A Lot of Early Access Players No Longer Playing

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

Ok, I agree with that .

[Y-29.Silky]

Its the mission builder who does that.

not the dev team. see my previous post.

Most of it was irrelevant. But you have the FMB to confirm this?

 

And it's not about the vulching though it encourages it greatly, it's about "game" vs "simulation". Sadly, navigation and aircrafy profiling js gone, things even War Thunder users can do.

[Leaf]

The reasons the game is rather empty right now, as I see it, are two-fold: 

 

(i) People are abstaining from purchasing the game due to a lack of features (FMB, dserver etc.)

(ii) Those who have purchased are waiting for more content and are in hibernation until further changes are made

 

What I feel needs to be done as a matter of extreme urgency is raise the player count on servers to at least 64. 
A map as large as Stalingrad with only 32 players is very desolate. Doubling the threshold will increase player numbers again. 32 players is fine for a normal server, not an expert one. 

 

Dserver (what exactly is that? It seems to be in high demand?) and FMB will massively increase player numbers not only because people will start playing the game again and actively create content for it (which in turn will draw new players in), but there are a number of people waiting to purchase BoS waiting for FMB and Dserver release, thinking that a flight sim is incomplete without them (which is fair enough).

 

Singleplayer optimisations would help too, as would actual multiplayer missions on the official servers. 
 

 

I just hope that the devs aren't already planning a sequel, because this gem still needs a lot of polishing.

[Yakdriver]

I have Eyes to know every blue dot on the map represents an Object, and to see that the "radar" object is exactly in the center of the Blue radar area.

hardly an FMB needed for that.

and it should in theory discourage vulching, because the blue guys have the radar advantage...
its only that the airquake dudes are too agressive for kills.

The game vs simulation aspect is up to the Mission Builder, once again.
and if the Mission builder sucks because he does things you do not like do not fly his missions.

 

your choice.

 

agree on the war thunder navigation... at least partially.

[20thBG_Grey_Wolf]

I thought that the developers wanted to create a successor to IL2: 1946?

 

Kind of late to this thread, but wanted to put in my 2 cents.

 

I have to take exception to the above quote. Nothing personal SYN_Vorlander, but that statement implies that IL2 1946 is dead. On top of that, there are also way too many comparisons to IL2 1946 all over the internets.

 

The truth of the matter is, IL2 1946 (the continuation of the original IL2 Sturmovik) is STILL being developed. Patch 4.13 is due soon, and being awaited by her fans with great anticipation.

 

I would like to say one last thing, before we start trying to make the comparissons to, and the spreading the idea that this IL2, is somehow a replacement for the original,

 

1) Let us see if it is still being developed, 15 years after it's intitial release,

 

2) Let us see if the developers actually listen to the customers / fan base for ideas about improvments (*this seems to be sorely lacking just now.)

 

3) Let us see if it allows the community to develop and mod the game, for the sake of the fans,

 

4) And most importantly, let us see if people are even flying it 15 years from now.

 

If none of that pans out, then in fact, this IL2 shares a name, but is not deserving of the crown, but is in fact, just a pretender to the throne

Edited November 18, 2014 by 20thBG_Grey_Wolf

[LAL_Luny]

Hi

 

From what I've read we only come to the conclusion :

 

The games need a couple more additions to become a real hit for the early access people and the old simers :

 

D Servers and F missions builder : its been said quite some time by the devs : it's coming, prolly before Xmas.

 

I just agree that the the game shouldn't have been said "released" without those.

 

If we still were on early access i guess the discussion would be somewhat different.

 

For the newcomers, I think it's abit different :

 

The critics arent so good because of some choices (unlocks), or laking points (see before), but seeing the arguement thats been going on since release on this forum (and others) just deserves the purpose. It takes people who havent already bought the game away.

 

Yes its its not really finished, yes it needs some improvement : but what, we're not gazillions playing this kind of games around the world, throwing it to flames 1 month after release will just leave us all "comme des cons"

 

My 2 euros

[Yakdriver]

The original did not allow mods.
Mods are nothing that the devs allowed.

