Dynamic Campaign

[glidej]

I have been an avid IL-2 fan and an ROF convert. Both of these beat all other sims for the simple fact that they immersed you in the game. I was let down with CLOD as it was so buggy it was unplayable and did not have a dynamic campaign. The mods have made that playable but the dynamic campaign, though present, does not have the immersion of 1946 and ROF. I know it is early for BOS but I'd like to know if a dynamic campaign is in the works. It seems a shame that such a fantastic sim is lacking this crucial single player feature. It makes it a multiplayer game only. The "campaign" that exists is just a bunch of single missions where bailouts and emergency landings do not mean a thing. You simply cancel and start again and is no different than a quick mission other than the unlocks which is a very "console" game style approach. Is the ROF/IL-2 team planning on a dynamic campaign? I certainly don't feel I've gotten $100 worth yet.

[Feathered_IV]

I don't think they are planning on one. I wish it were otherwise.

If BoS succeeds, it will do so despite the present campaign, and not because of it. From what I've read the developers are taking the risk that someone else makes the interesting and engaging content for them. 

[Y-29.Silky]

Unfortunately, Feathered is right. If BoS succeeds, they're going to need to release the FMB soon. They already released the game too early, it's make or break for them right now. The only way this game will strive and expand, is to get the community involved, and fast..

[Russkly]

Yes, it is indeed a shame, if that proves to be the case, because it's a wonderful sim with masses of potential.

 

However, after only a week or so of flying the 'Campaign' I can see that it has limited shelf life in its current form due it's 'repeat to fade' style and complete lack of immersion.  I won't comment on the whole unlocks thing.

 

PWCG for RoF and the WOFF campaign are the benchmarks for me in terms of off-line combat flight sim gameplay, so I wonder why they chose to take the route they did.

 

Still, as with RoF, WOFF, CloD, etc. I will continue to support whatever's developed, because you get the impression that the whole WWI/WWII combat flight sim genre is sitting on a bit of a commercial knife-edge at the moment, and if we we adherents give up, because maybe the product isn't 100% to our liking for whatever reason, then there simply won't be a genre any more.

 

R

[Vaxxtx]

Yes, it is indeed a shame, if that proves to be the case, because it's a wonderful sim with masses of potential.

 

However, after only a week or so of flying the 'Campaign' I can see that it has limited shelf life in its current form due it's 'repeat to fade' style and complete lack of immersion.  I won't comment on the whole unlocks thing.

 

PWCG for RoF and the WOFF campaign are the benchmarks for me in terms of off-line combat flight sim gameplay, so I wonder why they chose to take the route they did.

 

Still, as with RoF, WOFF, CloD, etc. I will continue to support whatever's developed, because you get the impression that the whole WWI/WWII combat flight sim genre is sitting on a bit of a commercial knife-edge at the moment, and if we we adherents give up, because maybe the product isn't 100% to our liking for whatever reason, then there simply won't be a genre any more.

 

R

PWCG for RoF should not be a benchmark. It was a mission generator that tracked player kills. It is not fully dynamic like the OP (and many others) are wanting/expecting with the IL2 name. Asura Dgen and Lowengrins DCG for IL2 are more apt to be called "benchmarks" for a dynamic campaign.

 

Last statement is ridiculous. Your saying if people dont buy BoS, even if they dont like it, then no other WWII flight sim will be made ever again. Thats laughable. Considering another one is being made currently, and if BoS succeeds or not is in NO way a determining factor on who produces what in the future. This type of hyperbole is a tactic to guilt people into buying a product they dont want.

 

Anyway, I agree with the OP. In order for this game to move forward it needs a good dynamic campaign in the likes of the original. I am not sure when or even if its possible to a true DCG for BoS though. Thats the part I am worried about.

[Dakpilot]

There is another WWII sim being made currently?

 

Links please

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Yakdriver]

well... technically...
just as WIP as BoS, there is still this thing in the hands of TD and the ATAG team... heheheheee :D

[[TWB]Outlaw-]

I think he means DCS ww2. Which I haven't seen much progress from and from what I understand is less my cup of tea than il2 in terms of gameplay.

[Russkly]

PWCG for RoF should not be a benchmark. It was a mission generator that tracked player kills. It is not fully dynamic like the OP (and many others) are wanting/expecting with the IL2 name. Asura Dgen and Lowengrins DCG for IL2 are more apt to be called "benchmarks" for a dynamic campaign.

 

Last statement is ridiculous. Your saying if people dont buy BoS, even if they dont like it, then no other WWII flight sim will be made ever again. Thats laughable. Considering another one is being made currently, and if BoS succeeds or not is in NO way a determining factor on who produces what in the future. This type of hyperbole is a tactic to guilt people into buying a product they dont want.

 

Anyway, I agree with the OP. In order for this game to move forward it needs a good dynamic campaign in the likes of the original. I am not sure when or even if its possible to a true DCG for BoS though. Thats the part I am worried about.

 

Your tone has prompted me to reply. 

 

Not that it matters, but please read the post.

 

It states that PWCG and the WOFF campaign are, "the benchmarks for me in terms of off-line combat flight sim gameplay".

 

There is no claim that the former is a benchmark for a dynamic campaign, although we really would be splitting hairs anyway.

