Why so serious...?

[Bmezz]

I was wondering if there is any chance of revisiting the topic of turning the cockpit off for 'casual' gamers who need the extra headroom.  Every other Il2 series has had it and I fully expected it here as well.  I play a lot on my high end laptop, and it runs great---but I want to have fun, not break my neck!  The extra room would make it run MUCH smoother as well for guys like me (like when you turn the cockpit off in CLoD, its like the graphics card goes into hyperspace.

 

I had no idea this game was going to be designed for such hard core gamers and leave the rest to try and cope.  I see a lot of options in the menu, but none of them can be used on the campaigns?  So why even bother?

 

My main concern is that the market for this game is rather small right now, and unless we all have Track IR or the OR, its kind of a pain in the ass to play...

[vonPilsner]

I never fly with cockpit off, but I think including the option (along with option for online servers to disable it) would be good for the game.

[LAL_Luny]

I don't mind an extra easy mode as long as I dont have to use it...

 

You'd better try flying around on normal mode, and see whats useful in the cockpit, but its your choice

[Leaf]

Not for now, I think.

This simulator is watered-down enough as is. Let's give it a year to flesh it out, add the stuff it needs, fix the the stuff that needs to be fixed and let it mature a bit.
Even then I'd prioritise click-able cockpits over no cockpit at all.

[LAL_Luny]

Maybe I should have said 'go back to WT'

 

But why should we drop newcommers, even if they come with  'akward' questions ?

[VBF-12_Snake9]

Options are always good. 

 

Isn't that what we have been wanting for many things in this game?    Trim on axis    custom graphics    tri-monitor  (well they got one finally)    

[LukeFF]

Not gonna happen, folks.

[LAL_Luny]

Yeah

 

Im longtime harcore simmer, even if i had a long pause.

 

The niche is getting smaller and smaller, trying to open the game is not such of a bad thing imho, even if i find normal mode is already easy enough to learn, but it s hard to have an idea on it when you already know...

[Bearcat]

I was wondering if there is any chance of revisiting the topic of turning the cockpit off for 'casual' gamers who need the extra headroom.  Every other Il2 series has had it and I fully expected it here as well.  I play a lot on my high end laptop, and it runs great---but I want to have fun, not break my neck!  The extra room would make it run MUCH smoother as well for guys like me (like when you turn the cockpit off in CLoD, its like the graphics card goes into hyperspace.

 

I had no idea this game was going to be designed for such hard core gamers and leave the rest to try and cope.  I see a lot of options in the menu, but none of them can be used on the campaigns?  So why even bother?

 

My main concern is that the market for this game is rather small right now, and unless we all have Track IR or the OR, its kind of a pain in the ass to play...

 

 

I doubt it.. that was a huge debate in the beginning. IMO it should be a no brainer.

 

 

 

Maybe I should have said 'go back to WT'

 

But why should we drop newcommers, even if they come with  'akward' questions ?

 

 

It is a good thing you did not say that. Very good.

 

There is nothing "awkward" about that .. or wanting it..  When it first came up all the "hardcore aces" said the same thing.. there is WT for that... but as I have said more times than I can count. OPTION$ is the operative word for ultimate success in the flight sim business..

 

The template for this entire process is there for all to see in  all it's glory. Why no one since has chosen to follow it is just totally beyond my understanding.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Bmezz, that's a reasonable question.  It has been asked and answered before.  Many feel it's arcadish but so are unlocks.  The more options in a game, the more flexible and wider the audience.  This allows people to play the game the way they want.  Nothing wrong with that.

[LAL_Luny]

When i say 'awkward' maybe i meant 'already asked and answered' .

 

Its not that easy to be real clean, pointful, and nuanced in English

 

Edit : anyway the more options the more the players

Edited November 25, 2014 by FZG_Luny

[SharpeXB]

The cockpits are beautiful. I don't see the appeal of switching them off. Especially when you consider the work the Dev puts into creating them. It's realistic not being able to see through your own aircraft. If you have visibility problems without head tracking. Get it. Or just turn the labels on since they're visible through the canopy frames and such.

[Sparrer]

Despite i never fly this way, i support every feature that allow the game customizable

S!

 

The cockpits are beautiful. I don't see the appeal of switching them off. Especially when you consider the work the Dev puts into creating them. It's realistic not being able to see through your own aircraft. If you have visibility problems without head tracking. Get it. Or just turn the labels on since they're visible through the canopy frames and such.

