It's in the details...

[1./ZG1_ElHadji]

I'm beginning to like IL-2 BoS more now when I'm done grinding the planes I want to fly. But some details annoy me and I can't understand why the devs have decided to do things the way they have. Take the campaign as an example. Fine, it is basically a random mission generator. I can live with that. But what is the point in breaking the tiny bit of WW2 immersion there is with stupid things?

 

Some examples:

 

Briefing says I'm up against cargo planes and I find He-111's when I arrive at the scene. Why not write 'bombers' in the briefing since everyone knows there aren't any cargo planes in BoS? There is even a medal for destroying the German Ju-52 air bridge?!?

 

I get medals for defeating tank regiments without having seen a single tank (or infantry unit for that matter).

 

This just destroys the immersion completely and it would have been better to leave it out in my opinion. RoF gets the immersion right with simple things. Why not do the same here?

[LukeFF]

Those 111s were used as cargo planes.

[Dakpilot]

At least 165 HE-111's were lost at Stalingrad doing cargo runs during the airlift period

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[CIA_Yankee_]

As was said, the He111s WERE used as cargo planes during the skybridge phase. Ju52s, He111s, apparently even Kondors... basically anything that could lift cargo was used to do so.

 

As for the medals, they just represent participation in a given phase of the campaign. The campaign itself is NOT meant to represent you flying a single pilot/character through the Battle of Stalingrad, but is obviously a massive abstraction.

 

I mean, yes, it breaks the immersion if you're trying to pretend you're a single pilot... but it doesn't break their design.

 

Personally I've been struggling a bit with this, but then I embraced the opportunities this gives me: I jump to other airplane types (and sometimes airfields) as I feel like, even though it's not realistic, but it allows me to enjoy all the different aircraft (and unlocks). So far I've done the Lagg-3, the Yak-1, and the Il-2. Once I finish the current phase I'll probably try my hand at the Pe-2.

 

And then switch to the axis side for a bit... at least learning the 109 enough to fly Veteran's Chir Front campaign.

 

But if you want the full immersive campaign like EAW or RoF's career mode, you'll have to wait for a mod I'm afraid (something like the PWCG). I know I look forward to that.

[Zettman]

 

I get medals for defeating tank regiments without having seen a single tank (or infantry unit for that matter).

 

S!

 

I always thought many of these  special medals (honoring a battle) were awarded to squadrons or wings. So even a pilot who just happened to be in one of these and barley saw action could get one of them. They are not comparable to the 'Iron Cross' or 'Hero of the Soviet Union' which were given to individuals.

 

Zettman

[Jaeger55]

Come on, really? So the programmers are as limited as the Luftwaffe? Just put the darn transports in. (Ju52)

[CIA_Yankee_]

Come on, really? So the programmers are as limited as the Luftwaffe? Just put the darn transports in. (Ju52)

 

I'm afraid the "programmers" ran out of Magical Fairy Dust, and so unfortunately have to actually create a model and implement it instead of dusting then tapping their source code repository while chanting the necessary incantations.

 

The upshot is we'll have to make do with He111s as transport planes until the Ju52 are implemented the hard way. At least it's entirely historically accurate.

[Dakpilot]

JU-52 on the way

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?p=206660

 

Cheers dakpilot

[Bearcat]

 

 

 

Come on, really? So the programmers are as limited as the Luftwaffe? Just put the darn transports in. (Ju52)

 

I'm afraid the "programmers" ran out of Magical Fairy Dust, and so unfortunately have to actually create a model and implement it instead of dusting then tapping their source code repository while chanting the necessary incantations.

 

The upshot is we'll have to make do with He111s as transport planes until the Ju52 are implemented the hard way. At least it's entirely historically accurate.

 

Not only that ... Ju-52s are on the way... I think that  far too often in all this one thing that seems to get lost in the mix is the fact that this sim is not yet finished.. and it has only been released for two months... As much as there are things in BoS in  it's current state that frustrate the h@ll out of me.. there is a lot to like and the team is small, there are 24 hours in a day... and the future looks bright IMO.

