Battle of Moscow next?

[Mastermariner]

 

This would be a natural sequel to Stalingrad in my humble opinion. Many, perhaps most, airplanes, cars, tanks etc are already in place and landscape features are similar.

 

Watch this series, not completely uploaded to YouTube yet, more then fifty episodes and see the potential for yourself.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhCRu6j8zA8&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL9JHK36G0bIXBN_1dyDkFYi_emce3V8Je

 

Master

[Trooper117]

No thanks... Let's get away from Russia and hit the sunny skies of the Med and North Africa.

Think about all those early aircraft and the fantastic colour schemes the skinners could add to that as well.

As it stands, it has already been mentioned by the devs we are going to the Kuban next.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

I think a lot of people want the med, but its going to be at least 1 more trip to the east before we do.

[Matt]

I think the most natural sequel to BoS would be Battle of Kursk.

 

Having the eastern front theatre without a summer map would be pretty sad.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Matt

[Rjel]

I think a lot of people want the med, but its going to be at least 1 more trip to the east before we do.

I think so too. Another eastern front map would make for a quicker sequel. It would help retain the fan base if it is released within a few months of BoS. With that done, then the series would be off to a good start leading to who knows what theater next?

[BFsSmurfy]

Kursk or Kuban would be my guess, I`d like the Med but can`t see it being a quick addition. If BoS sells well and we get another EF add-on the 110, 88 and Hs129 could be useful elsewhere in the future.

[Corsair]

Italy or West-Germany front are the theaters I want next.

[Cybermat47]

Seeing as we already have all the things for he Eastern Front, keep it there.

[Trooper117]

Right, and if the original IL2 had just stayed in the eastern front they would still have sold as many copies?

Oleg Maddox expanded to other theatres because? 

There are many WWII aviaton fans out there and they all don't revel in the eastern front.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

not Moskau i guess, the soviets were even more inferior in planeset that in Stalingrad.

I belive in a Kuban 43 scenario. Lot of western lend and lease planes, nice scenerie and the possibility to use the RoF's channel map watertechnologie.

Edited September 22, 2013 by III/JG53Frankyboy

[Uufflakke]

Still a pity though that nothing came out of COD's sequel Battle of Moscow.

 

I am not talking about COD's gameplay etc etc but BoM screenshots look so nice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mastermariner]

A bonus for Battle of Moscow series. Very interesting masquerade of Moscow.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmRDM7wkSZI

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

I hope that BoS is first fleshed out a bit, as with the release there is just the bare minimum of aircraft available,

that where involved in the battle of Stalingrad. Get the theatres right and then move on to the next.

Going from one bare bone theatre to the next, is something I can not imagine would be wanted?

I mean think of the med, with just those aircraft from BoS and maybe a P40 a Spitfire and maybe a Ju 52

would anyone be happy with that? I certainly would not.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Lord_Haw-Haw

[SOLIDKREATE]

I any Russian theatre of operations could just be sold to us as expansion packs don't you all think. There is no need for e 'new' game. You could even do that with the Mediterranean and do it as a map pack.

 

They would just have to model out the Spitfire Mk.Vb and Mk.Vc as fighters. They already have the models for Hurricanes and the other British Fighters. Then all they need is the P-40 Kittyhawk. Then all the Germans would need is the Bf-109-F-4/Trop and G-2/Trop. I may be missing some but I know they would have a good start.

 

IL-2:BoS could be the foundation game and everything else can just be an expansion. Maybe we can even get the Battle of Britain back only this time with the Westland Whirlwind. And North Africa would need the Bf-109-E-7/Trop.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

If theaters are chosen with right amount of "overlapping" the fleshing out can be done in that way too, imo. Let's say next theatre would have Bf-110 and Junkers 88, those could be utilized in Stalingrad also etc. With Moscow scenario there isn't that much of synenergy benefits though, there is about 1 year gap in timeframe and most of the types used at that time were not in use anymore in winter 42-43.

