Fly by wire mouse/KB controls like Warthunder?

[Flanker15]

Could BoS have these?  I've been playing WT and have merveled at their FBW mouse controls that make flying without a joystick a fun and painless experience.  For those who haven't tried, it works by puttin the plane under sort of harnessed AI control and having a mouse control cursor on the screen.  You can move the cursor where-ever you want and the plane ai will try to bring the nose to the centre of it.  The plane gets no special abilites and must use realistic control surfaces to get to point so most of the time it will always be playing catch up to your cursor (no point and shoot!).  You can do most manuevers with this control setup (manuevers the require you to do something unintuitive like stall a wing won't work).

It makes for a sort of bridge between arcade flying and simulator (simulation planes with arcade controls!) and is really nice for people who haven't got their stick setup or just don't feel like using it.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

thats not true it use's mouse AIM. Which you don't miss, it does not take for consideration for turbulence, stick jerking and recoil. that's arcadie!

[BeastyBaiter]

Mouse aim has absolutely no place in any sort of serious flight sim. If I had it my way, not even WT would have it. That's something best left to WoWP and BF3 where they make no attempt or claim at any sort of realism. BoS is made for those who love aviation and flying. It is not intended for the arcade shooter crowd.

Edited September 18, 2013 by =LD=King_Hrothgar

[Flanker15]

thats not true it use's mouse AIM. Which you don't miss, it does not take for consideration for turbulence, stick jerking and recoil. that's arcadie!

But It does have recoil and turbulance?

It's not true mouse aim, your bullets go where your guns are pointing not where your cursor is pointing the aim point of the guns tries to get to the cursor they aren't fixed to it.

Try it out some time, put it on full real aswell if you want all the turbulance and stuff too you'll see that it's a far stretch more sim than something like AceCombat.

Also it'd be for people who don't have a joystick available or aren't comfortable with using one yet.

[gavagai]

That feature has no place in a flight sim.

 

Mouse aim has absolutely no place in any sort of serious flight sim.

 

This.

[=LD=Hethwill]

It is all about re-enactment of  piloting the plane in combat, not moving an aim.

 

But, I guess different server hosts might open up a third POV camera with lower realism settings, but in regards of controls is you can use your mouse, same as RoF, but you won't move an abstract point in front of your plane nose as in WT. Your control point is glued on the pilot seat, so is not really a fly by wire as you imagine, more like a always zoomed in radio control plane.

Edited September 18, 2013 by =LD=Hethwill

[Bearcat]

[TheBlackPenguin]

The planes nose follows where ever your mouse reticle aims at (and likewise guns). I tried WT and even setup my joystick and controls, but for some reason joysticks don't seem to work well with WT (at least in my experience with FRB). Its an arcade game and if people want to step up into the higher fidelity simulation then with it goes some new hardware, most notably a joystick.

[tempered]

I think my very first flight sim was either knights of the sky or F117 stealth fighter on the commodore pc.  Either way, the simulation of flight was so bad, it might as well have been just pointing the mouse (well, there was no mouse for the commodore but you get the point).   I think these arcade style flight games are a necessary step to get less hardcore gamers into the hobby. 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I had that on the C64 as well, also had a joystick

[Original_Uwe]

Good god no.

[Crow]

There's no need for mouse controls in IL-2: BoS. It just complicates things from a development standpoint and removes the skill and engagement of the flight sim genre.

 

This sim is not War Thunder and it should not be. There is no reason for BoS to try and compete in that market. Hopefully some people who like War Thunder will be inspired to try out a true flight sim, but 1CGS does not need to be adding elements into the game just to attract those people. That kind of development philosophy leads to feature creep and games that lack direction.

 

Those people who are interested in getting into flight sims will have plenty of difficulty options to enable to allow them to have a very easy experience starting out of the gate. If RoF is any indication, a new pilot can practically have an arcade experience with just a hint of flight sim thrown in already. Those that aren't interested can continue playing War Thunder.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Crow

[Flanker15]

It is all about re-enactment of  piloting the plane in combat, not moving an aim.

 

But, I guess different server hosts might open up a third POV camera with lower realism settings, but in regards of controls is you can use your mouse, same as RoF, but you won't move an abstract point in front of your plane nose as in WT. Your control point is glued on the pilot seat, so is not really a fly by wire as you imagine, more like a always zoomed in radio control plane.

 

So does ROF have mouse virtual joystick already?  That's good enough too, how does it handle rudder inputs? That's the prob I had with it in WT since you can only give analoge inputs to one or the other.

