A Lot of Early Access Players No Longer Playing

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

People above made good points: the impossibility to host a private mission is the first one IMO, while I really don't care about unlocks.

 

I've BoS installed and up-to-date, but there's something else that it's keeping me away from the stick: probably it's just me, but I've really big issue with immersion.

 

On CloD I can almost breath the saline air and the sun is warming my skin; when I rotate my head I feel to be inside the cockpit.

On BoS instead I feel like I've my head trapped on a fish bowl and I've great difficulties to check around myself and this greatly increases my frustration.

 

Some features are amazing, but I feel like to not really be there.

 

I guess it's all a matter of taste... even though I do appreciate CloD, I never got the sensation of immersion,.. maybe it has to do with all the labels popping up on the screen, maybe it's the not so great GUI or the in game fonts... maybe it's the color scheme... or the sound.... This is really where I think this team has succeeded and excelled in .. yes immersion. Iiving in a country of snow, I really get the chills flying over the vast tundra.... the sound of wind passing by when opening the canopy... how to plane dances in turbulence.. In no other sim OR game have the sensation of immersion been quite as good as in this title. .. sure I still lack som stuff as DS and FMB, but knowing they are coming I am quite confident in the platform... 

[Sim]

Still hanging on, trying to enjoy the game. Although the unlocks are driving me nuts. Tried flying full expert/length Ju 87 campaign mission last week and the game crashed on me during the return flight.. no points gained, no unlocks unlocked, just lots of time wasted. Which leaves me waiting for the next patch expecting the crashes to be fixed.. And the MP with 32 player limit does not sound too exciting right now.

[DD_fruitbat]

Lost all remaining interest when the unlocks were introduced. Havent played since, first time on the forums for weeks, just to check if anyting new has happened.

[=38=Tatarenko]

I'm still playing but only in short bursts in the QMB. Have just upgraded to MFG Crosswind pedals - so much better! None of that spinning on the runway nonsense any more.

[heinkill]

Returned to give campaign another go last weekend.

 

Once you have unlocked everything worth unlocking (as I have on the IL2 now) you actually focus more on the missions/campaign than the stupid unlock thing. Latest feelings on it (and mitigating suggestions):

 

- If you get a good mission (lots of action, good challenge, AI doing as it is told, good random events, different time of day or weather), it is great. (Change randomisation to ensure you don't get two identical missions in a row).

 

- If you play five missions and get two airfield attacks and three artillery attacks, same time of day, same weather, same three-four IL2s and three-four escorts going up against same 3-4 109F or Gs, it makes you pull your hair out. (More different target types for ground attack: oil tanks, supplies, railway tracks or junctions, shipping on the Volga, troop positions, enemy camps, vehicle parks etc etc)

 

- No real incentive to move from chapter to chapter as far as I can see. The front line moves, but the map is the same, briefings the same, gameplay the same, so what's the point? (Needs different maps, more dramatic changes from chapter to chapter, and/or only unlock new aircraft in new chapters)

 

- Pilot level up doesn't seem to do anything perceptible to me. I thought air opponents might get more/tougher. But I am level 5 now in my IL2 and still have not been attacked by a single fighter, not once. AAA seems the same. If levelling up makes the missions more difficult, it must happen at levels 5-10? (Reduce the number of pilot levels to three and make the changes in difficulty more steep).

 

- By flying only one aircraft type, flying out of the same airfield for a few missions in a row, I don't actually miss the role playing/pilot campaign thing too much. (Enable a player to play historical squadron and aircraft type from correct airfield only, with historical skins)

 

- I do wish there was something that would make me give a damn about my wingmen. But they are just along for the ride, nameless faces in the sky, and because they are so useless at ground attack I really don't care if they live or die. (Fix the AI so that wingies actually follow ground attack commands, let the AI earn XP and introduce a squadron roster where the pilot can pick his own wingies based on their own XP).

 

Cheers

 

H

[JG26sandbag69]

There are new members joining everyday.  let's praise the Sim and support the Dev's, then we will eventually have the best Flight Sim ever. 

I have my pennies ready for new MAps and planes.

