Stalingrad, and why the Fw190 should be in the game.

[5th-GIAP_Sytov]

I don't believe there is any actual documented evidence that F-14 Tomcats were not present at Stallingrad

 

....if there were.....it would have been.....CLASSIFIED. 

[gavagai]

Don't worry, you will get your 190, and probably many other "amazing" things.

 

It could have been there in '42, right?

Edited September 17, 2013 by gavagai

[SCG_Neun]

Remember the plane allocation table back in the day......from IanBoys?  This might come in handy......

http://www.yogysoft.de/Support.htm

 

You'll see it under planeset.....

 

As far as multiplay....can't the historical servers set the aircraft parameters? 

[ImPeRaToR]

Remember the plane allocation table back in the day......from IanBoys?  This might come in handy......

http://www.yogysoft.de/Support.htm

 

You'll see it under planeset.....

 

As far as multiplay....can't the historical servers set the aircraft parameters? 

Yes, but this requires the mission creator to be very objective and knowledgeable of all the aircraft in question - not easily achieved. Especially when you consider how many people only fly for one side and therefore never will be able to make  such objective decisions.

[Zmaj76]

Yes, but this requires the mission creator to be very objective and knowledgeable of all the aircraft in question - not easily achieved. Especially when you consider how many people only fly for one side and therefore never will be able to make  such objective decisions.

 

Well I hope we will have 190s in fast food servers and that we will have historical missions on other servers without 190s.....maybe even COOps....its all about mission design, preferences and servers....and....LA5 was a good match in horizontal fight vs all german planes at that time...

Edited September 17, 2013 by Tvrdi

[ImPeRaToR]

LA5 was a good match in horizontal fight vs all german planes at that time...

Yes and it might be the only Russian plane with a decent chance of catching 190s, which might lead to everyone just flying 190s and La5s, making all other planes redundant.

 

But I really don't want to paint a black picture just yet, let's wait and see.

[Livai]

I have only one problem with the FW-190 A-3 and that is if we would get a history accurate Battle of Stalingrad with planes that is 100% confirmed that they were there or a fantasy Battle Stalingrad with planes that were not there? Lets write a new History with the FW-190 A-3..................... And don't worry about the Russian that they can not catch the FW-190!---> Fear the December 1942 FW-190 the Yak-9 comes to meet you! 

[dkoor]

Yes and it might be the only Russian plane with a decent chance of catching 190s, which might lead to everyone just flying 190s and La5s, making all other planes redundant.

 

But I really don't want to paint a black picture just yet, let's wait and see.

That will happen on deathmatch servers as it happened before, with late war Spitfires, Lavochkins, Doras, Mustangs, rear prop Dorniers etc.

Many will still probably prefer that kind of approach to historical crap ways of flying underdog planes in uneven matches.

[thx1138]

Don't worry, I will try my hardest with the LaGG 3. Don;t know why but have always had a fondness for it. This just means I'll have to be very sneaky with it. Thankfully I have LOD on my side

 

[Zmaj76]

Yes and it might be the only Russian plane with a decent chance of catching 190s, which might lead to everyone just flying 190s and La5s, making all other planes redundant.

 

But I really don't want to paint a black picture just yet, let's wait and see.

 

Well Imp, I hope we will have some historical missions with historical planeset....eh?

Edited September 18, 2013 by Tvrdi

[DD_Crash]

What were the numbers of aircraft in the air on each side at this point in the war? Was the Luftwaffe outnumbered? If so will this factor have any effect in campaigns?

[DrDag]

I don't really see what the problem is with having the 190 in the game. You want to play historically, bam, limit the plane set in your mission or on your pvp-server and you are a happy puppy. Complaining about getting additional features in a Simulation, really? I mean we are all kind of plane enthusiasts or not? More planes = better (no matter whether Red or Blue) . 

 

cheers,

Dag

[AndyHill]

As far as having La-5 and FW190 in game I think it's a good thing although they might have been marginal in the Stalingrad operation. It might take a while after launch before we get new maps and scenarios, so especially for multiplayer Stalingrad will have to do and those planes will bring nice variety.