[ST_ami7b5]

Mouse aim has absolutely no place in any sort of serious flight sim. If I had it my way, not even WT would have it. That's something best left to WoWP and BF3 where they make no attempt or claim at any sort of realism. BoS is made for those who love aviation and flying. It is not intended for the arcade shooter crowd.

 

This!

[Picchio]

It's just not in BoS' nature.

 

Also, the way I see it, there would be zero point in not to "feel like using" a hotas setup when you have it...

[O_catarM]

The planes nose follows where ever your mouse reticle aims at (and likewise guns). I tried WT and even setup my joystick and controls, but for some reason joysticks don't seem to work well with WT (at least in my experience with FRB). Its an arcade game and if people want to step up into the higher fidelity simulation then with it goes some new hardware, most notably a joystick.

100% agree

[Mac_Messer]

Could BoS have these?  I've been playing WT and have merveled at their FBW mouse controls that make flying without a joystick a fun and painless experience.  For those who haven't tried, it works by puttin the plane under sort of harnessed AI control and having a mouse control cursor on the screen.  You can move the cursor where-ever you want and the plane ai will try to bring the nose to the centre of it.  The plane gets no special abilites and must use realistic control surfaces to get to point so most of the time it will always be playing catch up to your cursor (no point and shoot!).  You can do most manuevers with this control setup (manuevers the require you to do something unintuitive like stall a wing won't work).

It makes for a sort of bridge between arcade flying and simulator (simulation planes with arcade controls!) and is really nice for people who haven't got their stick setup or just don't feel like using it.

I agree that implementing it into BoS could lure some arcade players aboard, maybe even many of them. Actually a big part of WT goers fly like this. For an option I think it would be smart but from what 1CGS representatives say, there is not time for this feature right now.

Although I think that if you set BoS for full arcade, you can even fly a plane with a thumbstick. Lots of ppl have gamepads.

[Wolger]

War Thunder is not bad, the Full Real Battles plus Full Aircraft Control mode works like any flight sim, only cockpit view is avalaible (but still not fully 3D and interactive like DCS:P-51D) , realistic flight models for different aircrafts, you can't turn well in a boom and zoom fighters like P-51 and it's prone to flat spin. Overall controls is greatly simplified, you only need to know how to control the flaps, aileron/rudder/elevator trims and engine control set to auto if you want convenience. It's a perfect stepping stone towards a full blown flight sim. What I like most is we can fly so many types of planes although some people said their FMs are not realistic enough.

 

Mouse aim is also disabled in War Thunder's FRB mode except for turret control for heavy fighters and bombers. Despite what people said, a headtracking device is much needed for situation awareness and it works better than using hat switch on your joystick. Till now I refuse to play using mouse/kb in Arcade Battles mode as playing a flight sim with a mouse just feels so wrong.

 

War Thunder's developer is smart, the know how to cater to 2 types of gamer demographics, casuals for the Arcade Battle modes, sim heads for FRB. They're talking the F2P path so really need the mass to sustain the game. Gotta admit a pure flight sim will have super tiny player base so depends on the path they take, BoS should listen more to the core players who are willing to spend to get the immersive experience. If not because of Il2's reputation and its core fans, this BoS would not be realized.

[Mac_Messer]

War Thunder's developer is smart, the know how to cater to 2 types of gamer demographics, casuals for the Arcade Battle modes, sim heads for FRB. They're talking the F2P path so really need the mass to sustain the game. Gotta admit a pure flight sim will have super tiny player base so depends on the path they take, BoS should listen more to the core players who are willing to spend to get the immersive experience. If not because of Il2's reputation and its core fans, this BoS would not be realized.

You can say that again. The sad part is that people who fly FRB mode really think that this is a full blown sim and they promote it as THE sim. It could be that when BoS gets released, some of the FRB fliers will want to try something different and that in sim flying they`re pure beginners.

[leitmotiv]

give the people more options, if some one wonts to fly with mouse make that posible. Work spend to do this will be reworded by more casual buyers. Just leve it as option so server host can select it so no harm done to people who laugh at this option of flying.

 

In IL2 you had funforall servers with almos all options turned off total arcade and server usealy has the most people on HL

 

i agre with Mac_Messer on WT FRB its no way simulation i played it and i played loot of other simulation games to see the differance

Edited September 18, 2013 by Yaklover

[=69.GIAP=RADKO]

I can't see how a mouse would work in BOS. The flight model is hugely more complicated in BOS compared to War Thunder and as a result it demands multiple inputs to achieve even some of the most basic manoeuvres. A mouse couldn't cope with the amount of inputs required to even take off never mind fly. 

 

That being said I can understand why someone would like this feature implemented but I can't help think it contradicts flight sims entirely. Not just that but the amount of development time required to make an auto pilot system that reacts to your cursor would consume a lot of resources for something that is consider not flight sim.

