Help in ordering a VKB Fat King Cobra MkII joystick

[Sokol1]

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=172908&d=1388258946

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=172914&d=1388265019

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=172919&d=1388267531

 

See as 1 USB device...

 

Sokol1

 

 

[SYN_Vorlander]

Thx Sokol

[SYN_Vorlander]

Sokol,

 

Do you know when the connector will be released? It will assist greatly if it only recognize 1 USB connector.

 

.

[Marrond]

Any news on new batch? I think I will get one (especialy since they're working on KG13)

[SYN_Vorlander]

Anybody have news from VKB?

 

I have been mailing Eduard at VKB Europe for the last month. No reply.

 

Thanks

[ST_Pirato]

I've sent an Email about 1 1/2 weeks ago without a response yet.

[SYN_Vorlander]

Hi Gents,

 

Some new news from VKB.

 

Warthog adapters for the Black Mamba joysticks

 

 http://flightsimcontrols.com/2014/02/black-mamba-availability-and-new-kits/

[DeafBee]

That Black Mamba comes with Force Feedback??

[SYN_Vorlander]

That Black Mamba comes with Force Feedback??

No sir.

[Nage]

Mamba/King Cobra uses superb state of art gimbal fully metal mechanism. Its just pitty they choosed handle/grip which is ergonomicaly catastrophic (button placement, thumb rest well bellow top of teh stick where all the hats and switches are). Sure, you can use adaptors for other grips but then you need to buy another HOTAS (warthog, x65 etc) and who is making grips for himself?

 

on ergonomy you can see this russian review of Cobra MKI - King Cobra? (same metal gimbal mechanism and same grip as Mamba). Feel free to use google translate:

 

http://www.joysticks.ru/joysticks/models/king_cobra_mk_i.shtml

Edited February 16, 2014 by tikvic

[Lusekofte]

There is one used for sale at SimHQ but the seller is not replying. In ATAG site there is two who want to sell it. They say it is a pain in the ass to program and when its done , you might have to do it again. It look awesome but it had or have problems

[Sokol1]

Its just pitty they choosed handle/grip which is ergonomicaly catastrophic (button placement, thumb rest well bellow top of teh stick where all the hats and switches are).

 

Actual (plastic) grip used in VKB Mamba was developed for low cost Defender Cobra joystick - and this design are result of extended discussion with Russian simer's in Sukhoi Forum back in 2007:

 

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=77088&stc=1&d=1254696789

 

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=48961

http://habrahabr.ru/post/141524/

 

As usual in "Flight Simulator" world, no consensus about the design - somewhat inspired in Russian military grips.

 

I see the "polemical" (shoulder) button more practical to using than similar one in CH Fighterstick/Warthot/Cougar/F22PRO.

His placement is similar to used in F-15/F-18 grip. Of course, opnion and taste...

 

And since the grip is plastic is easy MOD'able:

 

http://s57.radikal.ru/i156/1202/16/ee40213b8db4.jpg

 

The most important is, unlike other brands VKB allow the possibility to use other brands grips.

 

Sokol1

Edited February 17, 2014 by Sokol1

[SYN_Vorlander]

I enjoy using the mamba. Was not very excited when i first used the stick. Now. I love the feel of the current stick.

[Sokol1]

 

grOOmi works as an engineer in KNAAPO and perfectly modeled in 3D. So based on ergonomic handles fighter-bomber Su-34 began to emerge RUS (Defender Cobra)

 

The "inspiration" and his left "shoulder" button.

 

Sokol1

Edited February 17, 2014 by Sokol1

[Nage]

Like I said, King Cobra`s and Mamba`s mechanism is superb. Durable and precise. The grip/handle is indeed "taken" from entrly level Cobra m5 defender and its plastic with super cheap feeling when pressing buttons. Ergonomy is not for everyone, many didnt get used to it as you must do some effort to put a thumb (which was resting below top of the stick where all the hats and buttons are) on buttons or hats. Im not sying the grip is ugly. Lets say they could do some quality plastic grip (metal grip isnt a must IMHO) which would be a stylized russian grip, more suitable for simmers. Because as you know, real pilots use glowes and they far less often are pressing any buttons (fire button etc). Their thumb is more like on hats most of teh time or on the rest. Its cool that you can use adaptors for warthog, x65 rtc grips. But what if you have some cheap joystick and you want quality joystick like Mamba`s base with fully metal mechanism from VKB but you want to have a "better grip", not that entry level stuff from defender. I hope they will make something about it.

On a sidenote, I know they are making a metal grip for MAmba but its more like real ww2 like replica without the handrest which is again "realism" without considering simmers special needs.

Most simmers and gamers are not into modding.

But to be fair, Mamba is probably the best stick on the market. Better than Warthog as Warthog is (ironically) a fully metal HOTAS but with critical parts being made of plastic (parts of mechanism). And speaking of ergonomy Warthog is really built for big hands as an average sized dude need to raise a hand to reach the buttons on top (or hats).

Edited February 17, 2014 by tikvic

[Sokol1]

 

I hope they will make something about it.

