ExpendableWendel Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 So I'm setting up my Warthog profile and I notice that when I program a command that uses shift/alt/control + another key, for example alt + A, the game recognizes the input as both alt + A, and also A. Programming a button for nav lights (cntl + L) results in cycling instrument/cockpit lights (L) as well as nav lights. The game is seeing the input as correct, and also without the ctrl/alt/shift at the same time. This is very strange as other games have had no issue like this, eg il2FB. I'm programming in the advanced GUI, not writing script. Has anyone else seen this or know of a solution?
dburne Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately it is a known problem with how BOS sees those multiple key presses at the same time from TARGET. I believe some of the other joystick profiling software have this issue as well. Only thing is 777 does not view it as such. I ended up using the script editor, and inputting a slight delay between the combo key presses to get BOS to recognize them properly. In fact this was the main motivating factor for me to learn the script editor somewhat so I could accomplish this. If there is a way to introduce that same delay between combo key presses in the advanced GUI, I am not aware of it. Alternatively, maybe for those commands that have combo key presses by default, perhaps you could remap to single key presses that might be available? Edited January 8, 2015 by dburne
ExpendableWendel Posted January 8, 2015 Author Posted January 8, 2015 Lol, thanks for the reply. So many things about this sim are crazy. I've spent so many hours trying to program controllers, trim on rotary, work out the wonky views etc, haven't even got off the ground yet! Unfortunately I'm not incined to spend the amount of time neccessary to lear Target script just to make this work, this is really dissapointing. I spent $100 on the game key, is it possible to sell this?
LoneStar_47 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Don't give up yet. I've discovered that you can get this done without the Target script. Here's what you need to do for each combination key command (Alt, Ctrl, Shift, etc + another key) in Target Command GUI... For example, the key command for Tailwheel Lock-Unlock is "L_SHIFT+g" (that's what I have)... 1. Select your Warthog control, add 4 Events with the "Add Event" button. 2. First Event: Name: Tailwheel Lock-Unlock Key Command: L_SHIFT Type: Press Delay: Default Sequence: Unchecked (empty) Comment: Anything you want IMPORTANT: "SAVE EVENT"...if you don't do this the event is not updated. 3. Second Event: Name: Tailwheel Lock-Unlock Key Command: g Type: Press Delay: Default Sequence: Unchecked (empty) Comment: Anything you want IMPORTANT: "SAVE EVENT"...if you don't do this the event is not updated. 4. Third Event: Name: Tailwheel Lock-Unlock Key Command: g Type: Release Delay: Default Sequence: Unchecked (empty) Comment: Anything you want IMPORTANT: "SAVE EVENT"...if you don't do this the event is not updated. 2. Forth Event: Name: Tailwheel Lock-Unlock Key Command: L_SHIFT Type: Release Delay: Default Sequence: Unchecked (empty) Comment: Anything you want IMPORTANT: "SAVE EVENT"...if you don't do this the event is not updated. Run your updated Configuration and test. Should work. I tested in my BoS and it worked. I also did not believe that this could be done with the Target GUI. It's the same situation in Rise of Flight (and maybe others). I initially tried to use the GUI with Rise of Flight and had conflicts with key combinations so like dburne I learned to use Target Script. I'm not an expert but I can usually get things to work. Just for reference, here's what the above GUI looks like in Script. It's called a CHAIN command in the Target Script. MapKeyIOUMD(&Joystick, S3, CHAIN( DOWN+L_SHIFT, D(), DOWN+'g', D(), UP+'g', D(), UP+L_SHIFT), CHAIN( DOWN+L_SHIFT, D(), DOWN+'g', D(), UP+'g', D(), UP+L_SHIFT), CHAIN( DOWN+L_SHIFT, D(), DOWN+'g', D(), UP+'g', D(), UP+L_SHIFT), CHAIN( DOWN+L_SHIFT, D(), DOWN+'g', D(), UP+'g', D(), UP+L_SHIFT), CHAIN( DOWN+L_SHIFT, D(), DOWN+'g', D(), UP+'g', D(), UP+L_SHIFT), CHAIN( DOWN+L_SHIFT, D(), DOWN+'g', D(), UP+'g', D(), UP+L_SHIFT)); Hope this gets it done for you. I've attached a picture of each Event setup for reference... 1 1
dburne Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Bravo Lonestar! wish I had known how to do that in the gui back when I was trying to figure it out - I am glad I learned to work with the script though.
