The IL 2 experience

[Lusekofte]

I never really got the chance to be a loose cannon in the huge drama concerning the release of this game,  When people started to yell bad and other subjective opinions based mostly on general stuff, I found myself in the defense  of this game. This does not mean I think all is good, but it never have or going to be a bad sim.

mostly because of the game physics, and the LAGG in alpha version showed me right there and then I probably finally got to see and feel  how the real IL 2 Sturmovik behaved and performed.

It is the plane I have been obsessed with since the beginning of my aviation interest. I have read all I could find about this plane, pilot stories, design and evolution. 

I cannot say for sure of course , I never flown a IL 2. But in my head based on all I read about it I think you guys nailed it. A perfect gun platform with the performance of a 6,5 ton concrete brick, hauled by a 1200 hp engine.

I am impressed by this astonishing accomplishment alone, so when I got to fly the PE-2, I simply could not be happier.

So now when you know my favorites (LAGG, IL2 and PE-2) you might understand I have a horrible kill ratio.

 

It is a 20 year dream coming thru for me, I am satisfied for these reasons only, I wish other stuff was different, but I do understand priorities has to be made.

I just wanted to say that, thank you

Edited December 17, 2014 by LuseKofte

[Bearcat]

Yeah the sim has it's issues.. but at it's core it is a decent product. I hope to one day fly a Mustang under these FMs.

[Yakdriver]

LaGG and IL-2 for me, in that order.

Difficult, Challenging, Purpose-built Traktors.

These two alone make BoS worth having, for me.

Thanks for the kind words!

Edited December 17, 2014 by Yakdriver

[CIA_Yankee_]

Hear hear!

 

I've started flying the IL-2 this week, and I have to say it is quite a fun ride.

 

Had this great mission in SP just last night, doing a CAS mission. My cover was actually quite effective, driving off some 109s and shooting down a couple of Stukas. Then as I returned to my airfield (in the dark, by then), there were a couple of 109s overhead getting painted by the searchlights, and one was shot down by the AAA.

 

Very impressive.

[vonPilsner]

Flying the IL 2 and Pe-2 is great fun, I agree!

[D.B.Cooper]

This sim is great! The devs made a masterpiece, a future classic!

[Y-29.Silky]

The people who bitch about all that stuff, do not really appreciate flight simulators in my opinion because the feel of flight, the sense of actually being there in the pilot seat is unparalleled and out weighs the unlock system and the other small problems entirely. I don't even get this feeling in DCS.

 

You can feel the engine, which is the #1 thing you feel in real life, if my chair vibrated, I'd have the full sensation of being up in the air. (Besides the twitchy joystick movements)

 

Yeah the sim has it's issues.. but at it's core it is a decent product. I hope to one day fly a Mustang under these FMs.

That would be my ultimate dream, and is why I'm so annoying when it comes to people talking about the next theater. Western Europe would be so epic. And the Merlin engine... Edited December 17, 2014 by Silky

[BladeMeister]

The people who bitch about all that stuff, do not really appreciate flight simulators in my opinion because the feel of flight, the sense of actually being there in the pilot seat is unparalleled and out weighs the unlock system and the other small problems entirely. I don't even get this feeling in DCS.

 

You can feel the engine, which is the #1 thing you feel in real life, if my chair vibrated, I'd have the full sensation of being up in the air. (Besides the twitchy joystick movements)

 

That would be my ultimate dream, and is why I'm so annoying when it comes to people talking about the next theater. Western Europe would be so epic. And the Merlin engine...

Now that is a bunch of Horse Hockey. I have been Simming since way back in  the Falcon , Flanker2.0 and NovaLogic Mig29 and F16 days and own and have flown pretty extensively every majoe sim up until the present, and   while BOS is not  the worst, it surely is no masterpeice either. The feeling of flight is almost identicle to ROF(very light), which should not be, as WWII planes are much heavier. I like CLODs and DCSs and ROFs feeeling of "actually flying" much better than BOS. It seems BOS needs more feeling of gravtational pull on  the pull out from dives and most higher G maneuvers, IMHO.  You might hear the engine, but you surely cannot feel the engine unless you have a butt kicker, in which case you would actually feel  the sound waves.  That is funny that you mention a "twitchy joystick" because I have flown(dual controls) a 1941 Stearmen and both  the Stick  and  the pedals were rock solid even in aerobatic maneuvers(which we did). as I watched the stick in front of me as the pilot pulled us through the maneuvers, the stick was rock solid. The P51 in DCS is quite good and hopefully we will have  the WWII map in quarter 2 of 2015.

