Stalingrad, and why the Fw190 should be in the game.

[Cybermat47]

Is it just me, or is it a bit odd that we haven't seen one single picture of the battle of Stalingrad in the game yet (or am I just behind the times?)? Of course, if the devs are just making sure that it hits us hard the first time we see it, I have no complaints. Personally, I think the city should have small arms fire and tracers flashing across it constantly, even at night (ESPECIALLY at night), and when the player is close enough (i.e. crash landed inside the city), they should be able to hear the screams of the dying... I'm a sadistic bastard, I know.

 

Also, in regards to the Fw190 controversy... all we've seen of the game is outside the battle! The battle of Stalingrad, in my opinion, ended at the city limits. So having the Fw190 isn't that much of a stretch. Embrace your inner Butcher Bird!

[ImPeRaToR]

The still weren't anywhere near the southern front though From meory, JG54 was operating theirs at leningrad, JG51 was in the conversion process in poland and east prussia and those units of JG51 that had completed conversion where busy fighting in the rshev area.

SchlG 1 was equipped with Fw190 eventually, but this was after Stalingrad in preparation of Zitadelle.
 

 

 

no responsibility is taken for the correctness of this information

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

to make it short:

Fw190s were not active in the area of the BoS map.

[5./JG54_Eman]

The same happens with the LA-5, the developers explained it before, the reason why they decided to include that plane...

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

to my knowledge the La-5 was, actually........

[Crow]

[Livai]

According to my informations 10.09.1942 some La-5 was shot down by BF-109 (Graf & Grislawski A Pair of Aces ) during the Battle of Stalingrad. Its 1000% confirmed the La-5 over Stalingrad. 

But wit the FW-190 its a different story because just look here Source:http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/flugbew.htm Here you can found important Informations from German Military Archive. If you look there you cant found FW-190 from 13. September 1942 to 2. February 1943. And if look here Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_190_operational_history  the same. But I have found new German - Planes take a look at my thread! 

[FuriousMeow]

It's still about 7 months, maybe a couple more, till the actual release of the title. Premium members get alpha access, the title is far from complete.

 

 they should be able to hear the screams of the dying... I'm a sadistic bastard, I know.

 

This, however... that's not sadism, that's a mental illness.

[Original_Uwe]

It's still about 7 months, maybe a couple more, till the actual release of the title. Premium members get alpha access, the title is far from complete.

 

 

This, however... that's not sadism, that's a mental illness.

Absolutely. I don't care to see these things in game. The only ones that do are those who have led sheltered lives and never had to contemplate the sight of the true horror of the infantryman's daily existence, let alone their own mortality.

[Jaws2002]

Does poorman's foke wulf count?

 

60+ of them were there from September to January.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2013 by Jaws2002

[adonys]

Jaws, it should, mate

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

According to my informations 10.09.1942 some La-5 was shot down by BF-109 (Graf & Grislawski A Pair of Aces ) during the Battle of Stalingrad. Its 1000% confirmed the La-5 over Stalingrad.

You cannot confirm anything more than 100%. I am 1000% sure about that

[Cybermat47]

The still weren't anywhere near the southern front though

Awwww

Absolutely. I don't care to see these things in game. The only ones that do are those who have led sheltered lives and never had to contemplate the sight of the true horror of the infantryman's daily existence, let alone their own mortality.

Perhaps having those things in the game would help some of us actually realise how fortunate we are to NOT have to experience these things.

 

 

Edited by Zak

Personal insult, flaming.

[JG1_Pragr]

Of course the Fw190 shouldn't be in the BoS theater. Historically. But still is it the best option of how to sell premium edition to many people. Because many people love that plane.

 

From Il2:BoS point of view I see no problem with 190. In singleplayer there will be no Wurger probably (because of historical reasons). In MP? It will depend on the mission creators. Based on the RoF mission builder, they can include it, they can forbid it, and they even can limit their numbers if it will be allowed.

 

So from developers point of view it should be in the game (because increasing incomes) and from players point of view there is no problem with such solution (because it will be manageable by map designers). It's win win scenario.

[Cybermat47]

You know, you all make me SICK. You want a sugar coating over an actual historical event where people DIED. Or did you just think that this was all fiction? Or are you just too inhumane to try to understand what these people went through.

 

 

It's ironic, a 14 year old kid with autism calling you all inhumane, because that's what I've been treated like my entire life. And I actually thought that people might accept me if we shared similar interests. I guess not. You people dissapoint me. You really do.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Word...

[Blakhart]

 

It's ironic, a 14 year old kid with autism

 

0_o...

[FTC_Karaya]

 

Cybermat, this is a (combat) flight simulation, if you want to see people die in all sorts of brutal ways, hear them cry, moan & scream in agony then go ahead and play Red Orchestra 2. All this has very little value for IL-2 BoS...

 

As to the original question of wether the FW190 should be in: Not a FW190 jock myself but I dont mind it being in the sim, we will hopefully expand onto theatres that saw the 190 in force!

[DD_bongodriver]

I guess this is the proof needed as to why us adults should really watch our language on forums like these, that young man has obviously been corrupted by too much exposure to us old fogeys.

[SR-F_Winger]

Just cool down and relax folks. Its a flightsim and therefor (IMHO) no need for too detailed modeling of the actual battle down on the ground. Sure we need tanks and vehicles pounding each other and columns of supportive vehicles to bomb.

 

I personally am really happy the FW 190 is in game even if it may have seen very limited (if at all) service during the BOS. The LA5 however saw comparably little service. So both plaes are questionable to be implemented when it comes to historical accuracy. But we shouldnt forget that this project also needs to spill some money in the pockets of the devs so further expansions can be financed. And the most attractive things in Flightsims ARE the planes. And either ones are VERY attractive ones if you ask me. I am totally happy they will both be included.