The original devs hardly listened to the crowd either.

[Tektolnes]

Passing on playing BOS for the moment as:

 

1. No graphical options and I can't make my game look how I want it to look. I know I can make it look better than it does currently but devs have blocked me from doing it. So I'm not buying anything more until they change this bad idea. 

 

2. I only play MP (when not forced by a crappy game design mechanic to unlock stuff) and I'd prefer to play 100 player CloD than 32 player BOS. Also the radar and stuff on expert MP servers is annoying me.

 

I'll probably check back once MP is more populated but unless some fundamental design features of the game change in the future my money will be going elsewhere when it comes to future developments. 

[indiaciki]

[Rama]

The original did not allow mods.

Mods are nothing that the devs allowed.

That's not true.

Many planes and maps were mods developped by third parties, and this started during the first year after the release. The crowd don't remember it since all these mods were delivered in official releases. I was part of some of the mod teams, and I'm sure that almost everybody now think that the Normandy, Norway, Burma, Desert, Bessarabia maps were official, but they were all mods. Lot of planes also (there was even a web site showing the progresses of the different projects) Soon a big part of the content was mods, made by benevolent third parties.

 

The original devs hardly listened to the crowd either.

That's also untrue, they did in many case... but in some cases not (and that's the only thing the crows remember).

[IckyATLAS]

I do not play much because in the uranus part of the campaign it was all too repetitive and boring in the end. I am afraid that all the rest will be similar so I am not very motivated.

The sim is excellent graphics everything is top notch, but the environment is too empty. There is no real battle going around. Missions are all the same.

For me the point system is not interesting and the unlocks a very negative thing. I am not really motivated to unlock the stuff. 

 

I would have been interested much more into a pilot career system that is much more immersive. You start as a basic recruit that just finished pilot school and there you go. First you fly as a wingmate to a leader and slowly you go up the ladder until you become ace, squadron leader, group or wing leader or more plus the medal system. That would motivate me. Points and unlocks just make me play at other games.

[Yakdriver]

Differentiate...
content developped by third parties such as planes, maps and effects...
they were then sent to the devs.
who would review, ask for improvements, and only THEN accept and incorporate into the official game.

This is not Modding, this is adding third party content.

Modding... Modding as such only started once the SFS format was cracked, by Qtim (?) and a select few who then started the Allaircraftarcade thing...
and the community was in uproar because those that dared to use mods online were cheaters and all that...

One thing is to send stuff to the devs for incorporation, the other thing is incorporating without approval, bypassing the official channels.

think of the SFS file check option for online games... there is/was a built in function to check for file integrity.
that is to prevent modded games from participating in an unmodded session, and is not a simple mods on/mods off switch...

[Mac_Messer]

 

 

But....Then original IL-2 didn't become number one in 1 year or 2, it took 5 years before it was playable.

No, not really. IL2 was a major leap compared to anything that was on the market back then. People played it long time in sp before the mp began being actually interesting. It was almost like the other way around. Strong sp with static campaign but very weak mp with lags. From my pov it took 2 years to work up the mp to what IL2 has been famous for.

[ShamrockOneFive]

The game is primarily distibuted online, and has been initially announced as a single player online sim. So the requirements about internet connection shouldn't be a surprise, that's just how it works.

We're fixing it, sorry for these inconveniences, I know how annoying it can be.

Working on it. When you'll see dozens of servers with 3-4 pilots on each - that's it, that's the day when everyone has a dserver.

Working on it. On both things of course.

Zak, that's a point well made about the online distribution and campaign mode, however, recent gaming history has shown what a weak point that is and can be and how troublesome it can be for some players. I'm fortunate to have a solid internet connection with high reliability and little downtime (*fingers crossed*) but others are not so lucky - and perhaps more problematic is what would happen in say 10 years time if I still wanted to play BoS - can we be guaranteed that the campaign system will still be there for certain? Difficult to say.

