Mission Editor

[PB0_Foxy]

Thank you for pointing this out. This is indeed the big advantage of the RoF ME.

Frequent mission builders can create a library of groups that can be loaded into new missions and easily adjusted. Once you have such a library, mission building is much easier and faster.

When the BoS mission builder is released, it would be a great help for newcomers that like to learn mission building in BoS, if various group files would be available for download. I hope such a project can be organized.

I'm currently thinking about creating a website with a forum about that.

A place like mission4today where people will be able to find mission editor tutorials, mission files (uploaded by users) and group files.

[Bearcat]

You mean a place like the old IL2 Center - Sturmovik Technika . That was where I saw the first FMB tutorial. While that is a good idea.. I think that it would be better to start a thread or a separate forum here for that once the ME is released.

[BlitzPig_EL]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL724688FAC76E4385

 

 

*Shudders*

 

That ME from RoF still makes my head explode.  I tried so many times to just make a simple two base DF scenario.  WAY to complicated for an old guy like me that is not a computer professional.

I hope that a lot of others can master it and come up with good missions for the sim.

 

I'll still miss making my own though, I did enjoy that in IL2.

[VBF-12_Stele]

I hope that someone in the community can come up with a DCG/UQMG/MM kind of deal to enhance the FMB with a more user friendly GUI in the interim.

 

I would love something like this. It would give the sim some longevity.

[Juri_JS]

I'm currently thinking about creating a website with a forum about that.

A place like mission4today where people will be able to find mission editor tutorials, mission files (uploaded by users) and group files.

That sounds like a good idea.

[BladeMeister]

Guys the thing we need to keep in mind with all of this is... this team has a plan and that plan does not involve them dropping the sim in a year. It also involves US. While I have not, nor will I probably ever be satisfied with every decision they make, for me if the past 2 years have taught me nothing else about this team, it is that they have planned their work and they are working their plan.1. As long as the sim works and is entertaining warts and all, I for one will continue to support it.2. The team's plan centers around delivering a product that can appeal to a broad spectrum of players while at the same time shortchanging no one. That means that some folks will be disappointed and that things will have to happen on their time frame not ours so. 3 we need to just be patient and look at what their actions indicate we can expect.

I will try to coment on your points above in a respectful way so that maybe you won't delete this Bearcat: I don't think I have ever seen anywhere that you have complained of a deleted or censored post when you present your observations or opinions. I hope that you and the other moderators and 1C/777 will extend me the same courtesy, as I am a paying Customer, just like all the other Customers posting here.

1.Without the inclusion of a FMB and a way to share and fly user made content, BOS commands a very short attention span from any serious sim pilot. The sim does work, that is a true fact, but after a mere few hours it is repetitive and generates very little incentive to keep flying it . The entertainment that I have experienced has been very short lived.

2. Addressing this statement: Possibly I am the only one, but so far, I feel short changed through the implementation of a very constricting  and handcuffed simulator.

3. From what I have read of there action and intended action, here on this BOS Official Forum, I can expect continued project support, to be treated as a Customer who doesn't know what he wants, nor how to use the product he has paid for. I can expect a FMB that is" not super intuitive"(not user friendly?), quicker than they originally announced(The ME will be released this year (90% sure)), this is good and no announced plans to try to satisfy the hardcore simmers desire to use and adjust BOS the way he would like to, which is customary to any high quality flight sim. I include this last part because of what Loft said in one of his first statements to this Community about the coming BOS Development:

 

"The path we chose is a complicated one, because the target audience of our product is quite limited. It’s not enough to love planes and to have an interest in history. You need at least to buy a joystick. But we’ll try to attract new players and to expand the interest in the gamer community. Always and anywhere when one really tries a simulator – not only flight sim – but any simulation – he gets immediately fascinated by the game process and becomes a real fan of the genre. Our goal is to make the first interest to motivate his first step in a proper direction. And we’ll sure work hard on it! I mean such things as the comfort of usage, game interface, and the other sides of the game.

 

And to the experienced avia-sim players I want to say: “Don’t worry! We know how to make our sim the way you’ll like it!”

