A Lot of Early Access Players No Longer Playing

[oneeyeddog]

I've just recently completed the Campaign and I've seen the closing video and I even just watched it again and still I fail to pick up on any 'unusual message' in the voice-over. All I heard, when I played it backwards,was "Paul is Dead" and "Kill your Landlord". 

[SYN_Haashashin]

Guys, it's the second time in less than 24 hours that I have to clean this topic. It won't happen a third time.

 

To all, report the post you think is breaking the rules, DO NOT respond back, since if actions have to be taken it won't matter who started it or who did not.

[BFsSmurfy]

I spend my time on the guitar now, unlocks, predictable and mind numbing SP mission, poorly thought out and at time ignorant posts by those in charge and the will of 1 individual having more sway than  the desires of the customer put paid to this for me. When the Dserver comes out I`ll play again, on our server, with our own missions controlled by our own admins.

[PsychoDeath]

I stoped playing the game today.......

 

Unlocked half of the planes and reached pilot level 9, i gave the unlocks a chance, tried to play the campaign...but for me it's like going to work, no fun and a waste of time.

The core of this game is great, the feeling of flight .....wow!

 

But this isn't enough for me, i want to have fun and not a boring Campaign where i have to earn XP to unlock modifications.

I'll go back to ROF, CLOD ....training my pilot skills

 

If the game will be fun again...."I'LL BE BACK!"

[GRehalkov]

I am still here...but have not so much free time, btw the game is still awesome 

[whatnot]

Hate to say this, but did the team manage to do a double whammy?

 

1) Due to the focus on FM, sim and 'feeling of flight' related aspects they had to leave a proper SP campaign for later / modders.

 

2) Due to forced unlock grind the servers have less and less players as the grinding experience is not enjoyable (due to point 1.)

 

However the core flight experience is mostly excellent so this is quite fixable: Remove the unlocks to revive the MP and have devs focus on a robust FMB to revive the SP. Then off to few FM fixes, larger servers, few new 10$ planes and off to new theater.

[303_Kwiatek]

Since server limit to 32 players i stop playing BOS.

[SCG_Neun]

Today marks my final roll call with you, but I want you to know that when I cross the river my last conscious thoughts will be-of The Core, and The Core, and The Core.

I bid you farewell.  MacArthur...

 

 

Well, not really...just a play on words....the core of the game seems to be mentioned a lot, and it's true....it is a good core....but we need to give it a few years....it will get better.

[Vaxxtx]

Have not played since the badly designed campaign was introduced.

 

Wont even pick it up again until the "hit sounds" bug is addressed and fixed, and someone makes a good SP campaign, with accruate historical squads and numbering.

 

Plenty of other sims/games to play until/if that stuff is fixed.

[Elbows]

For me, it's pretty much down to one thing: FMB.

 

The FM's are fine, etc.  But I find multiplayer to be pretty boring most of the time because it's just meaningless dogfights and constant vulching.  Zero "sim" aspect to it at all.

 

My group predominantly runs lengthier RoF missions I design on our own server.  It's likey this is what we'll spend most of our time doing in BoS --- something we can't do currently.  Because of this (and the stupid unlocks) two of the four of us have not bothered to be pick up the game, as there is no real point.  The inability to create and host my own missions means that after one evening of flying on a server...I'm bored.  No weather changes, date changes, no objectives, etc.  No ability to adjust difficulty or settings.

 

No ability to even download and run missions from other players.  The single player is comically repetitive and extremely boring.  The initial joy of learning simply how to fly has come and gone and BoS now has nothing to offer me.  I've AI-ed the campaign to unlock most of what I need, so every night it's the same 4-5 servers running the same tired missions.

 

I like the game and I'll keep it, but I don't expect to play it much at all until FMB comes out.  What's the point?  There is no content to play. 

[=38=Tatarenko]

I am loving the campaign in the IL-2 right now. Loads happening, very atmospheric in the evening light with flares, tracers, fires etc.

 

Not a big fan of the GPS map and the fact that even in expert it marks the enemy units from quite a distance so it's easy to navigate around them.

 

But overall yes, I'm having fun with this sim in spite of the "You have took off" etc.

[dkoor]

Two things...

 

First - we have been spoiled with much more content from old IL-2 series.