Sokol1 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Unfortunately it is a known problem with how BOS sees those multiple key presses at the same time from TARGET. Same issue with Joytokey, and if you press (on keyboard) LCtrl+L simultaneous instead press and hold LCtrl and press L the result is the same, panel and navigation lights on. Always need a delay between modifier and the key.
ExpendableWendel Posted January 9, 2015 Author Posted January 9, 2015 Thanks everyone, esp LoneStar, I'll give this a shot. Seems like a crazy issue for 2015?!
LoneStar_47 Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 No problem illegalBeagle. I encounter this problem very early with BoS when I first tried setting up BoS with Target GUI. I had Tailwheel Lock assigned to 'LCtrl+g' and Landing Gear set to 'g'. When I locked my tailwheel, the landing gear collapse dropping my airplane to the ground. At that time, I could not find a solution. In fact this problem was discussed in this forum during the early release phase of BOS. I found I could solve this problem through using Target Script. The problem is not with BoS. It involves how Target GUI and Target Script sends pulse combination key commands to any game. Target GUI and Target Script sends a PULSE LCtl+g command to any game as PRESS 'LCtl', RELEASE 'LCtl', PRESS 'g', RELEASE 'g'. What happens is BoS does not recognize a 'press and release' of the 'LCtl' key but does recognize the 'g' keystoke. BoS does not recognized that these two keystrokes are linked. After reading your post I decided to again try to find a way to get this done with Target GUI. Using my understanding of the CHAIN command in Target Script, I decided to experiment which resulted in this solution in my previous post. In the Target GUI configuration window below 'Run Configuration' there is an option to view the GUI configuration as script (View Script). The View Script button creates a script of the GUI in Notepad. You can see the CHAIN command in the button assignment. Warthog is a great HOTAS. Documentation is weak. I had to learn a lot through experimentation. Good Luck in getting your Warthog configured!
ExpendableWendel Posted January 9, 2015 Author Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Ok I've tried this and it works for button presses - good job! Unfortunately I was not clear in my OP that I actually was trying to map this to a Warthog throttle 2- position throw switch (EFLNORM & EFLOVER), and this works differently. Since these switches are not momentary, the requirement is for the switch to be thrown one position, then another to turn on, then cycled both positions again to turn off. What I was hoping to achieve was for the throw switch acting like a real one, that is, one position to switch on, second position to switch off. I tried mirroring the same functions to both EFLNORM and EFLOVER, but this does not work and cycles interior lights instead. Do you think I can achieve this though Target? The first thing I did when I got my throttle was to open it to see how difficult it would be to replace the switches with momentary ones, but the ways its built, it would be a major undertaking, not a maintenance-friendly design at all. Edited January 9, 2015 by illegalBeagle
ExpendableWendel Posted January 9, 2015 Author Posted January 9, 2015 One other question: if I do remap default keys (which is probably easier), the game does not warn me if the key I want is already used for something else, is there a way to check to prevent unintended consequences?
LoneStar_47 Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 Concerning the EFLNORM and EFLOVER. I agree I wish they 2-way momentary switches. It would have made things much easier. My understanding of the Warthog is that it was designed to mimic A10 Warthog controls as much as possible. Unfortunately these controls do not mimic the controls on other aircraft so we have to work around the differences. You referenced the cockpit light. All of the Russian planes except the Yak-1 have 3 cockpit light settings...off...dim cockpit lights...bright cockpit lights on a 3-position rotary switch. BoS only has one control setting for these lights. I believe the 'L' key is the default setting. Press 'L' the lights turn on to the dim setting. Press 'L' again bright setting is turned on. Press 'L' again turns the lights off. That's not how a 3-position rotary should work. A 3-position rotary would be off-dim-off then back to dim then off. The Yak-1, Bf109, FW190, Stuka are 2-way (on-off). The He111 is similar to the Russian but move from off to instrument lights to cockpit lights (I think). Ok back to Warthog. It might be accomplished with the SEQUENCE command which is available in the GUI. The problem with using SEQUENCE is things get out-of-sequence if one get careless. I normally try to stay away from SEQUENCE commands. I'll have to think this one out more and get back. Maybe someone with more understanding of the Warthog might have some ideas to contribute. I have my cockpit lights assigned to the Warhog Throttle-Autopilot Select Switch which is 3-way. Because BoS cockpits lights command is a toggle (on-off), I assigned the keystroke command to APPAT and APALT. I set the APAH to NULL (no action). Concerning the second question. BoS does not give a text warning when you assigned the same key to multiple commands. What does occur is an small orange box appears in the upper right corner of the assignment box (there are many with the default setup). If you hoover your mouse over the orange box, you will see a text of the other controls assigned to that key. You''ll have to decide whether the duplicate assignment will create a conflict. The default assignments should not have conflicts. For example the 'a' keystroke. Default 'a' is assigned to 'AI-Autopilot on/off'. It's also assigned to 'Move free camera left/right' which is not functional when your flying...no conflict. Hope this helps!
