Been Playing with Skins and Skin Viewer (Alpha)

[Sparrer]

S!

Could someone please explain how skins in rof Works comparing with il2? What the diferences? Thanks

Btw very happy skins will be implemented soon...wtg!

[Mabroc]

The very first Il-2 had a very good marking system, not perfect but close to it. With the free third party MAT MANAGER it was almost perfect. Other SIM called STRIKE FIGHTER was even better to get decals an custom markings everywhere. Something like that was possible 13 years ago.

And in multiplayer getting to download 60 custom full HD skins is not fun at all same if someone make a historical campaign down the road hundreds of skins (one for each aircraft with only a different number for each squadron) instead of a dozen with only different decals each.

A system like the Old 1946 but with more options like those provided by MAT MANAGER (for example different kinds of red star, weathered numbers or fresh from paint garage, Russian numbers in different style, ETC) should be attainable and even the art files from the Old game could be used and those from MAT MANAGER asking for permission to the author off course. Or ask the community for help to make new ones, if the art files are keep on the open in the game many people would start to tinker with them anyway.

It's not the first thing next to add or soon but should be on the roadmap.

 

But if they don't still figure it out how to make a quick system for changing names on multiplayer.....I will take a seat for waiting

[smink1701]

Could someone explain what "decals" mean?

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

Could someone explain what "decals" mean?

Decals are objects putting on Cars or Planes after the painting. What we mean are Squadron Signs like the Chevron or Double-Chevron or the Numbers. Or the Geschwadersigns for example.

[senseispcc]

Could someone explain what "decals" mean?

It is a model builder term and they are little painted pieces of paper that are transferred to the model by being put into water and stick to the model once dry and often coated with varnish.  

 

[Jaws2002]

Could someone explain what "decals" mean?

Using decals reduces immensely the number of skins are used in game, because you don't need to make a new skin for every plane in a unit, when you can use the same skin and only change the numbers from plane to plane. It helps mission/career builders a lot and it is also heavily used online, by squads. They all can use a squadron skin and then every player uses his own number. We used to fly with the same numbers all the time, so in full real server, I could easily identify my squadies.

Another huge plus is that markings are handled by the game and not painted on skins. You can then use captured planes in missions without flying around with the wrong markings, just because you want to fly a certain plane.

It takes a little work to implement, but once implemented it makes a huge difference.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Jaws2002

[A-E-Hartmann]

Using decals reduces immensely the number of skins are used in game, because you don't need to make a new skin for every plane in a unit, when you can use the same skin and only change the numbers from plane to plane. It helps mission/career builders a lot and it is also heavily used online, by squads. They all can use a squadron skin and then every player uses his own number. We used to fly with the same numbers all the time, so in full real server, I could easily identify my squadies.

Another huge plus is that markings are handled by the game and not painted on skins. You can then use captured planes in missions without flying around with the wrong markings, just because you want to fly a certain plane.

It takes a little work to implement, but once implemented it makes a huge difference.

Very good description .  

[Yakdriver]

Oh, settle down.  Zero concessions.  They're just getting started.  Can you imagine being a developer on this project? 

they should kick the sales people overboard...

I would bet you a fiver, not all the devs are being  happy to make the changes that are asked from them, because a part of the team actually gives a damn and sees through the Bee-Ess.

 

From my experience, when i was looking to get something done, i was always better off asking a technician or a programmer instead of asking a marketing person.

One dude wants to see a working solution at all costs, the other wants to fill his pockets at all costs.

the focus is totally different...

Edited November 23, 2014 by Hawker_Typhoon

[avlSteve]

they should kick the sales people overboard...

I would bet you a fiver, not all the devs are being  happy to make the changes that are asked from them, because a part of the team actually gives a damn and sees through the Bee-Ess.

 

From my experience, when i was looking to get something done, i was always better off asking a technician or a programmer instead of asking a marketing person.

One dude wants to see a working solution at all costs, the other wants to fill his pockets at all costs.

the focus is totally different...

 

Yeah, as a developer, I have a skewed view.  The business team will have dev sawing down a mature white oak with a spork to make pulp in order to make thin sheets of a product of wood, when what they really needed was to fill the empty printer tray with paper.  I'm actually pissed at myself that I can't, single handedly, produce the flight sim I desire.

