Yaw wobble

[ACG_Smokejumper]

Hey guys,

 

I am finding the yaw wobble to be unrealistic while flying.

 

I'm thinking it could be my yaw settings for my twist.

 

I have a Saitek X55. Anyone have any setting tips to smooth it out and get rid of that wobble?

 

 

Cheers!

[GP*]

It's a hotly debated topic. Not nearly to the extent of other things around here, but as far as FMs go, yaw oscillation is what raises the greatest number of questions / points of contention.

 

But to keep your thread on track, I'll offer this: I used a 50% (54% to be exact) yaw curve for a while. To set this, go into your control panel and and find the yaw key binding, and to the far right you'll see a xy-plane graph -- click on that and you can set the curve from there.

 

Once you get accustomed to it, I'd recommend toning it down. I fly with 34% now and that's primarily just to help deal with the Bf-109 -- I don't find a curve all that necessary for other aircraft. 34% is still pretty twitchy, but allows for controlled aiming while giving enough "snap" to facilitate rolling maneuevers. Just my opinion and what works for me -- YMMV.

 

I hope this helps.

[ACG_Smokejumper]

Always helpful. Thanks buddy.

 

 

You an airforce jet driver or something?

[VBF-12_Snake9]

X52. Played with this a long time. I use 60 percent for the pedals, 40 percent for pitch, 30 percent for roll. The outer limits of the stick doesn't bother me because I use auto trim which keeps me in the center of my joystick. This game is the most twichy of all the sims I've played.

[SCG_Neun]

I'll adjust mine as well..thanks

[sallee]

Thought this was a thread about PiL.

[GP*]

Always helpful. Thanks buddy.

 

 

You an airforce jet driver or something?

Check PM

[SCG_Neun]

Yaw, come back now...ya hear...

[VBF-12_Snake9]

I speak redneck. Hell some would call me one also. I'm fixin to tell you it's over yonder. NC good old boy, signing off.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I think it's defo wobbly compared to other aims, not sure if realistic or not as fighter planes are designed to be as unstable as possible but still controllable. I fly with no curves and although it took me a little time to learn how to control my inputs I have no problem now and would not consider curves. I.now find other sims to be desensitive

[Dakpilot]

I would like to have curves be adjustable for individual Aircraft, in real life the FW190 had a bellcrank system so the rudders were less sensitive around the centre point just like a control input curve. So flying the 190 with linear settings is actually non-historical and in a way goes against the A/C designers intended "FM'' responses

 

The ability to fine tune these (curves) settings  and also maybe noise filter under devices,  on a per Aircraft basis would allow fine tuning to get the best from each aircraft and give the best attempt at "historical feel" which is a very subjective thing anyway

 

Going back and flying in older sims with 'more stable fm' does seem to feel like stepping back a generation, remembering back to my early days of flight training, trying to keep a small aircraft within 5 degrees and 50FT during instrument flight seemed like a lesson in torture that would never be achieved, and left many a grown man a sweaty depressed mess doubting their abilities, however after training and practice those seemingly unattainable goals were met, and became second nature doing a blind NDB letdown in poor conditions

 

The aircraft in BoS probably are a bit sensitive thoughout all control inputs especially yaw when left at stock settings, and there maybe any number of other smaller tech issues with the FM, but the need to practice and be gentle with the controls and develop a 'feel' for the aircraft seems a lot more believable than the ability to jump straight in  and master things in a couple of short test flights, but again this is all just subjective rambling  when it come to that elusive "feel of flight''

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Solmyr]

An important aspect to my mind : when aiming, looking for a shooting window, we very often allow a dirty flight for just 1 second (more or less), and that's resulting in making the plane bouncing, because in addition we want to try another time immediately after before to solve it, in order to finally get that guy down, and things easily can go worse and worse...

Coupled to this point, we have to not forget our virtual pilot skills (defensive ones for instance) are obviously way better than they were IRL for most of pilots, because of this simple reason that when we die, we can say :"why the hell did i made that this way, I'd have better to do this way", and we refly.

IRL, there were a lot more of attacks in just one surprising pass, and that's all. Reading the pilots memories shows us that our hell dogfights were rather rare actually.

I would like to have curves be adjustable for individual Aircraft

 

+ 1 !!

[SCG_Neun]

I speak redneck. Hell some would call me one also. I'm fixin to tell you it's over yonder. NC good old boy, signing off.

I've been told...by someone on this forum that "English" must not be my native language...so I'm right there with you Snake9....

