Developer Diary, Part 33

[Han]

For once I'm less than thrilled with the update. It's not about the FMs or the visuals of the world, but the lay out of villages.

 

I know this is the developers diary, and what we see are "work so far", but the map seems to suffer from the same problem with village lay-out that has plagued old IL2 from the beginning. A map this size must by necessity be auto-populated, but it should be possible put in some houses that do not line as accurately as in the pick. To illustrate what I mean, look at the development shot and a village from outside Moskva (from Google Earth):

 

Village Armazova, outside Moskva. Some houses are obviously modern, but the fences and fields seem to follow traditional lines.

 

Unless one uses GPS when lining up and planning a village, no village will be as lined up as the development shot. Even in the Sovjet era, villages grew organically to some extent. I really hope they get someone to have a look at the auto-generating routine before the map ships.

 

In Stalingrad area big villages (towns) are unusualy orthogonal:

 

http://maps.yandex.ru/?ll=44.060632%2C48.675247&spn=0.016952%2C0.006146&z=17&l=sat

 

We were surprised too. But we have done as in reality.

 

Anyway, small villages are much less regular and this is represented too.

[FlatSpinMan]

Very interesting read, thank you! While mostly an interesting general description, it even answered some of the detail question I had on my mind. Good information, and nice pictures, too.

You dog! Your avatar pic is a crime against human decency!  

[Alx]

Great update. I agree on both sides about the terrain. What is presented at the moment (granted it's only alpha) looks too simplistic. What is possible in a FPS is too detailed. Surley the villages can be constructed so they are not all on a grid and every house doesn't have a perfect equally sized rectangular fence? That in itself wouldn't increase the number of objects to be drawn, but would add significantly to the effect of reality. i.e., I don't think it's the amount of ground clutter that's the problem, it's the perfect regularity of it that is.

[FlatSpinMan]

That pic Viks posted does show where they're coming from, but the in-game shot does seem too right-angled and proper. But then, I've never researched this stuff, yet I'm fairly sure they have.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

In Stalingrad area big villages (towns) are unusualy orthogonal:

 

http://maps.yandex.ru/?ll=44.060632%2C48.675247&spn=0.016952%2C0.006146&z=17&l=sat

 

We were surprised too. But we have done as in reality.

 

Anyway, small villages are much less regular and this is represented too.

I think, primarily, you just need to put some irregularities into the fence lines. Break up the ruler marks a bit. Even the fences in the map you've provided seem to have been done by hand/string line and not with a laser or surveyor. Should be a simple fix.

[Blitzen]

Target fixation will haunt my dreams,but if its anything like RoF or for that matter CloD vehicles can be very tough to see without visual aids. In the new Malta Modded version of CloD you can pick them out but that because of the barren landscape.

  The older Il-2 seemed to be a bit easier esp with modded dusk  etc.

[FlatSpinMan]

Really? Old IL2 is easier to spot ground objects? That's a bummer, as I often found them nearly impossible to spot unless massed or else lit up by 'campfires'.

[royraiden]

Very good update indeed.Thanks for all the info.

[E69truppen]

thanks for the update

[Bearcat]

One of the interesting take aways I got from this was that this team has experience in pretty much evbery level of flight simulation from WWI to modern era and VTOL.. ie helos.. very good imo ..

[FuriousMeow]

Something cosmetic, and somewhat neat to have, would be smoke coming out of the chimneys. It's clearly winter, so might add a little more to the environment. Maybe as a graphics option.

[Matt]

Nice update. Also good to see, that it doesn't say "early" alpha on those screenshots anymore .

[III/JG11_Tiger]

Nice update.

[EAF51_Nepe]

Great post Han, thanks a lot for so much interesting info about flight models; lots of things there I always wanted to know.

 

Cheers!

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Cheers for the update, a very good read.

 

About the village, i would agree it looks a little too well set out, too perfect.

 

Im sure this can be looked into before release.

 

The vehicles and the troops look great though!