 

Designing stuff this way makes me afraid for the future and for games preservation. Short term it seems to work but long term it makes me worry that we'll still be playing the old classic games way longer than anything released now.

 

More needs to be done (and not exclusively 777 Studios either).

Edited November 18, 2014 by ShamrockOneFive

[mb339pan]

why MP was limited to 32 slots?

[Mac_Messer]

i stopped playing because i only care about multiplayer, and multiplayer isnt fun without a balanced planeset

 

every now and then i jump in and fly a 109 and laugh at how inadequate the russian planes are in comparison, then i dont open the game for another 2 weeks

If the developper team puts up a good fmb, you will be pleasantly surprised how well the VVS aircraft can cope when placed in the Stalingrad historical campaign context.

[Mac_Messer]

I p

We have a Catch 22 situation here I'm afraid , to improve on what we have already and get more content Devs need money , but there seem to be people who are not willing to give them any money until things are improved .

In my opinion the state of uncertainty of the BoS future doesn`t help new sales. Announcing a pending expansion or new standalone maps/aircraft could go a long way to tell people that this is a sim that plans on staying much longer, providing upgraded IL2 experience.

[LAL_Luny]

No, not really. IL2 was a major leap compared to anything that was on the market back then. People played it long time in sp before the mp began being actually interesting. It was almost like the other way around. Strong sp with static campaign but very weak mp with lags. From my pov it took 2 years to work up the mp to what IL2 has been famous for.

 

+1 on that we had to wait til hyperlobby integration before the MP took off, before that we only had direct IP connect to set up MP.

 

That's not true.

Many planes and maps were mods developped by third parties, and this started during the first year after the release. The crowd don't remember it since all these mods were delivered in official releases. I was part of some of the mod teams, and I'm sure that almost everybody now think that the Normandy, Norway, Burma, Desert, Bessarabia maps were official, but they were all mods. Lot of planes also (there was even a web site showing the progresses of the different projects) Soon a big part of the content was mods, made by benevolent third parties.

 

That's also untrue, they did in many case... but in some cases not (and that's the only thing the crows remember).

 

They took quite some time to be officially integrated, because they were quality checked.

 

Yes the sps file system was made to avoid "cheats" to sum up and it didnt take long for it to be treated as a vulgar zip. But "so what ?"

 

I personnaly flew with/against Oleg in the early days, and he enjoyed people's feedback, but not all of it

[Jason_Williams]

Zak, that's a point well made about the online distribution and campaign mode, however, recent gaming history has shown what a weak point that is and can be and how troublesome it can be for some players. I'm fortunate to have a solid internet connection with high reliability and little downtime (*fingers crossed*) but others are not so lucky - and perhaps more problematic is what would happen in say 10 years time if I still wanted to play BoS - can we be guaranteed that the campaign system will still be there for certain? Difficult to say.

 

Designing stuff this way makes me afraid for the future and for games preservation. Short term it seems to work but long term it makes me worry that we'll still be playing the old classic games way longer than anything released now.

 

More needs to be done (and not exclusively 777 Studios either).

 

Many worried about this with ROF, still going and going 5 years later. We would never leave users high and dry like that.

 

Jason

[Johnny_Red]

I don't play it anymore. I asked for a refund and got it. I was an EA and now I'm not. It didn't turn out to be the sim I was interested in. It turned into a game I have no interest in.

30 day ban is over, this is me signing off.

[Rjel]

I'm really not head over heels with this sim at this point. Not like I wanted or really even expected to be. But I have a very strong like for it. I am bored by the unlocks to the point I only fly one, sometimes two missions in it every few nights. I'd prefer more single missions to try out. Maybe those being a little more detailed than what we see in the campaign missions. But I still believe there is a lot to like here. When it's running well, it is an incredibly smooth running sim with beautiful scenery. Til it's proven to me otherwise, I still see a promising future for BoS. If people are dropping it as suggested, then I find that discouraging and a little short sighted. 

