' copy of IL*2 1946 with all the content it had/has.

No need to re-invent the wheel... 

That would be my ultimate sim.

 

 

Yes but at that price point up front it won't sell well unless it was flawless.

[BraveSirRobin]

Absolutely no one is going to produce a flight sim with a sticker price of 200+ Eur.  It would be suicidal.  Not to mention that a modernized version of IL-2 1946 would probably cost a lot more than that.

[BlackDevil]

 

As I mentioned elsewhere, I am willing to pay a fair amount of money, say, 250-300 Eur for a 'modern' copy of IL*2 1946 with all the content it had/has.

No need to re-invent the wheel... 

That would be my ultimate sim.

 

A hundred planes of old IL2 were only possible, because all had the same FM, with different numbers. If you build FMs like in BoS or RoF, where every plane feels different, you would have to pay more than a thousand dollars for the "old IL2" at  this level.

Edited January 20, 2015 by BlackDevil

[ST_ami7b5]

More than thousand is too much for me.

Back to IL*2 1946 HSFX 7 then?

 

Maybe.

[dburne]

 

 

 

 

A hundred planes of old IL2 were only possible, because all had the same FM, with different numbers. If you build FMs like in BoS or RoF, where every plane feels different, you would have to pay more than a thousand dollars for the "old IL2" at  this level.

 

 

Interesting, lot more planes are in ROF, I would not consider it to be a very pricey sim.

[Bearcat]

More than thousand is too much for me.

Back to IL*2 1946 HSFX 7 then?

 

Maybe.

 

I never left IL2... The old girl is a little wide around the middle.. with some grey and some wrinkles.. but she is still a hottie to me.

 

Interesting, lot more planes are in ROF, I would not consider it to be a very pricey sim.

 

Me niether.. There are 39 planes in RoF.. Hopefully BoS will get to that point where we will have 39 or more aircraft in here to choose from..

[BraveSirRobin]

Interesting, lot more planes are in ROF, I would not consider it to be a very pricey sim.

 

WW2 planes are more expensive to produce than WW1 planes.  And there are a LOT more planes in IL-2 1946 than in RoF.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

My first love in WW2 aircombat was Pacific Fighters. And yes I want more and better single player content in BoS. What we have now is a huge letdown when in April 2013 the devs saw BoS primarily as a single player game: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?do=findComment&comment=11212

 

I agree completely

 

Hopefully once the ME and Dserver are released depending on how they will work, this all could be turned around. I have unlocked all but the last two skins for every aircraft except the He-111 and I have done that so that once the ME and Dserver are released I will be able to access all the content. I think that once we get the influx of user made content into the sim thing will pick up.

 

 

IL2 46 is still IMO the finest WWII CFS ever made.. and will be for a long time. I do not think it will ever be duplicated.. and for me it is still quite enjoyable.

 

I agree with both your points also Bear ..... But though I do not mean to derail this thread but only add my thoughts, 1C was on track to do just that, "Beat the OLd IL-2" when they created Cliffs of Dover. And yes we could argue man a point here but as the history of IL-2 goes, the Old IL-2 is the bench mark and even though I enjoy BoS (yes my disclaimer), CloD tried to raise the bar before for what ever reason, it was abandoned. BoS is the, so far, middle of the road successor of both. It is, as I've said before, a solid platform that will offer, I hope, a good chance to build off of. To develop into not a good product but a great product. Time will tell.

 

So it's sort of like enjoying Star Wars or Star Trek and wondering what, if anything, is next.

 

Chief

[ST_ami7b5]

Interesting, lot more planes are in ROF, I would not consider it to be a very pricey sim.

This.

 

I absolutely love RoF.

.. The old girl is a little wide around the middle.. with some grey and some wrinkles.. but she is still a hottie to me.

 

...

 

 

For me too.

Edited January 20, 2015 by ST_ami7b5

[dburne]

This.

 

I absolutely love RoF.