That issue will continue to be an issue for a long time, most likely forever (for this game).

 

And second one, what bothers me the most is lack of a good purpose to all this.

That kinda hurts after 13 years spending with the title.

 

Because instead of online mega coops (single missions), massive online multiplayer wars in real time (campaigns) all we have is relatively nice new incarnation of QMB (a la RoF) and quite ineffective, repetitive and some would add, annoying campaign. Considering unlocking stuff etc.

 

So instead of pumping hours on those coops and wars which would bring yet unmatched experience of air war, because no one ever did that so far with such fine FM and DM, all news are we got a new unlocking system that no one ever wished for unfortunately.

 

Smart market move?

Perhaps for bringing new people in (I'm not sure about this), but for all of us old farts that's kinda LEAP backwards from where we already were.

OK maybe, not all... maybe someone actually like this in which case I'm apologizing in advance.

 

Candy eye graphics without good backup story will be quickly worn out for me. In fact it already is, that's why I popped here as I felt for the topic title.

Edited November 21, 2014 by dkoor

[dburne]

 

 

Smart market move?

Perhaps for bringing new people in (I'm not sure about this), but for all of us old farts that's kinda LEAP backwards from where we already were.

OK maybe, not all... maybe someone actually like this in which case I'm apologizing in advance.

 

 

 

It would certainly be interesting to know, as far as bringing a lot of new folks in - maybe they are, but not sure I am seeing it at least represented here on the forums... or on others for that matter.

[pilotpierre]

Personally I think the biggest mistake the devs made is to make the Early Access players go through the unlocks. Fair enough (well maybe not) for the new part time simmers they were hoping to catch. But, in the main, the majority of the EA's would be serious simmers from the old IL2, CoD and RoF.

 

I think the amount of angst would have been minimal and the reviews (from the EA players) would have been much better than what they ended up. Additionall I suspect all those EA'ers that have left or stopped playing wouldn't have. And, reading between the lines the best MP server we had would probably still be operational.

[Afwastus]

Reasons I've stopped playing:

 

1) Singleplayer Campaign is just not fun

2) North American multiplayer is practically dead during prime time and we still don't have a NA Expert Server

3) No FMB available = no new missions = no squad missions (yes, I am aware the devs are working on it, but as long as it isn't released that doesn't really help us)

4) Server size of 32 kills flying on Expert for me, no grand air battles, no amazing interceptions of formations and instead hunting for lone aircraft and if I am lucky two aircraft

5) Unlocks are just not fun and I don't feel like grinding

 

At this point for my squad and I it's just easier and more fun to use CloD or Il-2: 1946 for our squad nights. That way we can quickly get new players going and can focus on just having fun (playing historical missions and with somewhat reasonable formations of enemy bombers or fighters) in the limited time we have to play.

 

Like others have said, it's not that I am mad or frustrated, just bored with what is in the game at this point.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Afwastus

[Mac_Messer]

Because instead of online mega coops (single missions), massive online multiplayer wars in real time (campaigns) all we have is relatively nice new incarnation of QMB (a la RoF) and quite ineffective, repetitive and some would add, annoying campaign. Considering unlocking stuff etc.

 

So instead of pumping hours on those coops and wars which would bring yet unmatched experience of air war, because no one ever did that so far with such fine FM and DM, all news are we got a new unlocking system that no one ever wished for unfortunately.

If the dserver and fmb are the tools that can make 3rd party support possible, things just might take a new dynamic once they`re released. But time is needed. Maybe 24hr DF coop oriented servers for starters, then generic mp coops, then finally the online wars. As I recall the early IL2 days, so far the new IL2 is pretty good at picking priorities to make the growth. There is a great need for a stimulus to actually make this move forward.

 

It would certainly be interesting to know, as far as bringing a lot of new folks in - maybe they are, but not sure I am seeing it at least represented here on the forums... or on others for that matter.

I`m pretty sure there are entire online squads waiting to jump right in the title. So far not much reason to do so though. I know I`m holding back for the very reasons dkoor described. Must be many more ppl doing the same. But none of that really matters if the 3rd party creators don`t get hooked.

Personally I think the biggest mistake the devs made is to make the Early Access players go through the unlocks. Fair enough (well maybe not) for the new part time simmers they were hoping to catch. But, in the main, the majority of the EA's would be serious simmers from the old IL2, CoD and RoF.