[Yakdriver]

same here.
A long mental wishlish for Fighters and twin engined Bombers, Observation Planes, Ground objects on airbases, Logistics network, scenery, decoration...
and the wallet to support that wishlist :D

[WhoCares]

...

- No real incentive to move from chapter to chapter as far as I can see. The front line moves, but the map is the same, briefings the same, gameplay the same, so what's the point? (Needs different maps, more dramatic changes from chapter to chapter, and/or only unlock new aircraft in new chapters)

 

- Pilot level up doesn't seem to do anything perceptible to me. I thought air opponents might get more/tougher. But I am level 5 now in my IL2 and still have not been attacked by a single fighter, not once. AAA seems the same. If levelling up makes the missions more difficult, it must happen at levels 5-10? (Reduce the number of pilot levels to three and make the changes in difficulty more steep).

...

There are at least subtle variations. Most notable, in the Airbridge phase, as a russian fighter pilot you often get an "Intercept Transports" mission which happens to turn out as He-111s close to an enemy airfield (sometimes even landed) in a snow storm (~400m closed cloud layer and bad visibility due to heavy snowfall).

For me the change in difficulty became notable from 8-10.  I basically unlocked all the "interesting" features plane by plane, ignored the last skin(s). Then, when I wanted to "clean up" and also get me those final skins I was already level 9.

Getting the mission mentioned above at those levels means dangerous ground fire from the airfield and deadly rear gunners of the Heinkels in an environment that leaves little space for attacks with vertical maneuvers. Add some 109ers to the equation and you have quite a handful to deal with.

 

So my advice would be to "collect" the most interesting unlocks for all planes of your interest in advance while difficulty is lower, instead of "levelling" your pilot to higher levels in a single plane.

 

Edit: As a light note on the the actual thread subject, maybe the old hands just signed up for a one year term

Edited November 19, 2014 by WhoCares

[senseispcc]

I must honestly say I still nearly every day play one or two QMB missions but less and less against other side planes only to fly and enjoy it but the withe snow covered landscape is a little boring but fun and in bad weather conditions quite challenging. 

 

Play BOS it shall evolve into something great in the future!

[SCG_Neun]

Would there be a way to generate a QMB mission, locate folder where it is stored and send it to a buddy to place in his mission folder?  I ask this because, if you have someone create a mission with the parameters, such as numbers of enemy, skill level, aircraft, altitude/advantage or disadvantage merge......You could at least experience a little "fog of war" effect.  Right now....for offline, this is what this game is missing....other than the campaign and even that's got it's routine factored in... I mean altitude cruise at 4000 meters......oh look...there's the bombers...at 4000 or below a bit....

Edited November 19, 2014 by JagdNeun

[Trident_109]

But....Then original IL-2 didn't become number one in 1 year or 2, it took 5 years before it was playable.

I came to IL2 in Dec 02. (I still remember joining UBI on the 8th of Dec) At that time it worked very well and I even bought Track IR to flesh out my sim experience. While IL2 didn't fully support TIR it worked well enough. When FB came out a couple of months later TiR worked flawlessly.

 

So while I can't vouch for the condition prior to Dec, 02 I can undoubtedly say it worked after the first year. It was certainly playable.

 

GAWD! I still remember waiting on the snow covered runway to take off behind my squad mates, and noticing my palms becaming more and more sweaty as I panicked in my FW 190 cockpit, while watching the IL2s get closer and closer.  HURRY!!!!!!! There coming! LOL.

[Flack88]

I simply got bored of doing the same missions over and over for unlocks. I also cannot change my online name to Flack88 (its set to my real name)!

[heinkill]

Would there be a way to generate a QMB mission, locate folder where it is stored and send it to a buddy to place in his mission folder? I ask this because, if you have someone create a mission with the parameters, such as numbers of enemy, skill level, aircraft, altitude/advantage or disadvantage merge......You could at least experience a little "fog of war" effect. Right now....for offline, this is what this game is missing....other than the campaign and even that's got it's routine factored in... I mean altitude cruise at 4000 meters......oh look...there's the bombers...at 4000 or below a bit....

Tried a while back to find a QMB generated file. Failed - would also love to be able..