 

I looked up "avia" and what I find is "committed", I assume this means committed or dedicated or hardcore sim players?  I honestly read this statement with great patience and expectation of when Loft intends to fulfill this stated plan of action? I am hoping very soon because I eagerly await its arrival, as i am an "avia-sim player", Some of these are admirable plans and I hope they come to pass as BOS will be a better Sim for it

After reading your post I felt compelled to share how I  experience BOS and 1C/777s  performance through your viewpoints and observations. i hope you don't mind, but we seem to differ in our perceptions of the current status and coming development of BOS, The Successor to IL2.

 

S!Blade<><

 

[312_strycekFido]

sorry, devs have perfectly fine mission editor, but won't release ti to public, because they think we are too stupid to use it

 

Apparently not true anymore, sometimes I'm glad to be wrong

 

 

 

Devs (Jason) addressed that misconception in this very thread, is should be available very soon.

 

 

 

Ok, my fault. Turns out they changed their minds afterall. From past discussions about ME in EA forums, I got impression, that they won't release ROF style ME for BOS to general public, because of bad feedback they from ROF players (its complicated and other similar complaints from some users). Devs took some forum flak for that decision and promised us easy to use ME for BOS, which I thought would come in like Q3 2015 if we're lucky.

 

Now I am reading that they are polishing ROF ME for BOS and will release it soon. Which I am very happy about.

 

Only problem about this is, that I wrote reply to question in orignial post, without actually reading the thread and Jason's "good news" post first. I didn't knew devs changed their mind and ... well ... we got what we were promised most of the time, so I had no reason to think that devs changed their mind..

 

NEXT TIME I WILL READ THE ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE REPLYING, SORRY FOR BEING AN AS*****E ABOUT THIS.

Edited November 19, 2014 by 312_strycekFido

[SYN_Jedders]

Btw Bob Vanderstok, the guy who made the YouTube mission tutorial in SYN_Vander. Many of the groups that are used in rof FMB are already created for BoS and I'm sure Vander will willingly contribute to any thread/website with his knowledge. I'm sure that a database would be added to by many mission makers who already have got to grips with the BoS ME.

 

Release the damn thing

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

I watched some of the YouTube ROF mission editor tutorials - seems simple enough to me with lots of flexibility to create smart complex missions. I always found IL2s out of the box mission editor lacked things like the triggers shown in the ROF ME tutorials resulting in very plain missions. Waiting eagerly for the release as what I have seen in the tutorials looked fantastic.

[Jason_Williams]

There are two schools of thought when it comes to mission building and the value of a Mission Editor. The first is that a good mission needs lots and lots and lots of scenery objects and AI objects running around the map to make it interesting even if you don't always interact with them. This is what is possible with 1946 and granted a lot of people like that idea. The other option is to focus on triggers and logic that can do all sorts of complex actions, but probably not have as many AI objects on the map. This is what our system does well and what our powerful ME provides. Those that have taken the time to learn how our ME works can make some cool stuff and very interesting mission scenarios can be built. Maybe not as many AI objects as 1946, but some strong logic can be applied to make very fun missions with plenty of scenery objects as well. Neither camp has a monopoly on the perfect ME or mission system, but ours is not as inept or even as complicated as some would have you believe. 

 

As has already been demonstrated by Vander, Prangster, Pat Wilson and others with ROF, BOS has the same potential and no doubt some talented users will take full advantage of our system to entertain everyone. If some enterprising and talented person stepped up, they could create an entire Campaign system without us even being involved. As Pat Wilson has already shown us with ROF and our technology.

 

One scenario I want hardcore users to consider is this - We find ways to bring new users into the community who may happen to like the more casual elements we initially offer. And when they are hooked and when they are confident enough they can try some of the more hardcore online or SP missions or campaigns created by the community and become as hardcore as you and maybe join a squad. Together we can expand the hardcore community by working together, not against each other as we seem to be doing now. This has always been my intention with BOS after launch. Until we have the Deserver and ME and Skins this all seems far fetched I know, but these elements are coming and once they are here we can try new things to build a better sense of community which is what the hardcore crowd likes.

 

Jason

[Yakdriver]

well i see new stuff happening at this minute on the syndicate server - transports actually working, blocked airfields with no planes a new frontline element...

someone, somewhere, is getting a bit better at using the available tools.
and i like dat...

so triggers it is! always hated the damn things. Logic is not fun, logic is mental effort. Like math and multiple-unknown equations.
sigh.

lets do this :-)

[Jason_Williams]

The Syndicate team knows exactly what they are doing technically. 

