EXpert Mode in M.P question on maps.

[KoN_]

Please can we have a the small map to navergate with instead of the fullscreen one or a choise at least , as i feel that you fly with no outside view is a bit wired , just the other night i was flying ground attack missions and had to keep going into the full screen map to look for possible targets , on returning back to cockpit view i was covered in blood and dying , also a pet hate of mine  is no impact sounds on bullet hits .

[wellenbrecher]

It's a bit weird indeed that we have no good map outside the fullscreen one, considering RoF and everything.

So yeah, +1

[Y-29.Silky]

Please no! They already destroyed immersion as it is with the modern radar on the big map. It should be expert mode for a reason.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Silky

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Please no! They already destroyed immersion as it is with the modern radar on the big map. It should be expert mode for a reason.

 

I suppose that pilots had to fullscreen their maps during the war too than, no?

Edited December 3, 2014 by FalkeEins

[KoN_]

When flying for real you have your map attached to your knee , where you glance down , but also have a full cockpit view , when your driving your car , you don't open your map fully out and put it up against the windscreen so you can't see anything , lol ... Hope that makes sence ...the small map in ROF is very good , should use that on here.

[Y-29.Silky]

I suppose that pilots had to fullscreen their maps during the war too than, no?

Actually yes, they had little ones known as "Escape Maps", in case they were shot down. Whether Russian pilots had them, I don't know, but regardless I'd assume they were briefed with an even larger map before they took off to have a general idea of where to go and what to see, which in this games case, is shown when you pick an airfield. And then, using landmarks to navigate, after a few missions, you always know where you are. Then the Beacon on the Yak can finally be relvant.

When flying for real you have your map attached to your knee

This would be a cool feature!

[BlitzPig_EL]

Sometimes the "harder is more real" theory of flight simulation just goes too far, and honestly is mostly wrong in any case.

 

The guys that I have been hanging out with and gaming with for over a decade include a lot of real pilots, and I'm not talking Cessna 172s either.

 

Harriers, Jaguars, P3 Orions, DC 3s, vintage aircraft ranging from a Steaman with 450 bhp to a fair number of "golden age" racing planes, and not one of them says that "full real" is realistic at all.

 

Real pilots don't view the world through a small, rectangular port hole, like we do.   Would you even think of driving your car with all the windows taped over except for a small rectangle in front of you?  No.

 

So don't claim that having an easy to use map system destroys immersion.  That is nonsense, with a fair amount of hubris on the side.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Actually yes, they had little ones known as "Escape Maps", in case they were shot down. Whether Russian pilots had them, I don't know, but regardless I'd assume they were briefed with an even larger map before they took off to have a general idea of where to go and what to see, which in this games case, is shown when you pick an airfield. And then, using landmarks to navigate, after a few missions, you always know where you are. Then the Beacon on the Yak can finally be relvant.

 

A lot of flight leaders had been using knee boards for navigation since WWI. I don't fly Yaks - beacons make no difference to me and I'm sure the VVS were using knee boards too.

 

If I remember how reality works there typically isn't a need to fullscreen your knee board and nobody was talking about navigating while on foot after being shot down or navigating from a briefing room... 

 

A working map in the corner is a compromise. RoF's map worked great in that regard.

[SharpeXB]

Yes I think RoFs map is better done. Even in the "full" mode you can still see around the edges so it's easier to use while flying.

Of all the flight sims I've tried though, RoF and BoS have the best and most detailed maps. It really helps navigating.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

Of all the flight sims I've tried though, RoF and BoS have the best and most detailed maps. It really helps navigating.

 

I disagree entirely but there is no need to digress from Con's thread and pull your opinion of other flight sims in to this...

[GP*]

Sometimes the "harder is more real" theory of flight simulation just goes too far, and honestly is mostly wrong in any case.

 

The guys that I have been hanging out with and gaming with for over a decade include a lot of real pilots, and I'm not talking Cessna 172s either.

 

Harriers, Jaguars, P3 Orions, DC 3s, vintage aircraft ranging from a Steaman with 450 bhp to a fair number of "golden age" racing planes, and not one of them says that "full real" is realistic at all.

 

Real pilots don't view the world through a small, rectangular port hole, like we do.   Would you even think of driving your car with all the windows taped over except for a small rectangle in front of you?  No.

 

So don't claim that having an easy to use map system destroys immersion.  That is nonsense, with a fair amount of hubris on the side.

 

This needs to be quoted every single time someone implies that harder = more realistic.

[Sokol1]

> "implies that harder = more realistic."

 

And the inverse is not true?  More "realistic" = harder. Why those mentioned real pilots prefer "gamey" modes? Because they know that "realistic" is hard.  