 

S!Blade<><

[gx007]

I'm glad Luse you shared your love and background on the IL2. It was a pleasure to fly with you the other night.

[Matt]

The people who bitch about all that stuff, do not really appreciate flight simulators in my opinion because the feel of flight, the sense of actually being there in the pilot seat is unparalleled and out weighs the unlock system and the other small problems entirely.

Actually, i think it's the exact opposite. People complain about stuff which is wrong or atleast very questionable, because they do appreciate flight simulators and this game in particular a lot and want it to succeed. I haven't read a single complaint or suggestion, which would drive BoS away from being a flight simulator and countless of suggestions for the contrary.

 

If they wouldn't appreciate flight simulators, they wouldn't have bought (in many cases pre-ordered) it, but play Warthunder or something else and wouldn't still be here.

[Lusekofte]

Now that is a bunch of Horse Hockey. I have been Simming since way back in  the Falcon , Flanker2.0 and NovaLogic Mig29 and F16 days and own and have flown pretty extensively every majoe sim up until the present, and   while BOS is not  the worst, it surely is no masterpeice either. The feeling of flight is almost identicle to ROF(very light), which should not be, as WWII planes are much heavier. I like CLODs and DCSs and ROFs feeeling of "actually flying" much better than BOS. It seems BOS needs more feeling of gravtational pull on  the pull out from dives and most higher G maneuvers, IMHO.  You might hear the engine, but you surely cannot feel the engine unless you have a butt kicker, in which case you would actually feel  the sound waves.  That is funny that you mention a "twitchy joystick" because I have flown(dual controls) a 1941 Stearmen and both  the Stick  and  the pedals were rock solid even in aerobatic maneuvers(which we did). as I watched the stick in front of me as the pilot pulled us through the maneuvers, the stick was rock solid. The P51 in DCS is quite good and hopefully we will have  the WWII map in quarter 2 of 2015.

 

S!Blade<><

I will thank you for giving me a example on a typical flight sim enthusiast, you are perfect.

You are convinced you are the only one with earlier experience to the genre, you are also convinced you are the only one that is right.

I am sure you got a friend that is a pilot also.

I have absolutely nothing against your opinion, I just got enough of the way you start your post with, just too much drama, you are entitled to the same degree of respect as you yourselves give.

But I disagree in many of your points, True, when low of fuel and ordnance the planes act very light and too responsive to wind. But in the positive side you got a very authentic experience when dropping the bombs witch actually make the plane lighter, not just turn your speed and climb rate up a bit like DCS and COD.

You see I flown DCS and COD for years, no need for explaining how it works, I still do.

COD got a good , realistic and complex FM, but no feel what so ever. Like fly on rails. But why bring that into this topic?

I praise the russian planes in this game, The good things about them. 

 

====================================================================================================================================

 

 

I'm glad Luse you shared your love and background on the IL2. It was a pleasure to fly with you the other night.

 

Meet too, enjoyed it very much, hope to see you in server soon, 

[GP*]

Yes, the planes flop around too much. The environment to allow for an excellent "feeling of flight" is there. The aircraft are missing some inertia.

 

I still love this game, though.

[Dakpilot]

Rof and Bos are indeed an improvement when used with an MFFB2, I have not tried either with a very high end non FF stick but personally would not spend the money for what I would consider a retrograde step in "feeling of flight" When the control forces go light and the stick flops about at the top of a stall turn, or stiffening up with speed, buffet at near accelerated stall, and suchlike, it immediately gives me that feeling of "being there" rather than controlling a virtual aircraft. I pretty much stopped using DCS when a bug that took about 6 months to fix made using FF stick impossible ( would love to have seen the howling going on here if such a situation occurred!  ...guess DCS fans are more patient when it come to that sim  ) tried to get back into it, DCS...but will have to wait a few years for it to get fleshed out to the point BoS is at now, also the "feel" and environment leaves me uninvolved.

