How easy / hard will it be for new pilots to play BOS?

[Circleplanes]

Hey guys. 

 

I have played some flight simulators back in the day. Like Aces over Europe and Flight Simulator 2000 I also have some experience from RC flying "just started doing that".

 

I recently started playing a flight simulator that gives you an option to fly arcade mode, historic battles and full real battles. The full real battles made me curious and when I tried to take of I crashed. Which made me

even more intrigued and made me want to learn to fly like that. So I purchased a Thrustmaster joystick. Assembled a 3 point trackir cap and bought a webcam and started flying easy.

 

I then found this game IL2 BOS I have pre ordered the premium. I have been watching the developer blogs on youtube and now I want to ask you guys.

 

How hard will it be to fly in this game? I do not have full knowledge about the rotor pitch and all that.

[=LD=Scronce]

I'm in pretty much the same position as this guy. I also fly that certain game which will not be named ^^. Can't wait to delve into this.

[JaMz]

Full Real & CEM (Complex Engine Managment) isnt that hard to master. Like anything it just takes time, Everyone for the most part will be learning at first with BoS. having previous CEM experience in games helps sure, but its not the be all and end all.

 

Every Sim is different, different physics, different engine running it so how you fly in game (A) wouldnt automaticaly be applied for game (B)

 

Once we have our hands on it then for me personaly it will be lots of SP missions before I jump into the MP world

[kevman]

As with most things practice, practice. There is plenty of info on prop pitch and complex engine management(cem) on the web so dont worry about that. If you do enjoy full realism a set of pedals helps alot.

 

I would say the hardest thing to get used to is the restricted view flying with full cockpit. You have a head tracking solution which helps loads with this.

 

Also players who fly full realism tend to be fairly experienced. Get on teamspeak and get some wingmen and you will be fine.

[Allons]

At this point nobody will be able to definitely state about how easy BoS will be for new pilots. As long as we dont have the Beta out, we only have IL2-1946 as sort of a reference. Remembering my intro into the IL2-1946 commmunity (bought the game -> had questions -> visited the forum -> got answers from some online squads -> joined their servers in Teamspeak) i can only advise you to buy some used flightstick like the Saitek X-45, a microphone and stick to the community via Teamspeak. Flying regularly, sticking to people and with a certain amount of dedication you should be able to fly and fight with some success within 8 weeks.

 

Best, Allons!

[mudpuppy]

The short (and probably not helpful) answer would be that I think this sim will be as hard as we wish to make it with as many 'full realism' settings on as possible.  But I do know that when I first bought the Il-2 series many years ago I had a blast flying all kinds of plane with ease and shooting down enemies left and right.....until I decided I should get off the arcade settings and try something a bit more realistic. 

I crashed on take-offs, I crashed on landings.  When I did manage to get in the air I either burned out my motor or sprayed the sky with bullets that just seemed to alert the enemy to come pick me off.  I had picked up some very bad habits by starting in the arcade type settings.  Granted I was very enthused about the game, but lacked any skills once I turned all those "helpers" off.

 

I found the best way to get back some small degree of competence was to start a mission designed for beginners and build my skills there.  And I read...a lot....about how to manage the different planes but more importantly I found articles on complex engine management and combat techniques.

This post is a great start: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1314-help-me-crack-mysteries-cem/?hl=cem

Especially look at post #5.

 

After all this rambling, I should end with saying I don't know for sure about BoS, but with the experience you have in other sims I think you'll do fine.  You may not have the difficulty I did when tackling more realistic settings but research and looking for knowledge in this (or other) forum will get you to where you want to be.

Regards,

Derek

[Sturm_]

Generally speaking, in every serious sim, you can adjust little by little the detail of complexity you want for your Flight Model. I believe this game will not be the exception, and so, you can tune the difficulty as you prefer for your offline training, or find a server with reduced difficulty settings for your first combat experiences.

 

In Il-2 1946 it took me about 10 hours to learn how to land properly (yes, a single manouver) in full difficulty switch (and that's no guarantee that I do it 100% correctly). But in the meantime, I had fun playing in fast action servers, so I didn't get frustrated by my many hours of non-stop failures.