I think that founder group consists of both the newcomers from WT (as their first combatflightgame) and old farts from 1946. Both groups outside of IL2 have been waiting for the next big thing. I wouldn`t have felt bad about the unlocks if I could actually, you know, unlock them. Through flying coops in mp environment. I`d make 80-90% of that in a month or so, I bet.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Mac_Messer

[Mac_Messer]

What help sales is a different question. But to ask what brings us or others back or to BoS like to the best days what BoS had to the 75% early access version. Now it goes that way 100, 64, 32 we downgrading. More Server thanks to Dserver with 32-limit on a huge Map? Sounds boring to me. We had 64 with room for more but promised was the 100? But we get at the end 32. What a deal.

As far as I`m concerned, in a mp coop environment, even a 32 player limit can make a great online sortie. I`ve taken part in many similar missions back in the day and I didn`t mind it. Most I flew was 8v8, sometimes even 4v4 coops. None of that stopped online wars and simple generic coops from being madly fun. But we had mission objectives and we had lots of AI moving around the theatre of operations. So the illusion of flying with your buddies in a living world was very good. Actually I  find it pretty hard to imagine how could a 32v32 mission play out.

[Rjel]

As far as I`m concerned, in a mp coop environment, even a 32 player limit can make a great online sortie. I`ve taken part in many similar missions back in the day and I didn`t mind it. Most I flew was 8v8, sometimes even 4v4 coops. None of that stopped online wars and simple generic coops from being madly fun. But we had mission objectives and we had lots of AI moving around the theatre of operations. So the illusion of flying with your buddies in a living world was very good. Actually I  find it pretty hard to imagine how could a 32v32 mission play out.

I think for me at least, that was the key to flying online. The right people to fly with was far more fun than the numbers. It was a much more valuable learning experience too. The MP world echoes the sim websites IMO. A mix of a lot of personalities. Some really good folks, some I wouldn't want to waste five minutes of my time with.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Rjel

[BeastyBaiter]

I haven't played in a couple weeks, it's a number of things tbh. In no particular order:

 

1) Been playing other stuff, I cycle games every couple weeks. Currently playing a lot of DCS. So a 2-4 week absence from one doesn't mean anything.

 

2) Even though I have most of the unlocks at this point, it has left a foul after taste. My desire to play was reduced overall.

 

3) The MP in EA was better than it is now. Was much more open then with more servers and variety.

[Livai]

Personally I think the biggest mistake the devs made is to make the Early Access players go through the unlocks. Fair enough (well maybe not) for the new part time simmers they were hoping to catch. But, in the main, the majority of the EA's would be serious simmers from the old IL2, CoD and RoF.

 

I think the amount of angst would have been minimal and the reviews (from the EA players) would have been much better than what they ended up. Additionall I suspect all those EA'ers that have left or stopped playing wouldn't have. And, reading between the lines the best MP server we had would probably still be operational.

 

We got the unlocks at the end of the road because at the beginning from the development they need to testing things. But it was maybe known from the beginning that something like this is coming. If many known this from the beginning they dont pre-ordered this game for sure. Thats a point what gives me to think if that was just a trick???

 

---->For WT players it was a shock after they notice that this game is a sim  

---->BoS feels like a Lite Edition from RoF and the changes doesnt made the game much better.

 

The main negative previews started with the unlocks to play SP to unlock it and the limited 32 player count. That ends after something change at this way? Maybe the Mod-Tools change something?

 

[EDIT] Mod-Tools, self-made skins and missions thats fun but without it not for me.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Superghostboy

[BlackDevil]

Good missions will come with the ME. A skin solution will come and the MP player count will go up again.

 

Remaining problems will be the unlocks (although it was a bad decision, i can live with it) and the graphic presets, that f.e. prevent using three monitors. There is still hope they will reconsider this point. Perhaps they spare this for a Christmas gift ?

Edited November 22, 2014 by BlackDevil

[Trooper117]

Just check out the numbers that are playing WT at any time... they are huge.

If the devs were hoping that crowd would suddenly port over to Bo$ they have failed miserably in that regard... still, time will tell, but is it running out?

[=LD=Hethwill]

WT is mouse and keyboard out of the box. Means nothing compared to BoS.