LoL.. hey Dak.. look at the time stamp on our posts.. Yikes.. when I edited my post it changed the time stamp.. but we were posting the same thing at the same time...

[Dakpilot]

LoL yep almost identical timing and wording....scary

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Lusekofte]

 

Intercept these He 111 cargo planes with il-2, as bomber gunners dont shoot at Sturmovik...  

 

Kind of takes the fun out of it, does it not? 

                          ===========================================================

I have no problem with the choices made on witch plane in the game. It is a good priority if you onle could have this amount.

HE 111 was used in all types of operations and even had a version for paratroopers. 

[Leaf]

Come on, really? So the programmers are as limited as the Luftwaffe? Just put the darn transports in. (Ju52)

 

They've only got one programmer.

[1./ZG1_ElHadji]

S!

 

I always thought many of these  special medals (honoring a battle) were awarded to squadrons or wings. So even a pilot who just happened to be in one of these and barley saw action could get one of them. They are not comparable to the 'Iron Cross' or 'Hero of the Soviet Union' which were given to individuals.

 

Zettman

True! But shouldn't there at least be some evidence of those battles actually taking place? I haven't seen a single tank. And the air bridge: wasn't that flights flewn in and out of the kessel? Why don't I see any of these famous He-111's cargo planes taking off/landing in the German held territory in and around Stalingrad? They always come roaming in bomber formations escorted by 109's. Not once have I seen them land to evacuate troops or bring supplies in. Where are the ground campaigns I'm getting awards for?

 

I'm sorry if I come across as grumpy but the historical accuracy is sub-par which is a shame in this otherwise great flight sim.

this sim is not yet finished.. and it has only been released for two months

Gone are the days when released titles actually was finished...  

[heinkill]

 

I'm sorry if I come across as grumpy 

 Apology accepted

[1./ZG1_ElHadji]

I was sorry enough to upgrade to Gold Founder.

[CIA_Yankee_]

The dynamically generated missions generally only model things that would fall within the scope of your mission, which does involve adding life to the theatre, but only within the scope of your mission.

 

This means that if you fly off course by a significant amount, you won't encounter anything, and if you try to poke at the seams you'll start breaking the background activity.

 

So for example, if you follow your flight plan, your mission, you will see things that add realism and life to the environment (ground units fighting each other, other flights engaging in various activities, and so on)... but if you decide to follow a specific flight and see if they continue doing things believably, you'll be disappointed. This includes following a transport bomber and seeing if it lands at Pitomnik, is filled with supplies, and takes off again. Most likely all it will do is land and disappear.

 

But of course, realistically you're meant to locate the transport and shoot it down. And if you do that, the mission will be quite believable.

 

I've had some scary moments so far with surprises from missions, and it was quite enjoyable. Just don't poke at the seams too much, you'll only ruin your imnmersion.

[SKG51_robtek]

True! But shouldn't there at least be some evidence of those battles actually taking place? I haven't seen a single tank. And the air bridge: wasn't that flights flewn in and out of the kessel? Why don't I see any of these famous He-111's cargo planes taking off/landing in the German held territory in and around Stalingrad? They always come roaming in bomber formations escorted by 109's. Not once have I seen them land to evacuate troops or bring supplies in. Where are the ground campaigns I'm getting awards for?

 

I'm sorry if I come across as grumpy but the historical accuracy is sub-par which is a shame in this otherwise great flight sim.

Gone are the days when released titles actually was finished...

It seems that the DN engine isn't able to do that, otherwise the devs would have given us a full world,

They want to sell this game, so they present the best it can do!

They are working quite a few years with it, so there should be no problems.

Edited December 18, 2014 by I./ZG15_robtek

[Bearcat]

It seems that the DN engine isn't able to do that, otherwise the devs would have given us a full world,

They want to sell this game, so they present the best it can do!

They are working quite a few years with it, so there should be no problems.

 

Are you sure about that? I do not think that is correct.

[SKG51_robtek]

If one wants to sell something he will go some lengths to make is as pretty as possible.

Look at the Trailer, it really looks marvelous.

