plz even the teams

[Brano]

Well I guess it is this "fascination by evil" that drives folks towards anything with haken/balkenkreuz on it.Luftwaffe...yeah!Waffen-SS...yeah!Koenigs Tiger...yeah! I think they miss a lot but again,evil is fascinating

[DrDag]

S!

 

Another good reason for coops

 

+1

 

We need coops, I am still astonished that this has not been implemented. I have zero interest into dogfight servers. The eastern front with the smaller scaled encounters (compared to the western front) is perfect for small coop groups.

The best missions with "historical" plane number ratios I have played were coop dynamic campaigns, it is easier to be shot down by the AI. In PvP there is too much ego (and I don't exclude myself here) - so the call for balance is normally louder.

 

cheers,

Dag

[Valok]

Well I guess it is this "fascination by evil" that drives folks towards anything with haken/balkenkreuz on it.Luftwaffe...yeah!Waffen-SS...yeah!Koenigs Tiger...yeah! I think they miss a lot but again,evil is fascinating

You are joking right  ? Otherwise you are about to get some serious flak.

 

Personally speaking (I only play Axis 95% of the time in war games), I wouldn't classify the "evil side" as "fascinating". Performance aside, it is just that they look a hole goddamn better than the allied side (be it the uniforms/tanks/planes/whatever). That's what attracts me the most at least.

[BraveSirRobin]

With the undieing words of Napolen the III:

Less Q.Q moar Pew Pew.

Stop bitching like a girl. This Vulching-Thing is independent from the sides.

 

My post had nothing to do with vulching.  It was just a description of what happens on a server when the teams are stacked in favor of the Germans, which seems to happen a lot.  People who prefer to fly German should also be concerned about this, since flying around with no one to fight against is almost as boring as getting mauled in an inferior aircraft soon after taking off.

[Bearcat]

It has always been this way in combat flight simulation.

The lesson is that the planes that get kills the easiest are the planes that will get the most players, hence the popularity of late war scenarios.

 

In CFS 1 it was the Hurricaine..

 

Generally I would say No to autobalance. We have lived without it for more than a decade in IL 1946 as in other sims. I would argue that when handing over the sense of fairness from players to a server, people tend to stop thinking about what Is fair or not.. Cuz they don't have to. By constantly have manual balance of teams in mind, urging and commenting in chat, I would say that it is more likely that pilots behave in a fair manner.. Not only in regards to teambalance but also in other aspects of the game. As this is a server option however I can live with it on Syndiacate for now, as there are so few servers. When DS is released, we will all find the servers to our likings, not only in regards to teambalance but also other server settings... type of missions... And type of clientele.!!!

 

My experience from IL2 1942 dictates that gamers looking for a more involved and objective oriented missions, with hi difficulty settings, take team balance more seriously and choose team according to balance, whence people looking for a quick and fast airquake take the plane they want to fly, ignoring the balance aspect... in general!!!! Therefor servers of the first type don't really need such a setting, but the 2nd type would benefit of such a feature.

 

2 cents

 

+1 ... I usually don't fly German but I have no problem flying German for a while to balance things out. The problem is that some online fliers are just selfish. It is all about them. That is why folks hang out over bases and vulch, that's why people gravitate to the baddest most uber aircraft instead of flying something less stellar.  That and the fact that being shot down is just not fun. Especially if you can't even put upa decent fight.

 

S!

 

Thats EXACTLY what i think too!

 

From years of experience, i reach the same conclusion

 

People used to condemn COOP as a obsolete feature, because with these new tools you can add AI in Dog servers and triggers and a lot more........but

 

You still with a 20% max of players flying organized. And nobody care about ground targets, objectives and nothing. I recognize coops have their flaws.....but the advantages still interesting and actual like this topic showed up.

 

I flew ADW, but i found the same complains regarding those stuff plus the time zone (you can see a lot of "Empty US servers" bitching in this forum). I have US time....and the ADW was plenty of people during my working day and hell empty during the night. With coop system this issue was very very reduced.

 

Coops are the way to go..

[SYN_Jedders]

^{Funnily enough, in RoF we had a second server running co-op missions constantly. It got less than 5% the use of the dogfight server. Its not the answer to everything but it certaintly suits some peoples playing style.}

Edited December 10, 2014 by SYN_Jedders

[=LD=Penshoon]

Usually I don't have too much time to play in the evening, an hour or so at the most. Flying in the underpopulated team is great then, you'll find action much easier as you have more targets.

[von_Tom]

With all the furore about presets you'd imagine that any suggestion of something that would limit how a person plays the game would be shot down.  Auto-balance is one of those things.  It is also disconcerting to see how people who fly LW aircraft are getting labelled. 