 

Anyway other inconvenient for this full screen (O) map is that cause (at least for me) micro pauses... Give back the old and good il-2 kneeboard map. 

[Sparrer]

S!

 

I absolutely agree with a zoomable minimap.

The O map is very good, but he alone is worst than we had in il2.

The actual minimap is useless unless you flying with open icons. For full real navigation is a no go.

Please, devs, put the classical zoomable minimap and keep the O map, it will be an evolution....but how is now is a throwback

[KoN_]

I think we could have the option that if we want a full screen view O" key or the smaller right hand coner map M" key view tobe  on the servers would be great ,but with  no aircraft icons in Expert server . After all most flight sims have that option . im just trying to make things easy here , like my first post above , i was navergating looking for ground targets with the  full screen as i didnt have an option for the smaller map . why change some thing is it isnt broken ROF map is very good . thank you all for your input .

Edited December 3, 2014 by II./JG77_Con

[GP*]

> "implies that harder = more realistic."

 

And the inverse is not true? More "realistic" = harder. Why those mentioned real pilots prefer "gamey" modes? Because they know that "realistic" is hard.

The only realism I don't want is the stress of my life being on the line, the sore back from pulling Gs, nights sleeping out in the cold (arctic survival training is still fresh in my mind), the mental and physical exhaustion from flying every day, and long periods of time away from my wife and family.

 

The rest of the realism I'll take, so long as it's actually "real" and not just difficult.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Prefontaine

[Sokol1]

This pilot, or look at map, or look front, no way to put the map over "windscreen".

 

[Y-29.Silky]

This pilot, or look at map, or look front, no way to put the map over "windscreen".

 

Valid point here!

[Dakpilot]

I fully agree that a better minimap is a good idea, but the picture shows a pilot with a kneeboard, but just how is he supposed to look at it and still see out the windscreen?...using "O" as a quick glance to check a feature or position is fine..its only when you fixate on it that there will be problems, if you need to take a longer look use auto level.

In real life, navigating is all about situational awareness, pre planning and basically knowing where you are "going" at all times. If you become disorientated and have to concentrate on a kneeboard for any period of time you will get bounced. The successful Fighter pilot is one with a comprehensive and rounded skill set, navigation and a constant awareness of the "big" picture being an important part of that

 

fully agree that harder should not mean more realistic, but a fully featured zoomable mini map always in the pilots view is a crutch for laziness in a "maximum realism" (expert/full real setting)

In multi crew A/C this would (minimap) be a good compromise

 

perhaps the best compromise would be to have it as a server side option for mission designers to set

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

A zoom and resizeable minimap withou position indication is allright.

 

It's not nessecarily a big advantage but actually more realistic than using the fullscreen map.

 

Unlike ingame you can easily keep your flight attitude in reality even when looking at a map on your knees. Why?

 

Well humans got fairly good peripheral vision range. You can still recognize shades of the side and the front window - otherwise you need to place your map more properly.

 

Another point is physical forces, means Gs you feel when the plane starts rolling or pitching. You can still steer by feeling even without direct sight to the horizon/outside (ideally with some peripheral vision helping you to determine your directional going).

 

Back on topic you can increase your maps transparency by increasimg interface trabsparency in options. Don't know whether it also accounts to the fullscreen map.

[Yakdriver]

A zoom and resizeable minimap withou position indication is allright.

 

It's not nessecarily a big advantage but actually more realistic than using the fullscreen map.

 

Unlike ingame you can easily keep your flight attitude in reality even when looking at a map on your knees. Why?

 

Well humans got fairly good peripheral vision range. You can still recognize shades of the side and the front window - otherwise you need to place your map more properly.

 

Another point is physical forces, means Gs you feel when the plane starts rolling or pitching. You can still steer by feeling even without direct sight to the horizon/outside (ideally with some peripheral vision helping you to determine your directional going).

 

Back on topic you can increase your maps transparency by increasimg interface trabsparency in options. Don't know whether it also accounts to the fullscreen map.

 

The old way was awesome... if inflight you needed to have a glance at the map, you could have a small one pop up, took one corner of the screen.

One eye on the horizon to not fall out of the sky, one eye on the map and scroll around and zoom in and out.

 

the result was you stayed alive and had the feeling that you worked the map, still getting the basic info you needed.

 

The Fullscreen map, i hate that,

ALSO becausein complex maps, the entire Frontline elements need to be loaded and displayed which always causes a short freeze.

Most annoying.

 

I wish for a quarter screen map that i can position at the lower right corner, and that only loads the map, and keeps the map preloaded so there is no freeze.

Briefing could be included or not, but i don't need the briefings when i wanna navigate and look at the map.