Looks like the final straw for any flight sim

[Czar66]

BoS is a new game, Flight Simulator X is not. A lot of people on steam already knew the simulator before steam version release therefore felt more comfortable buying it, even more when it was dirt cheap during the whole sale.

 

'cmon, unfair comparison. It was 10 times cheaper than BoS.

Edited January 15, 2015 by FeliusCzar

[Wulf]

Yes the big majority of our users have purchased outside of Steam. The appeal of Steam is still mixed among simmers. And yes we are more expensive on average compared to the other titles. The Goat Simulator is just a lark, but hell wish I had thought of it.

 

Jason

 

 

OMG!!  a "lark" !!  Dude, I have over a hundred books on goats and pages and pages of unpublished graphs.  The Goat Sim is actually pretty accurate .................

[LizLemon]

Yes the big majority of our users have purchased outside of Steam. The appeal of Steam is still mixed among simmers. And yes we are more expensive on average compared to the other titles. The Goat Simulator is just a lark, but hell wish I had thought of it.

 

Jason

Could you give us any hints as to the breakdown between sp and mp users?

 

Right now steam charts shows 26 people playing bos and online.il2forever.com shows 14 people on mp servers.

 

This means that there are at least 12 people playing sp. But given your statement on most users being non-steam this must mean that there are far more sp players then mp.

 

Just a hint as to the percentage breakdown would be very helpful for mission makers to decide if they should focus on sp or mp missions/campaigns ect. I would have guessed that there would be a 50/50 split but the numbers imply this isnt the case.

 

Thanks in advance for an answer. Cant wait for the fmb!

[ShamrockOneFive]

How many of us are not playing on Steam? I assumed the vast majority were buying direct from this site and Steam was maybe a small percentage?

[CorsairHundo]

Every night I say, "let's fly some BoS then I think about the unlocks and say, maybe tomorrow night" That was 5 nights ago and still haven't

 

 

There's a sure-fire way to increase those numbers:

a.) Remove unlocks (or at least allow XP grinding through multiplayer)

b.) Increase server count on multiplayerI've left out the FMB and Dserver because we know that they're coming.

 

 

Let's hope the devs are fairly flexible when it comes to changing those two aspects of the game, because from what it seems, it isn't all too popular right now.

[SCG_Neun]

Every night I say, "let's fly some BoS then I think about the unlocks and say, maybe tomorrow night" That was 5 nights ago and still haven't

 

 

Have you flown Veterans mission pak yet.  The unlocks for me were kind of easy, since I only fly basically 3 fighter aircraft anyway...for now anyway.

[CorsairHundo]

Have you flown Veterans mission pak yet.  The unlocks for me were kind of easy, since I only fly basically 3 fighter aircraft anyway...for now anyway.

Veterans mission pak? No, no idea about that. I only planned on flying 3-4 also, still on the first (109) but I've only unlocked the headrest and other gun, so far.

[Bearcat]

There's a sure-fire way to increase those numbers:

 

a.) Remove unlocks (or at least allow XP grinding through multiplayer)

b.) Increase server count on multiplayer

 

I've left out the FMB and Dserver because we know that they're coming.

 

 

Let's hope the devs are fairly flexible when it comes to changing those two aspects of the game, because from what it seems, it isn't all too popular right now.

 

I agree with a. Although I don't think it is all just a matter of flexibility.. it would be nice though. Call me an optimist but I think that b will eventually be resolved so for me it is a non issue. Hopefully moving forward, even if it (the XP grind issue) cannot be resolved in this build, future content will not  be administered the same way.

 

The multiplayer layout of this game is seriously not appealing at all.

Where is the ability to make your own pirvate server and just fly with some buddies? Incredible that this has been overlooked this far down the line.

The small numbers "enjoying" this game is everything it deserves in its current state. I hope it changes for the better I really do.

 

That is just not available yet.. but it is forthcoming so for me this is not an issue either.

[III/JG11_Tiger]

Yes the big majority of our users have purchased outside of Steam. The appeal of Steam is still mixed among simmers. And yes we are more expensive on average compared to the other titles. The Goat Simulator is just a lark, but hell wish I had thought of it.