 

Yeah me too, as a SP guy ROF combined with PWCG absolutely rocks, and I continue to keep on playing it. And as my passion really lies with WWII, that is saying something.

[BraveSirRobin]

Interesting, lot more planes are in ROF, I would not consider it to be a very pricey sim.

 

List price for all the aircraft in RoF is over $300.  Buy 4+ and that number drops to $150.  Add the mods and it's probably over $200.  That's a lot for a flight sim.  And it would be more still if it was WW2 planes.

[LizLemon]

 

 

 

A hundred planes of old IL2 were only possible, because all had the same FM, with different numbers. If you build FMs like in BoS or RoF, where every plane feels different, you would have to pay more than a thousand dollars for the "old IL2" at this level.

Uhh what?

 

Il2 used a physically based model. If plugging in different numbers for wing area, airfoils, ect counts as the same fm then you can claim the same for every other fligt sim.

[Bearcat]

I agree completely

 

 

I agree with both your points also Bear ..... But though I do not mean to derail this thread but only add my thoughts, 1C was on track to do just that, "Beat the OLd IL-2" when they created Cliffs of Dover. And yes we could argue man a point here but as the history of IL-2 goes, the Old IL-2 is the bench mark and even though I enjoy BoS (yes my disclaimer), CloD tried to raise the bar before for what ever reason, it was abandoned. BoS is the, so far, middle of the road successor of both. It is, as I've said before, a solid platform that will offer, I hope, a good chance to build off of. To develop into not a good product but a great product. Time will tell.

 

So it's sort of like enjoying Star Wars or Star Trek and wondering what, if anything, is next.

 

Chief

 

CoD was too ambitious.. If they had just updated the graphics, FM,DM and physics using the CoD engine, kept the same basic feature set as IL2 possibly updating the MEs.. both quick and full.. ... and left the super complex stuff for later .. we would not be having this conversation...

 

List price for all the aircraft in RoF is over $300.  Buy 4+ and that number drops to $150.  Add the mods and it's probably over $200.  That's a lot for a flight sim.  And it would be more still if it was WW2 planes.

 

That is if you do not buy smart.. I have all the single seat fighters and all the mods for them plus the maps.. and I don't think I paid over $120

[BraveSirRobin]

That is if you do not buy smart.. I have all the single seat fighters and all the mods for them plus the maps.. and I don't think I paid over $120

 

If that's the case then you don't own the complete copy of RoF.  The complete game costs a lot more.  The people who bought the complete game are subsidizing your version.

[Yakdriver]

200 bucks for a flight sim, a high price?

What if you consider the main purpose, the reason for existance of your entire PC to be the flight sim?
200 Bucks is cheap.
1k or 1.5k divided between 1946 and BoS is where i am at, screens included.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

200 bucks for a flight sim, a high price?

 

What if you consider the main purpose, the reason for existance of your entire PC to be the flight sim?

200 Bucks is cheap.

1k or 1.5k divided between 1946 and BoS is where i am at, screens included.

 

 

 

Name a single flight sim that cost you $200 out of the box.  So far $90 is the most I have ever paid for a flight sim.  That makes it an expensive flight sim.  I'm not comparing it to the price I pay for oranges, I'm comparing it to other flight sims.  $200 would be a really expensive flight sim.  And even that would be cheap compared to what you would have to pay for a modernized copy of IL-2 1946.

[Bearcat]

If that's the case then you don't own the complete copy of RoF.  The complete game costs a lot more.  The people who bought the complete game are subsidizing your version.

 

No they aren't.. I bought what I wanted to buy .... You are looking at this all wrong... I don't need the complete RoF. If BoS was like RoF and it only came with say 6 aircraft.. say hypothetically 4 fighters and a Stuka and an IL2 I would most likely never buy the Pe-2 or the He-111..