 

There is also the problem of joystick users slaughtering mouse users online and as a result it would segregate the community which is what we don't want.

 

Flight simming online is a challenge which is something a lot of casual gamers don't want nower days but it's the most rewarding! Buy a joystick and realise what you've been missing all these years   

Edited September 18, 2013 by =69.GIAP=RADKO

[6./ZG26_Emil]

give the people more options, if some one wonts to fly with mouse make that posible. Work spend to do this will be reworded by more casual buyers. Just leve it as option so server host can select it so no harm done to people who laugh at this option of flying.

 

In IL2 you had funforall servers with almos all options turned off total arcade and server usealy has the most people on HL

 

i agre with Mac_Messer on WT FRB its no way simulation i played it and i played loot of other simulation games to see the differance

 

Yeh but in those IL2 servers you are talking about how many people weren't using a joystick? You can get one for under £20 I don't see what the issue is really. People get their WW2 fix playing an arcade plane game then some of them want more realism so surely they would be buying a stick if they already hadn't done for WT. If it is something super easy the Devs can do it wouldn't bother me but to pander to the arcade crowd isn't necessarily going to bring them to BOS or any other sim for that matter.

[Furio]

I can't see how a mouse would work in BOS. The flight model is hugely more complicated in BOS compared to War Thunder and as a result it demands multiple inputs to achieve even some of the most basic manoeuvres. A mouse couldn't cope with the amount of inputs required to even take off never mind fly.

 

As I understand it, if I’m not mistaken, the system could be actually simple. With the mouse you give orders to an already existing AI pilot, who has no problem in manipulating commands with all the needed finesse, and more.

 

That being said I can understand why someone would like this feature implemented but I can't help think it contradicts flight sims entirely. Not just that but the amount of development time required to make an auto pilot system that reacts to your cursor would consume a lot of resources for something that is consider not flight sim.

Actually, we have no idea at how much resource it’ll need.

 

As others (Yaklovem Mac_Messer…) have said, more options would allow more players to have fun, and we are talking of a game, not a religion. How many options? That’s entirely in the hands of the devs. They know exactly what time and money is needed for each new option, and have all the facts to make an informed and wise decision.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Furio

[BFsSmurfy]

More options, more players, more sales, more theatres. Not my cup of tea, but if you could control it`s use server side it wouldn`t bother me, bottom line is more important than anything. We don`t have to play with the mouse or against players using a mouse if it could be controlled server side, but there might be thousands out there that would like to.

[=LD=dhyran]

......

 

Flight simming online is a challenge which is something a lot of casual gamers don't want nower days but it's the most rewarding! Buy a joystick and realise what you've been missing all these years   

 

100% agree with this! Please don't mix up controls! A Flight sim should be Joystick controlled

We saw at WT how the Mouse/JS issure splitted up the community! Its not good for the game

Edited September 18, 2013 by =LD=dhyran

[ST_ami7b5]

No way.

It would be a self-sabotage.

[SR-F_Winger]

I hope BIGTIME that there wont be anything like mouseaiming or steering. After all this wants to call itself a SIM. That other thing with mouseaim and icon overflow is an arcadegame nothing more.

 

Winger

[Picchio]

NO COMPROMISE!

[=LD=Stache]

If they want to use the mouse to control the plane fine!,but make it cockpit view mandatory and no" artifical" control helpers that give the mouse aimers advantages (no stalling,prop hanging galore,no spinning) over the JS users like it is in WT now, Level the playing field ; you can choose your input method but do not bitch about it, if it has not got the same level of control as a HOTAS.

[leitmotiv]

but why would some one with joystick play on server that has mous keyboard option ON, you just would not play there so guys playing with mous would not bather you,

 

sam as if i see server that alowes cocpit off i dont play on it and players that dont like cocpit on dont play on server i play, no problems and all happy

 

IL2 games have more server options then WT so you can make servers with planty differant options on or off

[ST_ami7b5]

777 should be very careful when dealing with attempts to push BoS towards arcade.

[Bearcat]

You can say that again. The sad part is that people who fly FRB mode really think that this is a full blown sim and they promote it as THE sim. It could be that when BoS gets released, some of the FRB fliers will want to try something different and that in sim flying they`re pure beginners.

 

Then let them fly WT till they get bored and then come to BoS.. Look at all the current IL2 diehards who were holdouts elsewhere and finally came over..  Look if these guys want more sim and less game then they can go to IL2 for a better simming experience.. but some of them have no idea what simming is and the last thing 1CGS needs to do is cater to a crowd that is already engaged in a sim that is beneath the standards that they are trying to set.