 

For me the future feels bright with DN engine, just wish some company would release a new FFB stick/Hotas to the same (or better) standard as the now very old but capable MS one

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Y-29.Silky]

Now that is a bunch of Horse Hockey. I have been Simming since way back in  the Falcon , Flanker2.0 and NovaLogic Mig29 and F16 days and own and have flown pretty extensively every majoe sim up until the present, and   while BOS is not  the worst, it surely is no masterpeice either. The feeling of flight is almost identicle to ROF(very light), which should not be, as WWII planes are much heavier. I like CLODs and DCSs and ROFs feeeling of "actually flying" much better than BOS. It seems BOS needs more feeling of gravtational pull on  the pull out from dives and most higher G maneuvers, IMHO.  You might hear the engine, but you surely cannot feel the engine unless you have a butt kicker, in which case you would actually feel  the sound waves.  That is funny that you mention a "twitchy joystick" because I have flown(dual controls) a 1941 Stearmen and both  the Stick  and  the pedals were rock solid even in aerobatic maneuvers(which we did). as I watched the stick in front of me as the pilot pulled us through the maneuvers, the stick was rock solid. The P51 in DCS is quite good and hopefully we will have  the WWII map in quarter 2 of 2015.

 

S!Blade<><

Well, thanks I'm a hockey player; never heard of horse hockey, but it sounds rather gongshow. And seeing how you like to challenge everything, this will be interesting.

 

You're not the only old one who has been simming since back then, who recognizes Novalogic, just happy you didn't choose their F-22 sim, I started with Janes WWII Fighters. I never said this game was perfect, but clod, that is so outdated, SO OUTDATED. Compared to BoS, in Clod, you're connecting the dots from A to B, in BoS, you're flying.  I don't know how many flight hours you have in real life, but I have not flown a "WWII Flight Simulator" that so closely replicates the feel of flight, as Battle of Stalingrad does. I don't know how you can say ROF is better because essentially, they're the same damn thing, but different eras. P-51 in DCS is good, but still, it doesn't compare, my grandpa said the Merlin engine would wear them down the most, I do not get that powerful feeling in DCS, like I do in BoS.

 

Edited December 18, 2014 by Silky

[FlatSpinMan]

Please don't get into this fight again. Please post calmly, respectful of all other members.

[SYN_Bandy]

...if my chair vibrated, I'd have the full sensation of being up in the air. ...

Get your self a Butt Kicker then http://www.thebuttkicker.com/

[Yakdriver]

and this kind of thread is exactly why... "some" lose their Respect to the CFS Community.

Opinions and blows, impatience...

 

all the man aimed to do, was to say he feels about as "Right" as he can in his Fat, Armored, Pickuptruck,

 

Half a Dozen Posts later, people are Pulling their Pens's out of their Pockets, start comparing them, and tell tales of the Chicks they used to bang with'em

 

Never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him.

 

Q: What's the difference between a fighter pilot and God?

A: God doesn't think He's a fighter pilot.

 

Awesome!

Thanks!

Way to go!

 

 

q: Why are the servers empty and not filled to the brim 24/7?

a: Nobody wants to fly with you lot!

 

This is also the "il-2 experience"... or is it BoS specific?

Edited December 18, 2014 by Yakdriver

[Lusekofte]

Personally I think everything said here is fine, if the Horse hockey thingy had been left out. I lived and breath flight sim community since 1998 and flown sim like since 1996. What you see is passion, people see the huge potential for this sim to be exactly what they looking for, and it is not. 

It will never be, there are simply not enough money in it to get me totally pleased. What you see as a critique is a person wanting the best for us.

It just bring a lot of compassion and frustration with it, The flight sim community are starved, and those few making it are taking the brunt and receive this many years old frustration, we have simply no where else to put it.

We cannot put Team Fusion to the wall, they are a dedicated volunteer group doing it for free. 

We need to understand we all are in to this together, nothing will ever be exactly how one person wants it, this sim can only be better if the community make the best of it.

I have thousand of hours in a Heinkel in COD, and I intend to spend quite the same in Russian bombers  here if the community evolve the same way as it had until now.

I met many dedicated pilots here, that is all I need

[Yakdriver]

 

 

We need to understand we all are in to this together, nothing will ever be exactly how one person wants it, this sim can only be better if the community make the best of it.

 

The "make the best of it" won't give any awesome results, because as you said... this one can not please us all, we, as flight simmers never have "enough", and because we always seem to know what's best.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

My meaningless two cents. We are all entitled to our say or opinion. And we should be able to except that as I feel most here do. But once it's said one should not dwell excessively on it. In one way or another we all have our flight sim experiences. And I am sincerely amazed at some of very knowledgeable folks in these, and other, forums.  