[Danziger]

I am from Florida and I can say with certainty that English is not my first language. I lived in England for almost a year and let me tell you English can be very difficult to understand sometimes. My wife's first language is Polish and she had to translate what the English people were saying for me most of the time lol.

Edited December 22, 2014 by possumkiller

[Zak]

IIRC there's smth about yaw wobble in today's update

[SharpeXB]

a lesson in torture that would never be achieved, and left many a grown man a sweaty depressed mess doubting their abilities, however after training and practice those seemingly unattainable goals were met, and became second nature

This describes edacty how I felt trying to master aerial refueling in DCS: A-10C :-D

And the A-10 is a rather stable easy to fly plane compared to the WWII birds.

[=AVG=Zombie]

IIRC there's smth about yaw wobble in today's update

Word, hope it works...

[39bn_pavig]

If today's update and your tuning doesn't cure your yaw wobble, have a close look at feedback from your x55 stick. Mine had a glitch in the yaw pot, which would cause it to register full left for a tick at a certain point in its travel when twisting slowly. I found that this spurious glitch was causing all sorts of problems for my plane, but I didn't bother replacing the X55 as I use pedals. Eventually when the stick wore in the glitch also went away. Perhaps a grain of dirt in the pot? Who knows. What I do know is that despite being an awesome hotas the X55 has some quality control problems, and the twist axis seems to be one that many people complain about.

[ACG_Smokejumper]

IIRC there's smth about yaw wobble in today's update

 

 

 

Yay!!!

 

Enjoying your game buddy.

[Pupo]

SmokeJumper clearly has some powers.

 

he complains about something... the next day its fixed....

 

 

Could you please ask for the I16 next?

[GP*]

SmokeJumper clearly has some powers.

 

he complains about something... the next day its fixed....

 

 

Could you please ask for the I16 next?

I will be directing all my thoughts and wishes about this game through him now.

[CaK_Rumcajs]

I personally find the yaw instability reduction significant. It really feels one is flying a different airplane when in an Bf 109. The effect can also be felt in the Stuka and FW. Stuka has lost its directional nervousnes and the FW behaves well when AOA increases rapidly. The Bf 109 always behaved strangely when flying with stab adjusted to anything else but full nose down. The Bf 109 also had a tendency to lose directional stability when approaching high AOA. This tendency has been corrected and it seems that the F4 will have no real opponent in the sky. So far so good. I believe 777 will fix even the fuzzy stab trim behaviour jcomm mentioned. A great x-mass update anyways. Thanks.

[303_Kwiatek]

Also dont feel any noticable change.

[CaK_Rumcajs]

Guys, read the change description. They say

 

Additional tuning was done to stability and controllability of planes in the yaw axis so wobbling on gliding angle was significantly reduced

So you need to search for a change in directional stability when flying on high AOA. What I observe is an improvement in yaw stability when reaching critical AOA. Beside that I feel the overall directional stability is better across all fighters. The change doesn't have to be exactly game breaking but it is there.

[CorsairHundo]

Are you saying that you can't adjust and save the controls per plane? So what you adjust for your stick is it for all planes ?

 

 

 

 

I would like to have curves be adjustable for individual Aircraft, in real life the FW190 had a bellcrank system so the rudders were less sensitive around the centre point just like a control input curve. So flying the 190 with linear settings is actually non-historical and in a way goes against the A/C designers intended "FM'' responses

 

The ability to fine tune these (curves) settings  and also maybe noise filter under devices,  on a per Aircraft basis would allow fine tuning to get the best from each aircraft and give the best attempt at "historical feel" which is a very subjective thing anyway

 

Going back and flying in older sims with 'more stable fm' does seem to feel like stepping back a generation, remembering back to my early days of flight training, trying to keep a small aircraft within 5 degrees and 50FT during instrument flight seemed like a lesson in torture that would never be achieved, and left many a grown man a sweaty depressed mess doubting their abilities, however after training and practice those seemingly unattainable goals were met, and became second nature doing a blind NDB letdown in poor conditions

 

The aircraft in BoS probably are a bit sensitive thoughout all control inputs especially yaw when left at stock settings, and there maybe any number of other smaller tech issues with the FM, but the need to practice and be gentle with the controls and develop a 'feel' for the aircraft seems a lot more believable than the ability to jump straight in  and master things in a couple of short test flights, but again this is all just subjective rambling  when it come to that elusive "feel of flight''

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Matt]

You can't use different sensitivity settings for each planetype. That does work fine in RoF, so i'm a bit surprised that they cut this features for BoS, where it would even make more sense.