[BlackDevil]

I don't think time is running out, because there just is no alternative. The core of the sim is brilliant. If they can add the most important stuff within the next months, there are still years ahead, where all flight sim enthusiasts will join. The war thunder crowd will never switch. A teeny with mouse and keyboard will never get a realistic tail dragger into the air.

[Trooper117]

Yet apparently that is the type of new player they were hoping to catch, hence the design change.

 

And yes, of course, Bo$ is a completely different animal to WT, yet we have the XP grind and unlocks... kind of counter productive don't you think?

[BlackDevil]

You are right ! No doubt. But I will have to live with that unlucky design decisions, as I have no alternative. The core of the sim is just too good.

Edited November 22, 2014 by BlackDevil

[=LD=Hethwill]

Yes.

 

XP and Unlocks are a nuisance. For myself is not a show stopper BUT i would say aloud "HELL YEAH! ABOUT TIME!" if they were definitely removed.

 

I might be wrong in my assessment but the new player they are trying to catch is the WT player that wants a more demanding "FRB". Not the WT player itself.

[=LD=Hethwill]

Well, RoF is free ( it is very playable with the two planes if you learn them proper. After you can decide which ones to buy and learn... actually I like the RoF model a lot except for the modification$... plane should bring full package ) and still doesn't reach anything close to WT numbers. All comes back to the "mainstream gamer" discussion. Time vs Learning vs Money vs Satisfaction vs E-Peen stats vs Time vs Learning vs...

[DD_Arthur]

 There is a great need for a stimulus to actually make this move forward.

 

 

 

This phrase seems to sum it all up really.   The game seems to be in limbo at the moment.

[Lensman]

Yes,WarThunder is a children's game also used by older people unwilling or unable to invest the time and money in a real simulator. WT and BOS are (or at least SHOULD) be completely different products. It was the decision to attempt the lowest common denominator solution to try and make a hybrid application that has all but sunk this project. It was like trying to market a compromised Ferrari that at the flick of a switch transforms into a cheap shopping trolley car. Not a wise decision!

[II./JG77_Manu*]

The war thunder crowd will never switch. A teeny with mouse and keyboard will never get a realistic tail dragger into the air.

 

Yet apparently that is the type of new player they were hoping to catch, hence the design change.

 

And yes, of course, Bo$ is a completely different animal to WT, yet we have the XP grind and unlocks... kind of counter productive don't you think?

 

I might be wrong in my assessment but the new player they are trying to catch is the WT player that wants a more demanding "FRB". Not the WT player itself.

 

and still doesn't reach anything close to WT numbers. 

 

Yes,WarThunder is a children's game also used by older people unwilling or unable to invest the time and money in a real simulator. 

 

You can't talk about War Thunder like one game, there is a huuge difference between the arcade/historic game/community and the Sim game/community.

 

In arcade(+), yes there are a lot of children, they enjoy grinding themselves through everything which was in the air during the 30's and 40's. But they never were and never will be the audience for a game like BoS, or any other simulator. They are fly-by-wire mouse and keyboard players, playing the game like any other ordinary computer game. Hence, they are not even interested in the in-game simulator. 99% of the people playing War Thunder don't even have a single Simulator flight, although they wouldn't have to pay for it, or do anything else for it. In addition, in this Genre (mouse and keyboard fly-by-wire flight game) War Thunder is miles ahead any other game in almost every aspect, there is no reason for them to ever even consider about other "flight games".

 

In the Simulator mode, which is by the way not more populated then BoS (was before 32 people limit) or Clod, it is a whole other story. Community there is no difference to the community in BoS or DCS. I flew with a lot of different people in WT, but not a single time i met someone below 18 , youngest guy i ever met was 19 (and pretty mature). In this mode there are no "children" at all like Lensman is stating. Dou you really think a kid is spending hundreds of euro's for flight simulator equipment (which you need as well for WT Sim mode), spending a hundred hours alone for the flight basics, and getting frustrated with every fucked up start or landing? Well, i wanna see this child, who has that patience. Flying in WT Sim is just as difficult as in any other Sim, in fact i never had a more difficult landing in DCS/BoS/Clod then with my dauntless on a carrier in WT.. Back to topic, the people in Simulator in WT don't care at all about the grinding and unlocks. They just play it, because it's simulator like, with a lot of planes and scenarios, and a fast accessibility. They behave often more mature, then people in BoS multiplayer, because when you die, you die. No respawn like in BoS.