 

As far as screaming goes, in the '46 Il-2 I was always very impressed by (I think it was) a British pilot, who so strictly held on to protocol until the very end. "This is number two. AEAAERRAAAAAAAEARRRRGGHHHHH!!!!1!!!!!"

[VA_NAVY]

 Please if you want a bunch of historical inaccuracy go play the other games. I am so looking forward to this being close to the real deal and a simulator. Please devs do not fold to the crybabies. 

[gavagai]

 Please if you want a bunch of historical inaccuracy go play the other games. I am so looking forward to this being close to the real deal and a simulator. Please devs do not fold to the crybabies. 

 

Not going to say it.

[JG4Helofly]

I also don't see the problem with the FW190. Yes, it was not in Stalingrad at that time, but it's one extra plane we get. And especially for the blue side it's a welcome plane since the 190 is one of just two fighter types the Luftwaffe had. furthermore, it fits in the time periode.

And about the concern that servers will only have La 5 vs FW 190 battles, that's inevitable as soon as planes with different performance are represented in the game.

[Matt]

Even the so called "historical" servers will have the 190 in it. Otherwise they will just lose players which will go to another server and they can't afford that to happen. Just look at the populated Clod and RoF servers. I doubt it will be any different in BoS.

 

Still, the 109 is very popular, so I doubt it will be replaced by the 190. The planes are different enough. Not sure how the Yak will perform compared to the La-5. The Lagg doesn't really stand a chance, not even in ground attack role, because the Il-2 and Pe-2 are just better suited. But maybe it will work as a bomber interceptor with the 37mm, if there are actually some He-111 around in MP to shoot down.

[SYN_Jedders]

It will surely be hard to "shoehorn" the 190 into the Staligrad scenario with any degree of historical accuracy. I can see the La5 to some extent in limited numbers. We ahve started a discussion about how we could use other areas of the map in later scenarios to introduce the 190 to alternate missions in the rotation. Im guessing until we fill a few blanks in the planesets/maps it will be "damned if you do, damned if you dont".

 

Those that bought it will want to use it...those that find it hard to accept in the contemporary timeframe, well, wont

[gavagai]

Those that bought it will want to use it...those that find it hard to accept in the contemporary timeframe, well, wont

 

Those that find it hard to accept will probably have to fight in on almost every multiplayer server within a few months of release.  Same goes for the La-5.  Eschewing historicity is a slippery slope and we've seen exactly where it leads in other sims.

[5th-GIAP_Sytov]

Guys....your all splitting hairs on this issue now and it is getting old now.  IL-2 1946 is long over due for something to be the sequel.  IL-2 BOS seems to be that sequel for those of us who fly within this virtual world of WW II aircraft.  All of us I'm sure would like to see a successful sequel with follow on theatres constructed for all of us to enjoy down the road by the devs.  Don't worry about the FW-190 or the LA-5.  They are both nice aircraft regardless of the outcome.  At the end of the day, its up to the pilot to fly the plane regardless of the setting. 

[Panzerlang]

I'm sure some post-Stalingrad scenarios can be enacted on other parts of the map, to encompass the time frame in which the Fw190 was historically active.

[BMW801]

I bought the premium for three big reasons: 1. To support the company for the development of a WWII sim of the quality of RoF.

                                                                      2. To have early access to this outstanding sim. I still fly IL2 1946 and am looking forward to its successor

                                                                      3. To fly the FW190 and La-5. I know that the FW190 was not in BoS, and I love historical accuracy, but I love both of these planes and would love to fly them in single missions, much like I fly  many of the planes in RoF. They will enhance my enjoyment of this excellent sim. I have seen the map in what has been released so far and most of it is sufficiently generic for the Eastern front that it will not require any significant suspension of disbelief to fly them as single missions in this sim. Also it should pave the way for future expansion into other theaters.

Edited September 18, 2013 by BMW801

[5th-GIAP_Sytov]

I'm sure some post-Stalingrad scenarios can be enacted on other parts of the map, to encompass the time frame in which the Fw190 was historically active.

 

Good point Siggi..

[DB605]

Yes and it might be the only Russian plane with a decent chance of catching 190s, which might lead to everyone just flying 190s and La5s, making all other planes redundant.

