Campaign wing mates kill themselves after taking off

[GridiroN]

You'll have to excuse me if this has been posted already as the search function on this forum sucks, but all the wingmen in my campaign game regularly kill themselves after taking off. Is this a known issue? Any fix? 

[SharpeXB]

Does it happen a lot? One thing I like about the RoF and BoS AI is their imperfection. Crashing, and stalling their planes in combat just like real pilots. Sometimes I wonder if when they've crashed on takeoff is if I cut them off on the runway or something.

[GridiroN]

One of the things that pisses me off is that if you start your throttle, it tells the AI to take off, and they will plow through you if you didn't actually intend to take off, so I don't think it has anything to do with cutting them off. Sometimes, they are infront of me.

 

They take off, if they have bombs, they'll drop them, and them do a long wide turn into the ground and die. I'm alone every mission : /

[TG-55Panthercules]

I had some similar issues in my Stuka campaign, but only out of one particular airfield (there was a hill nearby that my autopilot and my AI buddies routinely plowed into when flying out of that particular airfield).  Are you seeing this happen at several fields or only one?

[GridiroN]

I had some similar issues in my Stuka campaign, but only out of one particular airfield (there was a hill nearby that my autopilot and my AI buddies routinely plowed into when flying out of that particular airfield).  Are you seeing this happen at several fields or only one?

 

All of them.

[FlatSpinMan]

This sounds different from my experience, though I have had AI planes clip a tree after take off and crash twice. They've rammed me too, the a^holes

Can you tell us details then we can help more.

Which plane? 

Which airfield?

What loadout/fuel level?

Then maybe some of us guys can try to reproduce it.

 

Something is definitely askew there.

[33lima]

My experience here FWIW.

 

AI Stukas wingmen always crash - at least one, sometimes all of them -  soon after takeoff at Gumrak (where the ground is fairly level, so I don't see that terrain avoidance is an issue). They also crash regularly at one or two other airfields which I have tried so I am not convinced that it is airfield specific.

 

Perhaps runway length is part of the issue the issue and that bombed-up AI Stukas need to avoid certain airfields. However the player can take off fully laden at Gumrak so the AI should be able too, also.

 

This MAY be limited to player-led flights. To test this, I pulled off the runway as fast as I could, to get out of their way. Result - they still crash. I still think all the AI flown (and AI-led) Stukas got off ok from Gumrak, in the included Bf109 Stuka escort mission.

 

If Gumrak was the problem then it should not be the only start airfield for the German campaign, because it is effectively un-usable if you choose to fly Stukas.

 

Reducing the fuel and bomb-load to the minimum does not seem to help.

 

AI crashing into the player from behind is a separate issue, affecting other (all?) aircraft. It seems we need to take off smartly and neither dawdle too long nor veer too much to one side, after we have started out takeoff roll. This is not unrealistic. If you take off smartly things will be ok. The best thing would be to allow the plane on the player's right to take off as they do now, so you get the benefit of planes taking off in pairs, but to add a second or two's delay to the planes behind, so that the second pair (or the 3rd aircraft) allow the player and his immediate wingman to get a little further down the runway, before they start to roll.

[33lima]

PS for AI Stuka wingmen crashing on takeoff, loading seems to make NO difference.

 

Flight of four taking off from Zyraninsky which has NO nearby high ground, all three AI planes crashed within about 30 seconds of takeoff, even though they had NO bombload.

 

Four taking off from Kletskaya in the direction of a modest but significant hill just beyond the end of the runway, one of the AI actually made it...DESPITE all of us carrying a substantial bomb load. So it's not a 'rising ground' problem.

 

The AI Stukas often seem to turn fairly hard left and dive, soon after leaving the ground. They straighten up and level off but are too low and or slow and then augur in. It seems to be this quite un-necessary and un-necessarily violent 'turn and lose altitude' manoeuvre which very often results in (or at least, immediately precedes) a crash.

 

I have not so far seen frequent post takeoff crashes with other types of aircraft beyond the Stuka but have really only flown the Yak, LaGG and Stuka extensively so far. Yak formation takeoffs are always fine for me...unless I faff around and the guy behind runs into me. No post-takeoff crashes. Definitely the norm with Stukas, though.