 

But of course if you use a Warthog for instance, you can just create different profiles for each plane with the Target software. Maybe there is even a free 3rd party tool avaliable, which allows this for other flight gear.

[ST_ami7b5]

Also dont feel any noticable change.

Neither do I...

[CorsairHundo]

What would the reason be for this, has it been explained by the devs? Was it a time issue and wanted to get this out sooner than later?

I experienced this at Iracing where we had something 10 yrs ago and it was missing in the new sim. Frustrating as no one wants to go backwards. Also I don't have a Warthog at this time but hopefully in the near future.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

You can't use different sensitivity settings for each planetype. That does work fine in RoF, so i'm a bit surprised that they cut this features for BoS, where it would even make more sense.

 

But of course if you use a Warthog for instance, you can just create different profiles for each plane with the Target software. Maybe there is even a free 3rd party tool avaliable, which allows this for other flight gear.

[LLv32_kankkis]

Thanks for fixing that, now i can fly 109 and strafing. Very good now.

[ACG_Smokejumper]

SmokeJumper clearly has some powers.

 

he complains about something... the next day its fixed....

 

 

Could you please ask for the I16 next?

 

 

Maybe it's the power of my birthday and Christmas together. Today is my birthday and with the two so close together just maybe that was it. Next year we'll get a Western Theatre map!

Well, actually, I really must try it again latter today, but so far the update didn't make any difference in the wobbling / instability area for me :-(

 

The Fw190 is the same, even entering an inverted flat spin after a pitch down from cruise :-/

 

Flying the G2 revealled the same wobbling in pitch and yaw... :-/

 

I even changed the spring in my X55 to the red ( lowest spring ) one. My Saitek rudder is OK and that's what I use ( not the twist ).

 

This instability is present in all aircraft, but particularly evident on those with stabilator. 

 

Also, on the G2 and F4, when you start a session and then touch the stab trim, they still jump all of a sudden to the new setting, causing a severe pitch oscillation.

 

 

Is your X55 loose from being broken in?

 

Mine now has a slight sloppy zone in the middle and I had to change my deadzone settings.

 

 

Also, you may be too rough on the German a/c. I have not been having 109 issues and the 190 spun when I abused her.

[ST_ami7b5]

Happy birthday, Smoke!

[GP*]

I have found that the update greatly increases the plausiblity of the FMs in this game. I think it is an excellent update.

 

I still believe that pitch oscillations are a bit extreme, and that damping due to aerodynamic forces isn't perfect (it seems pretty good for high angles of attack, but the "bounce" you get when at low to moderate angles of attack still appears to be slightly overdone).

 

However, this update has addressed my biggest concern. As always, this game is a work in progress, and I look forward to seeing what continued fine-tuning of the FMs will bring .

 

Thank you for listening to us, devs, and taking another look at the yaw axis!

Nope, I guess it is just Right, but I think I finally managed to get an "ideal" configuration to "fly" il-2 BoS:

 

1) Picked the second less strong spring ( yellow ) that comes with the X55, and made it smaller than the red one ( the shortest before this "cirurgy" ). The forces on the stick are now about the minimum possible...

 

2) Defined 48% on the pitch and yaw curves 

 

I can now enter combat and maneuver the Bf109 G2 and F4, and also de Yak-1, very acceptably :-)

 

Thanks for your persistence and suggestions SMOKE! 

 

Interesting, I find high stick forces to be best for sims in general, particularly this one. I wish my Warthog was about 10% stronger.

 

But I'm glad that works for you now!

[ACG_Smokejumper]

Nope, I guess it is just Right, but I think I finally managed to get an "ideal" configuration to "fly" il-2 BoS:

 

1) Picked the second less strong spring ( yellow ) that comes with the X55, and made it smaller than the red one ( the shortest before this "cirurgy" ). The forces on the stick are now about the minimum possible...

 

2) Defined 48% on the pitch and yaw curves 

 

I can now enter combat and maneuver the Bf109 G2 and F4, and also de Yak-1, very acceptably :-)

 

Thanks for your persistence and suggestions SMOKE! 

 

 

 

Oh good dude I'm glad. My buddy used to spin all the time when we where learning to fly together in Warthunder SIM mode. He was too heavy handed as well. Now he's sweet and can fly them all.