 

 

Name a single flight sim that cost you $200 out of the box.  So far $90 is the most I have ever paid for a flight sim.  That makes it an expensive flight sim.  I'm not comparing it to the price I pay for oranges, I'm comparing it to other flight sims.  $200 would be a really expensive flight sim.  And even that would be cheap compared to what you would have to pay for a modernized copy of IL-2 1946.

 

A $200 out of the box sim would not sell well.. at all.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

No they aren't.. I bought what I wanted to buy .... You are looking at this all wrong... I don't need the complete RoF. If BoS was like RoF and it only came with say 6 aircraft.. say hypothetically 4 fighters and a Stuka and an IL2 I would most likely never buy the Pe-2 or the He-111..

 

And I likely would. For instance, I purchased every aircraft, map, campaign and modification available for ROF:CBE even though I only fly the Albatross'... And that is simply because I wanted to own them and I care about the continued development of the game... (Which doesn't seem favorable... :/)

 

But on that note...

 

I wouldn't get on the forums for a different game title and try to convince you that I've taken the burden of subsidizing your enjoyment of the game by spending my money. It would be a sophomoric argument to try to convince anybody that my $$$ meant more to 777 than their $$$.

 

I'm not sure where I'm going with that... But [Edited]. 

Edited January 21, 2015 by Bearcat
No personal comments

[dburne]

And I likely would. For instance, I purchased every aircraft, map, campaign and modification available for ROF:CBE even though I only fly the Albatross'... And that is simply because I wanted to own them.

 

But I wouldn't get on the forums for a different game title and try to convince you that I've taken the burden of subsidizing your enjoyment of the game by spending my money. It would be a sophomoric argument to try to convince anybody that my $$$ meant more to 777 than their $$$.

 

I'm not sure where I'm going with that... But that's very "elitist" of you BSR. 

 

Oh no worry, you did just fine and I will give you a big +1 to that one!

And quite frankly, how many bucks I spent on ROF over the last few years, is none of his business.

Edited January 20, 2015 by dburne

[FS_Fenice_1965]

BoS is the, so far, middle of the road successor of both.

In my opinion BOS may be the successor...this is the node around which everything turns.

At the moment BOS is ROF successor, everything comes from ROF, to be totally honest I have difficulties to find something taken from 1946 in this sim, apart from the name and the historical period, while I find a lot of things similar to ROF. Upcoming features, FMB included, will be recovered from ROF.

I do not want to enter the debate about which one is better, I simply think that if the aim is to recover IL2 simmers and develop the success of IL1946 this is not the way to go. Bos can be a good starting point and ROF basement was the only way to release a new sim fast, but now is the time to start recovering what deserves to be brought in the future from IL2 heritage. If this sim will be able to make virtual pilots believe that the flag of IL2 is in the hands of people that want to give old IL2 a future will be a success, otherwise...I dont'think will be ever able to conquer IL2 fans heart...and consequently success. I think none can deny that IL2 community is the largest customers basement for a sim holding IL2 name. The key point is not loosing the contact with this parte of the community...

[Jaeger55]

In my opinion BOS may be the successor...this is the node around which everything turns.

At the moment BOS is ROF successor, everything comes from ROF, to be totally honest I have difficulties to find something taken from 1946 in this sim, apart from the name and the historical period, while I find a lot of things similar to ROF. Upcoming features, FMB included, will be recovered from ROF.

I do not want to enter the debate about which one is better, I simply think that if the aim is to recover IL2 simmers and develop the success of IL1946 this is not the way to go. Bos can be a good starting point and ROF basement was the only way to release a new sim fast, but now is the time to start recovering what deserves to be brought in the future from IL2 heritage. If this sim will be able to make virtual pilots believe that the flag of IL2 is in the hands of people that want to give old IL2 a future will be a success, otherwise...I dont'think will be ever able to conquer IL2 fans heart...and consequently success. I think none can deny that IL2 community is the largest customers basement for a sim holding IL2 name. The key point is not loosing the contact with this parte of the community...