 

But I really don't want to paint a black picture just yet, let's wait and see.

 

I don't really understand what's the fuss about 190 is. Version will be a-3 wich was only marginally faster than 109 G2, it has worse rate of climb and it won't be that agile in turn fight anyways.

Sure it's great fighter but nothing "uber" compared to 109, and no russian plane in this planeset will be able to catch even 109 if flown correctly.

[=LD=Scronce]

I guess this is the proof needed as to why us adults should really watch our language on forums like these, that young man has obviously been corrupted by too much exposure to us old fogeys.

You bad old man!

[Livai]

The production of the FW-190 A-3 started spring 1942 and the production of the FW-190 A-4 was July 1942. According to the German Military Archive the two Fighters were used at the same time period like Battle of Stalingrad. Possible to see a  FW-190 A-4 with MW-50-Systems. 

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

no MW50 in a serial 190A-4!

Close this book....... :D

THE difference between an -3 and -4 was its radio and the antenna mounting on the vertical stabalizer.

[dkoor]

Even the so called "historical" servers will have the 190 in it. Otherwise they will just lose players which will go to another server and they can't afford that to happen. Just look at the populated Clod and RoF servers. I doubt it will be any different in BoS.

 

Still, the 109 is very popular, so I doubt it will be replaced by the 190. The planes are different enough. Not sure how the Yak will perform compared to the La-5. The Lagg doesn't really stand a chance, not even in ground attack role, because the Il-2 and Pe-2 are just better suited. But maybe it will work as a bomber interceptor with the 37mm, if there are actually some He-111 around in MP to shoot down.

Agree with everything.

However, as some guys indicated, I think it wont be too hard to rack up some kills in LaGG versus various Luftwaffe types as long as you fly smart (and especially vice versa of course).

Many did it before, myself included in old IL-2, it can be done even on "serious" servers, and there is nothing better but to shot your oppo down from disadvantageous position with objectively underdog plane.

 

I think the underdogs will stand very little to no chance mostly on shoot em up deathmatch servers tho (which will, I imagine be the most popular).

Guys....your all splitting hairs on this issue now and it is getting old now.  IL-2 1946 is long over due for something to be the sequel.  IL-2 BOS seems to be that sequel for those of us who fly within this virtual world of WW II aircraft.  All of us I'm sure would like to see a successful sequel with follow on theatres constructed for all of us to enjoy down the road by the devs.  Don't worry about the FW-190 or the LA-5.  They are both nice aircraft regardless of the outcome.  At the end of the day, its up to the pilot to fly the plane regardless of the setting. 

+1 Can't agree more

[Livai]

no MW50 in a serial 190A-4!

Close this book....... :D

THE difference between an -3 and -4 was its radio and the antenna mounting on the vertical stabalizer.

I open the closed book and what my eyes see----> The FW-190 A-4 Engine was prepared to use the MW-50! But delayed delivery made a build in to the planes at the end of 1943 possible.   

[ImPeRaToR]

I open the closed book and what my eyes see----> The FW-190 A-4 Engine was prepared to use the MW-50! But delayed delivery made a build in to the planes at the end of 1943 possible. 

If I am not mistaken it was not until the A-8 that there actually was a tank for MW50, so whether or not the engine is prepared for it is rather irrelevant if there is no MW50 on the plane to inject it.

 

 

Said tank was however usually filled with C3 fuel instead - if I am not mistaken the only 190s operating with MW50 were Doras on B4 fuel.

Edited September 18, 2013 by ImPeRaToR

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

an A-4 had no tank to carry MW50 fluid.......the first that had such a tank (115l size) was the A-8 , but most times it wascused to carry more fuel.

 

but ok ,hell, the 190s were at the easternfront, but not at stalingrad area- put them in!

Foke Wulf did test flew MW 50 in A -4s but never in serial ones - put them in !

 

 

Nonsense for a historical based ( i belive it is ment to be, but i can be wrong it seems) combat flightsim IMHO!

Edited September 18, 2013 by III/JG53Frankyboy

[Livai]

If I am not mistaken it was not until the A-8 that there actually was a tank for MW50, so whether or not the engine is prepared for it is rather irrelevant if there is no MW50 on the plane to inject it.