 

 

Hit: Cockpit on

 

Problem solved

 

Hit Cockpit Off

 

Bmezz's problem solved

[LAL_Luny]

The more the merrier

[Sparrer]

But that also means we need customizeable difficulty settings for the server-

Exactly. This is even higher priority. This is essential

[LAL_Luny]

Thats why we need the Dserver first and the QMB back to point

 

Everyone should be free to play the way he wants, learn the basics and then  want to try it a bit harder (or not)....and so on

 

Not many players are able to fly a coop on Expert MP servers on the go, even less when they have to use a plane they don't know too well. I usually fly BF, but sometimes the IL2, sometimes the Yak 1, sometimes the JU87 I dont really mind as long as i have fun with mates..

 

Attracting new players is a real goal

Edited November 25, 2014 by FZG_Luny

[SharpeXB]

I think it was stated a long time ago this wasn't going to happen.

 

 

And this is the #1 problem. People are just too darn selfish.

Because YOU don't see why anyone would want to do that --- doesn't mean that someone that DOES want to have this OPTION available should be excluded.

 

Nobody is asking for NO-COCKPIT mode to be mandatory!

If it was allowed in the game as an OPTION then the server-operators could block it if it bothered people that others were gaining an unfair advantage.

Because it costs money and takes time. It's feature creep to keep adding things like this.

[DD_bongodriver]

 

 

Because it costs money and takes time. It's feature creep to keep adding things like this.

 

Presumably it cost time and money to take away graphic customisation too........worth it?

[Gambit21]

Anyway...

I think it's 'silly - this is an airplane sim and airplanes have cockpits.

That said it would wouldn't bother me if the option was available for those types - more support and all...

[LAL_Luny]

"My freedom stops where the others' begins" J.S.Mill

 

(freely retranslated from french)

Edited November 25, 2014 by FZG_Luny

[3instein]

Yep why not, great idea, me? I'm just waiting for "Fly by mouse" to be implemented TBH, then we will be halfway there.

 

Mick.

[LAL_Luny]

And im still waiting for no icons at all on experts servers..

[MiloMorai]

And im still waiting for no icons at all on experts servers..

 

There should be no icons, period, for the immersion.

[BlitzPig_EL]

There is nothing "awkward" about that .. or wanting it..  When it first came up all the "hardcore aces" said the same thing.. there is WT for that... but as I have said more times than I can count. OPTION$ is the operative word for ultimate success in the flight sim business..

 

The template for this entire process is there for all to see in  all it's glory. Why no one since has chosen to follow it is just totally beyond my understanding.

 

I agree with you 100% Bearcat.

 

I don't understand why people are so uptight about having a large, diverse, player base.

 

Who cares if someone want's to set up a sever with "arcade" settings, and it is populated by large numbers of like minded players?   Why is this seen as such a bad thing?

 

The more people that buy the sim the better.  That means we all will get more of the toys we want, and the developer will be able to carry on for a long time making the future better and better.

 

It seems that basic business sense is a rare commodity these days.

[falstaff]

ElAurens said:

 

>>I don't understand why people are so uptight about having a large, diverse, player base.<<

 

Because some may feel it makes their invested/specialist knowledge and time spent playing redundant. Perhaps they also feel it relegates their real-world pilot knowledge into the backround...ands time spent mastering unlocks...or endless reading of arcane source materials of real-world flight-statistics etc.

 

It doesn't really matter, provided there is a bone of contention, a point of dispute...

 

And so it goes....

[SharpeXB]

Having a feature like invisible plane mode affects the credibility of the sim as a realistic game. It doesn't belong in a product like BoS. It's a waste of the developers efforts to include it because that demographic is going to lean towards games like War Thunder or World of Planes which have more quantity but less sophisticated content.

Also the more advanced flight modeling in BoS would make the aircraft uncontrollable for players who are unable to "see" and react to their own aircraft.

[Gambit21]

I see a thread of reasonable posts expressing different opinions.

No reason to try and turn the thread into something else I'm thinking.

[Bearcat]

The cockpits are beautiful. I don't see the appeal of switching them off. Especially when you consider the work the Dev puts into creating them. It's realistic not being able to see through your own aircraft. If you have visibility problems without head tracking. Get it. Or just turn the labels on since they're visible through the canopy frames and such.