 

H

Edited November 19, 2014 by heinkill

[SCG_Neun]

Thanks Heinkill....at least I know it wasn't a crazy idea...since you were looking for a way also....

[JG1_Lipfert]

Kameraden,

 

10pm EST on a Wednesday evening, counted a total of 5 players across all the listed MP Servers.

 

Houston, we have a problem.

 

S!

[unreasonable]

Returned to give campaign another go last weekend.

 

Once you have unlocked everything worth unlocking (as I have on the IL2 now) you actually focus more on the missions/campaign than the stupid unlock thing. Latest feelings on it (and mitigating suggestions):

 

- If you get a good mission (lots of action, good challenge, AI doing as it is told, good random events, different time of day or weather), it is great. (Change randomisation to ensure you don't get two identical missions in a row).

 

- If you play five missions and get two airfield attacks and three artillery attacks, same time of day, same weather, same three-four IL2s and three-four escorts going up against same 3-4 109F or Gs, it makes you pull your hair out. (More different target types for ground attack: oil tanks, supplies, railway tracks or junctions, shipping on the Volga, troop positions, enemy camps, vehicle parks etc etc)

 

- No real incentive to move from chapter to chapter as far as I can see. The front line moves, but the map is the same, briefings the same, gameplay the same, so what's the point? (Needs different maps, more dramatic changes from chapter to chapter, and/or only unlock new aircraft in new chapters)

 

- Pilot level up doesn't seem to do anything perceptible to me. I thought air opponents might get more/tougher. But I am level 5 now in my IL2 and still have not been attacked by a single fighter, not once. AAA seems the same. If levelling up makes the missions more difficult, it must happen at levels 5-10? (Reduce the number of pilot levels to three and make the changes in difficulty more steep).

 

- By flying only one aircraft type, flying out of the same airfield for a few missions in a row, I don't actually miss the role playing/pilot campaign thing too much. (Enable a player to play historical squadron and aircraft type from correct airfield only, with historical skins)

 

- I do wish there was something that would make me give a damn about my wingmen. But they are just along for the ride, nameless faces in the sky, and because they are so useless at ground attack I really don't care if they live or die. (Fix the AI so that wingies actually follow ground attack commands, let the AI earn XP and introduce a squadron roster where the pilot can pick his own wingies based on their own XP).

 

Cheers

 

H

 

Very much my experience. I probably flew much less than most during EA so I am still finding out how to get the best of some planes. Currently flying the Fw190, which illustrates the AI shortcomings very well. 

 

To get the best out of the SP campaign without making major changes (ie changing anything to do with unlocks), we need 3 things:

 

1) AI tweaks to improve formation keeping, ground attack and, for the Fw190, ability to take off and maintain speed in a fight. Preferably change the default behaviour of AI wingmen rushing off whenever they see an enemy 7 km away.

 

2) A greater variety and specificity within each mission type: for instance HQ attacks have been mentioned, or attacks on identified enemy armoured thrusts.

 

3) The mission choice in each chapter needs to be made relevant to the military situation in the chapter.  Just now, for example, I am in Winter Storm flying a German fighter. Only Gumrak is available as a base, so I cannot fly in support of the German counter attack, I thought. I roll an intercept mission. Instead of trying to protect the pocket, I am sent on a 50km excursion to the west to intercept ground attack aircraft. 

 

Obviously this would do nothing for the MP situation, but would improve the game for us SP players considerably.

[6high]

I too quit flying for the moment, combination of unlocks and random CTD`s ( grinding in vain), mostly boring campaign and players vanishing from MP made me take a break.

I have not lost faith in the sim, i will say it again, i love the core of the game, the immersion created in flight and so i`m willing to hang on and wait without letting bitterness creep in.

After all, it`s a g-a-m-e and heck what is a hundred dollars to me if i can spend them on a computer game in the first place?

Perspective!

 

6

Edited November 20, 2014 by SYN_Haashashin

[LoneMerc]

As for me I been on pause since just before release mainly to wait on a few patches to get in and things to settle down. I have yet to start the campaign I was thinking of dusting off the Hotas this weekend and jump in, Im all patched up and ready I look at MP and still missing my Fav servers not being there ;(

[Blackcloud]

Last of the EA here, bought in a week before release. Quickly losing interest, haven't played once in 2 weeks.