[Volkoff]

not Moskau i guess, the soviets were even more inferior in planeset that in Stalingrad.

I belive in a Kuban 43 scenario. Lot of western lend and lease planes, nice scenerie and the possibility to use the RoF's channel map watertechnologie.

+1 A scenario with the P-39 and the La-5fn would make for exciting and competitive gameplay. Stalingrad will be very challenging for the Russian side. Moscow would just increase the Russian side challenge. I think that a Moscow scenario might make flying the Russian side too frustrating and make sim flying the German side  too easy to be interestinng. An Eastern front scenario where you have a plane set with relative performance parity makes good sense.  MJ

Edited October 16, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[Feathered_IV]

I'd like a tidy little Malta expansion.  Though the likelihood of this is pretty remote.

[Uufflakke]

What's wrong with the Battle of Moscow theater?

 

Who doesn't want to bomb the Kremlin in his Ju-87 or flying between the towers in an I-16?

 

 

 

 

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

Honest answer, anyone ever notice that theatres like Poland, France, Norway, early part of Barbarosa are always avoided?

My bet lies with the assumtion that the german side is supposed to have the challenge? Those wishing for a late western front.

What you going to attack with? 1000 fighter attacks? As there are hardly any bombers, and everyone knows why the bombers

always are on the short end of the stick,  "because they take much more resources than a fighter. For every bomber you could have three

fighters" But I wouldn´t mind being proven wrong!

 

@ Uufflakke

Like your signature! Had that once in a forum and got banned because of it!

[Uufflakke]

@ Uufflakke

Like your signature! Had that once in a forum and got banned because of it!

 

But, don't you think Mark Twain is right?

 

 

Anyway, íf there will be a BoM theater I would like to see it with the November Rasputitsa i.e. the Sea of Mud.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

Mark Twain was absolutely right, and I guess some one in that certain forum noticed that too

and that is why I got the boot their because of it!

[Volkoff]

What's wrong with the Battle of Moscow theater?

 

Who doesn't want to bomb the Kremlin in his Ju-87 or flying between the towers in an I-16?

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, based solely on what you just wrote, I think it would a horrendous public relations move to allow for the simulation of the bombing and/ or destruction of the Kremlin, even though the Kremlin was in fact bombed during the actual battle. I would cross the Battle of Moscow right off the list of possible next theatres, if that was a feature of the Battle of Moscow add-on.    MJ

Edited October 18, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[Volkoff]

I actually think that a theatre where the Russians are on relative performance parity with the Germans makes better sense for the next theatre. I was thinking about the Korean Air War. If there was an add-on where the US was using F-84E Thunderjets to escort B-29's and F-80 Shooting Stars at fighters against the Mig-15bis and the developer then decided to make an add-on where the Americans have F-51 Mustangs  and F-82f Twin Mustangs to face down the Mig-15bis, I think the American side audience (I would want to simfly both the F-86 and Mig-15. I am a Russian American, so both planes are acceptable good guy planes to me, though it gets awkward when they are matched against one another.    ) would go....ah...ok....cool, but when do we get the F-86E Sabre and the F-86F Sabre? I am feeling that way about the Yak-1b, Yak-9, Lavochkin-5fn and the P-39.

 

 MJ

Edited October 18, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

Ugh Korean war with jets? No thanks. Either props or no go, there already plenty of sims for jets, does this series have to tread

the same path? Why why always mainstream? Is there such a fear that a theatre no one has done before would be soooo

unpopular that no one would buy. Only that what dozens of others have done before is doable?

[Volkoff]

Ugh Korean war with jets? No thanks. Either props or no go, there already plenty of sims for jets, does this series have to tread

the same path? Why why always mainstream? Is there such a fear that a theatre no one has done before would be soooo

unpopular that no one would buy. Only that what dozens of others have done before is doable?