 

You may not but someone will.

 

 

And this is the #1 problem. People are just too darn selfish.

Because YOU don't see why anyone would want to do that --- doesn't mean that someone that DOES want to have this OPTION available should be excluded.

 

Nobody is asking for NO-COCKPIT mode to be mandatory!

If it was allowed in the game as an OPTION then the server-operators could block it if it bothered people that others were gaining an unfair advantage.

 

+1Exactly like it is done in IL2. IL2 has options galore.. and you can go on HL anynight and see servers with very diverse settings.

 

But that also means we need customizeable difficulty settings for the server-

if the glass cockpit comes, and i am forced to play with these "arcade players"  [say what you really feel, dude] on hardcore ranked servers, imma take a big dump on BoS.

 

I came here for the cockpits and the immersion.

so if that is allowed, bring BACK the custom difficulty settings that were CUT OUT.

 

[fuming]

 

Well DUUUUHHHH Ya think?!

 

 

Having a feature like invisible plane mode affects the credibility of the sim as a realistic game. It doesn't belong in a product like BoS. It's a waste of the developers efforts to include it because that demographic is going to lean towards games like War Thunder or World of Planes which have more quantity but less sophisticated content.

Also the more advanced flight modeling in BoS would make the aircraft uncontrollable for players who are unable to "see" and react to their own aircraft.

 

How? As long as the other more realistic options are there. That argument just does not hold water. IL2 had pop up balloons and you could fly it with unlimited ammo, never crash and go from an open pit with full icons and arrows and radar to white knuckle locked in the pit head on a swivel, check those temps and don't black out goodness.. and for a while there it was the only thing that the "purists" considered a real WWII sim.  Nothing else came close. None of the MMOG offerings and certainly nothing from MS... and some of these options are just basic stuff. That was one reason why it was so successful. You could go from a total arcade noob to as real as you can get in the sim.. all in the same product.

 

That's how you build a fan base.

 

I agree with you 100% Bearcat.

 

I don't understand why people are so uptight about having a large, diverse, player base.

Who cares if someone want's to set up a sever with "arcade" settings, and it is populated by large numbers of like minded players?   Why is this seen as such a bad thing?

 

The more people that buy the sim the better.  That means we all will get more of the toys we want, and the developer will be able to carry on for a long time making the future better and better.

It seems that basic business sense is a rare commodity these days.

 

It would seem so... As I said the template is there for all to see and everyone since 1CMG has bucked that template in one way or another.. sometimes in several ways.

 

This is why I have come to the conclusions that

1. You have to take each largely sim on it's own strengths, accepting it's weaknesses for what they are.
2. I will also be flying in IL2 at least for the next few years. Even if it is just offline. It is the one product that offers me the most options in one product even if it is dated.
3. The next widely acceptable flight sim, whoever makes it, if they follow the formula, will blow all of it's predecessors away.. including BoS, CoD, DCS and Wop/WT.

Lets keep the personal comments down gents...

[SharpeXB]

Compared with sims in the past, today's 3D cockpits are a vastly more work to create. I read the pits in Cliffs of Dover took an entire man-year worth of modeling work. Given all that investment I can't see a developer then adding a feature which takes this rich amount of content away from the player leaving them less to appreciate in the game. It's counterproductive. You want the player to see and appreciate the work that went into the game every time they play it. The invisible plane mode is also a legacy from the days when flight sims were played on 11" 4:3 monitors without head tracking. In today's more immersive and realistic products I just can't see how this has any appeal. And it is not needed in any case since the labels effectively make the cockpit transparent.

Edited November 26, 2014 by SharpeXB

[SharpeXB]

IL2 has options galore.. and you can go on HL anynight and see servers with very diverse settings

Having too many difficulty settings is just the kiss of death for flight sim multiplayer. It takes the very few people who are ever online and splits them up into a dozen servers with 3 people on each one. Tonight there were only 11 people on BoS and all on the Normal server.

Edited November 26, 2014 by SharpeXB

[Vaxxtx]

Having a feature like invisible plane mode affects the credibility of the sim as a realistic game. It doesn't belong in a product like BoS. It's a waste of the developers efforts to include it because that demographic is going to lean towards games like War Thunder or World of Planes which have more quantity but less sophisticated content.

Also the more advanced flight modeling in BoS would make the aircraft uncontrollable for players who are unable to "see" and react to their own aircraft.