I myself came from WT, learned virtual aviation in WT, and also persuaded 3 of my buddies to buy BoS. No one of us want the damn unlocks. We all want custom graphics, coop multiplayer, proper FMB, and stuff like that, like you "old guys from former flight sims". And i think most, if not all of the ex-WT-Sim players see it the same.

 

So i just can't believe, that the Devs implemented the unlock system into this game to persuade "ex-WT-player" into this one. That just makes no sense at all. I can't and i don't believe that the Dev's are that clueless about "the people" and the marketing mechanics in flight sims....there just have to be another reason... (don't ask me what..)

Edited November 22, 2014 by Celestiale

[Thor]

I don't think time is running out, because there just is no alternative. The core of the sim is brilliant. If they can add the most important stuff within the next months, there are still years ahead, where all flight sim enthusiasts will join. The war thunder crowd will never switch. A teeny with mouse and keyboard will never get a realistic tail dragger into the air.

Teenys with mouse and keyboard sometimes grow up! lol

[t4trouble]

 

 

Problem seems to be too many cooks, I actually feel bad for Jason that he got stuck in a business arrangement with the Russians. Any American by now would have listened to their customers, admitted they were wrong on presets and unlocks and done a 180... A la apple with the bigger iphone. Arrogant Russian managers think they know what's best even though they are obviously clueless. I don't personally know Loft and Han but after reading their posts it's obvious that they don't care about western customers.

 

Sorry but i don't buy the anti - russian sentiment in your post, we in the west are so much better at doing things remember 2008 ? and i could keep going.

[JG1_Daze]

I stopped playing because vs CLOD  BOS feels claustrophobic . I like the sunshine and blue skies of CLOD and ROF.

But mostly I like career play.  BOS campaign just doesn't create that "I'm a pilot in a squadron" feeling.

"Pilot Value" in game is very important to me. Promotions , medals, transfers, mission breifings that feel like mission breifings.

Virtual squadmates for us guys who can't play online much.  I'll it for the last time. Red Baron 3d had it very close.

Please don't be different just to be different.  I don't know why I bother posting.. It's just feels like no one listens anyway.

I finished CLOD RAF campaing..what fun!  waiting for TF 5.0   If theres one good lesson here for me is to NEVER buy

early access again. $100 geez what was I thinkin?

[Rama]

To all: better stop now the "russian vs western world" stuff.... and please put back the thread on rail.

[avlSteve]

I stopped playing because vs CLOD  BOS feels claustrophobic . I like the sunshine and blue skies of CLOD and ROF.

But mostly I like career play.  BOS campaign just doesn't create that "I'm a pilot in a squadron" feeling.

"Pilot Value" in game is very important to me. Promotions , medals, transfers, mission breifings that feel like mission breifings.

Virtual squadmates for us guys who can't play online much.  I'll it for the last time. Red Baron 3d had it very close.

Please don't be different just to be different.  I don't know why I bother posting.. It's just feels like no one listens anyway.

I finished CLOD RAF campaing..what fun!  waiting for TF 5.0   If theres one good lesson here for me is to NEVER buy

early access again. $100 geez what was I thinkin?

 

We're all hoping for a better campaign.  I believe that as long as they can make a decent living supporting the product, they'll make it as good as they possibly can. 

 

I feel like they've delivered a lot in a short time, and that there's a lot more to come.  Hurry up, devs!

[JG1_Daze]

Thank you for replying.  I felt sorta alone on this point.  The potential here is incredible.  I just hope it works out in the end but for now I can't play it.

[ST_ami7b5]

To all: better stop now the "russian vs western world" stuff.... and please put back the thread on rail.

[Trooper117]

Great pic...

[johncage]

They have often stated their belief that unlocks are needed in order to entice new players.

 

Of course its a flawed belief, anyone that actually plays other games knows this, but unfortunately we are where we are, we have what we have.

 

And we haven't, yet, seen the large influx of new players that this unlock system was designed to bring.

 

the unlock system is likely the culprit. the campaign was designed around such a system and so felt grindey and repetitive.