 

I didn't mean that the 1CGS team should go with the Korean Air War. Frankly, sorting out how to properly present that Korean War is an interesting challenge, given that one wants to reach out to a consumer market including Chinese, Koreans, Russians, Americans, and other groups with a great diversity of divergent interpretations of the reasons, lessons, and outcomes of the conflict.  Not too mention, it is a touchy subject in present politics, given that there is a divided Korea looking for ways to come together, at present and a focus on past violence may be counter productive in the eyes of some.    MJ

Edited October 18, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[heinkill]

Any theatre where I can fly Beaufighter or Mosquito is a good one!

[Cybermat47]

at present and a focus on past violence may be counter productive in the eyes of some.    MJ

The Korean War never ended, and Kim-Jong Un doesn't seem to be aiming for peace. I doubt a video game would do much.

 

And there are loads of propeller aircraft from the Korean War. Yaks, IL2s, IL10s, Sea Furies, F-51s, and CAC P51s.

[Volkoff]

The Korean War never ended, and Kim-Jong Un doesn't seem to be aiming for peace. I doubt a video game would do much.

 

And there are loads of propeller aircraft from the Korean War. Yaks, IL2s, IL10s, Sea Furies, F-51s, and CAC P51s.

Yes, that is my point, Cybermat. The Korean conflict has yet to be resolved. As for the harm of the video game, it all depends on the presentation of the subject matter and the reception of that presentation.  MJ

[Volkoff]

And there are loads of propeller aircraft from the Korean War. Yaks, IL2s, IL10s, Sea Furies, F-51s, and CAC P51s.

 

Yes, but how much fun would it be to go from the F- 84 and F- 80, then to go to the F-51 and the F-82? The two add-ons would be clearly and increasingly slanted in favor of the Mig-15bis pilots.The sim would end up being a B-29 shoot down sim, unti the F-86e showed up and even then the Sabre pilots would not have a plane with clear opaity until the F-86f model. I think that the next IL2 BOS add-on should have a plane set where the Russians are on relative perormance party with the Germans.On a Battle of Moscow map, what would be the challenge for the German side? Not much... The only challenge I could think of would be not getting shot down for a year or more with a minimum number of hours logged and x number of kills, etc.  MJ

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

Yes, but how much fun would it be to go from the F- 84 and F- 80, then to go to the F-51 and the F-82? The two add-ons would be clearly and increasingly slanted in favor of the Mig-15bis pilots.The sim would end up being a B-29 shoot down sim, unti the F-86e showed up and even then the Sabre pilots would not have a plane with clear opaity until the F-86f model. I think that the next IL2 BOS add-on should have a plane set where the Russians are on relative perormance party with the Germans.On a Battle of Moscow map, what would be the challenge for the German side? Not much... The only challenge I could think of would be not getting shot down for a year or more with a minimum number of hours logged and x number of kills, etc.  MJ

Yeah that is the impression I have too, never let the german side have it too easy. Guess that is why we will never see a battle of France, invasion of Poland,

battle of Norway, or even a spanish civil war extension, as the allied side might face wee bit of a challenge. I sort of wonder what is the motivation to fly when

you are only facing weaker planes? One reason why I never touch fighters, as it is just so darn boring. But flying a bomber against all those would be all mighty

.50cal swingers, hitting the target and getting back is all the more satisfying, leaving the fighter jocks to wonder where the bombers are.

[Volkoff]

Yeah that is the impression I have too, never let the german side have it too easy. Guess that is why we will never see a battle of France, invasion of Poland,

battle of Norway, or even a spanish civil war extension, as the allied side might face wee bit of a challenge. I sort of wonder what is the motivation to fly when

you are only facing weaker planes? One reason why I never touch fighters, as it is just so darn boring. But flying a bomber against all those would be all mighty

.50cal swingers, hitting the target and getting back is all the more satisfying, leaving the fighter jocks to wonder where the bombers are.