 

I still can't help but feel they're trying to do the best they know how.  Maybe it's time to rethink the whole thing.

Edited November 23, 2014 by avlSteve

[Yakdriver]

 

 

Maybe it's time to rethink the whole thing.

that's what i meant by "kick the sales people overboard"

:-P
 

[avlSteve]

that's what i meant by "kick the sales people overboard"

 

:-P

 

 

Then you have the issue of sales is in charge of the budget, and dev is overhead.

Edited November 23, 2014 by avlSteve

[Yakdriver]

but only if the option to keep the project going is not ... ano option, dev is stopped and the product milked best they can?

I eman with no new content, no future sales.
and that is nothing that can be hidden for a long time - even now the community wants to see a roadmap?

[[KWN]T-oddball]

Yeah, as a developer, I have a skewed view.  The business team will have dev sawing down a mature white oak with a spork to make pulp in order to make thin sheets of a product of wood, when what they really needed was to fill the empty printer tray with paper.  I'm actually pissed at myself that I can't, single handedly, produce the flight sim I desire.

 

I still can't help but feel they're trying to do the best they know how.  Maybe it's time to rethink the whole thing.

 

 

 

they should kick the sales people overboard...

I would bet you a fiver, not all the devs are being  happy to make the changes that are asked from them, because a part of the team actually gives a damn and sees through the Bee-Ess.

 

From my experience, when i was looking to get something done, i was always better off asking a technician or a programmer instead of asking a marketing person.

One dude wants to see a working solution at all costs, the other wants to fill his pockets at all costs.

the focus is totally different...

 

1C is the reason CLoD was pushed out the door before it was ready, 777 is a subsidiary of 1C and even though Jason is CEO of 777 1C is still calling the shot's hence the reason Jason said he has no power over what happens in the Russian ($12 dollar version) market.

 

Gentlemen keep your hopes high and your expectations low this whole venture is about money....it just happens to wear the IL-2 tag and have planes in it.

[Mabroc]

About Decals:

The old game had very "plastic" decals over the planes, too shiny, for example:

But MAT MANAGER corrected those, with a lot of work of it's author:

[johncage]

i have no idea why you think problems in the old game are going to carry over to bos that is on a completely different engine, but ok...

 

matte manager also made the shiny parts dull as well. it's basically just messing with specularity values. what needs to be changed is the layer corresponding to specularity. i suspect it's like the rof system. one texture for normal mapping, and one texture containing specular layer, occlusion, and diffuse.

[Yakdriver]

 

 

Gentlemen keep your hopes high and your expectations low this whole venture is about money....it just happens to wear the IL-2 tag and have planes in it.

therefor it better still have more planes and better features in them, or our collective wallet (or lack tehrof) will have a field day.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

What sort of level requirement will there be to utilize custom skins?

 

Gentlemen keep your hopes high and your expectations low this whole venture is about money....it just happens to wear the IL-2 tag and have planes in it.

Surprise of the century: Game developer wants money for making video games.

[SharpeXB]

1C is the reason CLoD was pushed out the door before it was ready,

Yeah... "Pushed" out the door... after 7 years! Please don't use Cliffs of Dover as a relevant example for anything except as an example of what not to do.

Game developer wants money for making video games.

Surprise! People need to be paid for their work and stay in business. Otherwise there will be no games for us.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Yeah... "Pushed" out the door... after 7 years! Please don't use Cliffs of Dover as a relevant example for anything except as an example of what not to do.

To be devil's advocate, it's a great example, IMO. After all 7 years should be more than enough time.

[Jason_Williams]

Speak about the topic at hand or I'll close it. I'm just showing the community what having such a versatile tool can do for displaying your skin work. No need to go off the rails.

 

Jason 

[Gambit21]

I miss skinning for the old IL2 - good times. I doubt I'll have time anymore.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Speak about the topic at hand or I'll close it. I'm just showing the community what having such a versatile tool can do for displaying your skin work. No need to go off the rails.