 

Sharing our good and bad experiences can be very helpful and educating. Just as driving a subject too far can be aggravating. Or not seeing any chance in something you just know needs to be changed. Still we enjoy (most of us) what we do have.

 

Chief

[Bearcat]

It is all in the delivery. Opinions can be stated without the "colorful" language.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

It is all in the delivery. Opinions can be stated without the "colorful" language.

 

Agreed .... but I sure do wish I could go back in and correct some of my grammatical mistakes. But alas you guys/gals will just have to translate.

 

Chief

[CIA_Yankee_]

Generally I agree with the sentiment in this thread, but the horse hockey thing is unnecessary. It's possible to disagree about the quality of the FM and handling without being confrontational about it.

 

Personally, I absolutely love it, and think BoS gives on of the best sensation of flight in any combat sims I've enjoyed (including CLoD, BoBII, FSX A2A Spitfire, and so on), and has a great attention to detail.

 

Couple that with a very stable engine that requires _no_ complex patching or add-ons or whatever to make it functional, and it's wonderful. I actually don't have to worry about the sim working properly when I use BoS, and that is a huge quality of life improvement over most sims these days. Granted, it'll be more complicated once mods come out (looking forward to an immersive campaign mod, myself), but still I am constantly impressed by how polished this product is.

 

Heck, even the GUI is impressive compared to most sims. It's modern, slick, probably would work fine on a touchscreen, and it simply looks professionally done. That's a breath of fresh air for a genre that traditionally doesn't really care about such things. Even the technochat is well presented, in fact.

 

Anyway, I'm glad the OP is enjoying himself. Don't let anyone ruin your enthousiasm.

[senseispcc]

I am saying the sim is wonderful so realistic but the game is not finished no FMB, no skin build possible, etc. The aircrafts are marvelous machines to fly.

Edited December 18, 2014 by senseispcc

[Bearcat]

But we know that... of course it is not finished... Hopefully it will be an ongoing work in progress for years to come. I will be surprised if we do not have the ME by early 2015.

[Urra]

I am saying the sim is wonderful so realistic but the game is not finished no FMB, no skin build possible, etc. The aircrafts are marvelous machines to fly.

It it for the long haul, love the experience that is here and may only get better... but waiting is a battle all its own.

Edited December 19, 2014 by roaming_gnome

[=CFC=Conky]

My first experience with computer flight sims was on a Timex-Sinclair ZX-71. I've tried just about every pc sim since then. 

 

From a 'flight' standpoint, I think BoS is very good, some other aspects of the game might raise a eyebrow slightly, but overall I have no complaints. Designing a flight sim is a lot like flying for real, part science, part art. The devs have accomplished something I could probably never do. Thank you!

Edited December 19, 2014 by CFC_Conky

[Lusekofte]

I do not know why this game went un cool for the "hardcore simmers" I got many things I want different, but this tread was for the good feel I got when I fly specific AC .

I wanted the developers to know that I appreciate that fact, that I now spend time with this jewel.

It is kind of a topic rape starting ranting it with the games obvious and not so obvious flaws, and I am kind of fed up being on the defensive side all the time.

I am perfectly fine with simmers that will not lower them selves to fly this sim, they need to not fly this sim a bit more quietly.

And I give a rat´s ass if they get offended when I fly "their" sim in occasions. 

I did literarily come from "their" game and are more active on this. 

I am active on many sites, and I find that everything is based on attack and defend approaches. There are actually very few sites that manage to keep objective when it comes to the sim they represent and in special other sim´s 

In short, I was not opening a debate on the game in general, and those of you disagreeing on what I actually wrote in first post, I very much like to know , because there are simply no better modeled  LAGG, IL 2, PE-2, YAK , LA5, 109 F and G2, FW-190 A3, Heinkel H6, and Stuka D-3/ G1 out there. NOT 1, There are nothing to compare with on these models, and it is not fair mentioning old IL 2, it was the best at one time

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

I do not know why this game went un cool for the "hardcore simmers" I got many things I want different, but this tread was for the good feel I got when I fly specific AC .

I wanted the developers to know that I appreciate that fact, that I now spend time with this jewel.