 

Jason

[=LD=Hethwill]

RoF ME seems all about a flow all too identical to tabletop gaming.

 

You set up the table with the terrain cloth you going to use. Let's say you want a ash grey city and open fields around it in winter ice-scape. You choose the appropriate terrain cloth and put it on the table.

 

Now, scenery. No tabletop game is ever considered without proper scenery. Now, we, being great collectors, already have our own hand made custom build scenery. Can be a single house or can be a group of scenery glued into a base, like a village or artillery embankments. So we take what we want from the shelves and put it over the cloth. Yay ! It starts to look like a game now, not only a fancy table.

 

Oh, now, who is fighting who ? Red vs Blues !!! Great, a classic. But which side of the table will they play on ? Let's mark it. You pick a long piece of string and mark the frontlines. Done.

 

Now what ? Yes. Deployment. Choose where your forces will be, what types, their facings and so on. Oh and what's cool about being a collector is that we already have every shelf organized so we get specific formations already done and ready to deploy. Say I want a Squadron of Planes with a specific name, i just need to take out the box. It will have all the proper models, and everything named. I just need to place them where I want.

 

Perfect !!! But how the hell I play it now ? Well, you should have a rulebook somewhere ?

 

Yes, Objectives, Triggers, all that invisible stuff.

 

It will be great fun.

[Juri_JS]

If some enterprising and talented person stepped up, they could create an entire Campaign system without us even being involved.

 

 

I guess you are talking about something like Pat Wilsons campaign generator, but what about combining missions created in the ME into a campaign, like it was possible in the old Il-2. These user-made campaigns in the old Il-2 had statistics and the player was able to get new ranks and awards.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but If I remember correctly this isn't possible in RoF. Will it be possible in BoS?

[Jason_Williams]

I guess you are talking about something like Pat Wilsons campaign generator, but what about combining missions created in the ME into a campaign, like it was possible in the old Il-2. These user-made campaigns in the old Il-2 had statistics and the player was able to get new ranks and awards.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but If I remember correctly this isn't possible in RoF. Will it be possible in BoS?

 

All this is possible with a 3rd Party app like PWCG. Someone just needs to build it their way and they can make it as super hardcore and historical as they want. As I mentioned in another thread, finding someone to make a GUI to support such a tool is hard to do.

 

Jason

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

sorry, devs have perfectly fine mission editor, but won't release ti to public, because they think we are too stupid to use it

Repeating a falsehood doesn't make it true.

[Yakdriver]

The Syndicate team knows exactly what they are doing technically. 

 

Jason

well if that is not a compliment to the SYN team, then i do not know what is.

:-)

[BlitzPig_EL]

There are two schools of thought when it comes to mission building and the value of a Mission Editor. The first is that a good mission needs lots and lots and lots of scenery objects and AI objects running around the map to make it interesting even if you don't always interact with them. This is what is possible with 1946 and granted a lot of people like that idea. The other option is to focus on triggers and logic that can do all sorts of complex actions, but probably not have as many AI objects on the map. This is what our system does well and what our powerful ME provides. Those that have taken the time to learn how our ME works can make some cool stuff and very interesting mission scenarios can be built. Maybe not as many AI objects as 1946, but some strong logic can be applied to make very fun missions with plenty of scenery objects as well. Neither camp has a monopoly on the perfect ME or mission system, but ours is not as inept or even as complicated as some would have you believe. 

 

As has already been demonstrated by Vander, Prangster, Pat Wilson and others with ROF, BOS has the same potential and no doubt some talented users will take full advantage of our system to entertain everyone. If some enterprising and talented person stepped up, they could create an entire Campaign system without us even being involved. As Pat Wilson has already shown us with ROF and our technology.

 

One scenario I want hardcore users to consider is this - We find ways to bring new users into the community who may happen to like the more casual elements we initially offer. And when they are hooked and when they are confident enough they can try some of the more hardcore online or SP missions or campaigns created by the community and become as hardcore as you and maybe join a squad. Together we can expand the hardcore community by working together, not against each other as we seem to be doing now. This has always been my intention with BOS after launch. Until we have the Deserver and ME and Skins this all seems far fetched I know, but these elements are coming and once they are here we can try new things to build a better sense of community which is what the hardcore crowd likes.

