Feeling the Force feedback in BoS?

[EAF19_Swoop]

10 years ago I swapped my new CH stick for a MS FF2 and have never looked back. With some help in toning down some of the forces (from my mate Ming), IL2 "felt" something really special. Diving down I could feel the elevators load up then pulling straight up and waiting for the first gentle stall buffeting and the stick go light, timing a hard rudder kick for that perfect hammerhead. It was just a joy to fly about in there.

 

Sadly Force feedback died the death along with VR, holograms and 3D. Well with VR hopefully on its way back, will BoS put some efforts into force feedback? It adds so much to the immersion and has any flight sim really done it justice yet?

 

Hope the new Il2 does...

Edited September 8, 2013 by EAF19Swoop

[ImPeRaToR]

considering that the predecessor of BOS (Rise of Flight) has excellent FFB implementation I am guessing BOS will as well. In fact, iirc either LOFT or Jason said that they will try to make it even better.

[BFsSmurfy]

I think it was there unless I imagined it, I think the stick stiffened when I was flying the 109, perhaps some of the others who had a go can remember????

[Bearcat]

The thing in IL2 with FFB that is so porked is :

 

1- You cant select different FFB.. as in stick forces, gunshake, or stalls.. it is either on or off. If it is on they you get the full monty. If it is off all you get is stick forces. No in between.

 

2- If you have FFB enabled if you ALT+TAB, WIN key or your screen minimizes in any way.. your FFB is done and it will not come back until you reboot the sim. It was not always like that but after one of the patches it became that way.

 

Back in the day when most PCs had only one monitor often you might minimize to check TS or anything.. but you could come back and your FFB would be fine..

[71st_AH_Hooves]

well it works great in RoF and its the same engine so I cant imagine its not going to have the same superb level of support.  I got out my 940 and modified it for a center stick configuration in anticipation of BoS

 

[Bearcat]

Hooves do you find that due to the length of your stick that you wind up putting more pressure on it than you normally would if it were shorter? Have you noticed any premature wear from that mod?

[71st_AH_Hooves]

The actual "force" part of the force feedback is degraded due to the extension as the fulcrum of the stick is near the base. But I always founf that to be fatiging anyway. The "feeeback" is still tbere is spades. Ie: stall buffeting, gun rattle, ground shake. This just feels much more realistic to me, as tbis is where the pilots had to reach to control thier aircraft.

[EAF19_Swoop]

Nice pit Hooves I've got the CH throttle and rudder with the MS FF2 stick, how's that G940?

 

The reason I asked is FF was added later to Il2 and even Cod. Being retro fitted meant I had to use Fedit to adjust the feedback as Bearcat pointed out. I hadn't heard that Jason and co said they would include and improve it, good news as imho in our genre Force feedback is quintessential.

 

Might get that reconditioned MS FF2 I've got my eye on at Ebay now.

 

Cheers

Edited September 9, 2013 by EAF19Swoop

[OBT-Psycho]

considering that the predecessor of BOS (Rise of Flight) has excellent FFB implementation I am guessing BOS will as well. In fact, iirc either LOFT or Jason said that they will try to make it even better.

 

Nice pit Hooves I've got the CH throttle and rudder with the MS FF2 stick, how's that G940?

 

The reason I asked is FF was added later to Il2 and even Cod. Being retro fitted meant I had to use Fedit to adjust the feedback as Bearcat pointed out. I hadn't heard that Jason and co said they would include and improve it, good news as imho in our genre Force feedback is quintessential.

 

Might get that reconditioned MS FF2 I've got my eye on at Ebay now.

 

Cheers

 

it seems to ring some bells in my mind...

 

and after a quick research in a summerizing topic : 

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?do=findComment&comment=7273

 

question 5

 

 

I really am intrigued by that as I found the FFB effect in RoF oustanding!

 

I was really disappointed by these in CoD at a point I was about to think that the G940 I just bought when I switched to CoD was broken or something. Rise of Flight proved it totally cool reliable at this point, and really comfrotable and enjoyable. and that despite some little quirks quickly figured out...

[VeryOldMan]

Always  funny how peopel have different views on things. I always hated FFB :/ Always felt  unrealistic for me.. with too much different things being transmitted trought he stick.. when most of these things woudl be felt on other parts of the pilot body.