[CUJO_1970]

Haven't played in weeks.

[avlSteve]

I play daily, but I must admit that since unlocking the works, now I'm mostly only interested in MP, which has never been the case for me before.  Super anxious for FMB and DServer at this point. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

Many worried about this with ROF, still going and going 5 years later. We would never leave users high and dry like that.

 

Jason

 

We'll talk again in another 5 years

As for playing... I'm still playing BoS. But it doesn't have it's hooks into me. I'm having some fun sometimes and frustrating other times. I enjoyed my brief stints in the early access period and so I'm not sure what's changed right now. Some of the negative opinion out there has definitely soured things as has the actual issues that caused the negative opinions. I'll keep playing.

[JG1_Pragr]

No, not really. IL2 was a major leap compared to anything that was on the market back then. People played it long time in sp before the mp began being actually interesting. It was almost like the other way around. Strong sp with static campaign but very weak mp with lags. From my pov it took 2 years to work up the mp to what IL2 has been famous for.

If you talk about WWII sims you're probably right. If you talk about simulations in general then Il-2 was huge leap back in compare with Falcon 4.0 which was in time of Il-2 release 3 years old.

 

Anyway, I play BoS, CloD and DCS. And in my opinion the only thing that BoS loosing in these other two comparison is a cockpit details. Particularly in compare with CloD. But in all other aspects BoS is clear winner. That doesn't change my opinion that the game was released in not the best state. Missing FMB, multiplayer stats and forcing people to single player grind of mods is unforgivable failure nowadays. Especially when gaming becomes more and more online focus.

[Obelix]

Working on it. When you'll see dozens of servers with 3-4 pilots on each - that's it, that's the day when everyone has a dserver.

 

???

 

Don't understand your point of view.

 

How a squad (with 10 to 20 members) could organize a mission coop without a personnal server? How could we organized a multiplayer campaign like we've done with RoF?

 

Really don't understand

 

...

[Livai]

In my opinion the state of uncertainty of the BoS future doesn`t help new sales. Announcing a pending expansion or new standalone maps/aircraft could go a long way to tell people that this is a sim that plans on staying much longer, providing upgraded IL2 experience.

 

What help sales is a different question. But to ask what brings us or others back or to BoS like to the best days what BoS had to the 75% early access version. Now it goes that way 100, 64, 32 we downgrading. More Server thanks to Dserver with 32-limit on a huge Map? Sounds boring to me. We had 64 with room for more but promised was the 100? But we get at the end 32. What a deal.

 

Call the game just  " IL-2 Anniversary " and you see what happend. That help sales like all other publisher do with their old great games and it works very great. Why not with IL-2,too. But no it goes again a other way.

[J4SCrisZeri]

about me, well I am not a big online multiplayer, when I fight its more an infantry thing (ArmA III, Battlefield, MoH)

flying is a no-no for me since you are all good pilots and I would last less than 10 seconds

I play BoS every now and then, mainly using the QMB to create some situations, enjoy them, enjoy the good engine and the graphics and so on

The unlock thing is something I hate in ANY game. I have tried the autopilot thing, went to make my coffee, came back and found my plane flying in cirlces, with no tasks completed

So I dunno, maybe I will find the time and wish to complete objectives, maybe not.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

absolute only reason i am not playing it, is the 32 people limitation in the multiplayer servers. That's no fun at all, eagerly awaiting that they got reopenend again. As soon as they will, i will start playing it again a lot. Yesterday a buddy and me tried to fly the Sabre online in DCS. Horrible. By now it's just a pause in simulation stuff for me, i guess..

[=LD=Penshoon]

I'm still playing a lot!   

 

I spend most of my time in QMB just trying to improve my overall handling in the planes, from time to time I'll take the Yak out in multiplayer. I still feel like I have so much to learn! Started "flight sim gaming" around this time last year so I'm quite a greenhorn. 