 

Jason

 

Thanks for this post.

 

It actually has me rethinking my position a bit.

[SYN_Skydance]

Flew a great objective based mission on Syndicate Server tonight.

 

There is room for improvements and changes, and they will come.

 

If you listen carefully you can hear the cogs spinning in Jedders head as he thinking up ideas and problems for Vander to solve.

 

The missions are gonna be great, especially when we pass the 33 player mark!!

 

Sky

Edited November 21, 2014 by SYN_Skydance

[deleted@31403]

DCS has a very complicated MIssion Editor with triggers and lua script. There are people in that community that took the time to learn it and help others make missions. The DCS mission Editor can make very interesting missions that have a very dynamic feel to it. I like Jason's vision on this because it will be able to do more then what IL2 1946 can do if it is anything close to the DCS Mission Editor.

Why is this community continue to try to eat its own? I think we all can make this work into a very large community for years to come. I am looking forward to the dserver and the mission builder. Lets give Jason the chance to pull this off. I for one will support to have the chance of other fronts to come.

[SYN_Jedders]

The Syndicate team knows exactly what they are doing technically. 

 

Jason

If you only knew ;-)

 

Thanks tho!

[Aracno]

. Until we have the Deserver and ME and Skins this all seems far fetched I know, but these elements are coming and once they are here we can try new things to build a better sense of community which is what the hardcore crowd likes.

 

Jason

 

You are all talking about ME and Dserver and I like it, but still i have not understood if we will be able to host as client, i mean, i will need a dedicated server or i will be able to host missions for/with my friends on my pc?

Thanks in advance for reply.

[Sim]

You are all talking about ME and Dserver and I like it, but still i have not understood if we will be able to host as client, i mean, i will need a dedicated server or i will be able to host missions for/with my friends on my pc?

 

It will be a Windows program (EXE file) I assume. So you will be able to launch it on your PC, or on a dedicated server machine.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Sim

[312_strycekFido]

Repeating a falsehood doesn't make it true.

 

You made the same mistake I did. Next time read the whole topic before replying ;-)

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12871-mission-editor/page-3?do=findComment&comment=203130

[Bearcat]

I will try to coment on your points above in a respectful way so that maybe you won't delete this Bearcat: I don't think I have ever seen anywhere that you have complained of a deleted or censored post when you present your observations or opinions. I hope that you and the other moderators and 1C/777 will extend me the same courtesy, as I am a paying Customer, just like all the other Customers posting here.

1.Without the inclusion of a FMB and a way to share and fly user made content, BOS commands a very short attention span from any serious sim pilot. The sim does work, that is a true fact, but after a mere few hours it is repetitive and generates very little incentive to keep flying it . The entertainment that I have experienced has been very short lived.

2. Addressing this statement: Possibly I am the only one, but so far, I feel short changed through the implementation of a very constricting and handcuffed simulator.

3. From what I have read of there action and intended action, here on this BOS Official Forum, I can expect continued project support, to be treated as a Customer who doesn't know what he wants, nor how to use the product he has paid for. I can expect a FMB that is" not super intuitive"(not user friendly?), quicker than they originally announced(The ME will be released this year (90% sure)), this is good and no announced plans to try to satisfy the hardcore simmers desire to use and adjust BOS the way he would like to, which is customary to any high quality flight sim.

S!Blade<><

Why would you think I or any other mod would delete your post simply because you complain? Regardless to what some may say as I have said before elsewhere, that is not how we roll here. It is all about the delivery. Look by this time most folks know what is goung on in BoS. Don't think because the devs have not made some grand statement concerning every issue that many find wrong in BoS that they are not aware of them. It is obvious that at this juncture many feel shortchanged but as I have been saying repeatedly not only here but on other boards as you very well know, BoS is not going anywhere.. niether is support for it. Just because it is not the full blown sim that so many expected at this point in it's development does not mean that it will not improve over time and much of that IMO, based on what I have seen, will be sooner rather than later. I have chosen what I percieve to be the better path in dealing with the current state of affairs, the path of patience as the alternative bears no fruit at all save frustration and it is pointless to continue to take a half empty view of this glass because the spicket is still working ... so it will be filled.. I believe that that is the best train of thought for all of us at this point.

[FS_Fenice_1965]

In my opinion a ME coming from ROF is better than no ME.

