Interesting from an outsider on the fence

[CorsairHundo]

I come in here to see what's new that will make me decide to invest $100

 

The sore subject of the unlocks has been met with some anger from the oringinal members from what I've read. I experienced the same thing with Iracing when they released their sim in 2008. The hardcore guys like me wanted the realism as close as possible to RL but in order to get their numbers higher they had to piss off a few (quite a few) hardcore racers off. Accommodate the non hardcore "gamer"

 

Their communication wasn't very good as their all programmers with very little customer satisfaction experience.

 

The biggest issue was/ is a lack of competition, as it is here. Iracing is founded by John Henry with deep pockets and we realized it's their ball and court and what other racing sims do we have to choose from??

 

I've read the forums in here about the unlocks and never saw anyone being vulgar or nasty. I read a reply from "Zax" and he didn't go into any detail, just "NO" it's not changing.

 

Then these comments below don't make me feel warm and fuzzy, very unprofessional IMO. I guess IL-2 BoS isn't hooked up with Yelp There's better ways to handle things and retail and gain new customers!

 

"Il-2 BoS

The difference is this kind of stuff from all of you is getting real old. Just because you paid for the sim does not mean that you can constantly create disruption and foment controversy and dissention on these boards. If you don't like the sim then GO AWAY.

 

Either suck it up and get over it or be gone."

[Vaxxtx]

My opinion aside from the game having more bad decisions than good, and then seeing the way this forum is run, I would stay away. Want a real look at the game from people, look at 3rd party forums.

Edited December 2, 2014 by SYN_Haashashin

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

Oh come on, the racing-simulation branch has some quite nice games. What about rFactor or rFactor 2? They got some really great Drivingmodels there.

[BraveSirRobin]

Their communication wasn't very good as their all programmers with very little customer satisfaction experience.

 

 

Their not the only ones who need too work on they're communication skillz.

[Streiff]

Apparently they don't listen to potential costumers either, who is on the fence, like you, because of the very feature (one of several) they refuse to remove.

 

I guess they don't have to. 

[Y-29.Silky]

My opinion aside from the game having more bad decisions than good, and then seeing the way this forum is run, I would stay away. Want a real look at the game from people, look at 3rd party forums.

 

Ban me BC, for giving my opnion.... I know you want to...

Where is the evidence? I've never seen anyone be banned for their opinion unless it contained a swear word every other word, and have only seen threads that criticize be locked after 150 posts, which by then, has turned into a personal circle jerk that gets no where. You want to see a bad forum, look at WT's..

[Sparrer]

S!

Same here. Go ahead and ban the all the "haters"...

Sadly, shutting our mouth up don't will make the game better. I'm losing my faith in this, absolutely
 

[Jason_Williams]

Hello Corsair,

 

Feel free to make your own conclusion, but there are many who enjoy the product already and those that don't like some of the design, but the fact remains we made a well-functioning flight-sim in a short amount of time. It includes a hardcore physical world with realistic combat and flight dynamics and we decided to offer a reward system for your ability to successfully complete missions. We see this as a way to offer a challenge and introduce some game elements to an otherwise standard simulation product. Some like it, some don't. We allow our users to critique our decisions as long as they are polite about it. 

 

You mention communication issues, well we put out 80+ Developer Blog entries and many Livestreams explaining exactly what we are doing and going to do with the development. We have been upfront about our plans and both myself in the USA and Zak in Russia (who generally speaks for the team there on the english forum) answer questions and share information on a regular basis. We each have several hundred posts talking to users on this forum. Everyone is pretty much aware of what our current plans are and what kind of schedule we are keeping.

 

We decided early on that this forum should remain civil and polite and our mods have taken their jobs seriously in keeping this forum from turning into total chaos. There is plenty of dissent as well as praise here on this forum, all we ask is to be civil. No one is perfect including us, but we try to keep things on an even keel and pretty organized. This genre and it's fans can get quite emotional and passionate and it sometimes makes forums a hard place to work for the team. 

 

Some users seem to think we treat our customers poorly, this is not the case. There is not a commercial sim team on this planet that is as communicative a we are and we have made many changes along the way to appease members of this forum. But sometimes, we make decisions some don't like. This happens with any PC game. Some continue to complain about decisions we made and the fact that we are sticking to our development plan that takes us through the end of the year. Some want us to make a complete U-turn before then and go another direction. That will not be happening and IF any changes occur they will be done after our current plan is complete. Zak has simply answered the question that has been posed many times and answered by us many times which is we are going to complete our current development plan for BOS and for our other products i.e ROF and Ilya Muromets. We continue to listen to our customers, watch sales, and watch other metrics we have at our disposal to judge success of this product.