+

[Yakdriver]

Name a single flight sim that cost you $200 out of the box.  So far $90 is the most I have ever paid for a flight sim.  That makes it an expensive flight sim.  I'm not comparing it to the price I pay for oranges, I'm comparing it to other flight sims.  $200 would be a really expensive flight sim.  And even that would be cheap compared to what you would have to pay for a modernized copy of IL-2 1946.

CloD cost me 1500 euros, as i bought a PC for it in... early 07?. But then it was delayed, delayed delayed... and by the time i finally bought it, that Box was derelict anyway.

[Dakpilot]

CloD cost me 1500 euros, as i bought a PC for it in... early 07?. But then it was delayed, delayed delayed... and by the time i finally bought it, that Box was derelict anyway.

 

I don't think you were the only one...

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[BraveSirRobin]

I wouldn't get on the forums for a different game title and try to convince you that I've taken the burden of subsidizing your enjoyment of the game by spending my money. It would be a sophomoric argument to try to convince anybody that my $$$ meant more to 777 than their $$$.

 

I'm not sure where I'm going with that... But that's very "elitist" of you BSR. 

 

You might not say it, but that doesn't make it any less true.  Continued development of that game is financed by sales of aircraft.  If you don't buy aircraft, then the only way your version of the game isn't subsidized by the people who do buy planes is if you never update your copy of the game. 

CloD cost me 1500 euros, as i bought a PC for it in... early 07?. But then it was delayed, delayed delayed... and by the time i finally bought it, that Box was derelict anyway.

 

No, it cost you around $50 US.  The PC was a separate expense.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

You might not say it, but that doesn't make it any less true.  Continued development of that game is financed by sales of aircraft.  If you don't buy aircraft, then the only way your version of the game isn't subsidized by the people who do buy planes is if you never update your copy of the game. 

 

No, it cost you around $50 US.  The PC was a separate expense.

 

You're right in the fact that you can't make the untrue any less true.

 

Take it to PM or learn to agree to disagree.

[BraveSirRobin]

You're right in the fact that you can't make the untrue any less true.

 

Take it to PM or learn to agree to disagree.

 

No, I'm right.  Period.  Development is financed by aircraft sales.  If you're not buying aircraft, then you benefit from money spent by other people.  

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

No, I'm right.  Period.  Development is financed by aircraft sales.  If you're not buying aircraft, then you benefit from money spent by other people.  

 

Development is financed by a parent company that deems the product worthwhile and has determined that their investment will create a return.

 

Get over yourself. You are not always right. Period.

 

I offer again, take it to PM or move along. It's getting old.

 

EDIT: Software designer.

 

EDIT: We will also get an opportunity to see your "theory" in direct action when support for ROF ends in the future. Why would they end support to a title that still sells aircraft..? Well... Because the aircraft don't fund the development. A corporate entity and a board of investors/directors do(es)...

Edited January 21, 2015 by FalkeEins

[BraveSirRobin]

Development is financed by a parent company that deems the product worthwhile and has determined that their investment will create a return.

 

Get over yourself. You are not always right. Period.

 

I offer again, take it to PM or shut the fuck up. It's getting old.

 

EDIT: Software designer.

 

I didn't say that I'm always right, but I'm definitely right about this.  How do you think that parent company is expecting to get their money back from RoF, genius?  Aircraft sales.  That is how RoF development is funded.

 

EDIT:  Software developer.

Edited January 21, 2015 by BraveSirRobin

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I didn't say that I'm always right, but I'm definitely right about this.  How do you think that parent company is expecting to get their money back from RoF, genius?  Aircraft sales.  That is how RoF development is funded.

 

EDIT:  Software developer.

 

That is how investor return is funded. Ultimately, the investor will determine if their return was great enough to continue funding the project.

 

Though I see what you are getting at, it is an indirect relationship.

 

Anyway, I still offer you to PM. Till then, I'm blocking the tiring posts on the forum.