Anyway I hope that the project of developing a ME with the "game itself" soul of 1946 will not be delayed or worst abandoned.

The success of IL2 mission editor wasn't on the features. Was on the fact that was entarteining to use....ME shouldn't be seen simply as a tool, should be conceived like a "game in the game".

This is the easiest way to have a lot of people creating content. I know that many of the best mission 1946 builders hardly spent their time playing with the sim itself flying. This is because building missions in IL2 1946 was rewarding itself.

Otherwise building missions becomes boring as hell....1946 builder was satisfying more artists than technicians.....

Freedom for creativity is the key IMHO  

[Todesgefahr]

A mission editior is extremely helpful for practising dive bombing and other complicated tasks. You can just place out a target at a pretty close distance and let your Stuka allready be at a good altitude before you go some hundred meters until its time to dive. With other words, you can practise alot without losing a frustrating amount of time (which you do in the regular missions when you have to fly in 7-8 minutes before you reach the target area).

[Gambit21]

Apparently not true anymore, sometimes I'm glad to be wrong

 

Nice try.

Was never true - at all - even for a second.

[39bn_pavig]

Having tinkered with a bunch of mission editors, from Arma to straight out Unity3D grunt work, there is a fine line between a powerful editor and a difficult editor. The RoF tools look to have about the right level of complexity. To me they look about similar complexity to Arma3 - some places less polished, some places less obscure than Arma, which has lots of legacy oddities. But the one thing they do look is powerful. I think it is only a matter of time once we have the full toolset before some more dedicated mission editors gain mastery of it.

 

It is generally the case that less people become expert mission makers than many of us would like, so it is good for those who do have the dedication to expertise to have the most powerful toolset. Unfortunately that may mean that mere mortals will struggle with complexity of the tools, but without intensive development it is very difficult to create a system which scales both in complexity of content and to a wide range of technical skill levels. 

[Jaws2002]

Repeating a falsehood doesn't make it true.

Not soon. We don`t have anyone on station named "editor interface and usability". For development we use ROF editor as-is. But believe me this is not what you and community want. This system tooooooooo complex to have fun. And only if we can rise money from customers after release, we can spend it to hire someone talented to do this job.

 

For guys we know from ROF we can provide editor as-is but not for sharing. And they can start mission creating at the middle of summer.

Actually this is exactly what Loft said. "Toooooo complex" for us. Just like the free f11 view was too free for us:

 

 

Posted 06 May 2014 - 09:12

 

SYN_Requiem, on 06 May 2014 - 09:09, said:

 

Cheers mate, I just wanted you to know that the F11 camera is really important because it is the only camera which isn't linked to an object and has a freedom of movement to it. Many people have trouble implementing what they read in books into a three dimensional environment when they get in the plane, so this ability to visualise all the maneuvers they read about from a stationary perspective really helps in their understanding. For me to say this camera view is essential for what I do is an understatement

 

=FB=LOFT

 

Bat some users use this camera to blame us. They use it to travel inside objects and ets. This is why we remove this camera during early stage. Strange but then you start to do something, some people start to hate you only because you do something

Edited November 30, 2014 by Jaws2002

[LukeFF]

Actually this is exactly what Loft said. "Toooooo complex" for us. 

 

Slow down, reread what Loft wrote, and try to understand in what context Loft made that statement. 

[[KWN]T-oddball]

Slow down, reread what Loft wrote, and try to understand in what context Loft made that statement. 

 

 

 

Not soon. We don`t have anyone on station named "editor interface and usability". For development we use ROF editor as-is. But believe me this is not what you and community want. This system tooooooooo complex to have fun. And only if we can rise money from customers after release, we can spend it to hire someone talented to do this job. For guys we know from ROF we can provide editor as-is but not for sharing. And they can start mission creating at the middle of summer.

 

 

no matter what your particular interpretation is he is claiming that the ME is "complex"  and Jason has also said this...how ever what is not true is Loft's claim of But believe me this is not what you and community want.  remember the old adage "better to have and not need then to need and not have." I think the Dev's underestimate the persist nature of a lot of the community, I personally have gone through the 10 lessons put up on youtube by one of the SYN guys and can say yes... it's not really friendly but it is not beyond reach and given the collection of how-to's the RoF community and Dev's has put together just makes it easier.