 

At the end its down to the missioncreators to limit supply of certain airplanes in the custom missions to come.

 

Winger

Edited September 17, 2013 by VSG1_Winger

[JaMz]

Blimey..

 

Now that is how a thread gets porked.... "Wrong end of the stick me thinks"

[Zak]

It's still about 7 months, maybe a couple more, till the actual release of the title. Premium members get alpha access, the title is far from complete.

This, however... that's not sadism, that's a mental illness.

Let's avoid establishing diagnosis to each other, all right?

 

Grab a Pe-2 and relax, please, folks

 

[DD_bongodriver]

I'm with Jaws on this, the 190 is a bad choice, it's irrelevant to the theatre, it has been added simply to appease a strange hunger in sim communities for top axis machines, the I.A.R 80 would have been a much better wildcard entry, it's a gorgeous aircraft, much more interesting than a 190, it was actually there.

[Mac_Messer]

I guess this is the proof needed as to why us adults should really watch our language on forums like these, that young man has obviously been corrupted by too much exposure to us old fogeys.

Maybe too much Call of Duty.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

True the first series of La-5 entered battle and were funnily enough escorted by Yakovlev fighters due less than stellar performance shown compared to the "paper values". So no problem with La-5 at all. First series were slower, less climbing and far from nimble. TsAGI tells an overly optimistic speed of over 520km/h at SL where actual speeds were barely breaking the 500km/h with WEP tested by NII VVS. Nevertheless La-5 has it's place over Stalingrad. Fw190A-3 is a nice bonus

 

About showing battle. I think Falcon 4.0 made it fine, there are tracers and fire plus other effects making it look like an actual war is going on. So let's hope BoS makes at least some effort to make Stalingrad look like a fierce battlefield

[Bearcat]

OK this thread has taken a turn for the surreal. Lets get back on that yellowbrick road shall we. There will be no screams of the dieing other than perhaps pilots as it is modeled in IL2.... (I'm taking hits! Yaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!) so get of it and tone down the angst.

[dkoor]

Wait... so you are saying that there actually will be screaming pilots in this game?

[Zmaj76]

Ofcourse, screaming ppl is what all of us wanted in the first place (spec. me who experienced brutal war from the first hand)...I mean, air combat sims with prop planes are just a paravane, an agenda for our dark passions for screaming ppl which are closely connected with airplanes fighting in the skies of Stalingrad...

   

 

Really folks...why do you feed the trollie? Let him enjoy in "screams" and we can talk about historical appearance of Focke Wulfs over Stalingrad...

Edited September 17, 2013 by Tvrdi

[Recon]

Wait... so you are saying that there actually will be screaming pilots in this game?

 

I'll be the one screaming when I get shot down by a 190 in my Pe2  lol

[Zmaj76]

I'll be the one screaming when I get shot down by a 190 in my Pe2  lol

hihihi

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

you renember the screaming japanese pilots in IL2......the reason i never replaced the japanese language in the game.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

How about these comic strip style bubbles with Aaaaiieee!!! Aaaaarghh! etc

[leitmotiv]

Stalingrad, and why the Fw190 should be in the game?

 

Money money moooney               only reason for it

 

 

only fail is not adding Spit 5 or P-38 from start also 

Edited September 17, 2013 by Yaklover

[Mac_Messer]

Not nearly the same prize item like say a P40. Better than La5 at almost everything, more popular overall and a great bait for western markets.

 

Besides, I like flying against it.

[FlatSpinMan]

Just stopped into this thread out of idle curiosity. Wow - didn't see this coming.

 

Karaya - love that pic. Insensitive perhaps, but it fit most people's reaction to the thread most aptly, I think.

[5th-GIAP_Sytov]

to make it short:

Fw190s were not active in the area of the BoS map.

Do you have any hard data to support that claim or is that just your opinion ?  None of us were born back then so we can't make any solid answers to what was present and which a/c wasn't.    

[DD_bongodriver]

I don't believe there is any actual documented evidence that F-14 Tomcats were not present at Stallingrad

[ImPeRaToR]

Do you have any hard data to support that claim or is that just your opinion ?  None of us were born back then so we can't make any solid answers to what was present and which a/c wasn't.    

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1342-stalingrad-and-why-fw190-should-be-game/?do=findComment&comment=28233

 

the number of units operating Fw190s on the eastern front in 42-43 is pretty small so it is not too hard to figure out. Didn't really change in 43 and 44 if I am not mistaken, apart from a few Schlachtgruppen moving in from the southern front to join the fray.

Edited September 17, 2013 by ImPeRaToR

[Dakpilot]

Fortunately for those that weren't there some books and historic documents are left around and a few have researched this information. 

 

It has been discussed in a number of threads already, and seems 99% likely that no 190's were present, however any new info to "prove"

they were in fact at Stalingrad/BOS map area in the BOS game timeframe would be appreciated by all i am sure 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[ImPeRaToR]

Indeed

 

Btw, I'd like to point out that I am quite fond of the 190 myself, and it is imo reasonable enough to put it into BOS as 190s were active on the eastern front at that time.

What I am worried about, though this remains to be seen, is the impact the 190 will have on mp gameplay. As it seems to me both Bf109 will already have an edge against at least two of the Russian fighters, and the 190 might just dominate them all.
But we shall wait and see - I am sure exactly these things have been taken into consideration by the developers before they made the decision to include it so I guess we won't need to worry.

Edited September 17, 2013 by ImPeRaToR