 

We have accomplished what many other sim teams have failed to do over the years and that is to build what we said we were going to build. You may not like what we build, but we have reached our initial goal. Most simulation titles that work have a long lifespan and we hope this is just the beginning of a long journey. Don't let a handful of upset people or just a few short comments from us decide whether or not to buy this product. BOS is a lot of fun in the cockpit which is what we set out to make.

 

Jason

[SharpeXB]

BoS is the best WWII combat flight sim on the market today. It's the only one with actuve developer support and therefore future potential.

If you are a fan of this genre it is definitely a must-have and certainly worth the $59 or $99 depending on which version you get. Don't let something like the unlocks dissuade you, they're achieved quite easily in the SP campaign and maybe give you something challenging to achieve. All the aircraft in the version you buy are flyable for you, the planes themselves do not need to be unlocked. BoS is definitely worth buying at this stage. It's not in Beta or EA anymore and there are some good new features coming soon such as mission editor, Ju52 AI etc.

[Jason_Williams]

Someone please show me where this was said - 

 

"Il-2 BoS the difference is this kind of stuff from all of you is getting real old. Just because you paid for the sim does not mean that you can constantly create disruption and foment controversy and dissention on these boards. If you don't like the sim then GO AWAY.

Either suck it up and get over it or be gone." 

 

Jason

[Yakdriver]

Then these comments below don't make me feel warm and fuzzy, very unprofessional IMO. I guess IL-2 BoS isn't hooked up with Yelp There's better ways to handle things and retail and gain new customers!

 

"Il-2 BoS

The difference is this kind of stuff from all of you is getting real old. Just because you paid for the sim does not mean that you can constantly create disruption and foment controversy and dissention on these boards. If you don't like the sim then GO AWAY.

 

Either suck it up and get over it or be gone."

 

I understand what you want to say, or at least i think i do.

 

I would like to defend the person who did that by saying, if he is unprofessional, it is because he is unprofessional.

that person deals with such things as a volunteer, getting no pay, just the brown stuff that occasionally hits the fan.

He is himself a Fan, and has been around for some time.

 

On his comment, i can not do a lot but agree. but that's besides the point.

 

I would like to offer an analogy:

 

when you drive your car home.

and the Kids in the back keep nagging you "poppa, when are we home".

and you have no other place to go, because Your, your wife's, Your kid's "happy place" is home.

then what?

 

step out of the car? Let someone else deal with the "situation"? nobody will.

Kick the nagging kid out of the car? he tried that, and banned Bongodriver. but the guy is back.

 

Bottom line:

he does what he can with the best tools he's got.

 

A) What moderators do gets no discussion room here (rules you agreed on as you enetered)

B) Shoot the man a PM. he will respond in a very friendly, even if unprofessional manner.

 

cheers.

and welcome!

 

edit

at least he does a better job than i ever could.

i woulda banned half the people round here... hitting the Banhammer like the Heinkel drops SC-50's... bambambambambam...

...and the first diude who needed banning would've been my own awesome self.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Yakdriver

[Uufflakke]

Someone please show me where this was said - 

 

"Il-2 BoS the difference is this kind of stuff from all of you is getting real old. Just because you paid for the sim does not mean that you can constantly create disruption and foment controversy and dissention on these boards. If you don't like the sim then GO AWAY.

Either suck it up and get over it or be gone." 

 

Jason

 

 

I think it is related to this little piece of poetry:

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4044484/Banning_fest_on_BoS_forum

[Vaxxtx]

Its right here....http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/13251-why-not-let-all-modifications-unlocked-mp/

[Jason_Williams]

Ok that was made by a mod and not by a paid team member. I will speak to the moderator.

 

Jason

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I think it's just a paraphrase. I have seen members say this but not Dev's or Mod's. I've certainly felt this about some of the usual suspects in the BOS trashing society.

 

*edit - I stand corrected.

Edited December 2, 2014 by HerrMurf

[Vaxxtx]

I think it's just a paraphrase. I have seen members say this but not Dev's or Mod's. I've certainly felt this about some of the usual suspects in the BOS trashing society.

It was said by a mod. Sheesh its right there in the link.

[SYN_Per]

_{Have you got your refund yet Vaxxtx?}

[Uufflakke]

I think it's just a paraphrase. I have seen members say this but not Dev's or Mod's. I've certainly felt this about some of the usual suspects in the BOS trashing society.