Curiously however I check the forum every day, it seems that watching the little drama unfold is more interesting than the sim itself

 

You know this is a scarily accurate comment.  I was reading it and thinking ... Yep.... Me too!

[Blackcloud]

The game is primarily distibuted online, and has been initially announced as a single player online sim. So the requirements about internet connection shouldn't be a surprise, that's just how it works.

We're fixing it, sorry for these inconveniences, I know how annoying it can be.

Working on it. When you'll see dozens of servers with 3-4 pilots on each - that's it, that's the day when everyone has a dserver.

Working on it. On both things of course.

 

Thanks Zak.  I had not seen a lot on the possible future actual written by you guys in these forums which was disheartening.  It is good to know that you guys are still open to trying new things with this. I shall maintain my quiet appraisal of the situation for a little longer!

 

The only point that I would like to make here and it may be a semantic argument, but the comment "announced as a single player online sim" is interesting to me.  That is what I wanted when I invested.  And a long way from the gamey game that I got.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Blackcloud

[VR-DriftaholiC]

Really if people could grind unlocks on multiplayer servers like any other modern game the servers would stay populated.

[Livai]

Tomorrow is Friday

Maybe tomorrow the random CTDs or Unlocks disappear

[NN_RugbyGoth]

Tomorrow is Friday

Maybe tomorrow the random CTDs or Unlocks disappear

Master server update today... So big update coming our way tomorrow?

[Jaeger55]

Really if people could grind unlocks on multiplayer servers like any other modern game the servers would stay populated.

Bingo, this game defeats itself because it wants you to play single player for hours and hours and hours.

[FlyingNutcase]

Not only is gameplay tackled in a kind of grunting missionary position, but it is a missionary position with the game on top and the player underneath!

 

Not only is gameplay tackled in a kind of grunting missionary position, but it is a missionary position with the game on top and the player underneath, with the player facing away.  ;-\

 

But I jest for at this stage I haven't had time to fly a single campaign mission so no experience of the unlocks. The above seems like a pretty reasonable assessment of some people's experience of things though, which is a real shame. Hopefully things will pick up and the community and future will brighten up.

Edited November 20, 2014 by FlyingNutcase

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

I think it's worse than that. 

 

The old IL2 FMB was great fun to use. Zooming in and placing your units in the 3D space and zooming out and placing your waypoints in the 2D space was both intuitive and fun.

 

Good point on the fun-aspect! As zoom-in-and-move-around function for placing objects is essential, as it also gives you a very good way to judging how this will look from the ground.

[No601_Swallow]

Good point on the fun-aspect! As zoom-in-and-move-around function for placing objects is essential, as it also gives you a very good way to judging how this will look from the ground.

 

Don't forget the limitations of the IL2 FMB. No triggers, no scripting, no changing weather fronts, no... The amazing skill and artistry of mission designers often disguised the limitations. Hopefully the BoS FMB, when we finally get it, will allow much more functionality, and hence even more artistry and skill and imagination for mission designers!

 

[so long as it avoids the broken and porked and exasperating aspects of the FMB of a certain other unfinished WWII cfs, I'll be more than happy!   Just hurry up, Devs!]

[=LD=Rulo]

I'm still around. The sim is updated and I check the forum every day. I don't have the time to fly. This is my last week in the engeniering university as student. After that, one final exam and plenty of time to fly...

 

Rulo

[7./Sch.G.2_Stublerone]

Relax, Falke, you might just wanna relax a little...

 

I too quit flying for the moment, combination of unlocks and random CTD`s ( grinding in vain), mostly boring campaign and players vanishing from MP made me take a break.

I have not lost faith in the sim, i will say it again, i love the core of the game, the immersion created in flight and so i`m willing to hang on and wait without letting bitterness creep in.

After all, it`s a g-a-m-e and heck what is a hundred dollars to me if i can spend them on a computer game in the first place?

Perspective!