 

I for one think it's great to have a planeset where the LW have an advantage, though in fact if all of the VVS stay down low that advantage is eroded.  It isn't always the plane anyway.  Get a bunch of folks in VVS aircraft working as a team and most LW pilots will be shot down if they're flying as individuals, and that is how most MP ends up.

 

I've had a blast with squad members on Syndicate and the DED servers - the way to go is co-ops in a MP environment, or online wars.  IMHO.

 

von Tom

[Sparrer]

S!

^{Funnily enough, in RoF we had a second server running co-op missions constantly. It got less than 5% the use of the dogfight server. Its not the answer to everything but it certaintly suits some peoples playing style.}

 

S!

But in il2 has a much more easy fmb to build coops.

Also, in online wars we had a mission generator that setup a mission in 10 seconds. But the most important, those were not random missions with ground targets like Bos campaign...they was linked to an entire war system and able to change the front, with many squads registered.

Much better than "Red destroyed 90% of targets----->Red wins the map-----> Map rotate" that we often see in 99% of the dog servers

If take a look in those times you barely saw coops in il2, but plenty of them in il2 online wars. I agree that them alone had very few players

[SYN_Jedders]

I know that. I wasn't comparing RoF co-ops to IL2 c-ops. I was suggesting that BoS co-ops might not be anywhere as popular as some might think given that RoF co-ops weren't used that much. Remember BoS will be using the same systems for co-ops as RoF did.

 

Anyhoo...maybe there will be more to come in the development of boS co-ops...but it will be a long way away.

[Sparrer]

S!

 

I for one think it's great to have a planeset where the LW have an advantage, though in fact if all of the VVS stay down low that advantage is eroded.  It isn't always the plane anyway.  Get a bunch of folks in VVS aircraft working as a team and most LW pilots will be shot down if they're flying as individuals, and that is how most MP ends up.

This is true....and more....it depends on mission objectives and group tatics. I agree that the current planeset is hard for the VVS players....but only in DOGFIGHTING. The current VVS planeset are very nice for ground targets, with Pe-2 and Il-2. In a objective based mission, the LW air superiority can mean almost nothing depending of squads tatics.

Taking it short: With current planeset, in dog servers which almost everybody plays as lonewolf: LW has advantage. In mission based servers(which we don't have) LW and VVS are pretty competitive.

[Y-29.Silky]

After a long flight of breaking my neck not to be surprised by the enemy I reach the most northern enemy airfield. 109's are taking off and a huge cloud hanging over their base. I see one or two, dive down and hit a Stuka during taxi, pull up and the shit hits the fan. More 109's under the big cloud. I hit one more 109's and he crash lands them calls me a vulching pilot.

 

Now every 109 pilot knows I'm there and hunting me like a dog. One makes a mistake and crashes behind me and I eventually get shot down a min or two later while running for my life.

 

 

 

For me a great fight for the 109's taking off and flying under the cloud I WAS VULCHING! Really?

 

Yes and No. You were attacking an enemy airfield, 109's who weren't parked and are obviously an immediate threat who can easily scramble to get off the ground, but strafing a taxiing Stuka in your Yak? That's where the vulching comes in.

 

The poor guys life expectancy is one flight as it is...

[SYN_Lt_Dan]

“Find the enemy and shoot him down. Anything else is nonsense”
- Captain Manfred von Richthofen (“The Red Baron”), 1917

 

"taxing,parked damaged or smoking if its in my sights its getting shot "

- Lt Dan-2014

[Y-29.Silky]

“Find the enemy and shoot him down. Anything else is nonsense”

- Captain Manfred von Richthofen (“The Red Baron”), 1917

 

"taxing,parked damaged or smoking if its in my sights its getting shot "

- Lt Dan-2014

 

Last time I checked, this is a video game where aircraft are infinitely replaced, unlike real life/war where it actually has an impact and matters.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Silky

[SYN_Lt_Dan]

 

[Mars27]

[SYN_Vorlander]

Next time I will take a bomb. Drop it and strafe the rest.

 

but strafing a taxiing Stuka in your Yak? lol

[SYN_Vorlander]

maybe put a DOME around airfields. The enemy can fly out of the DOME but you cant fly into the DOME to attack them. Could be a great MOD for all the bitching.

[vonLazan]

Well I guess it is this "fascination by evil"...

 

Then we would surely have even teams now wouldn't we?

[Y-29.Silky]

The 'DOME' is what attracts people to the airfields because you can track enemies like its modern radar on the map. I don't mind dying from a well placed bomb. But laugh all you guys want Dan and Mars, the Syndicate server has dropped to my last option because of the constant vulching, I'm not the only one who's growing tired of it. The consistency of it is the main problem.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Silky

[SYN_Jedders]

Don't worry Silky. Soon the dserver and ME will be released and you can rent a server, create the missions that suit your specifications and have the entire community enjoying your work. Until then, feel free to continue using our resources at no cost to you while continuously criticising all elements of them.