 

 

Said tank was however usually filled with C3 fuel instead - if I am not mistaken the only 190s operating with MW50 were Doras on B4 fuel.

 

You mean the GM-1 System that the FW-190 A-8 used with the MW-50 System together. That are two different Systems. Just take a look at my Source

 

 

an A-4 had no tank to carry MW50 fluid.......the first that had such a tank (115l size) was the A-8 , but most times it wascused to carry more fuel.

 

but ok ,hell, the 190s were at the easternfront, but not at stalingrad area- put them in!

Foke Wulf did test flew MW 50 in A -4s but never in serial ones - put them in !

 

 

Nonsense for a historical based ( i belive it is ment to be, but i can be wrong it seems) combat flightsim IMHO!

 

If they had not the delayed delivery problems with the MW-50 the FW-190 A-4 be the first fighter that use this system and not the FW-190 A-8. I see the english wikipedia gives less informations than the german wikipedia. My Source: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_190#Fw_190_A-4

 

EDIT: The FW-190 A-4 was prepared for the MW-50 to build in but the delivery problems of the System made a serial build impossible! But at the End of 1943 where no more delivery problems more but at this time the FW-190 A-8 goes to the production. And thats the point why the FW-190 A-4/A-5/A-6/A-7 don't get this system!

Edited September 18, 2013 by Superghostboy

[ImPeRaToR]

 

And thats the point why the FW-190 A-4/A-5/A-6/A-7 don't get this system!

There we go, now you said it yourself

 

Btw, if you didn't know wikipedia is not known to be the most reliable source for information

[JG4Helofly]

The problem is not the 190 or the La 5, it's the player. What people need to understand is that on dogfight server, people will most likely fly the best aircraft which is available on their side. Even with a realistic and historic plane set, the fights will never be historical, because everyone is flying Spitfire and 109 (in the case of clod) and not hurricane or the 110. Hardly realistic from a historical point of view. So there are two options left: fly offline or fly historicaly accurate online missions.

I am glad that the 190 will make it into the game. And I am sure that bos benefits from this plane from a financial pov.

[Peshka]

I am not the internet player but I think it will look like those servers will have all players in FW190

 

I have ask question in the past but I want to ask again please for no answer this question that I can see.

 

I hope for offline single person play campaugn will we see history or will I be fighting the not history airplanes?

I am worry the things I read of the game so to change to false history and no simulation of battle as it was happening.

 

I want to give my money for a good campaign as was the real history. Is this the way it will be?

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

777 said there will be no german Fightergroup/squadron wih Fw190 in carreermode. YOU (and perhaps your AI wingmen) are able to choose a Fw190 - but the rest of the unit is still flying 109.

So i guess, you will not meet other friendly 190 in the air or as a red pilot you will not meet any 190 at all in the air when flying carreer mode. At least that was my understanding.

 

For online play, having RoF abilities in mind, the only hope is, that Fw190s are very limited in available numbers in a mission. Anyway, i realy belive that a Bf109F-4 will be VERY compotent to deal the soviet aircraft :D

[Peshka]

Thank you for the answer you give.

I do say this is no good for making the history campaign.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

as long YOU will decide how historical "correct" it will be, by chossing a 190 or not, i dont see a proplem

as i said, there will be ni other 190s in the air - not when flying german and not when flying soviet.

Edited September 18, 2013 by III/JG53Frankyboy

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Horrible fuzz about a plane that was not even near Stalingrad at the time. Mission makers will just leave FW190A-3 out and no harm done to the "purists" The Bf109F-4 is more than capable on taking on it's adversaries if flown right. La-5 in BoS is not the later series model from LaLa land. The model in question should be the first series machine with wing tanks and all making it heavier than later models. If you read reports it was classified inferior to both F-4 and G-2 in climb, speed, acceleration. What is left? Basically a slightly faster radial engined LagG-3.

 

As closing comment, we sim players can not judge planes or claim anything as we do not die nor have the historical skill differences of that time. Armchair pilots with more flt hrs than any real life ww2 pilot had.

[FuriousMeow]

That's nice and all but I'm no armchair pilot. I'm a chair pilot, my chair has no arm rests.