Sokol1 Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) if you remap the keys, for example for singles keys instead use modifier, and this key is used for other event a Orange box appear above the X for event deletion, mouse over and is show for what the function that key is already used. For some functions is not problem use a already used key, example: I set D for Toggle Airbrake (Ju 87 dive brake) and for Toggle Attacksiren (Ju 87 siren), since they use is interrelated. Are various keys that dont have use, like Y, U, J, K... Because BoS cockpits lights command is a toggle (on-off), Il-2 cockpit lights is different than others. Press L turn instruments lights, press L again turn external panel light, press L again and both light are turned off. Or is "ON-ON-OFF". Edited January 9, 2015 by Sokol1
LoneStar_47 Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 You're correct Sokol1! It is "ON-ON-OFF" on most of the aircraft. First "ON" turns on Instrument Lights, second "ON" turns on Cockpit Lights, then "OFF" turns both off. On the Yak-1, its "ON-OFF" but only Cockpits Lights turn on and the HUD message shows "Instrument Lights On" and "Cockpit Lights On". Then the next operation is everything off. Is the behavior you see...the instrument gauges do not light up? I believe the Stuka is the same. Might be a bug, an oversight, or that's just the way the programed these lights. The Bf109 and FW190 just have cockpit lights..."ON-OFF".
ExpendableWendel Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 Thanks, you guys have been a great help. I will try the strategy of remapping default keys so all relevant keys have a modifier or two in front of them. This seems to work so far.It's helpful that the game sees left/right modifiers as different, expanding the number of binding options. Hopefully there are no issues having two modifiers in front of a Warthog generated key, eg. rshift + lalt + L for lights.
Sokol1 Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 You're correct Sokol1! It is "ON-ON-OFF" on most of the aircraft. First "ON" turns on Instrument Lights, second "ON" turns on Cockpit Lights, then "OFF" turns both off. On the Yak-1, its "ON-OFF" but only Cockpits Lights turn on and the HUD message shows "Instrument Lights On" and "Cockpit Lights On". Then the next operation is everything off. Is the behavior you see...the instrument gauges do not light up? I believe the Stuka is the same. Might be a bug, an oversight, or that's just the way the programed these lights. The Bf109 and FW190 just have cockpit lights..."ON-OFF". Bf 109, YAK-3, Ju-87 have only indirect illumination (ON-OFF). He 111 have have instrument illumination for Compass an indirect for center and left panel (ON-ON-OFF), same for remain planes (minus Premium, I don't have these). Since all instrument are phosphorescent painted and nights very clear, all are OK. Will be trick map this in a ON-OFF non momentary switch in practical way. Hopefully there are no issues having two modifiers in front of a Warthog generated key, eg. rshift + lalt + L for lights. You can use RShif+LAlt as modifier for (L) key, but why not use: L = cockpit lights K = navigation lights J = landing lights The last two keys don't have use.