 

Based on Sukhoi what seem "WiP" -  ETA probable end of 2014 - are:

 

A metal KG12 (Bf109 grip without bomb button - considered un-ergonomic ), or in shot a "2 button grip" (with less chance of people complain about buttons placement...)   

 

After, maybe this:

 

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173430&d=1389844807

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173432&d=1389844819

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173431&d=1389844812

 

Sokol1

[Nage]

Sokol, dont get me wrong. Im not complaining. Its just pitty we have entrly level grip on best mechanism a money can buy in store. The last pics is an interesting design, pretty ergonomic and still "hardcore" enough.

BTW, a friend of mine asked for MAmba but VKB are not responding to emails sent in last few weeks.

[Nage]

btw look this:

 

 

I believe its a grip from mig29. Everything close together and easily reachable hehe

Edited February 17, 2014 by tikvic

[SYN_Vorlander]

Sokol, dont get me wrong. Im not complaining. Its just pitty we have entrly level grip on best mechanism a money can buy in store. The last pics is an interesting design, pretty ergonomic and still "hardcore" enough.

BTW, a friend of mine asked for MAmba but VKB are not responding to emails sent in last few weeks.

I received a mail from Eduard last week. He does have problems with his email. Edited February 18, 2014 by SYN_Vorlander

[Sokol1]

btw look this:

 

 

I believe its a grip from mig29. Everything close together and easily reachable hehe

 

Yes... for Mig 29 pilot, that use this left convex HAT - probable a control for target designator - only eventually in some training sessions.

 

Different from a simmer that use buttons/HAT several times (some for look around) in each flight/fight, and for use a HAT in this position need fold his thumb finger.

 

For my, Groomi aproach is better: only swing your thumb left righ for reach buttons/HAT, it's more convenient for simmer's.

This approach "design that is good for militarys is good for simmers" is dubious- they have different needs. If you ready the 2007 Sukhoi topic see that VKB guys conclude the same thing.

 

I give up my "F-16" like grips because to reach the press button above HAT's need move the hand from grip - because I dont have "troglodyte" hand.

 

My 0,02$: Forget this "plastic" blablabla, buy the Mamba and try his "crap grip", is probable that you like this, if not, you are abble to install a "real metal" one in place.

 

Sokol1

[Nage]

 

For my, Groomi aproach is better: only swing your thumb left righ for reach buttons/HAT, it's more convenient for simmer's.

 

 

But, you forgot that the Cobra/Mamb's grip has that thumb rest below the top of the grip (where all the buttons and hats are placed). So, during flight your thumb is below the top "head" of the stick. SU35 pilots had their thumb all the time on hats, just on the top of the stick. 

 

 

buy the Mamba and try his "crap grip", is probable that you like this, if not, you are abble to install a "real metal" one in place.

 

 

Ofcourse. Its all my preumptions according to some other reviewers and given pics. I need to try the grip myself, then I will judge. After all, I suppose most ppl will just get used to it, and the ,echanism and precision is what counts the most.

 

I give up my "F-16" like grips because to reach the press button above HAT's need move the hand from grip - because I dont have "troglodyte" hand.

 

Agree. I tryed Warthog at my friends house. Its made for big hands.

[Nage]

OK. Pirato was so kind to make a short video of him "working with the buttons and hats". ON video you can see that thumb must do some "swing" movements to go from thumb rest position ("flight position") to thumb on hats and buttons position ("combat position"). Hovewer, I guess most guys will just get used to this with time. And more grips are coming so with adapter it will be a different story.

Here I will post a video (with permission from Pirato). Notice how the thumb is resting well below the top of the stick where all the hats and buttons are (not counting the trigger and "pinkie").

Edited February 19, 2014 by tikvic

[[DIS]ExGreyFox]

Great stuff Tikvic and Pirato. I randomly came up on the black mamba stick and I'm really interested. I currently own the HOTAS Warthog stick and throttle but am an avid Russian plane enthusiast so I really like this SU-27/Mig-29 resembling stick. But wait.... 269 euro?!?! That currently translates to close to $400 USD for me. For $500 i got the HOTAS warthog with an out of this world throttle and great all metal stick. And black mamba isn't even metal?! I'm ok with the plastic stick but from what I've heard and read so far, a good number of comments are saying that it feels flimsy and creaks. For those of you that currently own the black mamba, can anyone tell me relatively how it feels in terms of rigidness of the actual stick? Will I feel it bending at the cracks like a cheap toy? Not only that but the buttons just look cheap and flimsy. I get the fact that it comes with a great gimbal and all but for 269 euro I would expect a lot more than just a great gimbal and a mediocre plastic stick. Anyone, please prove me wrong because I really like the look and style of the black mamba. I'm just not crazy about the quality I currently have perceived in my head, 

Edited February 19, 2014 by [DIS]ExGreyFox

[Nage]