Edited January 10, 2015 by 33lima

[Y-29.Silky]

Maybe a "work-around" would be to command a different flight formation before take off? Worth a try.

 

There's been a couple rare times where two AI wingmen would collide, but I never had all 3 lol.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Silky

[SvAF/F16_Dark_P]

Getting rammed on take off is annoying, but the worst thing is how aggressive and greedy the AI is when they are in combat...

 

Think the AI is based on War thunder player stats? xD

Yesterday i was almost shoot down by my own wing man, i was chasing a Yak when my dear "kameraden" suddenly opened fire, shooting right over my shoulder, his canon rounds just grazed my cockpit   

 

Edited January 10, 2015 by Dark_P

[33lima]

As 'greedy wingmen' is a common problem in sims, I often adapt accordingly and play more of the flight leader role which is after all what we are most often. I may hang back and let the wingmen go for it, gaining and keeping a height advantage if I can and staying close so that I can either come down to deal with an enemy who has escaped my wingmen, or help him if he gets into trouble.

 

Maybe we sim players are the greedy ones, wanting to get every kill instead of being more concerned  that our team wins and survives the air fight!

[GridiroN]

Getting rammed on take off is annoying, but the worst thing is how aggressive and greedy the AI is when they are in combat...

 

Think the AI is based on War thunder player stats? xD

 

Yesterday i was almost shoot down by my own wing man, i was chasing a Yak when my dear "kameraden" suddenly opened fire, shooting right over my shoulder, his canon rounds just grazed my cockpit   

 

 

 

It actually took me a really long time to unlock stuff as a noob because my teammates were much better at doing everything. All I had to do  was fly around a bit and come home. 

 

Happens to me no matter what mission, or loadout it seems. I can only do air start Stuka campaign missions; pretty gutted at this, desperately hoping it is fixed soon. I posted this somewhere else on the forums.

 

When you listen to the engine of the AI, I beleive they throttle back/reduce RPM right after take off then just loll over on to the side and into the ground.

 

This and the lack of AI bombing (bomb release) in the He111 is really spoiling what could be two great planes/experiences (in SP); a real waste if it can't be fixed.

 

I actually never had a problem with Stukas. I know that's a common issue. My HE111's don't drop bombs though. 

 

Getting rammed on take off is annoying, but the worst thing is how aggressive and greedy the AI is when they are in combat...

 

Think the AI is based on War thunder player stats? xD

 

Yesterday i was almost shoot down by my own wing man, i was chasing a Yak when my dear "kameraden" suddenly opened fire, shooting right over my shoulder, his canon rounds just grazed my cockpit   

 

 

 

 

This sounds different from my experience, though I have had AI planes clip a tree after take off and crash twice. They've rammed me too, the a^holes

Can you tell us details then we can help more.

Which plane? 

Which airfield?

What loadout/fuel level?

Then maybe some of us guys can try to reproduce it.

 

Something is definitely askew there.

 

Should  have tested more before posting...It's the FockeWulf. Just tested the Messershmitt G2 and my teammate is flying fine. The FockeWulf AI kills himself.

[FlatSpinMan]

Well, let us know more details.  If one plane or map consistently throws up the same error it's worth knowing about.

[heinkill]

Flying a Stuka campaign now w latest patch. No issues here. Yes occasionally an AI will clip a tree, but no better or worse than with IL2s.

 

I wonder if pilot level has anything to do with it.

 

I am currently level 8. I guess that means AI is also more expert?

 

H

[33lima]

Jsut flew another Stuka campaign mission last night, switching from Gumral to Pitomnik as the latter had just become available. This time I took off first, as smartly as I could, instead of waiting to see if getting out of the AI's way would help them avoid crashing (which it did not). I had reduced the bomb load by swapping a 250Kg for a 500Kg and minimised fuel.

 

Mission weather seemed unexceptional.

 

Both AI Stukas took took off with no flaps. As they always seem to do, even if I let them take off first and despite the fact I this time, I continued climbing straight ahead, both Stukas turned fairly hard left soon after take-off, one just about managing to maintain height, the other losing height in the turn and skimming along just above the ground before crashing in open country.