Scrogg Posted January 1, 2017 Posted January 1, 2017 I know this is a 2 year old thread but just wanted to bump and say thanks. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out why my landing gear was folding up when I locked the tailwheel. On a side note; I know most people just map the controls in game but I'd really like to try and make use of the TARGET software and make my game as keyboard free as possible no matter what plane I fly. For someone who has zero programming experience how difficult is it to use the script editor and just how beneficial is it to be able to use those scripts?
dburne Posted January 1, 2017 Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) I know this is a 2 year old thread but just wanted to bump and say thanks. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out why my landing gear was folding up when I locked the tailwheel. On a side note; I know most people just map the controls in game but I'd really like to try and make use of the TARGET software and make my game as keyboard free as possible no matter what plane I fly. For someone who has zero programming experience how difficult is it to use the script editor and just how beneficial is it to be able to use those scripts? The Script Editor is very powerful and what once can do with it is truly amazing. However, it does have a fairly steep learning curve imho. If you are new to all of TARGET, I would suggest starting with the GUI in Advanced Mode. I would not even bother with the basic mode. Once you get comfortable with using the advanced mode in TARGET GUI, then start to proceed to learn the Script Editor. Open up the manual for it and read over it - slowly - several times. Then start to build a script, checking it as you go to make sure there are no errors in it ( just run the program and it gives you an all clear you are good, and then save as you go. Check often and save often as you build the profile. Keep referencing the manual as you go. After a bit of time, it will start to click for you and will become easier to do. The benefits are you can program a lot more functions to each key than you can do within the game, along with other adjustments as well. I have one hat button programmed for exterior views, first press gives fly by, second press chase camera, third press cockpit, then it repeats. All on one button without using a modifier. You can program a button to trim pitch and roll, and program how sensitive each button press is for that trim. Or just press and hold the button to continue trimming until released. You can have both on that same button. You can enter delays between key-presses, that can be beneficial. For instance if you use a modifier, say the paddle button on a stick, so holding it while pressing another button gives a different command to just pressing that button without the paddle. Sometimes in the sim it sees it as pressing both at one time and struggles to work - however with the editor you can introduce a set amount of delay between these two key presses to resolve that. And of course much , much more one can do with it. Hope this helps, Edited January 1, 2017 by dburne
bn880 Posted October 29, 2017 Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) Unfortunately it is a known problem with how BOS sees those multiple key presses at the same time from TARGET. I believe some of the other joystick profiling software have this issue as well. Only thing is 777 does not view it as such. I ended up using the script editor, and inputting a slight delay between the combo key presses to get BOS to recognize them properly. In fact this was the main motivating factor for me to learn the script editor somewhat so I could accomplish this. If there is a way to introduce that same delay between combo key presses in the advanced GUI, I am not aware of it. Alternatively, maybe for those commands that have combo key presses by default, perhaps you could remap to single key presses that might be available? So what's the line you used in the script? :/ (I'm going to figure it out in a few minutes, but why not list it in the first place if you already solved it) Edit: solved, script example for anyone else //define LandingLights CHAIN(R_SHIFT,D(5),PULSE+'l') // not always reliable define LandingLights CHAIN(DOWN+R_SHIFT,D(25),PULSE+'l',D(66),UP+R_SHIFT) MapKey(&Throttle, EORMOTOR, LandingLights); // Landing light Edited October 30, 2017 by bn880
SCG_Fenris_Wolf Posted October 29, 2017 Posted October 29, 2017 Unfortunately it is a known problem with how BOS sees those multiple key presses at the same time from TARGET. I believe some of the other joystick profiling software have this issue as well. Only thing is 777 does not view it as such. I ended up using the script editor, and inputting a slight delay between the combo key presses to get BOS to recognize them properly. In fact this was the main motivating factor for me to learn the script editor somewhat so I could accomplish this. If there is a way to introduce that same delay between combo key presses in the advanced GUI, I am not aware of it. Alternatively, maybe for those commands that have combo key presses by default, perhaps you could remap to single key presses that might be available? I confirm this is NOT the fault of IL 2, but of the warthog's "target" software. Saitek software and logistics mouse software do not have the issue. It is "target" is the logical conclusion.
US103_Baer Posted November 7, 2017 Posted November 7, 2017 I know this is a 2 year old thread but just wanted to bump and say thanks. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out why my landing gear was folding up when I locked the tailwheel. Me too! thanks all S!
dburne Posted November 7, 2017 Posted November 7, 2017 I confirm this is NOT the fault of IL 2, but of the warthog's "target" software. Saitek software and logistics mouse software do not have the issue. It is "target" is the logical conclusion. Well I could say similar, I had no problem in other sims where it worked just fine, only in this one... No worries though as I don't even use the software any more.
WWSandMan Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 Gentle bump, for good and still relevant, if old, information.
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