 

In ROF, I regularly simfly with a Halberstadt D.II against SPADs and SE5a's. That is a wee bit of a challenge. BF-109 F-2's vs Mig-3's, I-15's, and I-16's is a turkey shoot. I appreciate that you like bombers. That is a real challenge. How would you like to face down a Mig-15bis with a B-29, where your only protection is a F-51 Mustang? I think you would get sick of the Mig pilots in a hurry. This is how BF-109 pilots would be viewed on a Battle of Moscow map. I used to get complaints because I used the SPAD XIII in ROF. The comparative performance advantage of an ROF SPAD XIII over an ROF DR1/ or Albatros is nothing compared to the comparative advantage of a BF-109- F2 over an I-15/ Mig-3.  MJ

Edited October 18, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[Volkoff]

Yeah that is the impression I have too, never let the german side have it too easy.

 

I think that is a good policy for any addon plane set match up, to never make things too easy for one side. In IL2 BOS, the German side will not have to face a single fighter clearly on parity with any of the German side fighters. I don't think the match up is unfair or anything, but I would not want to follow this addon with one that makes it really easy for the Germans. Hey, while I would like the Yak-3 and the LA-7, I think that it would be better to introduce the Yak-1b, LA5fn and the P-39. Relative performance parity would make for far more exciting match ups, than giving my side Trololo planes to terrorize the BF-109.  The Battle of Moscow would just turn the BF-109 into aTrololo plane. 

 

 MJ

Edited October 18, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

Well as I mentioned, it is bombers or transports all the way for me.

And even there for BoS we get the slower and more cumbersome He 111

instead of the Ju 88 which was also there. Or just think of the discussion

about the transport aircraft, what do the people wish for? The especially slow and

weak Ju 52, a Ju 290 is not even mentioned as it is a bit better armered and faster.

We had that also in the original IL2. The Ju 88 we had was the version with the

weakest engines and armerment. Instead we had at least two versions of the B 25

with the mods we had two versions of the B 24 and the B 17 at least four versions.

Good we had just about every version imaginable of the 109, 190 and Spitfire too.

And yes I am used to challenges, as I used to fly a lot on the "War birds of Prey" server

Zekes vs Wildcats, the Betty bomber against Bearcats, Corsairs and P 38s. Most times unless

it was a totally stupid map I reached my target and made it back, even though I flew a old

crappy bomber.

[Volkoff]

Well as I mentioned, it is bombers or transports all the way for me.

And even there for BoS we get the slower and more cumbersome He 111

instead of the Ju 88 which was also there. Or just think of the discussion

about the transport aircraft, what do the people wish for? The especially slow and

weak Ju 52, a Ju 290 is not even mentioned as it is a bit better armered and faster.

We had that also in the original IL2. The Ju 88 we had was the version with the

weakest engines and armerment. Instead we had at least two versions of the B 25

with the mods we had two versions of the B 24 and the B 17 at least four versions.

Good we had just about every version imaginable of the 109, 190 and Spitfire too.

And yes I am used to challenges, as I used to fly a lot on the "War birds of Prey" server

Zekes vs Wildcats, the Betty bomber against Bearcats, Corsairs and P 38s. Most times unless

it was a totally stupid map I reached my target and made it back, even though I flew a old

crappy bomber.

 

Yes, what you wrote certainly holds true for me, Lord Haw Haw. if not for the other sim pilots on the forum. I voted for the JU-52 specifically because I see it as a great big aerial piñata waiting to be wacked by my LaGG-3 gunship. The trick, for me, is in surviving the mission from take off to landing, what with all those nasty BF-109s and FW-190's trying to keep me from my candy.

 

 MJ

Edited October 18, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

Sure I can understand your point of view! I never would have added the 190 to BoS.

Should we get the Ju 52, I will fly it even though it is a weak flying target, but

I will try my best to make it as hard as possible to find my aircraft. I love the

challenge of navigating odd ball routes so that a lazy fighter jock looking for

a easy target is not going to be very happy with me. Given the choice I will take

the crap plane as it is so much more satisfying to achive your mission maybe even

knock down a enemy fighter and make it back to base, where the majority think

that is just a flying target.