[RydnDirty]

The thing is the developers will know exactly how many and how often, and for how long people are playing because of the requirement to check in with their server.

 

Perhaps these numbers are showing them significant numbers are playing and enjoying the game, perhaps not.

 

But a thread such as this won't be especially reflective of the actual player numbers, only the mood of those of us that frequent the forums.

 

FWIW, I'm waiting, not playing.

 

 

Yep thats about right . I'm stopped playing when they said I have to play SP.

If there is ever a good multiplayer server i'll play it. But I'm not gonna waste any more of my time shooting bots and flying autolevel x2 

[Livai]

absolute only reason i am not playing it, is the 32 people limitation in the multiplayer servers. That's no fun at all, eagerly awaiting that they got reopenend again. As soon as they will, i will start playing it again a lot.

 

To play on a huge mape with 32 people thats not fun, thats true. Reason to not to play it not. I play it still, too. The point is we had 64 and now we stay at 32 but where are the 100.  Was the Custom Graphic Settings not removed for better performance??? There is not much to explain why the 32 limit exist and what the reason for that are.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Superghostboy

[6S.Manu]

People above made good points: the impossibility to host a private mission is the first one IMO, while I really don't care about unlocks.

 

I've BoS installed and up-to-date, but there's something else that it's keeping me away from the stick: probably it's just me, but I've really big issue with immersion.

 

On CloD I can almost breath the saline air and the sun is warming my skin; when I rotate my head I feel to be inside the cockpit.

On BoS instead I feel like I've my head trapped on a fish bowl and I've great difficulties to check around myself and this greatly increases my frustration.

 

Some features are amazing, but I feel like to not really be there.

Edited November 19, 2014 by 6S.Manu

[Nil]

I reinstalled my computer all night, as one drive died on me. and I wanted to kick in the 240 GB SSD drive (with 5 years warranty!?) and a 2TB storage drive.
So right now I don't even have BoS installed.. and will not be until the U*****s go away, or are able to be modded away.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

To play on a huge mape with 32 people thats not fun, thats true. Reason to not to play it not. I play it still, too.

 

for me it is definitely a reason to play not. With this limitation the servers became dogfight/vulching only. No proper mission play, which could be seen before a lot. (like people making transport missions, bombing, ground attacking, requesting cover, and stuff like that..). That's all gone with this limitation. Only thing you can see are battles over the forward airfields. Right now it's vulch, or be vulched. Because that's almost the only possibility to encounter other planes. The rest of the map is wasteland. No reason to play right now

Edited November 19, 2014 by Celestiale

[No145_Bunny]

I think there are a considerable number of players and virtual squadrons that are just waiting for the FMB release and the ability to host their own server / coop missions.

 

I keep saying to anyone that will listen that Coops and the ability to design missions are all this game needs to make it a worthy successor to IL2 1946. Give us the tools developers and the community will do the rest.

 

Then you can sell us as many aircraft and maps as you want. We will buy them.

 

Currently the game is in a "wait" state which is a dangerous place to be, don't make us wait too long please, its very easy to lose interest in something. This is one reason I don't play it as much now, I don't want to spoil my excitement when we do get coops etc... after all there is only one map currently and if I use all my "snow hours" up before I really get my teeth into the game.... I will get bored.

 

Developers, you are on a knife edge of absolute brilliance and longevity or disaster and boredom. Please push it off the knife in the right direction :-)

 

Cheerypip

Bunster

Edited November 19, 2014 by No145_Bunny

[IckyATLAS]

I agree with some of the posts above. When IL2 came out it was far from perfect at the beginning, but it was a major step above all that was around, and very quickly it improved with new campaigns missions scenarios etc. Same for the Mission Builder that also at the beginning was pretty limited, but over time the library of objects became very large. You could not group and then duplicate groups and positioning objects like ships around the six axis of freedom was not possible. In fact the design of the maps made  working on the vertical axis very minimalistic and not realistic. But at that time it was again above all the rest.