 

Jason

Just a thought when and if the Ju52 ever becomes flyable maybe one of the things that could be transported to the troops is a goat.

 

Honestly you have to laugh that someone has made some money out of a goat simulator, now that is thinking outside the box.

[III/JG11_Tiger]

I agree with a. Although I don't think it is all just a matter of flexibility.. it would be nice though. Call me an optimist but I think that b will eventually be resolved so for me it is a non issue. Hopefully moving forward, even if it (the XP grind issue) cannot be resolved in this build, future content will not  be administered the same way.

 

 

That is just not available yet.. but it is forthcoming so for me this is not an issue either.

I have to say the one thing that keeps me from flying BOS is the unlocks, well no dserver as yet doesn't help either, but when I have some time to fly I think ROF or BOS and owing to the feeling of annoyance I still get that I am forced to unlock something I have paid for, I choose ROF every time, at least in that structure I made the choice as to which planes I bought and when (I have them all and most add ons), I am a bit stubborn when it comes to things like this, someone really needs to wake up and drop the unlocks and just accept that it was a bad idea.

 

It really is a shame as BOS shows a lot of promise but it is now into the months since I have fired it up, I keep checking here in the hope that things have changed but so far no luck.

[KodiakJac]

Toss the unlock centered SP Campaign, update the b-Career in RoF for WWII and port it into BoS, cut MP players loose to play with all gear and skins immediately and BoS becomes a great game!

 

Note: Talk to Pat Wilson about why the b-Career AI in RoF doesn't work like it does in QMB.  He had the same problem in PWCG but figured it out and fixed it.  It was simply a change in how mission instructions are written for each AI plane.  A programmatic one time fix and you're good to go.  The only reason b-Career in RoF doesn't get played more is because of the problem with the AI.  It would probably rival PWCG for player's attention if the AI were fixed.

 

[FuriousMeow]

I still play BoS when I can. Don't care for SP, never did. Played a MP mission the other night that had field supply missions. Flew to that field in a  He-111, supplied it, then took off from that newly acquired field in a 190 for a patrol before my internet connection cut out.

 

I don't have all the unlocks, but I have most and it took a total of 5 hours. As far as OR being the savior - the CV is still a year away by rumors from CES so I don't see that doing much.

 

And as far as going "I'm going to play BoS <insert sour grapes>, no I'll go play RoF" well RoF has 5 years of development under it and guess what was going on around the first year of its existence? Much the same. "There's only 4 planes" "There's no dedicated server" (Which BoS does) "There's no SP career system" and etc.

 

Complaining that BoS isn't where RoF is at makes no sense, same with any other title that has been out for years and been either hacked to work or patched by a third party that was given the source code or has several years of development with multiple modules. BoS is where its at and complaining about where its at currently won't get it further along any faster.

Edited January 15, 2015 by FuriousMeow

[III/JG11_Tiger]

I still play BoS when I can. Don't care for SP, never did. Played a MP mission the other night that had field supply missions. Flew to that field in a  He-111, supplied it, then took off from that newly acquired field in a 190 for a patrol before my internet connection cut out.

 

I don't have all the unlocks, but I have most and it took a total of 5 hours. As far as OR being the savior - the CV is still a year away by rumors from CES so I don't see that doing much.

 

And as far as going "I'm going to play BoS <insert sour grapes>, no I'll go play RoF" well RoF has 5 years of development under it and guess what was going on around the first year of its existence? Much the same. "There's only 4 planes" "There's no dedicated server" (Which BoS does) "There's no SP career system" and etc.

 

Complaining that BoS isn't where RoF is at makes no sense, same with any other title that has been out for years and been either hacked to work or patched by a third party that was given the source code or has several years of development with multiple modules. BoS is where its at and complaining about where its at currently won't get it further along any faster.

If your referring to my comments I made no such complaint, I know ROF was a disaster in its first year but I still didn't have to unlock anything in sp mode, I just waited for MP mode to be released, I bought BOS early as I did ROF and for the extra cost was rewarded I thought with certain planes and load outs, I used them regularly until someone amongst the devs decided I had to now unlock them.