Edited January 21, 2015 by FalkeEins

[Yakdriver]

You might not say it, but that doesn't make it any less true.  Continued development of that game is financed by sales of aircraft.  If you don't buy aircraft, then the only way your version of the game isn't subsidized by the people who do buy planes is if you never update your copy of the game. 

 

No, it cost you around $50 US.  The PC was a separate expense.

Negative, i see this as a package, including electricity, desk, chair, internet access costs, software licences and what have you

My PC's are all FlightSim PC's.

 

I mean - driving a Car is not only the price of the Car[machine] either.

a smart man also sees the cost for training [licence], parking, maintenance, fuel, insurance, parts and pieces... even the occasional speed ticket could be factored in.

I am trying to look beyond the Licence Price tag.

 

*memories*

Even had my first flightsim before i bought my first PC.

Battled against "the Powers that be" to get permission to buy a PC, argued it was to increase my chances on the Job market if i got to grips with it.

The first thing i did after the XP setup was to open the tray and pop in the CFS3 CD1, that i had hidden in my School Backpack - along with a Joystick of course.

 

The Head of the Home i lived in was understandably furious. other's weren't even allowed a Playstation, and had to turn their Gameboys in at 8 in the evening.

Then i became knowledgeable enough to write CV's for the Kids around me.

That shut him up right quick, and 6 months later i was out anyway.

 

Good times.

 

[Bearcat]

In my opinion BOS may be the successor...this is the node around which everything turns.

At the moment BOS is ROF successor, everything comes from ROF, to be totally honest I have difficulties to find something taken from 1946 in this sim, apart from the name and the historical period, while I find a lot of things similar to ROF. Upcoming features, FMB included, will be recovered from ROF.

I do not want to enter the debate about which one is better, I simply think that if the aim is to recover IL2 simmers and develop the success of IL1946 this is not the way to go. Bos can be a good starting point and ROF basement was the only way to release a new sim fast, but now is the time to start recovering what deserves to be brought in the future from IL2 heritage. If this sim will be able to make virtual pilots believe that the flag of IL2 is in the hands of people that want to give old IL2 a future will be a success, otherwise...I dont'think will be ever able to conquer IL2 fans heart...and consequently success. I think none can deny that IL2 community is the largest customers basement for a sim holding IL2 name. The key point is not loosing the contact with this parte of the community...

For BoS to become the true successor in more than name it must have decent coop capability. One of the major factors in the success of IL2 was the fact that it was balanced in it's SP/MP approach. IirC many folks complained about the IL2 SP experience because in many cases especially early on the AI made it kind of problematic but the fact remains that pretty much all along when considering the life of the sim it was pretty versatile and able to cater to a very diverse set of simmers. Whether you were a fan of the DFFFA or the structured fur all or the dynamic campaign or the single mission, regardless to what rettings you preferred whether open pit with full icons or closed pit with no visual aids whatsoever your preferences could be met and that is why to this day IL2 stands as the benchmark that any sim developer should aim for as a starting point as far as features with a plan to expand features and content to keep profits rolling in. If that is done well it is a no brainer. That should be the Takeaway for any sim development team based on the last 5 years... at least from my perspective. Now maybe there are other factors that I am just not privy to not being an insider in the business itself of sw design etc.. but I do know simming.

 

For those who posted in here about being turned off from the online experience you need to give coops a try and get on a TS server... that changes the entire experience and hopefully some form of coop will be doable in the near future for BoS even if it is technically not called a coop.

[BraveSirRobin]

Negative, i see this as a package, including electricity, desk, chair, internet access costs, software licences and what have you

My PC's are all FlightSim PC's.

 

You're free to "see" it any way to like, but the game still only cost you about $50 US.  The rest of the things that you "see" are all separate expenses.