[=FI=Blue2]

HaHa, Brilliant, Per!    Love these guys - they are hilarious... and quite a metaphor too, huh?!  Ya nailed it.

Edited December 11, 2014 by =FI=Blue2

[Willy__]

 

 

I don't mind dying from a well placed bomb.

 

 

Got two parked Yaks with a 500kg bomb with the 190 the other day. It was hilarious seeing people trying to get out of there, as there was 4 parked planes, 1 managed to get away, 1 damage the plane trying to get away and two exploded. After that it was me running to the german side of the lines with a train of lags/yaks behind me. 

[Biffen]

I will only play with the plane I have some unlocks on, it's great to be pigeonholed for no reason what so ever. Great move devs, thanks!

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Then we would surely have even teams now wouldn't we?

You would think so. You know how that is, though... Only the Germans are the "bad guys."

 

Sad that people have to bring politics in to an already divided community, though... They're the Luftwaffe and still are to this day... Not the "Nazi Airforce."

Edited December 11, 2014 by FalkeEins

[N1SB.Jefu]

Well I guess it is this "fascination by evil" that drives folks towards anything with haken/balkenkreuz on it.Luftwaffe...yeah!Waffen-SS...yeah!Koenigs Tiger...yeah! I think they miss a lot but again,evil is fascinating

 

Here was me thinking I was playing the 'evil' Bolsheviks.

Edited December 11, 2014 by tehJefu

[von_Tom]

 

Biffen I'm not sure why you think the Devs are pigeonholing you. It's other folks who are pigeon holing you and me and everyone else who only want to fly for one side. In my case LW but I don't know what you fly.

 

Even it up and the LW will still have better team play from what I've seen, then the fight will move higher and then those flying VVS will complain that the LW are not turning on the deck.

 

Balance... No such thing on a DF server unless there's a heavy handed artificial constraint.

 

von Tom

[BraveSirRobin]

von_Tom is right.  If it's 30 LW to 10 VVS, don't bother trying to even it up.  Just keep flying your 109 until the VVS guys all get pissed off and leave the server.  Then fly around looking at the scenery.

[von_Tom]

 

Or to put it another way.

 

If you're 10 VVS v 30 LW, don't bother forming up and staying together with the possibility of shooting down small groups of LW fighters (the map being large so it's unlikely to run into all 30 at once).

 

Just leave the server and go and find somewhere that balances the sides but you may not be able to go with your squad mates.

 

von Tom

[BraveSirRobin]

There are ways to balance the sides without using auto-balance.

[FlatSpinMan]

I honestly prefer the LW birds because they just look so cool, but if I ever go online I fly LaGGs because it's so pathetic to join the team with overwhelming technical and numerical superiority.

I get that people are interested in or like one side more than the other, but isn't it more fun to make a contest of it?

[JG1_Pragr]

Well I guess it is this "fascination by evil" that drives folks towards anything with haken/balkenkreuz on it.Luftwaffe...yeah!Waffen-SS...yeah!Koenigs Tiger...yeah! I think they miss a lot but again,evil is fascinating

It's fun to speak about the "evil side" when compare WWII era German system with Soviet Union. Speaking in strict terms the Soviet system perished way more people than Nazi even if we would compare the same time scale. So we all shall be blame we are fascinated by evil, no matter the side we are flying

 

But change the subject.

[Lusekofte]

Ihave been on Syndicate server and  wanted to fly Russian, but the y where 28- 12 Germans, I had to choose German, this is the 3 time this week. 

So I do not think people prefer german I find it quite oposit, I like the Russian planes best

[312_Tygr]

Well I guess it is this "fascination by evil" that drives folks towards anything with haken/balkenkreuz on it.Luftwaffe...yeah!Waffen-SS...yeah!Koenigs Tiger...yeah! I think they miss a lot but again,evil is fascinating

 

Bullcrap. Majority of virtual pilots want to rack up kills, not get shot down, go to bed feeling awesome. What do you do in BoS to achieve that? Fly a Bf, that's what.

[N1SB.Jefu]

This isn't a game where numerical superiority can directly correlate to an overwhelming defeat, not unless the Germans are flying in enormous formations (which they are not). On a full server you can fly the length of the Volga and not see a single target so lets not pretend you're going to get blown out of the sky by a train of 5 or 6 Germans.

 

We need more of this.

 

Flying with a wingman is required at the very least to exponentially increase your odds of countering the LW superiority, which is largely due to them operating in 2s or 3s far more than the enthusiast Russian pilots. Sure you'll lose a 1 on 1 engagement with a 109 but this isn't IL-2: Duels of Stalingrad, stop expecting to be competitive in that situation. Flying solo against superior opposition warrants a boring lonely climb and an even more boring and lonely flame engulfed plummet into the ground.