 

 

In between we got spoiled. We got used to fluid smooth real time and excellent 3d graphics, high resolution, light effects, dynamics, texture, shaders, physical world simulation, particles, smoke fire heat effects, excellent sound etc. etc.

 

Now that IL2 BOS came out it has beautiful graphics and all what is necessary to have planes fly and fight realistically. Unfortunately this is not a game changer even if it is on the top tier. More and more the technical improvements are not anymore game changers. Nice to see for a few missions and then that's it, once the initial visual quality has been experimented there is nothing to make it last.

 

As a pilot you are an element in the middle of a war with battles that unwind around you. The game changer will be the use of the available computer power on our top machines  to make the AI work so that you feel this living environment around you and you can, up to a point, be part of it or not, and participate to the action at your will . But what you do must have an impact. If I bomb a base, a bridge, etc.. and come back later on another mission damages should be there maybe some repaired but every mission must not be like from scratch. Adding points maybe is ok for console games but here we speak about "simulation" of a WWII major battle that lasted for months.

 

It is that game AI intelligence added to a very rich dynamic environment that will be the game changer. At the moment BOS is clearly very far from there.

[jeanba]

Though there are things I don't like in thsi sim and I agree the usual critics (6-7 on 10), I am an early founder who is still playing.

 

I see the lack of FMB / unlocks as potentially reducing the duration of my enjoyment, but if nice solutions come before I get tired of the game, it will be ok !

 

So I for myself am rather positive, but I fully understand those people for which "end of enjoyment" time has already come

[Bearcat]

 ...

We have a Catch 22 situation here I'm afraid , to improve on what we have already and get more content Devs need money , but there seem to be people who are not willing to give them any money until things are improved .

 

A catch 22 indeed .. but from what I understand they had the money to make the sim and the EA money was not for that it was going towards expansions and improvements .. I think at this point and I could be wrong here but I think at this point the team's biggest problem is not money but time..

 

One ofthe reason the old IL2 was 'legendary' was that it had an easy to use FMB that allowed many people with little knowledge to make fantastic missions and campaigns.

 

The ME we are getting with BoS is the same or based on the RoF ME... a much more complicated affair that many could not get to grips with.

 

Have a look on the RoF forums for anything similar, especially on the campaign side......

 

+1.. and other things like it's net accessibility and other user input options.. also the scalability on the settings

 

...

BoS was at it's prime when it was 60-75% complete.

 

Whether or not that is fact or opinion remains to be seen but I do think that many would agree with you.

 

I think it's worse than that. 

 

The old IL2 FMB was great fun to use. Zooming in and placing your units in the 3D space and zooming out and placing your waypoints in the 2D space was both intuitive and fun.

 

I believe the fact that the ROF FMB is harder to use isn't the problem, it's the fact that it doesn't offer the fun aspect that helps keep mission builders motivated.

 

That is the operative word to be considered in every aspect of development moving forward.. FUN. That is what this is should be all about..

 

XP waste of time, it would of been better on MP, and worth it more play time on MP servers.  If XP wouldn't go down during the weekends, and it was on MP also inline with SP. I think more people would be on 

playing MP.

 

 

I agree.

 

 

But....Then original IL-2 didn't become number one in 1 year or 2, it took 5 years before it was playable.

No, not really. IL2 was a major leap compared to anything that was on the market back then. People played it long time in sp before the mp began being actually interesting. It was almost like the other way around. Strong sp with static campaign but very weak mp with lags. From my pov it took 2 years to work up the mp to what IL2 has been famous for.

 

I agree Mac.. in fact I think that by 2003 IL2 was pretty much the best WWII sim out.. it just took a lot of other folks to realize it.

[SeriousFox]

I don't play BoS these days because,

 

1. There's no players on the server when I'm able to play it due to different timezone.

2. MP missions are boring.

3. I lost my interest in this game after EA period. (I don't know why)

Edited November 19, 2014 by SeriousFox