MP latency and lag

[sturmkraehe]

I frequently have the issue that apparantly the image that I see online does not exactly correspond with what happens around me and seems to lag behind the actual events.

 

For instance: I get damage on a plane and only THEN see the tracers of my pursuer. To make it clear: This happens when I observe the enemy on my 6. 

 

Another example: An enemy follows me in a turn but in order to score hits his nose should point a tad bit before me. Yet I see his straight front or even his nose pointing behind me. He still manages to score hits. I only can explane this by some strange lag between what shows on my screen and what happens. 

 

Is there anything I can do on my side because apparently dogfighting is not possible in this manner.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

I see same issue, so not sure what their doing about it.

[kiershar]

Yup same thing for me. This is what happens when you are far from europe, you get neglected and the servers don't work properly for you. Strangely enough, everything worked better before release. Noawadays it's unplayable lag fest with slow-motion when there's too much people on the server, people jumps around when you shoot at them and you get booted every 10 min.

[sturmkraehe]

I am from Europe and yet have this issue. The pings seem fine (about 50) but still I often have this issue.

[III/JG11_Tiger]

good ping does not necessarily give good experience unfortunately, we in Australia often have this issue then again I can play ROF on euro servers without many problems, the usual one you getr is being hit in a turn fight when it looks as if you are clear, we have to just get used to it.

 

Dserver will help with this then we may see some servers on our side of the world, annoying that none were set up for the Asia region really.

[LizLemon]

Same issue here but I'm in the US. My ping in bos is 200+ on eruo servers, quite a bit higher then my ping in other games when on euro servers.

 

The excessive lag compensation somewhat hides it.

[Willy__]

I have that problem too. Dont know how, but the last 2 LA5 that I accidentaly rammed continued to fly, like nothing happened, while my plane broke into pieces. At that time I thought it was a bug, but now, blaming on the ping/latency makes much more sense (besides my poor skill of flying ).

Edited November 21, 2014 by istruba

[sturmkraehe]

I have to say that the latency problem that I experience in this game is worse than any other online game that I have ever played.

 

I understand the principal issue that cause latency and I understand that this issue is linked to my internet connection. However I cannot understand why other games don't provide a similar negative experience. Even old IL2 did not have this issue for me.

[SYN_Blackrat]

I may be teaching you to suck eggs, but have you changed the multiplayer settings to the maximum your net connection can handle? I think the last patch reset it all to lowest.

[sturmkraehe]

No, it's not down to the lowest in my settings but what settings would you recommend?

[SYN_Blackrat]

Try the max your connection can handle maybe?

[Willy__]

 

 

I may be teaching you to suck eggs, but have you changed the multiplayer settings to the maximum your net connection can handle? I think the last patch reset it all to lowest.

 

Thx Blackrat, mine was set to minimum. Cant play right now, so I cant test to see if it actually make any difference.

[sturmkraehe]

doesn't help! I still seem to shoot air rather than enemy airplanes around and planes hit me when it should not be the case physically from what I see.

[SCG_Tzigy]

i have a good one. 2 nights ago on a syndicate server, i am like 200 yards behind another 109, he is on the tail of a russian plane, pouring lead into him through several reversals. only i can not see the enemy plane..... i followed him for good 20-30 sec and several bursts..it was over our base, kept checking the radar in zoom every 2 seconds...clearly seeing the icons...maybe it was the beer ....

[7.GShAP/Silas]

For what it's worth, I've never experienced any issues.  I play almost exclusively on European servers, am based in northern California and ping better to Tokyo than to Berlin. I don't know what to say, except that some games can handle a higher ping(~200+) and some can't. Red Orchestra never gives me any issues, but DayZ/Insurgency can be really bad. It's all down to netcode and the division of data between server side and client side.

[BlackDevil]

......Even old IL2 did not have this issue for me.

This is mathematically impossible. Not the perfect netcode could do anything against the ping. You got to add your ping with the ping of the guy on your six. If you have 50 ms to a server, but the guy on your six got 300ms, there is nothing the server or the netcode can do about it. Together it will be 350ms. Only if the server doesn't accept players with pings above 100ms, you can be sure, that you have a maximum of 200ms, when you are in a dogfight. How much is 200ms ? Do some math: 20 sec for a circle (360 degrees) give you around 4 degrees for 200ms. That is about the amount necessary for the effect, you did describe before (not seeing the bottom of the plane at your six, when he pulls the trigger).

 

Lets sum it up again: Even with the perfect netcode (...and the RoF netcode is the best I did experience so far. After flying lots of close online formation and wing to wing aerobatics I think I can judge this a bit), and a server, which boots everyone above 100ms, you will have the latency, that will not let you see the bottom of your enemy in a hard circle fight.

 

PS: Servers with a max ping limit of 100ms make no sense, as for most situations a ping of 150ms is good enough. Why prevent someone, who is ground pounding tanks with his IL2 with a ping of 200ms, of playing on a big server ? That doesn't hurt a bit, and you can still shoot him down with your fighter, even with a combined ping of 300ms.

 

When I started online dogfights with Flanker 1.0, a ping of 300ms was perfect. Now we complain about 100ms.

Edited November 24, 2014 by BlackDevil

[coconut]

This is mathematically impossible. Not the perfect netcode could do anything against the ping. You got to add your ping with the ping of the guy on your six. If you have 50 ms to a server, but the guy on your six got 300ms, there is nothing the server or the netcode can do about it. Together it will be 350ms. Only if the server doesn't accept players with pings above 100ms, you can be sure, that you have a maximum of 200ms, when you are in a dogfight. How much is 200ms ? Do some math: 20 sec for a circle (360 degrees) give you around 4 degrees for 200ms. That is about the amount necessary for the effect, you did describe before (not seeing the bottom of the plane at your six, when he pulls the trigger).