Great stuff Tikvic and Pirato. I randomly came up on the black mamba stick and I'm really interested. I currently own the HOTAS Warthog stick and throttle but am an avid Russian plane enthusiast so I really like this SU-27/Mig-29 resembling stick. But wait.... 269 euro?!?! That currently translates to close to $400 USD for me. For $500 i got the HOTAS warthog with an out of this world throttle and great all metal stick. And black mamba isn't even metal?! I'm ok with the plastic stick but from what I've heard and read so far, a good number of comments are saying that it feels flimsy and creaks. For those of you that currently own the black mamba, can anyone tell me relatively how it feels in terms of rigidness of the actual stick? Will I feel it bending at the cracks like a cheap toy? Not only that but the buttons just look cheap and flimsy. I get the fact that it comes with a great gimbal and all but for 269 euro I would expect a lot more than just a great gimbal and a mediocre plastic stick. Anyone, please prove me wrong because I really like the look and style of the black mamba. I'm just not crazy about the quality I currently have perceived in my head, 

Warthog is all metal but uses plastics in its gimbal mechanism and VKB Mamba uses fully metal gimbal mechanism. That is a huge difference. And Mamba uses superior mars sensors and is more precise. VKB is selling adapter for all kinds of grips including Warthog so you can use Warthog grip/handle/stick with Mamba base/system. The default grip on Mamba is "taken" from entry level joystick - Cobra M5 Defender. Cobra M5 joystick isnt bad at all and the problems with "cracks" was related to first batches of Cobra`s and had nothing to do with grip itself but with plastics inside the mechanism (in the base of the stick). The Cobra`s/Mamba`s grip is made of quality plastics which comes with rubberized surface. The buttons though seems a bit on the cheap side as I heard. The hats are ok. Hope this helps.

Edited February 19, 2014 by tikvic

[SYN_Vorlander]

Its not flimsy and will not crack in ur hand. I own a Warthog to. The mamba might have a plastic grip but i love using it.

[[DIS]ExGreyFox]

Thanks Tikvic and SYN_Vorlander. But ultimately I am more interested in the look and egronomics of the black mamba than the mechanics. I would like to use a black mamba stick with my warthog throttle, if that is at all possible. I saw that Germanicus had issues with using the mamba with another throttle. 

 

I hear word that there might be a metal black mamba stick coming in the future. Any truth to that? 

 

On a last note, does anyone know if its possible to buy different grips? More particularly, anyone know where I can find Russian style grips? I'm not even sure if there such a thing but i thought I'd ask. 

[SYN_Vorlander]

Using my mamba with warthog throttle. Np at all

[[DIS]ExGreyFox]

Using my mamba with warthog throttle. Np at all

Do you have the lite mamba or fat mamba?

 

How big is the difference in feel between the warthog stick and mamba in terms of gimbal and accuracy? Would you say its really worth 269 euro? 

[SYN_Vorlander]

Fat. Accuracy and feel is fantastic. Warthog grip is to big for my hands. Worth the cash.

[[DIS]ExGreyFox]

Thanks for the info mate. I hope these go back in stock soon. 

[ST_Pirato]

Its planned that the next Batch is for sale in Q2 2014. The stick itself is very good and movement is smoother than the Warhogs. The Grip design and feel is up to personal preference. I like the big grip of the Warthog ,and it's not because it's Metal. The CH Fighterstick has a similar large Grip and I liked that one also.

For anyone considering a Black Mamba, if you consider getting also the Stick extension in the future make sure you pick a Mamba Light or Pro,because the extension will not work with the Fat Black Mamba according to the infos on the European VKB Shop.

[Nage]

I thought that the custom grips could be mounted via adapter which goes on top of the base which should be the same in all Mambas??

[[DIS]ExGreyFox]

Any ETA on a metal grip black mamba? 

[ST_Pirato]

I thought that the custom grips could be mounted via adapter which goes on top of the base which should be the same in all Mambas??

Yes the Grips works with no propblem on any vesion. I was talking about the Extension http://www.sukhoi.ru...29&d=1386574621

[Nage]

Yes the Grips works with no propblem on any vesion. I was talking about the Extension http://www.sukhoi.ru...29&d=1386574621

Ahh yes, my bad. But AFAIK the default Mamba is hight adjustable to some extent.

[ST_Pirato]

Yes it is,you can extend the height by around 30mm but I think it's nowhere documented. I found it out by accident,it's described earlier in this thread how to do it. It's nothing complicated just 2 screws.

[Sokol1]

Any ETA on a metal grip black mamba? 

 

Maybe next year... http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1269-help-ordering-vkb-fat-king-cobra-mkii-joystick/page-4?do=findComment&comment=88980

 

Sokol1

[Nage]

I would like to have this version of Mamba. But instead of one wheel one - "rotary knob" for throttle. I see no point in all the switches in front and on the right side of fat Mamba. How would I use it when in flight?

 

Edited February 21, 2014 by tikvic

[SYN_Vorlander]

Tikvic,

 

the switches can be use for trim, landing gear, flaps up/down and starting the engine. the joystick with all the knobs and switches might look silly but it works like a HOTAS system.

[Nage]

I dont think they look silly but I was thinking about switches/knobs (whataver they are) which are on the right side of the Fat Mambas base. How would you use them DURING the flight? :-))

Either way, Mamba is awesome.

Edited February 21, 2014 by tikvic