[Matt]

I think with their planned approach, of releasing theatre packs instead of single planes only, the chances for a Ju52 are pretty good.

 

If you only release single planes (like in RoF), you, as a developer, are pretty much forced to go for popular (=profitable) planes to cover the costs, even if you would like to have a strict historical planeset.

 

But if they release a Battle of Moscow, Battle of Kursk, North Africa or whatever type of pack with multiple new planes for each side (which each don't need to be overly profitable on their own), i think the Ju52 stands a very good chance to take place in such a pack, pretty much regardless of the theatre (unlike many other planes).

 

I just hope they don't jump around too much in timeframe (say Battle of Britain or 1945 theatre next).

[Volkoff]

Sure I can understand your point of view! I never would have added the 190 to BoS.

Should we get the Ju 52, I will fly it even though it is a weak flying target, but

I will try my best to make it as hard as possible to find my aircraft. I love the

challenge of navigating odd ball routes so that a lazy fighter jock looking for

a easy target is not going to be very happy with me. Given the choice I will take

the crap plane as it is so much more satisfying to achive your mission maybe even

knock down a enemy fighter and make it back to base, where the majority think

that is just a flying target.

 

Well, the BF1-09's can escort the JU-52's. The LaGG-3 is a weak flying target against the BF-109's, unless F4F Wildcat like Thach Weave Section tactics work for the LaGG-3, when facing the BF-109. I imagine that LaGG-3's will ultimately require Yak-1 escorts. Your evasion tactics seem pretty sound. Don't pass on your tactics to other Ju-52 pilots, please. Ju-52's flying low level, on anticipated routes, with no escort cover, may be my only opportunity to crank up the Trololo song on the Battle of Stalingrad map. 

 

MJ

Edited October 18, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

Well I do not trust escorts, as I have found escorts to be more dangerous than enemy fighters.

Well I try and use the landscape to my advantage - yes I belong to those nuts that have also flown

4 engined aircraft under bridges. But I do not like to take predicable routes, as I do not like

to play target. Anyone after me has to be pretty good at hide & seek!

 

@Matt I hope that BoS is first fleshed out a bit before they jump to the next theatre package,

as the plane set for BoS at release  is the very bare minimum, that is to be expected.

 

I have my fingers crossed for at least one version of the Ju 88 and if we do by chance

get the Ju 52 that would be fine.

[Matt]

Hm, they kind of said something like they focus mostly on theatres packs with occasional single plane releases in between. And i don't see the Ju52 in there unfortunately.

 

Anyway, they wrote they got plenty of new people and the map makers should be kept busy. So i guess after they have the BoS map done, they will commence working on the next theatre already (atleast the map makers), which probably won't take as long as one would think, after all, BoS will basically take less than 18 months, which is very short for this genre. And of course the planes released in the new pack could be used in BoS aswell.

 

So anyway, to sum it up, i don't think a release of the Ju52 as a single plane is very likely, atleast not before the release of the next theatre and even then, it might just be released in a pack.

 

But maybe the devs will start a poll with all types of different planes and the Ju52 will get enough votes in comparison with the other planes and justify a single plane release. It's not that i would not pay for a Ju52, i would pay for pretty much every plane that saw use in the BoS in sufficient numbers (say atleast 50-100 planes or atleast huge number of sorties)

 

Let's wait and see.

[Trooper117]

We have to remember that unlike the old Maddox team that gave us plenty of aircraft, many being AI only, the 777 team are not going down that road.

It's already been stated that like RoF, BoS will only have player flyable aircraft. This unfortunately upsets the apple cart when it comes to new theatres.

My assumption is that they will probably go down the road of introducing a theatre where they can utilise current aircraft, and make other additions to the planeset, instead of giving us a brand new map with all brand new plane types. The fact that they won't introduce AI only planes will not even give us the 'targets' we need for a new theatre.

Again, it's just my assumption and thinking out loud, but snippets of info that comes out on the forums and blogs lead me to suspect that this will be the outcome