 

The skill ceiling in this game is high, the variables which contribute to victory are many and complex. Team work is worth 10x more than superior numbers or mildly superior aircraft so stop complaining start practicing it.

Edited December 12, 2014 by N1SB.Jefu

[312_Tygr]

 A great deal of integrity will be lost if a LL plane such as the P40 or P39 is released as they wil become the must fly plane, Yaks/Laggs in their current form will be retired forever.

 

Did you ever read anything about P-40 and P-39? P-40 is a slow, fat target. It has good dive speed, good armament, but climbs poorly and is absolutely hopeless above 3000-4000 meters altitude. It turns decently, until it runs out of power, and then it's bye bye birdy. P-39, on the other hand, has good armament, is fast below 3000 meters, turns well - but has vicious stall, and is also hopeless above 3000 meters (no turbocharger, as opposed to its prototype). Not to mention no P-39s flew at Stalingrad. 

[N1SB.Jefu]

Did you ever read anything about P-40 and P-39? P-40 is a slow, fat target. It has good dive speed, good armament, but climbs poorly and is absolutely hopeless above 3000-4000 meters altitude. It turns decently, until it runs out of power, and then it's bye bye birdy. P-39, on the other hand, has good armament, is fast below 3000 meters, turns well - but has vicious stall, and is also hopeless above 3000 meters (no turbocharger, as opposed to its prototype). Not to mention no P-39s flew at Stalingrad. 

 

Are you saying that the LaGG-3/Yak-1 are supperior to those planes? I'm no expert on the period but I always got the impression that the VVS were abit chuffed receiving LL aircraft.

 

Much of what I read is of people complaining that we have unbalanced aircraft; I presume the modern day gamer will almost exclusively fly the most powerful aircraft available to them (and still probably complain).

Edited December 12, 2014 by N1SB.Jefu

[312_Tygr]

I'm saying that P-40  - which flew quite a bit around Stalingrad - has inferior climb, and anemic high altitude performance. Compared to it, LaGG-3 is a flying oxcart, or a brick... something like that. So I would rate P-40 better than LaGG-3, though it would still climb slower than LaGG (yeah I know, hard to believe it's possible). Should dive better though. However it will not be better overall than Yak-1. Most of P-40s good sides (spacious cockpit, good radio equipment, sturdy airframe) mean nothing in the sim. If it was up to me, I'd have an option of reducing P-40's weight (remove wing guns for B and C versions, pieces of armor, etc.) to make it climb better once it's in the game.

 

P-39 is another story altogether, fast, maneuverable, well armed (if you can hit anything with the 37mm cannon), but only under 3000m, and fairly impossible to recover from spin. Of course, Soviet pilots liked the good sides more than the bad sides, because usually they flew low, and, of course, were able to keep the plane from stalling in most situations. The problem is that we still don't know if it ever flew around Stalingrad, according to my sources most probably not. I'd rate P-39 better than Yak-1 (which is the best we have now), but worse than La-5F or FN (which we're not getting for Stalingrad anyway).

 

Anyway, back to the topic, I agree it's much better to have a good team, clear plan and sound tactics than better planes or bigger guns. I don't fly without my squadmates in MP, and we tend to create a mission (rather than just "let's climb to 5k meters and see what we come up against") and have a plan before flying. I do think that there should be some resource-based way of evening out the teams - better than "fly a bomber in and bring 6 fighters". 

[von_Tom]

 it's so pathetic to join the team with overwhelming technical and numerical superiority.

I get that people are interested in or like one side more than the other, but isn't it more fun to make a contest of it?

 

 

Hmmm what I do is pathetic.  I suppose I should not enjoy myself instead.

 

The VVS can make a contest of it by teamwork.  I have only ever seen that once (on Syndicate I think) where 6 or 7 La5s and Yaks bounced me and teammates in 5 or so 109s.  Result was 4 109s down and 2 VVS.

 

Let's see what happens when the FN or whatever turns up.  You'll just have the LW flying less competitive aircraft but working together more.  Weirdly that has been my experience on DF Servers in all flight sims - the LW works together, and others don't.  That's a gross generalisation of course because you have teamwork on some servers like the Storm of War server for CLOD etc.

 

 

Team work is worth 10x more than superior numbers or mildly superior aircraft so stop complaining start practicing it.

 

Yes.

 

Kudos to you Jefu - I hope your project works because it is much more fun/satisfying/rewarding (and some people don't figure this into the equation) to succeed against a competent and well organised enemy.

 

 

von Tom

[354thFG_Leifr]

Just fly, folks.

That's all there is to it.