 

6

 

You are probably right with the amount of money. We still have the older generation, that still thinks, that a SIM title of a good quality has to cost 50 bucks and that is it. But in such a small community, we need to pay more for such a high level. No other games is investigating harder and trying to implement more physics and accuracy than current SIM producers to be honest.

 

And while I am also count myself to the old farts, I know, that maturely calculated (with such a small community) every player passionatly has to invest several hundred euros. Problem really is: Some can sell a passion and even create more interest over the SIM borders and some try their best, but cannot sell it or cannot transfer this passion. 

 

It is a difficult situation and a very hard time for flight sims. We are already approaching high fidelity, which means not only more accuracy and more work and more discussions. We are also approaching a time, where the community has become super small and they all are not convinced of the quality. In the early days, you simply took it all as it is introduced and do your best to maintain a good culture around it. 

This currently isnt the case, as this old mentality is gone in most cases. 

And expecting someone to build a high fidelity flight sim with such a budget and then also complaining about the "20$" per plane or such thing and that it becomes too expensive, is also the wrong way. Is it your hobby? -> Then 200-500 $ is nothing for a longterm experience. Every idiotic World of tanker put more than 1000,- $ into the game. Nearly every player in Warthunder already paid several hundred bucks and I also invested tons over tons of money into star citizen. 

Best is: While complaining here, they probably by a new DCS plane for 49,-$....Just saying, that also some of our guys attitudes probably is a failure. 

 

At the very end I must admit, that I also only check the forums every now and then. I was never a friend of pooping on dogfight servers. I know, that it somehow is essential to train, but as in IL2 1946, I never will find any fun in flying online on simple dogfight servers. I always flew SEOW, ADW and special squadron events. Rest is pretty much total wasted time for me personally. 

 

So, summarized:

I do not really trust, that the red side is as strong as they are. I could be biased, but I can only say: The german planes look like they were developed by a total idiot society with no engineering skills. I do not know, if it really was that close. A focke is not a focke for me. And I do not know, if the guns of the allies were accurate all the time, while all german guns out of famous german steel were inaacurate after 6 bullets left the gun. I also doubt, that cobra maneuvers with a focke was a usual maneuver. Some of these statements perhaps do not apply anymore, but ... I dont know.... 

After all I always stated, how much some of the online community is requiring to get a good battlefield, a living battlefield, a rearm/refuel/repair mechanic, SEOW like mechanics, advanced, moving dogfights....immersion... whatever makes it fun to live the pilots life. I do not have any feelings currently. I do not participate war, the airfield is not alive, etc. That would have been some content creation steps, that were the next steps in a combat sim like IL2. I also doubt, that the netcode is able to give us a significant number of players in the future. And buildings, ground units, etc. are also things, that is not much over the IL2 1946 quality. Only ruins consisting just of 4 textures is not, what I expected.

 

But again: The funds are driving the quality. And we will not come close to the needed budget. Some assets are already created just by the passion of the devs and I respect that. While a star citizen can create freely and take a couple hundred dollars  for a huge ship, they will take 20$ for a plane, that has to be investigated. I respect that passion. But I cannot see that game becoming, what I would love to see as next evolution of the IL2 brand. Difficult to explain. 

[Gort]

I think the number of the (what were gung-ho) original Early Access members no longer playing is very telling. We have those who say:

1. They have uninstalled BoS, or

2. They are no longer playing at all while waiting to see what the future will bring, or

3. They flash it up occasionally but quickly get crapped of with the unlocks.

Or, they have simply disappeared from the forums without comment.

Devs, is there any rethinking going on in the background w.r.t. (for example) Unlocks, Pilot Level, meaningful pilot statistics to stop the rot that seems to be occurring?

I personally think the core of this game is an absolute winner but it is being stymied by the gameyness of some unfathomable decisions that are alien to a flight sim and flight simmers.

Nothing having to do with any of the above, I'm just massively busy working and playing in the realworld™ .

 

Hope to spend some time next year on BoS.

[=LD=Hethwill]

Good point on the fun-aspect! As zoom-in-and-move-around function for placing objects is essential, as it also gives you a very good way to judging how this will look from the ground.