 

 

 

 

So far that's at least Gumrak, Pitomnik and Zyraninsky, that between one and three out of four AI-flown Stukas ALWAYS crack up soon after takeoff. Not sure what pilot level I'm at now but whatever the cause, this is a significant bug that needs fixed, especially if it affects any other planes, besides the Stuka.

 

I'm going to try the included 109 Stuka escort mission again to see again if a complete AI flight managed to get off there (Pitomnik I think) which if so, would suggest that there is some factor a mission designer can set, that can convert AI Stukas from takeoff Kamikazes to competent pilots.

Edited January 11, 2015 by 33lima

[33lima]

Update - yes I recalled right, ALL the AI flown (and AI-led) Stukas - all six of them, at least you can get a decent bomber flight size in single missions!!!  - took off fine, from Pitomnik, in the Stuka escort mission that comes with BoS.

 

 

As usual, they did not seem to be using any flaps. The only distinctive things I noticed were that they carried a modest bomb-load, just a 500 Kg I think on the centreline with nothing under the wings, not even an empty rack.

 

 

And they all turned right rather than left on takeoff, and more gently than I have seen them do.

.

 

 

I wonder what would happen if on a Stuka campaign mission, you just let the autopilot take off. Not a satisfactory solution, even if it were to work.

Edited January 11, 2015 by 33lima

[Bearcat]

I have had this happen with a few of the IL2 missions as well... It almost seems as if they kind of follow me so if I get up as high as I can without stalling they often do too...

[Livai]

This sounds different from my experience, though I have had AI planes clip a tree after take off and crash twice. They've rammed me too, the a^holes

And I have AI like this

 

 

 

 

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I don't mean to bring up an obvious thing but are u setting flaps for take off, before the 190 Ai for take off was fixed I found they would be fine if I set flaps and they would alway crash if I didn't. I also found that keeping a level flight path and acellerating after take of instead of climbing help as they don't have to slow down. All work rounds I know but helps until fixes

[33lima]

As far as Stukas are concerned - the only planes I have so far seen where aI wingman frequently crack up after takeoff - I get the same Kamikaze act at all the bases I have tried. At Abganerovo just now, one out of three cracked up, which was unusually good in my experience - that's after my taking off first (Quick mission, 'Normal' difficulty setting).

 

I did manage to avenge my careless comrade though...by shooting down a Pe-2 - in a Stuka!!!

 

 

 

 

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

I'll add mine to this growing pile of bad flying AI Wingmen. Been flying IL-2's exclusively lately and I have video if anyone wants it. The wingmen take off ok but then shortly afterwards it's almost like they run out of gas and crash.

 

Chief

[voncrapenhauser]

You'll have to excuse me if this has been posted already as the search function on this forum sucks, but all the wingmen in my campaign game regularly kill themselves after taking off. Is this a known issue? Any fix? 

It only happened 2 times to me .....both times was when I flew low directly after take off.

Think the AI simply try's to formate on you even if there is ground, trees or just about anything in the way.

A steeper climb out seems to have soulved this for me.

Edited January 12, 2015 by voncrapenhauser

[Dakpilot]

If you leave the whole flight to take off on autopilot there seem to be no problems, even with 1000kg bombs, so I assume (dangerous word there) it is some bearing of what the 'pilot' does that causes the AI to do daft things...there have been tweaks to address this with the FW190 and in the last 1.008 update there was some work done on other A/C hopefully the next patches will have some work on leaving the AI to 'do their stuff' without the player having an improper influence on AI takeoff

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[voncrapenhauser]

If you leave the whole flight to take off on autopilot there seem to be no problems, even with 1000kg bombs, so I assume (dangerous word there) it is some bearing of what the 'pilot' does that causes the AI to do daft things...there have been tweaks to address this with the FW190 and in the last 1.008 update there was some work done on other A/C hopefully the next patches will have some work on leaving the AI to 'do their stuff' without the player having an improper influence on AI takeoff

 