[FS_Fenice_1965]

For BoS to become the true successor in more than name it must have decent coop capability. One of the major factors in the success of IL2 was the fact that it was balanced in it's SP/MP approach. IirC many folks complained about the IL2 SP experience because in many cases especially early on the AI made it kind of problematic but the fact remains that pretty much all along when considering the life of the sim it was pretty versatile and able to cater to a very diverse set of simmers. Whether you were a fan of the DFFFA or the structured fur all or the dynamic campaign or the single mission, regardless to what rettings you preferred whether open pit with full icons or closed pit with no visual aids whatsoever your preferences could be met and that is why to this day IL2 stands as the benchmark that any sim developer should aim for as a starting point as far as features with a plan to expand features and content to keep profits rolling in. If that is done well it is a no brainer. That should be the Takeaway for any sim development team based on the last 5 years... at least from my perspective. Now maybe there are other factors that I am just not privy to not being an insider in the business itself of sw design etc.. but I do know simming.

 

For those who posted in here about being turned off from the online experience you need to give coops a try and get on a TS server... that changes the entire experience and hopefully some form of coop will be doable in the near future for BoS even if it is technically not called a coop.

 

I agree Bearcat,

those features are ones of the things most requested from simmers.

In my opinion btw the sim should do something more to achieve the goal. FMB, in example, needs to add ROF features to the IL2 interface. FMB in IL2 was a game itself. Devs cannot limit themselves to copy the ROF formula on BOS. They need to do something evident, clearly bringing part of the 1946 design and putting it onto BOS.

It is important that people start thinking that they invested on the IL2 brand to receive a product within IL2 design, not ROF and neither DCS.

Think what would happen if you buy a "Prada" or a "Versace" product and you receive something with a "Levi's" design. I am referring not to the value or the quality, but just to the design, assuming that both products are of the same value and quality. If one is used to dress "Prada", want to dress with that design (minimal chic), we cannot think to throw him blue jeans and pretend that he will be happy even if they are branded "Prada".

[Mac_Messer]

That is a very good assessment of the situation.  The utter failure of CloD drove a spike in the heart of the genre. The WW2 air combat simulation demographic is simply not large enough to support two or three titles.

 

We need one sim to rule them all, like the original IL2 did, and frankly, that is not happening.

Why do you think BoS can`t replicate IL2? Sure it can, well, not by current devs decisions but that might change sometime in the future. All the sims are very different animals, you can really do certain things in only one, so they should stay apart without interfering one with another. IMO BoS is currently missing features that made IL2 gather most of the flying crowd and at the same time I see only BoS replicating it, other sims are of different purpose.

 

I am the same as many others too in that online playing is over for me.

Dude, from what you say I don`t think IL2 kind of online flying was ever for you.

I

Yes but at that price point up front it won't sell well unless it was flawless.

No less, the amount of content that is given to a user is one of the most important game selling point nowadays.

 

I agree with both your points also Bear ..... But though I do not mean to derail this thread but only add my thoughts, 1C was on track to do just that, "Beat the OLd IL-2" when they created Cliffs of Dover. And yes we could argue man a point here but as the history of IL-2 goes, the Old IL-2 is the bench mark and even though I enjoy BoS (yes my disclaimer), CloD tried to raise the bar before for what ever reason, it was abandoned. BoS is the, so far, middle of the road successor of both. It is, as I've said before, a solid platform that will offer, I hope, a good chance to build off of. To develop into not a good product but a great product. Time will tell.

You must remember that throughout IL2 history, the game consistently introduced milestones that changed some of the gameplay completely. There was hardly any standstill with that game.

CoD was too ambitious.. If they had just updated the graphics, FM,DM and physics using the CoD engine, kept the same basic feature set as IL2 possibly updating the MEs.. both quick and full.. ... and left the super complex stuff for later .. we would not be having this conversation...

The problem with leaving some things of "for later" tend to create problems with implementation. IL2 showed that better than any other game. If the engine is produced as very capable from the ground up, it can take in upgrades with much less hassle. What happened with CloD was not really a case of bad idea, rather a case of poor execution.