 

Actually the RoF ME is pretty much like that. I expect the BoS one to be similar of course.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

I wonder if I am going to see someone soon in some other forum telling everyone how he got banned for exposing the truth... Anyway, if you have proof that someone is paid to post not negative views, I would like to see it. If you don't, and that is purely speculative from your part, then it might be wiser not to start blaming anyone.

[SYN_Haashashin]

I'm locking this one untill further evaluation of what it has been said in last couple of posts. Personal discussions should remain in PMs.

[SYN_Haashashin]

I cleaned up the personal dispute. Again, you can have that kind of discussion on your PMs. Just stay on topic.

[dburne]

I think the number of the (what were gung-ho) original Early Access members no longer playing is very telling. We have those who say:

 

 

 

Just logged on to the forums for the first time in several days.

Have not flown BOS since the day after the release of the SP system. The direction they have gone, is just not for me. Then with the events that followed shortly after and some things that were said and done, some things still being said and done ,well has pretty much soured me to it now.

 

I do keep a check on the forums every now and then just to see what is going on and if maybe some re-consideration of their direction might be taking place, but find myself losing hope in that and checking less.

 

My interests now lay elsewhere for my combat flight simming. No loss for them, they got my 100 bucks. If there is any more to come however, they won't be getting any more from me. I am done with them at this point.

Edited November 20, 2014 by dburnette

[Chuck_Owl]

For me, the 32-player limit and unlock gimmick ruined my experience of multiplayer, which is the way I exclusively play flight sims.

 

Mind you, I enjoyed flying 50+ player servers on Syndicate and Eagle's Nest with Celestiale, Requiem, Rambo, AbortedMan, JimTM, OneEyedDog, Crash and many other guys.  Flying with people and talking to them and laughing and having fun really sells a game  much more than a lone single-player focused on a campaign without ANY sort of effective in-game narration. 

 

Most game developers are just beginning to realize that gaming has become a social experience first and foremost, which is why games like Battlefield, Il-2 1946, Planetside, World of Warcraft, Starcraft, Arma and many other games have been so successful. Just look at game releases this year: Dragon Age Inquisition, Assassin's Creed Unity, Far Cry 4... they ALL include Coop modes and some form of multiplayer. Even if it's rudimentary, it brings more people on-board and, more importantly, helps generate sales and positive publicity.

 

There are plenty of guys I convinced to fly one sim or another just by showing them how much fun we have online. Unfortunately, I can't say I'm having much fun with the current state of multiplayer at the moment.

[III/JG11_Tiger]

Parts of the the dev team seem to do hard with it, but let your customer decide thereselves where to play.

If it would really turn out as you predict, than it shall be like that.

But from my expiereince the well administrated servers which offer well designed mission will be well visited.

Dserver with 3-4 players are probabyl those ones which got used by squadrons or buddies which prefer to fly on an empty server to chekc this or that.

 

Once again, your customers are old enough to decide if, where, when and how they want to play.

You nailed it for me, it was all going along swimmingly then they chopped our graphics options, then enforced unlocks upon us, I have hardly played since, but will pick it up again when we get a dserver and maybe the devs wake up and stop treating us like children, I want choice in my graphics setting, choice as to whether I have to grind in single player and choice in the way I play, I cant believe we paid for early acess and the skins that came with it but even these arent available without more grind, some really bad choices by someone in this team imo.

Servers in the US evening are currently a ghost town.

You should try the servers in Australia and Asia, currently non existent until we get a sniff at the dserver, just a reminder devs there is a Southern Hemisphere.

[DD_Arthur]

@Trooper;  You've completed the campaign haven't you?   What did you make of the closing video?

 

 I thought the voice-over had an "unusual" message for what is supposed to be a pc game.

[Trooper117]

@Trooper;  You've completed the campaign haven't you?   What did you make of the closing video?

 

 I thought the voice-over had an "unusual" message for what is supposed to be a pc game.

Closing video... seems just to say to remember all those that took part or died during the battle as far as I remember... To be honest I was as underwhelmed by the videos as I was by the soulless campaign

[DD_Arthur]

 

 

 

Please be careful with spoilers replying to this

 

Lol.  S' all right.  I'm not fishing but I've always been a keen student of european history.  This video made me sit up.