 

Sorry but I'm fairly busy and don't have the time or desire to do that especially in sp mode, if you do that's fine I'm not complaining about the sim itself which was coming along great then someone decided to add the IMO  ridiculous unlock feature and they have turned what was heading towards being a popular sim into what we now have.

 

I'll get back into it once the mission builder and dserver is released but for someone living down under there are no local servers at the moment so ping is not great and our time zones mean not many are on when we play so I just can't be bothered with the effort of the unlocks at the moment, the game itself though seems to have a lot of promise but the Devs at some stage need to decide if they want sales or to remain stubborn about certain features, pity really because I was enjoying the pre release a lot and as you state it was in a lot better shape than ROF at release.

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

Quite ridiculous to compare a title such as MSF X with IL2 BOS.. MSF has been around for ages and have a big community with LOTS of addons, activities etc.. BoS has been around for how long?

 

silly thread...

 

 

FSX was $5 on Steam when it came out, I'm sure that has something to do with it.

this too

Edited January 15, 2015 by SvAF/F19_Klunk

[jeanba]

 

The Goat Simulator is just a lark, but hell wish I had thought of it.

 

Jason

Try with a camel ?

[IckyATLAS]

I am astonished. I thought Goat Simulator was a joke. Not it is there and real. And does not seem so bad. BoS need do much better. The goat crashes into windows and they just break into pieces. But in BoS if I shoot at windows nothing happens.

[Leaf]

Try with a camel ?

 

They've done that already. :D

[Finkeren]

I am astonished. I thought Goat Simulator was a joke. Not it is there and real. And does not seem so bad. BoS need do much better. The goat crashes into windows and they just break into pieces. But in BoS if I shoot at windows nothing happens.

Goat simulator WAS a joke. The original trailer for was, I think, an aprils fool mean to showcase a new physics engine. Af the enormous success of that trailer, popular demand resulted in the game actually being made.

[Feathered_IV]

The Goat Simulator is just a lark, but hell wish I had thought of it.

 

Jason

Perhaps I might suggest a Lark Simulator then? At least it would involve some flying.

[Finkeren]

I wish people would just lay off the talk about the unlocks. Yes, it was a bad design choice I think most of us agree to that, but I really can't imagine, that it's keeping that many people off MP. The unlocks are what they are, and they're not exactly imposible to play through (one night, normal difficulty, short mission is all it really took me to completely unlock each plane)

[J2_Trupobaw]

Well... FSX beats other "fly over terrain" sims easily, so it's more about FSX than BoS.

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/307960,314160,292180,214130#3m

 

 

 

2) The graph is actually a straw to flight simulation as a whole, certainly not only BoS, when I see that Goat in the Tops 

 

 

 

How about trains?

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/307960,314160,24010,265930#3m

Or trains and somewhat arcadish trucks?
http://steamcharts.com/cmp/314160,227300,24010,265930#3m

Edited January 15, 2015 by Trupobaw

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Unlocks all over again. Unlocks are nothing else then a forced tutorial. Most of the multiplayer pilots could definitely do good with some campaign flying to increase their piloting skills. Friend of mine (pure multiplayer) told me 100 times how he hates them, and he'll never gonna do them. He wasn't a really good fighter pilots, not a good aim, and lots of tactical mistakes, it didn't get a lot better over a few month of multiplayer gaming (keyword: no patience) Finally i managed to persuade him, to do some campaign, to get a few unlocks, and look at this. He got a lot better, either in tactics and especially in his aim in a short amount of time. Over a month or so he got a competitive pilot.

Reasons? :

- If you do one or two mistakes in multiplayer, you will be in the defensive position. In the defensive position you'll definitely not gonna learn how to aim, angle shots, or how to set up your (offensive) tactics

- In multiplayer the encounters are less then in the campaign. In the campaign you have target practicing all the time

 

When i look on how the vast majority (the ones i definitely don't mean know it themselves, that they are not meant) does in multiplayer, no offence, they really could do with some campaign (tutorial) training...