 

Just take it easy, and if you are part of a Squad, fly with them, organize practice sessions, and let the veterans teach you (I offer my help to anyone interested for this matter, when Summer comes and I'm allowed in the beta).

[=LD=Scronce]

Thanks mates

[SYN_Mike77]

One way to find out in a general way would be to try out the sim that this game is based on:  Rise of Flight.  It is a World War One sim so the planes are much different.  In some ways harder to fly but with less controls to worry about as well.  You can get a good feel for the way planes handle and it is a blast as well!  You can download it for free at  http://riseofflight.com/tryrof/en

[II./JG77Timairborne]

Im more worried about spot the dot mechanics than CEM to be honest.

[ImPeRaToR]

Im more worried about spot the dot mechanics than CEM to be honest.

There won't be dots.

[SYN_Mike77]

Spot the dots?  what does that even mean?

[theOden]

Hopefully there will be somekinda "easy mode" so we get new blood into the virtual skies.

As they pay the bill I will get to fly Tomahawk IIb up in Leningrad sometime soon I'm sure.

[Circleplanes]

Great! I will read the post on CEM and look at ROF. What a great community this game has.

 

Thank you for all the quick reply´s

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

for the beging choose a gman fighter, they have a one lever system for their CEM. So you havent toomuch to look about it.

Hopefully 777 will give manualinformations about the planes/engines limits !

[VeryOldMan]

Flying wont be that hard.  Landing a 109  might be complicated for a newcomer, as well as  fighting on the edge. But  if you practice with the less snappy planes first, you will not have problems.

[=LD=Hethwill]

An easy mode teaches nothing. If anything it will make it harder to get out of it, being a comfort zone and get to the sim mode.

 

As a good flying buddy says - It is all about the Ego. Once you get over the urge to be an ace in a day you start learning way faster.

 

Test flying, practice, spending time just learning the plane is part of the initial approach to any sim, be it for a newcomer or a old blood.

 

Salute!

[II./JG77Timairborne]

There won't be dots.

 Thank god

 

 

Spot the dots?  what does that even mean?

 

its a bad mechanic from another game

[=LD=Hethwill]

Spot the Dot... *sneeze*.... contacts everywhere Sir !!! 

[ST_ami7b5]

They are in front, they are behind, they are on the left, they are on the right...

Excellent! Now they won't escape!

 

back on topic, one of many helpers: http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Knowledge_Base&op=show&kid=249

Edited September 19, 2013 by ami7b5

[Jason_Williams]

Hey guys. 

 

I have played some flight simulators back in the day. Like Aces over Europe and Flight Simulator 2000 I also have some experience from RC flying "just started doing that".

 

I recently started playing a flight simulator that gives you an option to fly arcade mode, historic battles and full real battles. The full real battles made me curious and when I tried to take of I crashed. Which made me

even more intrigued and made me want to learn to fly like that. So I purchased a Thrustmaster joystick. Assembled a 3 point trackir cap and bought a webcam and started flying easy.

 

I then found this game IL2 BOS I have pre ordered the premium. I have been watching the developer blogs on youtube and now I want to ask you guys.

 

How hard will it be to fly in this game? I do not have full knowledge about the rotor pitch and all that.

 

 

TK,

 

Yes, go download and fly ROF to get a feel for it all. If you can master some of the trickier planes in ROF you'll have no problem with these more stable WWII planes. Also learn how to adjust your joystick curves. Makes a big difference in your control. Every joystick is different and this helps make your stick feel more natural once it's set up right.

 

Welcome to the community.

 

Jason

[SYN_DerHesse70]

I recommend you:

 

Start without any help in full real mode and practice as much as possible in multiplayer. That is the best for fast learning. Otherwise you do all the learning double.

 

And do you a favour and buy a TrackIR and some good pedals.

 

My first flight sim was ROF. It was a real challenge for me. But after one year a can stand on my own in multiplayer (most of the time).