Then look at the game, planes pretty as can be, landscape, bleak winter, but also pretty,

the other models also very nice.

Each part is very pretty, but they are so sparely present.

A tank attack, i.e., should consist of at least 24 to 50 tanks, 10 to 12 ground pounders, 10 to 12 planes fighter cover and at least as much attackers.

That was done in the alleged predecessor and it gave real immersion, to be part of a battle.

As a producer I would demand that my product is presented as good as possible to sell many copies.

Of course I am sure about my opinion, i produced it and I present it as convincing as I can :D :D :D

[Potenz]

That was done in the alleged predecessor and it gave real immersion, to be part of a battle.

 

The career part of 1946 was quite lifeless i never ever seen a mission with that description...

 

if are talking about user made mission or 3rd party campaign generators that's a totally different

story, as we yet don't have those for BoS.

[Bearcat]

As I said... I believe that is more due to mission design than engine limitation. I think they just wanted to get the campaign to us.. It may not be as full as some feel it should be but I don't think it is lifeless and the more I delve into BoS the more I appreciate it for it's strengths. It's flaws are very well known by now and have been diagnosed and dissected across multiple venues in great depth. I am in no position to second guess the devs on this, so I will not. They delivered a very stable, usable, if not yet fully usable product to me in under two years pretty much on schedule, they delivered on the early access as they said they would, and in many ways BoS is the sim they promised. Initially when folks saw that video.. with the troops running around.. and that was not in the sim.. it was slammed... now we have troops running around... This sim is a work in progress and while there are as I said things in it that do not appeal to me and many others.. there is still much to like about it, as the OP stated in his opening post.....

[taleks]

A tank attack, i.e., should consist of at least 24 to 50 tanks, 10 to 12 ground pounders, 10 to 12 planes fighter cover and at least as much attackers.

Just check this link (in Russian) to get more updated information on what DN can handle in current state.

Mission briefing (describes logics and events in it) is at 72AG forum (in Russian).

 

There are some limitations of DN, of course, any engine have it, but it's limit is not so low as it is said in this topic.

[PB0_Foxy]

I can confirm.

I'm a mission maker for the french server.

In our current test mission I made an offensive with at least 40 tanks assaulting a town.

 

We had no problem in-game and Il2 pilots were able to attack tanks.

We were 35 online at this moment

[Juri_JS]

Just check this link (in Russian) to get more updated information on what DN can handle in current state.

Mission briefing (describes logics and events in it) is at 72AG forum (in Russian).

 

There are some limitations of DN, of course, any engine have it, but it's limit is not so low as it is said in this topic.

 

I don't have the BoS mission builder yet, but from my own tests I did in the past in the RoF mission builder I can say that the engine has few problems to handle large numbers of ground objects. The performance issues I experienced were caused by the number of AI planes. My PC only has the BoS minimum requirements and I get noticeable performances issues when more than 18 AI planes are part of a mission.

 

I would like to know which number of AI planes more up to date PCs can handle. This would be a useful information, because I plan to build single player missions for BoS in the future.

[Dakpilot]

Using RoF qmb 30 aircraft, average weather and all ground units on I get no issues, sometimes a slowdown to 40 ish FPS when all A/C are in view but there is no "actual" slowdown or stutter at max settings (excluding SS) and the feeling of butter smooth 60fps is experienced. 

 

In Bos max A/C qmb over Stalingrad large map weather average,very similar but have experienced occasional 'micro stutter' (usually close to ground with high tree count) although FPS still high, however have been messing with a lot of GRX  control panel setting etc., hoping that some more optimisation is possible in this department.

 

specs in sig.

 

Cheers Dakpiot

[Juri_JS]

Dakpilot, I wonder what your experience is when playing Veteran66's Chir Front missions. I think the number of AI planes in most missions is between 20-30. Some people have reported a noticeable slowdown effect when the enemy planes appear. Does this also happen on your system?

[Dakpilot]

Have them, but not had time to fully use them yet, will post results when have more experience, busy season ATMO

 

Cheers Dakpilot