 

I understand the experienced pilots, because for them it's just a waste of time. But for the vast majority(!) it's a good aircraft familiarisation, before throwing themselves into multiplayer.

I myself am definitely not a fan of the unlocks, it's still my opinion, that it was the worst design decision i have seen so far in a flight sim (!)

But condemning this game, just because of this one decision? Telling your friends, not to buy this Sim, because of this decision? Come on people, that's ridiculous 

 

Edit/Accretion: What are you doing in DCS, when you buy a new plane? Is the first thing you do, throwing yourself into Multiplayer? I guess no. Normally you first go into quick mission, setting up controls, trying them out, doing some air combat against a bot, trying one or two ground attack strafes - "aircraft familiarisation"..after 2 or 3 hours then it's time to go into multiplayer. And 2 hours is all you need in BoS to get all the unlocks for a plane...only different thing, is that in BoS its "forced", what anybody would do anyway....

Edited January 15, 2015 by Celestiale

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

Dude, I have over a hundred books on goats and pages and pages of unpublished graphs.  The Goat Sim is actually pretty accurate .................

 

Not at all! The tongue is overmodelled! It is far too long, and give it an unfair airflow advantage. If you can map it to s slider, you will be able to out-turn even rabbits and small dogs, which is clearly unhistorical!

 

This graph show the obvious gross mangling of the physics model, with billygoat and kid, and an eve for comparison:

 

 

This scandalous favouritism to sheep-herding domestic markets rival the overblown roll-rate of the delta wood pencil, scandalous, scandalous!

Edited January 15, 2015 by 79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer

[J2_Trupobaw]

It all pales next to overmodeled roll rate of bicycles in Goat Sim...

[haltux]

looks like more people want boring flights and flying real photo realistic area's than any combat.

To me as a business prospective this is dismal numbers.

or look at changing the way flights have to be flown. maybe some planes that don't have combat, but you can fly and still enjoy the scenery?

in photo realistic environments, and still keep the combat side of things?

 

 

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/63950,265930,307960,314160#3m

 

FSX includes a lot of pretty well scripted and varied missions (racing, emergency landing, rescuing...) that makes it a good simulation AND a good game.

 

The deal-breaker issue with FSX was that at time of release, and even the following years, the most powerfull PCs could not grant a decent FPS all the time.

 

Now the problem is solved, graphics are still fine, for 5$ it's the best deal ever. Not surprising that so many people jumped on it.

[BlackDevil]

@FSX:  it has only a very small disadvantage. You have the feeling of steering spaceships or U-Boats ? Definitly nothing with air involved 

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Another thing to consider in this discussion is that for a new person to any flight sim that there is first a learning curve to learn to fly. Then there is learning to fly in combat a completely different subject. But I also agree that the MSX community is large and well established too.

 

The fact that Cliffs of Dover is still alive is no surprise to me. But Goat sim? A fluke? Most likely since it looks to be modeled after Grand Theft Auto, I can understand the attraction of it's no thought destruction. 

 

Chief

[sallee]

Goat Simulator only really became a success when they removed the requirement to unlock the beard, horns, bell and udders.

Edited January 15, 2015 by sallee

[voncrapenhauser]

The multiplayer layout of this game is seriously not appealing at all.

 

Where is the ability to make your own pirvate server and just fly with some buddies? Incredible that this has been overlooked this far down the line.

 

The small numbers "enjoying" this game is everything it deserves in its current state. I hope it changes for the better I really do.

+1

I enjoy multi too.

But Campaign needs more work too. 

I hate grinding, but actually like the unlocks, guess I'm weird that way.

Edited January 15, 2015 by voncrapenhauser

[Bearcat]

I wish people would just lay off the talk about the unlocks. Yes, it was a bad design choice I think most of us agree to that, but I really can't imagine, that it's keeping that many people off MP. The unlocks are what they are, and they're not exactly imposible to play through (one night, normal difficulty, short mission is all it really took me to completely unlock each plane)

 

It will be mentioned though.. because it is ...the problems escalate when those who are tired of hearing about it chime in and the back and forth starts. It is what it is man. If you don't want it bantered about then don't respond. By now everyone knows about it and it is going to come up as long as it exists. let it go as long as we don't get back to two months ago.