But XP points, unlocks, 3 bomber formations, enemy spawn points, no historic squad markings, and pilot levels are ok.

 

This made me laugh. Thank you.

[Y-29.Silky]

 

I had no idea this game was going to be designed for such hard core gamers

 

This game has plenty of options to make it very easy. You can have all the enemy labels, aim assist, no turbulance, no wind factor, no stall.. The non-hardcore gamers have everything to make their life easy, even that circle that flies in front of the enemy like in War Thunder arcade mode. Why not just enjoy the very well done cockpits? And in fact, the community has shrunk because they chased a lot of the hardcore simmers away..

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Regardless of the hate for this kind of thing by the hard core having it would oonly serve to enrich the game and bring more players. What we want is more people entering the game and building their skills up so they can play harder game modes but there has to be a line with how arcade like elements are progressed, for eexample we defo don't want it to the point it is an arcade game only for some people. What it should be is a variety of server modes that encourages the transition to harder modes. I have too many friends that want to learn Sims but get put off because of the lack of learning curve

Edited November 26, 2014 by AeroAce

[DrDag]

Has been said already, the more customising options the better.

 

Online: server settings should dictate what is allowed and what not

Offline: customise the campaign as you want

 

Gamer communities are diverse no problem to cater that fact as long as options stay OPTIONAL.

 

On that note, please allow finally 3rd person view in the campaign. I love watching flybys of my plane during the mission.

Edited November 26, 2014 by DrDag

[Sokol1]

Was added "plasma and X-ray guns" in some CFS,  but has not done much success ... 

[SharpeXB]

But XP points, unlocks, 3 bomber formations, enemy spawn points, no historic squad markings, and pilot levels are ok.

 

This made me laugh. Thank you.

Invisible plane mode is way worse than unlocks

 

Look at Rise of Flight which BoS is based upon. I can't imagine anything more ridiculous than RoF with invisible planes. What would a WWI "HUD" look like?

 

Bottom line:

1. The Developers already said this feature won't happen.

 

2. It's not needed since labels already provide the same gameplay aid as a transparent cockpit.

Edited November 26, 2014 by SharpeXB

[Sparrer]

I started to fly flight simulators by mouse...

Then i liked, and only then, i bought a joystick

It was 16 years ago, then i played almost every sim that showed up. I probably be called now by "hardcore"

Maybe, if i must play with expensive equipments (like in my country) only, i could never even touch a flight simulator



I don't think customizable settings splits them up, but this single plane selling plans will. Good servers join everyone up

[SharpeXB]

Regardless of the hate for this kind of thing by the hard core having it would oonly serve to enrich the game and bring more players. What we want is more people entering the game and building their skills up so they can play harder game modes but there has to be a line with how arcade like elements are progressed, for eexample we defo don't want it to the point it is an arcade game only for some people. What it should be is a variety of server modes that encourages the transition to harder modes. I have too many friends that want to learn Sims but get put off because of the lack of learning curve

Honestly I think many flight sim players never advance to higher difficulty although that sounds reasonable. They remain addicted to whatever game aids they latch on to and won't want to play without them. Just look at this issue here. If people "graduated" from invisible plane mode and advanced they wouldn't keep asking for this feature for decades. And Wonder Woman plane is not a game play aid that helps beginners like labels or auto CEM. It would actually make handling the aircraft much more difficult because they're without any visual reference to what they're doing. I sometimes even have trouble if I'm zoomed in fully and can't even see a canopy frame. It's easy to lose reactions that way.

[Vaxxtx]

Having a feature like invisible plane mode affects the credibility of the sim as a realistic game. It doesn't belong in a product like BoS.

 

 

Invisible plane mode is way worse than unlocks

 

Look at Rise of Flight which BoS is based upon. I can't imagine anything more ridiculous than RoF with invisible planes. What would a WWI "HUD" look like?

 

Bottom line:

1. The Developers already said this feature won't happen.

 

2. It's not needed since labels already provide the same gameplay aid as a transparent cockpit.

Do you not see the conflicting statements in the underlined above?

 

Its a matter of opinion. Invisible planes is just as arcadey and un-realistic as the rest that BoS offers that I mentioned. I see no difference.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

No way! Really?

 

How dare they play the game the way they want to! We must force them to play the game that we enjoy and not the one that they enjoy!

 

Or we could just stone them.

I'm in tears