[SKG51_robtek]

Always  funny how peopel have different views on things. I always hated FFB :/ Always felt  unrealistic for me.. with too much different things being transmitted trought he stick.. when most of these things woudl be felt on other parts of the pilot body.

Isn't it better to feel something instead of nothing??????

[Matt]

RoF was the only flightsim i played where i like FFB a lot. Unfortunately, my current stick doesn't have it. But if there will be a FFB mod for the Warthog in the feature, i would buy that (don't want to imagine how expensive that would be...).

 

Regardless, i think i'll plug-in my FFB2, just to test how the FFB works in BoS.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Like I eluded to earlier, the feedback I'm interested in is the stall buffeting mainly. I imagine that was felt in the entire plane but its a bit to much to ask to get my whole pit to shutter. If the buttkicker device functioned on ffb input rather than audio that would be an amazing addition to a fab pit.

[FuriousMeow]

I wonder if there's a way to modify the FF2's base into a sort of a buttkicker type configuration. That way all of the FFB effects are all ready for it, just have to modify the motors to be larger with bigger weights on them to create a bigger effect and mount it in a chair. I've always wanted the whole chair FFB effect... wonder if something like that is doable? I have another joystick, so this would just be an addon - but since it wouldn't be the primary joystick I don't know if the FFB effects would be sent through to it.

Edited September 9, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[RAF74_Winger]

Like I eluded (sic) to earlier, the feedback I'm interested in is the stall buffeting mainly. I imagine that was felt in the entire plane

 

This is a common misconception, pre-stall buffeting is felt through the stick - only in the pitch axis.

 

The reason for this is due to washout in the wings, meaning that the inboard section of wing has a higher angle of incidence to that of the outboard section. When the stall is approached the inboard section stalls first, so the air splitting off from the aerofoil at some point ahead of the trailing edge impinges on the tailplane and elevators, causing this oscillation of the stick back to front. The effect this has on the airframe is so minor that you wouldn't really notice it above the normal vibration in flight. In fact some aeroplanes, due to their geometry, don't have any pre-stall buffet.

 

Stall strips may be installed to encourage the spoiling of airflow and ensure pre-stall buffet at high angles of attack as shown in the attached picture:

 

 

When the aeroplane is fully stalled, this is immediately apparent through loss of lift (g-break) and uncommanded roll. The vestibular symptoms of this cannot be simulated through force feedback.

 

 

 

it seems to ring some bells in my mind...

 

and after a quick research in a summerizing topic : 

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?do=findComment&comment=7273

 

question 5

 

 

I really am intrigued by that as I found the FFB effect in RoF oustanding!

 

I can't pretend to know where the developers intend to take their implementation of FFB, but there are some things that could be done a little bit better:

 

1. Improve the depth and granularity of the pre-stall buffet - an experienced (on type) pilot knows exactly how far away from the stall he is due to the magnitude of the pre-stall buffet.

 

2. Add the weight of the control surfaces to the force feedback mechanism - the elevator in RoF does not require constant force applied to keep it in the commanded position with zero forward speed and low engine power, so I know that effect is not there.

 

None of this is intended as a criticism of the developers, I have never seen a better implementation of FFB than is present in RoF.

 

W.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

cool winger!  yeah the buffet is in the stick and though it doesn't get much stronger.  I can tell when Im in the buffet, and then experience takes over as to how long or hard I can pull from there.  At any rate something is better than nothing and I really like the way this mod is working out in my pit!

[Pupo]

The thing in IL2 with FFB that is so porked is :

 

1- You cant select different FFB.. as in stick forces, gunshake, or stalls.. it is either on or off. If it is on they you get the full monty. If it is off all you get is stick forces. No in between.

 

2- If you have FFB enabled if you ALT+TAB, WIN key or your screen minimizes in any way.. your FFB is done and it will not come back until you reboot the sim. It was not always like that but after one of the patches it became that way.

 

Back in the day when most PCs had only one monitor often you might minimize to check TS or anything.. but you could come back and your FFB would be fine..

 

 

regarding 2, i never had this issue with any sim (not even bf3), is there anything i can do to try and help you? (Config files?), i have a g940.

 

regarding 1, couldnt agree any more, specially in COD some effects were way overdone, and made FFB a pain in the ass ( the cannon shake, and the engine damage shake, stalled my plane away from the sky )

Edited September 10, 2013 by E69Pupo