[Heywooood]

_{in old IL2 we had cloud whine and water whine (see Lexx Luther) among other whines,  and now we have snow whine....}

_{and neighborhood layout whine no less}

 

lets bend those streets and curve those fences eh? this IS a flight sim after all, yes?

[Jason_Williams]

Guys,

 

For all who are complaining about the village layout. Our system of scenery is very flexible, as has been proven with ROF, if you want to make new villages or tweak old ones, it can be done in the ME and used later in your missions. If it's really good maybe we'll include it as official as we have done with ROF on one occasion. As has been pointed out by Han, we are making a flight-sim and intense detail on the ground is nice, but not absolutely necessary and too much can ruin your fun. Our Stalingrad map covers a part of the war where it was  harsh winter and there was A LOT of snow. If that makes for a bland landscape, then blame history. 

 

As has been mentioned many times, we are more concerned with making a product that works, not one that makes every promise under the sun only to under-deliver.

 

Jason

[Freycinet]

Admirable focus on delivering on time and on budget by the team. Village lay-out is very secondary when you are actually up and flying the sim. If it gets improved along the way, great.

[Stray]

only 3 aircraft ready so far with supposedly 10 available with premium preorder?

[TheBlackPenguin]

Feel the chills when looking at those picture, brrrr...Cannot wait until we get our paws on the Alpha .

only 3 aircraft ready so far with supposedly 10 available with premium preorder?

 

Release date is set for spring 2014, the Alpha is due anytime and its likely to feature a lot of missing content, Spring is still sometime away, for the full release

Edited September 20, 2013 by TheBlackPenguin

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

Guys,

 

For all who are complaining about the village layout. Our system of scenery is very flexible, as has been proven with ROF, if you want to make new villages or tweak old ones, it can be done in the ME and used later in your missions. If it's really good maybe we'll include it as official as we have done with ROF on one occasion.

 

I fully understand the need to finish the sim first, and add details latter. I'd be more than happy to help out liven up the villages a bit based on Google Earth or other suitable resources.

[SCG_Neun]

Great read on the FM evolution! 

[EAF_Paf]

If it will be somewhat like ROF it is indeed possible to change the village- and city- layout to whatever you want:

 

 

 

 

 

[I./JG1_Baron]

Guys,

 

For all who are complaining about the village layout. Our system of scenery is very flexible, as has been proven with ROF, if you want to make new villages or tweak old ones, it can be done in the ME and used later in your missions. If it's really good maybe we'll include it as official as we have done with ROF on one occasion. As has been pointed out by Han, we are making a flight-sim and intense detail on the ground is nice, but not absolutely necessary and too much can ruin your fun. Our Stalingrad map covers a part of the war where it was  harsh winter and there was A LOT of snow. If that makes for a bland landscape, then blame history. 

 

As has been mentioned many times, we are more concerned with making a product that works, not one that makes every promise under the sun only to under-deliver.

 

Jason

 

 

Well said

[BlueHeron]

As has been mentioned many times, we are more concerned with making a product that works, not one that makes every promise under the sun only to under-deliver.

 

That sounds conspicuously like a plan for success!!

 

90% of the flight sim experience is what happens in the skies and in your cockpit.  What you see on the ground is great for immersion but there is only a certain level of detail that you can possibly notice in gameplay.  The rest will never be seen except by those making movies.

 

Great update by the way, loved the discussion on flight models.

[Klaue]

S! THX for the update. Good Job.   

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

For once I'm less than thrilled with the update. It's not about the FMs or the visuals of the world, but the lay out of villages.

 

I know this is the developers diary, and what we see are "work so far", but the map seems to suffer from the same problem with village lay-out that has plagued old IL2 from the beginning. A map this size must by necessity be auto-populated, but it should be possible put in some houses that do not line as accurately as in the pick. To illustrate what I mean, look at the development shot and a village from outside Moskva (from Google Earth):

 

 

 

Village Armazova, outside Moskva. Some houses are obviously modern, but the fences and fields seem to follow traditional lines.