 

Wrong.

Click on the link in Vaxxtx's comment to see it was a dev saying "Either suck it up and get over it or be gone."   + the rest and his banhammer.

[JtD]

... the usual suspects in the BOS trashing society...

I don't see how this conforms with the "civil and polite" concept Jason outlined above?

[Streiff]

Im sorry Jason, but you can say anything you want, in any fancy way you like, but there are more than "some" unhappy costumers.

 

Pretending its the same trolls all the time wont change facts. 

 

Maby you and the team feel you are right on track and are where you planned to be all along but that only means you saw it fit to keep certain aspects under wraps until after early access sales because you knew those very aspects would have lost you at least half of the sales. THATS what pissed of a substantial part of the core IL2 fan base and you all know it full well.

[SYN_Mike77]

And I agree with what that mod said.  There are about 10 people on here who have had a month long hissy fit and hijack thread after thread to continue their little temper tantrum over what is now well known to be settled policy.  Get over it or leave us alone!

[Vaxxtx]

_{Have you got your refund yet Vaxxtx?}

 

Nope, if I did, I would not be posting here.

 

Sidenote, read below.

 

I don't see how this conforms with the "civil and polite" concept Jason outlined above?

[Yakdriver]

And I agree with what that mod said.  There are about 10 people on here who have had a month long hissy fit and hijack thread after thread to continue their little temper tantrum over what is now well known to be settled policy.  Get over it or leave us alone!

Hungs n Kisses for that - because i do not need to say it myself... merely subscribe to your point of view.

[Freycinet]

Everything that Bearcat wrote makes absolute sense, good to see somebody in BoS team showing some common sense against the haters that keep disrupting the forums.

[Jason_Williams]

I've responded to the OP and I have spoken to the mod about what was said in a PM. Mods are volunteers, they are not perfect and they have their own opinions that are not necessarily the team's thoughts and feelings. Sometimes its hard to separate the work they do for us from their personal feelings.

 

I will take further steps to make sure the moderation is fair and polite.

 

This kind of thread only brings out the worst in the community so I am locking it.

 

Jason

[Bearcat]

Since I am the moderator in question on this I feel compelled to comment here.

 

For the record yes I said it.

 

Also for the record.. I meant be gone from the forums for a spell if all you have to contribute is negativity and the same well documented  complaints adnaseum. I am not a developer here. Everyone knows that and while there are some who still seem to insist that I am somehow "toeing the party line" or speaking on behalf of the team despite the many many posts I have made on other forums to the contrary.. Most of the folks who have known me for the 12+ years I have been involved with IL2 know that for better or worse I speak my own mind whether a moderator or just a community member.

 

Having said that .. I have nothing but respect for the majority of this community and this team team and what they have done with this sim regardless to my own, also very public statements of criticism that mirrors many of the complaints of many on some of the same issues. The difference is I have stated my opinions.. more than once but not every single chance I get.  I also am not taking the tactic of "complain till they change it". For me .. the fact that most of these issues have been addressed either with a yes, a no or a wait and see compels me and many others to take an "it is what it is.. and it ain't bad so let's see what it becomes" approach as opposed to the former "if you don't fix it I will make you fix it" by complaining about the same issues almost daily. For every person who thinks that the moderation is too heavy handed here there are others who say thank you for making this place better to come to.

 

To the OP...  don't look solely at any forum.. this one or a 3rd party forum. If you want to find out about the sim.. either read through the developer Diaries, download Rise of Flight for free and try it, because the engine for BoS is based on that one, or just buy the sim. Get the Standard Edition if you have reservations. It is a well made product that is not perfect but it is supported by a team that wants to make the best flight sim they can.There are bumps along the way and things that many do not like but there is more to like in Battle of Stalingrad than to not like. There is a lot to like.

 

For every person who frequents these boards and feels that they have not gotten their due with this sim and have made no bones whatsoever about it at every opportunity,  there are other community members here who have gone through the same motions as them and feel the same way that they do and are just as disappointed about some of the same things as myself and some of these more "vocal"posters.. but they have decided to take the better path and look at this glass as half full and still filling as opposed to half empty and just sitting on the table. To those who have PMd me over the past few weeks about some of this stuff.. thank you. I and the entire mod staff appreciate your support. I have no doubt whatsoever that we will get through this and at the end of the day there will be more people satisfied with most of BoS as opposed to being dissatisfied.

 

We shall surely see.