[Volkoff]

It depends on what you are into, but I would download ROF and start using a SPAD XIII, in preparation for using a BF-109 in IL2 BOS. I would then practice the fundamentals of hit and run ambushing in ROF multiplayer. If you get good with ambushing in a SPAD, a BF-109 will be childs play. A BF-109 is a SPAD with super powers. The BF-109 will be able to out climb, out dive, out run, out turn, and possibly out roll, a LaGG-3. Engine management in the 109F or 109G should not be that big of a deal, when compared to te LaGG-3. Since you are just starting out, your biggest weakness will probably be poor situational awareness. Hit and run ambush attacks down always work, but they work well enough, because most persons don't have perfect situational awareness. Just last week I was bounced twice, by the same guy, within a twenty minute period. I was distracted by what was going on around me in my computer room and I wasn't focused on what was going on around me in game. Bad for me, good for my attacker.

 

 To prepare for using a BF-109, the better fighter for a newbie, (relative to a LaGG-3)  take a SPAD, climb out above your opponents and make one pass, surprise, hit and run attacks, like the one I make in my example below:

 

 https://vimeo.com/46989205

 

 MJ

Edited September 19, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

MIKHA, a bounce like that gives me a warm feeling inside and gets me slightly aroused in a air combat sort of way

Edited September 19, 2013 by =BKHZ=Furbs

[Circleplanes]

It depends on what you are into, but I would download ROF and start using a SPAD XIII, in preparation for using a BF-109 in IL2 BOS. I would then practice the fundamentals of hit and run ambushing in ROF multiplayer. If you get good with ambushing in a SPAD, a BF-109 will be childs play. A BF-109 is a SPAD with super powers. The BF-109 will be able to out climb, out dive, out run, out turn, and possibly out roll, a LaGG-3. Engine management in the 109F or 109G should not be that big of a deal, when compared to te LaGG-3. Since you are just starting out, your biggest weakness will probably be poor situational awareness. Hit and run ambush attacks down always work, but they work well enough, because most persons don't have perfect situational awareness. Just last week I was bounced twice, by the same guy, within a twenty minute period. I was distracted by what was going on around me in my computer room and I wasn't focused on what was going on around me in game. Bad for me, good for my attacker.

 

 To prepare for using a BF-109, the better fighter for a newbie, (relative to a LaGG-3)  take a SPAD, climb out above your opponents and make one pass, surprise, hit and run attacks, like the one I make in my example below:

 

 https://vimeo.com/46989205

 

 MJ

 

Nice one.

 

I have just downloaded ROF and installed it. I will play some tonight. Work out joystick settings and freetrack. The Bf-109 will definitely be my choice as I like the boom and zoom tactic and being an energy fighter.

So I will be playing the SPAD tonight

 

 TK

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

I recommend you:

 

Start without any help in full real mode and practice as much as possible in multiplayer. That is the best for fast learning. Otherwise you do all the learning double.

 

And do you a favour and buy a TrackIR and some good pedals.

 

My first flight sim was ROF. It was a real challenge for me. But after one year a can stand on my own in multiplayer (most of the time).

I was going to say that! I always start a new game on hard/ace mode. That is the quickest way to learn. Free track might be ok if you have the computer to run a webcam and the game without slowing it down. But pedals..a must IMO.

Start a quick mission in ROF on ace mode with one plane to fight and practice like that until you can beat him..then hit multiplayer for some real one on one.

As Jason said set your joystick curves up (roll, pitch, yaw) That will take some time to get it just where you want it..remember to click apply before you exit the controls screen.

And welcome to the forums TK!

Edited September 19, 2013 by Blackwolf

[mudpuppy]

I have to say there have been some great responses here from the community.  Besides making me feel all warm and fuzzy, it gives me hope there will be some excellent "How-to's" and "Beginners Guides" in a short while after the sim is released.

(And to echo what more than a few folks said about starting in more realistic modes; it is best.  I did not when I first loaded Il-2 and I spent a lot of time un-learning bad habits.)