 

Flight simming online is a challenge which is something a lot of casual gamers don't want nower days but it's the most rewarding! Buy a joystick and realise what you've been missing all these years   

 

 

Exactly.. Not only that .. considering that this product should be in some of our hands within the next 45 days .. I don't see them even having the tie to waste on such a feature.

 

777 should be very careful when dealing with attempts to push BoS towards arcade.

 

You got that right..

[Revvin]

War Thunders flight model is not anything like the complexity IL2: BoS will have so I think mouse control would be hard to do without implementing aids to assist that pilot. You're then on a slippery slope to adding aids that may be seen as and advantage by other players. With such an array of cheap joysticks with twist rudders available I don't see why mouse control is needed, it's just another headache for the developer and perhaps taking resources away from a more warranted feature

[Sturm_]

Use mouse as Joystick? Souinds good, extremely difficult I guess but good.

 

But the WT mode of having an AI pilot following your cursor on the screen, managing to avoid stalls, making coordinated turns and all sorts of manouvers that you should practice for a decent time before getting good at them, is not good for a sim.

 

If you reduce the realism settings in a Sim, you can even fly with a keyboard (that's how I started playing Il-2 many years ago).

 

The learning curve of a Sim is steep, and it's supposed to be that way. WT is not a sim, and it targets a different crowd. I tested it, and got bored after really little time.

Edited September 18, 2013 by [URU]Fox

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Just keep anything WT related out of BoS! This is a sim, not an arcade shooter

[BMA_West]

The planes nose follows where ever your mouse reticle aims at (and likewise guns). I tried WT and even setup my joystick and controls, but for some reason joysticks don't seem to work well with WT (at least in my experience with FRB). Its an arcade game and if people want to step up into the higher fidelity simulation then with it goes some new hardware, most notably a joystick.

Also entirely agree on that one.

For joystick flying in WT you need to shut off the instructor and to be in the cockpit checking wing positions etc.

The while those mouse/keyboard players just point where to go the instructor doing the flying for them so completely taking any real taste from the experience.

And more important, on top of that they fly outside the cockpit or wonderwoman way,(most of the bombers having no cocpit view) with the aiming recticule always stable and centered, rediculing anyone around in his cockpit flying with a stick and trackir.

P E L E A S E NOT IN HERE, P EL E A S E.

Edited September 18, 2013 by West

[Mac_Messer]

Then let them fly WT till they get bored and then come to BoS.. Look at all the current IL2 diehards who were holdouts elsewhere and finally came over..  Look if these guys want more sim and less game then they can go to IL2 for a better simming experience.. but some of them have no idea what simming is and the last thing 1CGS needs to do is cater to a crowd that is already engaged in a sim that is beneath the standards that they are trying to set.

It is not that simple. You see what I was saying is that ,deliberately or not from WT producer`s POV, the fans are promoting the game as a full blown sim and as such step into a field that is supposed to be reserved for titles like IL2 : BoS and DCS. This way, they are making themselves a competition for those titles even yet it is apples and oranges. WT or its fans for that matter, exploit the main message what is : you are playing a combat flight simulator. This message is fake but is obvious only to some of WT players. Many of them think they`re flying THE sim that is out there.

So for the same reason WT sees itself as competition for BoS, BoS should step into the casual genre to gather some of the more ambitious fans along with those people who think they`re flying the real thing.

Needless to say, with release of BoS the comparing with WT will start rightaway. As that, the WT will be presented as the better game because of its MMO-like qualities, BoS promoters need to accept the confrontation and present it as THE sim that WT has been announced as. This way (imo ofcourse), some of WT users will be lured to BoS not only because of true sim experience but also for a better online gaming experience overall. Having said that, I don`t think BoS has any choice but to accept the challenge.

 

A promoting campaign led with confidence of the qualities mentioned above could give BoS many newcomers years sooner than it was with the original IL2.

[ST_ami7b5]

WT is NO competition to BoS.

Would you suggest also to DCS:WWII to implement mouse-aim?

[TheBlackPenguin]

You can say that again. The sad part is that people who fly FRB mode really think that this is a full blown sim and they promote it as THE sim. It could be that when BoS gets released, some of the FRB fliers will want to try something different and that in sim flying they`re pure beginners.

 

This very thing was witnessed over on the Steam ROF forums, some people creating (in knee jerk fashion) threads stating War Thunder was the sim to use.

 

Bringing in arcade controls to attract the arcade style players is not the way imho, I doubt many will switch to joysticks anyway.

[Mac_Messer]

WT is NO competition to BoS.

Would you suggest also to DCS:WWII to implement mouse-aim?

They say otherwise. So confront them.