 

I like the heaviest spring myself in the X-55. I'm a 6ft 250lbs scaffolder though. I wish it came with a heavier spring still.

I have found that the update greatly increases the plausiblity of the FMs in this game. I think it is an excellent update.

 

I still believe that pitch oscillations are a bit extreme, and that damping due to aerodynamic forces isn't perfect (it seems pretty good for high angles of attack, but the "bounce" you get when at low to moderate angles of attack still appears to be slightly overdone).

 

However, this update has addressed my biggest concern. As always, this game is a work in progress, and I look forward to seeing what continued fine-tuning of the FMs will bring .

 

Thank you for listening to us, devs, and taking another look at the yaw axis!

 

Interesting, I find high stick forces to be best for sims in general, particularly this one. I wish my Warthog was about 10% stronger.

 

But I'm glad that works for you now!

 

 

 

I'm with you.

 

How is that Hotas Warthog?

 

After my X55 packs it in I might get that one if I feel it's worth it. I'm super happy with my current one though. Night and day to my old Logitech 3D Pro!

 

 

 

 

 

ST_ami7b5   Thanks for the bday wishes!!! It was a good one with the wife.

[Bearcat]

Happy Birthday SJ..!

 

I am seriously thinking of getting an X-55 to mod. The FFB in BoS is great. The best I have seen in a long time.

[ST_ami7b5]

...

 

ST_ami7b5   Thanks for the bday wishes!!! It was a good one with the wife.

 

 

Glad to hear, LOL

[GP*]

 

Oh good dude I'm glad. My buddy used to spin all the time when we where learning to fly together in Warthunder SIM mode. He was too heavy handed as well. Now he's sweet and can fly them all.

 

I like the heaviest spring myself in the X-55. I'm a 6ft 250lbs scaffolder though. I wish it came with a heavier spring still.

 

 

 

 

I'm with you.

 

How is that Hotas Warthog?

 

After my X55 packs it in I might get that one if I feel it's worth it. I'm super happy with my current one though. Night and day to my old Logitech 3D Pro!

 

 

 

 

ST_ami7b5 Thanks for the bday wishes!!! It was a good one with the wife.

Well happy birthday then!

 

I love the Warthog, without a doubt the best stick I've owned. It's very difficult to justify the 450 I spent on it, though. Not because it falls short in any area...just because that's a lot of money! But my gaming rig cost almost 3x as much to build...so yeah .

[ACG_Smokejumper]

X55 to mod? You mean you'll mess with it to make it better?

 

What is FFB? Don't know that one yet.

 

 

Thanks for the bday wishes, and not letting me get too carried away.  

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Im an Aero Engineer "Hence the name" and I dont find anything unexceptable about the yaw response at all speeds iv cared to bother, In fact i feel they may be damped too much.............

 

I think a lot of this is previous game play expectation

 

BOS is more dynamics and even if not correct thats what I like, its different, a challenge

 

but I dont have good data on these planes to calculate the real thing, I can do that for a lot of modern planes but ww2 data is too conflicting depending on source. I guess if I take the average its more than ok 

 

also may heavily depend on ur input devices and self contol, i use old rudder pedals and its fine, i lock in an input KEEP it there, not yo yo and adjust a lil if needed

 

if someone thinks a plane should have a certain responce pm me ur data on that plane and i have many programs to simulate them in a PRO manner, problem is u wont have the full data required, then we need asumptions.........................go figure

 

sure devs have exact same problem

Edited December 25, 2014 by AeroAce

[Jason_Bourne]

My input,

 

Was playing with a cheap flightstick until yesterday, when i got a msff2. Until yesterday, including the patch, the 109 was a a twitch and a half. With the new stick the same is now butter smooth. 

Perhaps this sim is sensitive as to what stick it likes. Perhaps it is an idea that the people that have this problem post what kind of stick they use ?

 

Also, in external view my hat switch works as a mouse. in internal view it is dead even when i assign it in the game. Ideas ?

 

Merry Christmas !

[CaK_Rumcajs]

Anyway,

 

whatever changed on the last 2 ( flash... ) updates turned the feel to a much better one, at least for me.

 

I can now perfectly use any of the Axis or the Yak-1 in dogfights, pulling to the limits, and still not entering the usual wobble that we had before!!!

 

For me this was about the Best Christmas gift in terms of flight simulation ;-)

I'm glad to hear it finally works for you. When the 1.008 came out I was so amazed and didn't understand some pople were not getting the feel of impovement in this department. Maybe it needed another hotfix to make it work for all.