Glad to be here,

Derek

[FuriousMeow]

Starting to learn at full difficulty is actually the best approach. Otherwise as the difficulty is amped up, unexpected things begin to happen and what was previously successful or easily accomplished now results in smashing into the ground. Sure, it's difficult - but in the shorter run it's actually easier.

 

It's like R/C flying, those 3axis trainer planes are the worst thing ever. Throttle/elevator/rudder. In most cases, the rudder on the 3axis is actually the aileron on the 4+axis planes transmitter. So now bad habits are learned, the wrong controls are learned, and the next step up (4+axis) is a waste of money since it was crashed due to learning a comletely different control system that was previously comfortable and fully manageable.

 

Sure it'll be frustrating to dive right in full difficulty at first, but it will be frustarting for a much shorter duration of time.

Edited September 19, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[Circleplanes]

Excellent tips. It makes sense to start at the most difficult settings, if it is where you want to be in the future. And that is what I want, As much realism as possible.

[Rjel]

To each his own but if someone is new or even returning to sims after many years, jumping online with full real difficulty settings might be a sure way to get discouraged real fast. While there are some great people out there, there are more than a few who love to make someone's experience less than pleasurable. I'd suggest learning to fly properly first if for nothing else but to learn the feel of the aircraft of your choice. Explore the game a bit, learn what you can and pop a few AI enemy. Then jump online if and when you choose to.

[Fifi]

TK,

 

Yes, go download and fly ROF to get a feel for it all. If you can master some of the trickier planes in ROF you'll have no problem with these more stable WWII planes. Also learn how to adjust your joystick curves. Makes a big difference in your control. Every joystick is different and this helps make your stick feel more natural once it's set up right.

 

Welcome to the community.

 

Jason

 

That's excellent news Jason! ...even though speed might be completely different! lol

[FuriousMeow]

Well of course you shouldn't go online full difficulty if it's new. Go for a swim in a small private pool first, don't go running off to the Olympics.

Edited September 20, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[Crow]

I think a middle ground is best. The most difficult transition will be to go from an easy flight model to a hard one, so I suggest starting with all of the flight model stuff on hard. Other things like icons, engine management, etc. you adjust to be as easy as you feel you need. The important thing is to not form bad habits with how you fly the airplane. If you do that, you will find it VERY difficult to transition, which is why I suggest avoiding the problem by using the hard flight model from the start.

[II./JG77Timairborne]

I think a middle ground is best. The most difficult transition will be to go from an easy flight model to a hard one, so I suggest starting with all of the flight model stuff on hard. Other things like icons, engine management, etc. you adjust to be as easy as you feel you need. The important thing is to not form bad habits with how you fly the airplane. If you do that, you will find it VERY difficult to transition, which is why I suggest avoiding the problem by using the hard flight model from the start.

Agree. Hopefully they have a bunch of guys that will be posting how to videos and manuals to help out the newer players. Like me lol. I probably have spent as much time researching acm and other things as I have played actual sims. 

[III/JG11_Tiger]

Im more worried about spot the dot mechanics than CEM to be honest.

 

Shouldn't be an issue if ROF is anything to go by.

[Bearcat]

An easy mode teaches nothing. If anything it will make it harder to get out of it, being a comfort zone and get to the sim mode. As a good flying buddy says - It is all about the Ego. Once you get over the urge to be an ace in a day you start learning way faster. Test flying, practice, spending time just learning the plane is part of the initial approach to any sim, be it for a newcomer or a old blood. Salute!

This.... and what Jason said. Whatever you do NEVER fudge on the flight characteristics (no aids as far as the actual flying goes.. no auto rudder.. use full CEM etc..) and learn to fly the plane before you start trying to fight in it and don't go online until you can at least take off and land.

 

When I first got into IL2 I spent the first month or so in the QMB (quick mission builder) . The first time I tried to take off however was online in a Df room.. It took about 9 attempts before I was successful. Needless to say my first few months on HL were spent largely running for my virtual life and trying to keep my P-39 out of a flatspin.