 

Jason

Which I had a question about. Don't know if you noticed or not. Given that we have to unlock skins as is, can we expect some kind of requirement to enable usage of custom skins?

[LizLemon]

Speak about the topic at hand or I'll close it. I'm just showing the community what having such a versatile tool can do for displaying your skin work. No need to go off the rails.

 

Jason

I'll ask again since maybe you didn't see my other post.

 

Have you fixed the skin bug from rof?

[SYN_Jedders]

I'll ask again since maybe you didn't see my other post.

Have you fixed the skin bug from rof?

You have already been asked to clarify...

[LizLemon]

You have already been asked to clarify...

Which it was. See end of page one.

[SYN_Jedders]

Oh, the thing where if you turn to look at an aircraft beside you the skin 'loads itself' again?...

 

I don't think it's a bug. I think it was designed that way. Something to do with holding them in memory or some such. It's definitely in BoS aswell. Ugly as hell and a rather clunky way of doing it imho. That's why Im not getting my knickers in a twist about skins in BoS. I never use any but the default ones in RoF or BoS...saves loads of hard drive space and I dont get the skin switching thing.

[[KWN]T-oddball]

Oh, the thing where if you turn to look at an aircraft beside you the skin 'loads itself' again?...

 

I don't think it's a bug. I think it was designed that way. Something to do with holding them in memory or some such. It's definitely in BoS aswell. Ugly as hell and a rather clunky way of doing it imho. That's why Im not getting my knickers in a twist about skins in BoS. I never use any but the default ones in RoF or BoS...saves loads of hard drive space and I dont get the skin switching thing.

 

I have not seen this yet but it does sound like a major problem in terms of skins overall....if it is ugly as you say i don't see a lot of people making skins if no one is going to use them

[Jason_Williams]

Our skins have no bugs. What LL is complaining about (I guess) is how our system optimizes texture memory by only drawing skins on planes that are within view. Sometimes, not all the time, and I haven't looked lately, you can choose to look at an external shot of a plane and if the plane happens to have a custom skin it may take a short second to appear. 

 

Jason

[Feathered_IV]

I think there is a mod for RoF that takes care of that. It certainly works for the on again, off again smoke and other effects. I'll have to see if it does the same for the skins.

[TG-55Panthercules]

Our skins have no bugs. What LL is complaining about (I guess) is how our system optimizes texture memory by only drawing skins on planes that are within view. Sometimes, not all the time, and I haven't looked lately, you can choose to look at an external shot of a plane and if the plane happens to have a custom skin it may take a short second to appear. 

 

Jason

In RoF this happens a lot when the mission is starting - if you look to your left/right from your cockpit at your AI flight buddies, you will almost always see them wearing the default skins momentarily, and then their custom skins magically appear.  Rather annoying and immersion-killing, to be sure.  I have not noticed this happening much if at all during the actual missions, so I'm not sure if maybe it's a one-time thing or if it happens all the time and I'm just not usually looking in the right direction during the split-second it takes to display the correct skin.  It would certainly be nice if this "optimization" could be tweaked so as to not be so noticeable.  I also wonder how this might work (or look) differently with BoS compared to RoF, since closing speeds in the former are so much higher and the time you have to look at the plane/skin as it approaches would probably be somewhat less in BoS.

 

While I've thoroughly enjoyed the way RoF allows us to create and use all those wonderful historical skins (and how virtual squads can create and use their own skins), given the numbers of skins (1000s) that have been created for RoF and these sorts of "optimization" considerations, it does make me wonder whether maybe more consideration should be given to having the option of using a "decal" type system so that it would be possible to use 10 or 20 or so numbered variations on the same skin without needing that many virtually-identical skins that have to be treated as that many separate, full-blown custom skins.  I wouldn't want a decal system to replace/eliminate the ability to create the truly custom skins, but having the option to use that sort of "decal" system would seem to have some potential benefits.  I know the devs have decided against using such a decal system, at least for now, but maybe it's something worth reconsidering at some point.

[Jason_Williams]

This thread was meant to give a peek at our skin viewer and how easy it is to create custom skins for BOS, not a discussion about decals and supposed bugs that are non-bugs. No need to go any further.

 

Jason