[SCG_Neun]

Goat Simulator only really became a success when they removed the requirement to unlock the beard, horns, bell and udders.

Udder madness.....

[voncrapenhauser]

Im starting to understand why goat sim has more players. 

 

 

I'm sold that's hilarious.

I bought on steam.....no problems?????

Edited January 15, 2015 by voncrapenhauser

[FokkerH]

Celestiale I agree with you..... i hate unlock system, i prefer play DCS, But.....Unlocks all..and play back.

 

Regards,

(do not be stubborn unlock all, no sean porfiados quiten el sistema de bloqueos)

Edited January 15, 2015 by FokkerH

[voncrapenhauser]

Not at all! The tongue is overmodelled! It is far too long, and give it an unfair airflow advantage. If you can map it to s slider, you will be able to out-turn even rabbits and small dogs, which is clearly unhistorical!

 

This graph show the obvious gross mangling of the physics model, with billygoat and kid, and an eve for comparison:

 

 

This scandalous favouritism to sheep-herding domestic markets rival the overblown roll-rate of the delta wood pencil, scandalous, scandalous!

LOL

FSX includes a lot of pretty well scripted and varied missions (racing, emergency landing, rescuing...) that makes it a good simulation AND a good game.

 

The deal-breaker issue with FSX was that at time of release, and even the following years, the most powerfull PCs could not grant a decent FPS all the time.

 

Now the problem is solved, graphics are still fine, for 5$ it's the best deal ever. Not surprising that so many people jumped on it.

+1 Agreed I have had since release date, still play now and then with sliders at max now.

Faults aside with the FMs and crap graphics low down its still worth it now for the money.

@FSX:  it has only a very small disadvantage. You have the feeling of steering spaceships or U-Boats ? Definitly nothing with air involved 

Whoa!...its not that bad but agreed its FM is not good...LOL

Goat Simulator only really became a success when they removed the requirement to unlock the beard, horns, bell and udders.

LOL...I love this forum

Udder madness.....

Double LOL

 

Correction to previous statement above, I read it back and it seems like I bought Goat simulator, I did not.

I meant I bought BOS on steam and have not many problems, I do not and never had a love for goats.....Honest.

Edited January 15, 2015 by voncrapenhauser

[jeanba]

They've done that already. :D

Right, let's try albatros

Edited January 15, 2015 by jeanba

[361fundahl]

I play BOS every time I can and if there is nobody on US Normal server then I just shoot for unlocks.....

 

Almost have that 2500bomb.... (2 1800 are almost as fun!)

[SharpeXB]

The unlocks aren't deserving of so much angst.

First they're fun.

Second if you so desire to "game the game" you can get everything for a plane in under 2 hours. It doesn't take as much time as some are implying.

One good successful Expert level mission per chapter is enough to earn all the points it takes to get everything for that plane.

[BzKBravoZulu]

The unlocks aren't deserving of so much angst.

First they're fun.

Second if you so desire to "game the game" you can get everything for a plane in under 2 hours. It doesn't take as much time as some are implying.

One good successful Expert level mission per chapter is enough to earn all the points it takes to get everything for that plane.

 

Sharpe you're bonkers. The very best mission I ever had on expert earned me 385 or so points... Mostly I keep missing everything on the ground for the lack of icons and my complete inability to hit anything with a bomb. I am lucky to complete 1 in 3 missions as I like to prune the trees with my prop and ventilate my cockpit with flak. If you can score 2000 points in one mission then clearly the rest of us are doing it completely wrong.

[Yakdriver]

And with these skills, you need the Campaign aka "Boot Camp" more than ever.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

The unlocks aren't deserving of so much angst.

First they're fun.

No, they really aren't.

 

At least they aren't to me.

 

There are many, many, many people on this very forum that agree.