 

That's right. And there is more, assuming the game uses client-side hit detection: The enemy sees you where you were 200ms ago, which means he does not need to rise his nose as much as you think he should have to hit you.

[BlackDevil]

....., assuming the game uses client-side hit detection: .

It does - there is no other way to do it.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Still more,

 

Your latency or ping time as reported in the server browser is a round-time trip. Your own ping of 200ms = 100ms to the server 1way.

If you have a ping of 200ms and the other person has a ping of 100ms, the result from a pure client/server latency perspective is only 150ms, 100ms for you to send your position to the server, 50ms for the enemy to receive an update from the server.

 

Its not just as simple as that though, the server takes some additional time to process your input, then output it to your enemy too. So 150ms + server/client processing time.

[=69.GIAP=Shvak]

In RoF as a plane approaches me I start taking our ping difference more seriously. Ping becomes more important. I have a consistent 200 ping to most EU servers. Most people on the server have lower pings than me. Like I said, I see them approached and even If I am in a more maneuverable plane if I react to the visual clues I am seeing I die. What I end up doing is trying to predict what the enemy plane is going to do and begin reacting before he begins his turn. I 100% agree that you are unlikely to see the plane nose pointing towards you or past you before you take hits.

What you and he are seeing are two different things. That is why many times new pilots feel cheated. "I was turning inside him and the next thing I know I am dead." The fact is in his view he had perfect lead and in your view looking back his nose is below your planes so him shooting should mean he misses. 

I make the assumption that if he is shooting he has everything right and I react accordingly. I know my ping is an issue and react accordingly.

This problem has haunted flight sims for years. In RoF because of the slower speed of combat it is less of an issue. But in the high speed combat of WW2 the RoF netcode is showing its age. The solution, well that is easy. Only play in a lan where pings of 5 or 6 are the norm... Or live with it

[BlackDevil]

In RoF because of the slower speed of combat it is less of an issue. But in the high speed combat of WW2 the RoF netcode is showing its age. The solution, well that is easy. Only play in a lan where pings of 5 or 6 are the norm... Or live with it

You are right with your other explanation, but I oppose the one above. The problem is more pronounced in RoF, as the angular velocity is higher. And it is in no way a sign of age of the netcode, as it is still the best around. With good pings, you can fly aerobatic with a few meters seperation. I didnt see a better netcode yet. You even see the control surface inputs of your leader.

 

Just test it yourself: Take a squad member, where both of you have less than 50 ms, and do some very close formation manouvers with IL2 BoS. And when you can keep position, you switch to another WW2 sim and do the same.

Edited November 24, 2014 by BlackDevil

[=69.GIAP=Shvak]

You are right with your other explanation, but I oppose the one above. The problem is more pronounced in RoF, as the angular velocity is higher. And it is in no way a sign of age of the netcode, as it is still the best around. With good pings, you can fly aerobatic with a few meters seperation. I didnt see a better netcode yet. You even see the control surface inputs of your leader.

I am no expert so I cannot argue the point. You are most likely right

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

I too am pretty impressed with the net code. The nature of flight helps hide many issues with latency though. There is only so much directional change that can occur in flight when considering fractions of a second.

 

 

The three main issues I see are -

 

1. Delay in seeing the actual rounds being fired - much more than what latency should be.  Watching fights off in the distance, you can see that rounds are being fired late, and also being fired well after the optimal firing solution looks to have passed.

2. Delay in feedback of damage occurring above the sum of latency. Whilst this looks weird on occasion, its cosmetic and does not affect the fight.

3. The issues the devs are already tackling regarding what occurs when dserver limits are reached and mass slowdowns are seen and reported by everyone.

 

 

With regards to having to lead a target (to compensate for lag) more than is actually required to get hits on target that some have reported - I don't see that at all and from my experience BOS is performing very well in that regard.

Very impressed.

[Urra]

With server ping of 12 I'm leading targets correctly but the program still slows down to 17 frames per seconds from 60 when I'm close to another plane.

Edited November 24, 2014 by roaming_gnome

[sturmkraehe]

Thanks for all the interesting and educative explanations, guys! 

 

The only "but" I would like to throw in is following:

 

I've played online old IL2 for several years and also RoF (and on a much worse internet connection) and while on very RARE occasions I experienced this discrepancy caused by latency the frequency with which I experience this in BoS is by at least an order of magnitude higher! I won't go so far as to say that the netcode of BoS is badly written as I have no expertise in this matter. However I think I have the duty to report such a difference in my experience comparing different games.

 

I would be happy if you could point me to how I could improve the situation for me by myself or that the devs come up with a miraculous solution for this issue.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I understand we will always have ping and therefore lagg. My problem is players warping in a smooth or jerky manner. The smooth is the worst as it is deceiving. I also get slide show if there are lots of aircraft not on the map but if there are alot in the same airspace.

[sturmkraehe]

I forgot to mention that this issue is (for me) present since a few patches ago. During Early Access I did not notice such things.

[sturmkraehe]

I would like to bump this thread because this issue is killing mp for me to a good extend. I repeat that this issue I did not experience in old IL2 and I did not in RoF. The netcode may be good for slow dogfights like in RoF but maybe it does need some overhaul considering the the strongly increased speeds of ww2 dogfights. It really is an issue I did not experience in other flight sims (with same internet connection).

[macro1]

open this one up wide, im in NZ and it sucks, I have 300+ on just about everyserver and pretty much cant play most

[wtornado]

open this one up wide, im in NZ and it sucks, I have 300+ on just about everyserver and pretty much cant play most

You are too far away not much you can do.

Edited February 20, 2016 by WTornado

[macro1]

i will keep trying everything I can. Shame more servers are not in USA or Eu as CLOD, I have no problems there