It is kind of a topic rape starting ranting it with the games obvious and not so obvious flaws, and I am kind of fed up being on the defensive side all the time.

I am perfectly fine with simmers that will not lower them selves to fly this sim, they need to not fly this sim a bit more quietly.

And I give a rat´s ass if they get offended when I fly "their" sim in occasions. 

I did literarily come from "their" game and are more active on this. 

I am active on many sites, and I find that everything is based on attack and defend approaches. There are actually very few sites that manage to keep objective when it comes to the sim they represent and in special other sim´s 

In short, I was not opening a debate on the game in general, and those of you disagreeing on what I actually wrote in first post, I very much like to know , because there are simply no better modeled  LAGG, IL 2, PE-2, YAK , LA5, 109 F and G2, FW-190 A3, Heinkel H6, and Stuka D-3/ G1 out there. NOT 1, There are nothing to compare with on these models, and it is not fair mentioning old IL 2, it was the best at one time

 

You know I remember even before the REAL troubles of Cliffs of Dover hit us that many in the old IL-2 forums such as SAS were very much against it. Why? Perhaps it was as simple as New verses Old? I don't really know.

 

Chief

Edited December 19, 2014 by -NW-ChiefRedCloud

[Lusekofte]

Yes I remember, I was the first to pre order cod, and I met a wall of ignorance. I think that was because no one had a pc to run it. It was my most expensive purchase ever. I had to spend over 5000 $ on a new rig to run it.

It still run everything I throw at it . As I see it this is a bit more a kind of arrogance 

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Just in comparing notes, I bought CloD at BestBuy (when they had computer software which is not so much now) for $60 ....

 

Chief

[Yakdriver]

 

 

LAGG, IL 2, PE-2, YAK , LA5, 109 F and G2, FW-190 A3, Heinkel H6, and Stuka D-3/ G1 out there.

 

FSX's Classics hangar A3/4/5/6/7/8

http://www.classics-hangar.de/produkte_fw190a_CD.htm

 

check the manual

:-)

 

 

That one Can compare.

 

 

 

 

... but no guns hahahaha

[Lusekofte]

Sorry I got that game somewhere I meant cfs tho , 

[CIA_Yankee_]

You know I remember even before the REAL troubles of Cliffs of Dover hit us that many in the old IL-2 forums such as SAS were very much against it. Why? Perhaps it was as simple as New verses Old? I don't really know.

 

Chief

 

That's probably part of it. I think some people just don't like the perceived competition, even though its in everyone's interest to have as many successful sims as possible (which right now is reduced to pretty much 2 dev houses... and BoS right now is the only actual WWII experience that is released AND has an actual dev team working on it).

 

Then add actual complaints people had (unlocks and such), and it snowballs and self-reinforces. In the end we will all lose, if it actually succeeds at driving away BoS players.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Good points Yankee .... but then I've often wondered just how many pilots or would be pilots read the forums much less read back in them. Of course this tiny tactical nuke reached quite a few forums outside of BoS.

 

Chief

[Danziger]

 

 

 

Never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Fighter pukes make movies. Bomber pilots make history."

[Yakdriver]

Yea. by Burning down cities from Firebombing lancaster dresden braunschweig tokyo.... mwahahahahahaaha
Chant with me... Civilians must die! Civilians must die! Civilians must die!

 

They are makin good money, also expressed as they're makin' a killin'!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=make%20a%20killing

 

Pukes? Both have guns and Bombs.

War is the Mass destruction of innocence...

[GP*]

 

 

"Fighter pukes make movies. Bomber pilots make history."

 

 

 

"The average fighter pilot, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else."

[Bearcat]

Well since I have been doing that campaign.. and flying more.. I like it even more than I did and the grinding is not so bad once you just start it. I still feel the same way about it.. but none of the things that I find problematic with BoS render it a dog and i just dont get some of the folks who have walked away from it or consider it arcade.  It runs well... it looks fantastic.. day or night.. The nightime sky is the best I ahev ever seen... The moon goes through phases ... the search lights get you .. and lock onto you! How cool is that? This sim is going to do fine and I am pretty confident that it will once and for all dispell some myths that have been floating around in some circles for years now... 

 

No matter what the critics say... oif you build a good sim that works... it will stand the test of time. I think BoS will be around for a long time.. even more so if they make some changes... There is a LOT to like about this sim.

[Danziger]

It was a quote from Flight of the Intruder lol.