Cheers Dakpilot

+1

Fingers crossed.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

If you leave the whole flight to take off on autopilot there seem to be no problems, even with 1000kg bombs, so I assume (dangerous word there) it is some bearing of what the 'pilot' does that causes the AI to do daft things...there have been tweaks to address this with the FW190 and in the last 1.008 update there was some work done on other A/C hopefully the next patches will have some work on leaving the AI to 'do their stuff' without the player having an improper influence on AI takeoff

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

I didn't even know you could take off with "Auto Pilot" . At first I always banked left to find my course assuming that the Ai would follow. They did ... right into the trees. So I decided to go straight awhile and gain altitude first. This seemed to work a bit but then I would look for them and they were gone. A quick check of things and they just seemed to loose altitude and crash.

 

Chief

[Jaegermeister]

That happens to me almost every mission. Level 8 pilot, taking off from all airports in FW 190 with wingmen. Bombs or no bombs. I have tried giving them various commands, shallow ascent, steep ascent. no luck.

 

I completed this mission. Bombed a train and shot down a Lagg. Who needs a Katschmarek anyway?

 

The simple solution is an air start, but they don't bomb the target anyway. They are good bait for fighters on an intercept though. I have made a bug report. They listed it as fixed in the update log. Not fixed IMHO.

 

First wingman veers to port

 

 

Crash... 1 down

 

 

2 down

 

 

last one clipped a tree on his way in.

 

 

[33lima]

Yeah that exactly what I see with the Stukas, Jaegermeister. Sometimes one makes it, sometimes they all crack up like those FWs. Having come to the same conclusion as Dakpilot - that the player's presence and actions were somehow contributing to the AI screwing up - I have tried pulling off the active and letting them go first, turning after takeoff, not turning with a shallow climbout, a steep(er) climbout...no better.

 

Whatever the sweet spot is, I can't find it for a Stuka.

 

Tried an autopilot takeoff from a standing start and 'George' just sat there and did nothing, probably to avoid being blamed if it still went t*ts up

Edited January 12, 2015 by 33lima

[SharpeXB]

I had this happen today. I don't think I've seen it often though. What I think happened was I didn't take off fast enough and they swerved to avoid me on the runway. Usually I gun the engine full on takeoff but this time I was slower. Don't know if that's the only cause though.

[33lima]

Yep it could be something as simple as that. AI Stuka, AI led formation of 6 takes off fine, no crashes, from Pitomnik in the Stuka escort Bf 109 single mission. Flight led by the player tries the same from the same airfield in a campaign mission, most AI Stukas (and sometimes other planes it now seems) crash.

 

The AI start their takeoff runs a set interval after the leader starts moving. If the player is the leader and does not take off as slickly as an AI leader would, the following AI Stukas maybe slow down and take off at too low an airspeed; the AI don't check 'Am I going fast enough, to make this post-takeoff turn?' and Whammo!

 

I wonder if the guy on your right, who can usually (and often does) just fly past you, usually gets off ok, and it's the one behind that usually crashes?

 

Anyway, whatever the cause, this really needs a fix. Ground start campaign missions in Stukas are effectively non-flyable at the moment. It's bad enough you only get a flight of 3 or 4 (5 to 10 would be a realistic minimum I believe) on a bombing mission; but rather ridiculous if you end up having to fly the mission yourself, or a single wingman if you're lucky. Even if there are issues organising an effective flight attack when you get to the target, getting there on your own just feels silly.

Edited January 13, 2015 by 33lima

[SharpeXB]

I have flown a lot of campaign missions and have only seen my wingmen crash a few times. Many Stuka missions too. Maybe the trick is when you take off, go full throttle right away. Or they will crash trying to avoid you.

[heinkill]

If you leave the whole flight to take off on autopilot there seem to be no problems, even with 1000kg bombs, so I assume (dangerous word there) it is some bearing of what the 'pilot' does that causes the AI to do daft things...

This

 

I copy what the AI does in an autopilot take off, stay low and fast so that wingies dont overtake you, and make a slow sweeping turn soon after takeoff. If you stuff up your takeoff and are too slow, they founder. Shouldnt be like that, but is.

 

And applies to landing as well. If you try to land without being in a landing pattern your dumb AI wingies will often follow you into the ground.

 

H