 

This is the appeal of a true flight sim though. The challenge.... and this is why it is a good thing that arcade flyers will have an arcade sim .. one that they can graduate from .. and move on to any number of more challenging Sims.

[LordNeuro*Srb*]

Yes and there is no greater achievement in fight sim  but when you succeed to fly and score 1 kill in full real server. Iven now i remember the 1 kill on syndicate server (1 of the best in rof) in rof. But i guess like in real life the more hours in plane the beter pilot u r. So practice practise and practise. And i hope there will be same video like Requiem mayde in rof, it relly helps.

[Mac_Messer]

Hey guys. 

(...)

How hard will it be to fly in this game? I do not have full knowledge about the rotor pitch and all that.

Well so far all we can do is assume some things. Many folks here say to try Rise of Flight so you get the feeling of it.

 

I started from the very same position as yours in 2000. Now I have approx. 800 combatflightsim hours on my belt. How do you think you will compare to me? My point is that it takes time.

You learn the basics pretty fast actually. It is the combat situation when you need them to be as polished as possible and in combat your lack of light time counts the most.

The thing is, the deeper you delve into flying such a sim, you get to know the community. Many people will help you just like that for starters. Then you join an online squadron and learn from the best. You use their experience gained oveer the years to make yourself better, plus you gain flight discipline. So basicly you get a shortcut to being a better virtual pilot. From then on all it depends on is your interest in getting better and better.

[BMA_West]

Some practical advice for tackling ROF.

Open QM (quick mission) and engage first in free flights (skirmish without opponent) by taking off and before you know you will need to learn to land :O)

How to do it exactly:

- address the aircraft guides:

http://riseofflight.com/en/community/usefulmaterials

- Requiem's videos on his You Tube Channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Requiem10NS

 

For settings select expert and add:

-autopilot;

-icons;

-aiming help;

-padlock;

-simple gauges.

Learn next in game how to toggle every single one of those on/off.

Autopilot is useful to engage in order to get your hands free or simply to observe how to get out of a pickle, AI-wise.

It is a start like with most things and in the long run you'll learn the hard way how to ridicule a single AI from novice up, but that will be later, much later.

Icons and padlock will learn you situational awareness in the air and on the map but try more and more to make do without by toggling them off.

Aiming help learns insight in deviation shooting, so will slowing down the speed of the game, by using "[" and "]" to get back to normal speed.

Toggling icons on/off is usefull to find out what to look for, where/how to zoom in.

 

Simple gauges tell you a lot about the plane:

- it's stall and max diving airspeed (that last one will excide the max airspeed cockpit dial);

- limits rpm and ensuing engine over management;

- appropriate radiator temperature;

- actual throttle, gas mixture and radiator settings;

- absence of mixture or radiator read out means automated system for those;

- altitude and compass.

Next learn to find the read out dials in the different cockpits, so you can do with normal (small) gauges that will still tell you:

- actual throttle, gas mixture and radiator settings;

- absence of mixture or radiator read out means automated system for those.

As a general you may go for a 20% mix and close the radiator 3/4.

Learn to fine tune mix for highest rpm, manage radiator for 70°C water temperature.

And set up a blip switch for your rotary engines to assist in faster prevention of over revving engine.

 

Want to learn BnZ, first address shooting skills and later start by trying it out rather on AI team mates, 'cause enemy AI will always be aware of your approach and take action.

 

Edited September 23, 2013 by West

[Quax]

Hi Circleplanes,

 

do what has been proposed a few times: Get RoF and do flight training with the free Alby. All german 109 pilots had to be proficient on the Bücker Jungmann (Alby is a great substitute)  first, before they continued with the FW44, Klemm35 etc. until they did their first 109 flight.

And forget everything you think you have learned with games like Flight Simulator 2000. That has nothing to do with flying. You will see

Before you are not able to take off, land (100% safe without ground loops and nose overs) and do simple aerobatics with the Alby, don´t take another plane. That would be a realistic approach. Have fun !

 

 

 

And do you a favour and buy a TrackIR and some good pedals. 

 

 

RoF is for free, but you have to spend at least some bucks into this hardware.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Quax