 

 

 

Unless one uses GPS when lining up and planning a village, no village will be as lined up as the development shot. Even in the Sovjet era, villages grew organically to some extent. I really hope they get someone to have a look at the auto-generating routine before the map ships.

 

+1- I agree.. it looks...lifelss with everything exaclty lined up and the same.. I hope they are only placeholders... Other than that a GREAT update

 

Something cosmetic, and somewhat neat to have, would be smoke coming out of the chimneys. It's clearly winter, so might add a little more to the environment. Maybe as a graphics option.

 

well put... good idea if feasible

[Taxman]

Thanks for the update.  Lots of information, looking forward to the early release

[tempered]

All the talk about the improved FM makes me want to see the old ROF air flow demo remade with the planes of IL2 BOS.  Really looking forward to this sim.

[ImPeRaToR]

If it will be somewhat like ROF it is indeed possible to change the village- and city- layout to whatever you want:

Very nice

[Mac_Messer]

Impressive fm/dm stuff. Hope you guys can put out a playable demo sometime before the release.

[Volkoff]

Thanks for all of the great info, regarding the FM's. BTW, the screenies look absolutely wonderful.  MJ

[HippyDruid]

That's a very concise read on the history of FM. Cheers.

Andrey certainly is a very talented lad!

 

Thanks for the update.

 

 

[I/JG27_Zimmi]

Thanks for this update I think many pilots out there really appreciate that information. Keep on the work I'm looking forward being part of the progress in mit autumn :D

[ACG_Kraut]

I think the best definition of the on-rails FM is *cringe* BF3. I know it's not at all meant to be modeling real flight there, but it gets the point of what you mean by "on-rails" across.

 

Everything still looking great as usual!

Edited September 21, 2013 by [AKA]Kraut

[Cybermat47]

Something cosmetic, and somewhat neat to have, would be smoke coming out of the chimneys. It's clearly winter, so might add a little more to the environment. Maybe as a graphics option.

I agree. Or did the people living in or near Stalingrad evacuate when the Germans were approaching?

[1./JG42Nephris]

Great update ,thx a lot for reasonable and serious contacts to the Community.

Cant follow the concerns of villages. I like what i see , the comparison to Iron Front is nonsenee, as that game is,will and never was working or lookin like the posted render screens.In a distance of 20m not much remains after first lod switched. I ll fly at a min. speed of 240km/h in 100m height and wont bother on roof details, but the guy around my clock or the ground targets i ll attack.

Drive with 150kmh only in ur car through a village and tell us later about details in the village....;-)

 

All secondary details will probably add immersion but substract fps, i am sure most pilots will prefer fps in low level flight.So unsure about chimney fx, as it adds nofunction like fx at cars or planes to recon them from above as moving target.Chimney fx would probably just pop in suddenly which wouldnt look as well inflight but on screens.

 

However, i am also no jet simmer so i d be also interested in what that dev update means compared to Rof or Clodo fm.

For myself the Rof flight feeling wasnt reached up to now....imo of course.

Edited September 21, 2013 by 1./JG42Nephris

[ST_ami7b5]

^^ IMO the 'demand' was more about villages not looking too 'uniform', so you could better recognize/remember them when flying just with a map (for navigation).  

 

But it can be solved very easily like we can see in RoF.

Edited September 21, 2013 by ami7b5

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

90% of the flight sim experience is what happens in the skies and in your cockpit.  What you see on the ground is great for immersion but there is only a certain level of detail that you can possibly notice in gameplay.  The rest will never be seen except by those making movies.

You are undoubtly right as much as fighters are concerned. If you intend to fly the sims namesake, village layout becomes a whole lot more relevant to gameplay and immersion.

 

The sim need to get going first though. I really hope we can have a system where user imput can be incorporated in the map as Jason indicated. That would ad another layer of things to do with the sim!

[Bussard_x]

We have drivers, good!