 

Note also the text, "for me", i.e. in my humble opinion, to which I believe we are all entitled.

 

I can assure you that I have no interest whatsoever in "guilting people to buying a product they don't want"!  I'm just a simple punter, who likes WWI/WWII combat flight sims, and is concerned that this apparently commercially unattractive genre will suffer, if everybody abandons products early doors, because they don't meet all their expectations.

 

We are not dealing with modern warfare FPS here.

 

Anyway, it's just an opinion, as is yours, to which we are both of course entitled, so please don't use words like "laughable" - there really is no need.  Save those terms for important stuff, where you might actually need their impact.

 

Russkly

[chris455]

Last statement is ridiculous. Your saying if people dont buy BoS, even if they dont like it, then no other WWII flight sim will be made ever again. Thats laughable. Considering another one is being made currently, and if BoS succeeds or not is in NO way a determining factor on who produces what in the future. This type of hyperbole is a tactic to guilt people into buying a product they dont want.

 

 

Harsh words, don't you think?

 

I don't think Russkly was saying what you imply at all...... what  he seems to mean is that the number of developers of combat flight simulators is a very small number, and their survival depends on sales of their products. Just like any other business. DCS: WWII is just a notch above vapor-ware right now and there are no other new titles in the offing. Doesn't that strike a chord?

 

"If BoS succeeds or not is in NO way a determining factor on who produces what in the future."

I disagree........................

If BoS dies big, it could send a big message to other developers to steer clear of the genre- and that could be a death sentence. He also never said a thing about "buying a sim you don't want." He only suggested that we consider the good aspects of a product, and not condemn it outright when it isn't 100% right out of the gate.

 

I very much agree.

Edited November 9, 2014 by chris455

[SCG_Neun]

Possibly expecting too much...... but I'd like to see an after mission combat result listing total stats for both sides in addition to what, if anything my AI teammates accomplished. I don't feel connected much to my unit within the campaign. For me, it feels like you guys do your thing, and I'll get some kills, and then we will all meet back at base. If I could get a report of the total outcome of the mission I'd feel more like we were either gaining ground or losing.

 

I'd also like to see a better breakdown of commands for my squad...attack bombers...attack fighters...delineation.

[Voidhunger]

I know that they have limited budget and time, but ... make a combat flight sim without dynamic career with historical squads and awards in 2014?

Everytime I start the game and look into the profile to see the statistics for all planes together, the achievements, deserts skins  and unlocks I wonder ....WTF, they can´t be serious.

I hope that its a bad bad dream and tomorrow I will wake up and everything will be different.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Voidhunger

[Vaxxtx]

 

Still, as with RoF, WOFF, CloD, etc. I will continue to support whatever's developed, because you get the impression that the whole WWI/WWII combat flight sim genre is sitting on a bit of a commercial knife-edge at the moment, and if we we adherents give up, because maybe the product isn't 100% to our liking for whatever reason, then there simply won't be a genre any more.

 

R

 

 

Harsh words, don't you think?

 

I don't think Russkly was saying what you imply at all...... what  he seems to mean is that the number of developers of combat flight simulators is a very small number, and their survival depends on sales of their products. Just like any other business. DCS: WWII is just a notch above vapor-ware right now and there are no other new titles in the offing. Doesn't that strike a chord?

 

"If BoS succeeds or not is in NO way a determining factor on who produces what in the future."

I disagree........................

If BoS dies big, it could send a big message to other developers to steer clear of the genre- and that could be a death sentence. He also never said a thing about "buying a sim you don't want." He only suggested that we consider the good aspects of a product, and not condemn it outright when it isn't 100% right out of the gate.

 

I very much agree.

It could also send a big message on what NOT to do in future sims in order to make them a success. Just because a developer makes some bad decisions does not mean they all have to follow the same path. 

 

Sorry, but this killing of the genre seems to be based on what has been made, not on people not buying, starting with Wings of Prey, CLoD and continuing with BoS. Much hope and anticipation only to be letdown by final product. Whether it be too arcade, released too early, or released with bad gameplay, all while trying to cash in by putting IL2 in the name.

 

Anyway, to the point I would rather have nothing than toss money to a dev in hopes that maybe, just maybe if I keep giving them cash, they might make a sim that *I* want to play. No thanks. Its the same with having a dynamic campaign in BoS. Should have already been in, since 80% of the game is based on the SP, yet its not. More time spent on the xp/unlock system over a game mode that would actually bring life, playability, and fun to BoS. No, you have to hope that eventually we will get a FMB, and then hope someone can make a dynamic campaign, and then hope the engine + FMB can actually do one relative to DCG.

[glidej]

Actually, I didn't think ROF needed any mods for an immersive, dynamic campaign. The career mode in ROF is exactly what I look for in a campaign. 1946 had the same format. I don't know why they let that go as no other sims since the series by Dynamics (Aces of the Pacific) had that. It’s what made the single player stand out and bring you into the game. It’s hard to survive a few weeks in ROF. Love that. Just finished day 3 in a new career starting in 1917 with a Camel (my favorite plane).

[malcheus]

The current campaign is missing:

-How am I performing compared to my peers?

-How is my squadron (ie. me and my wingbots) performing compared to other squadrons?

-What did we contribute to the war? How many planes do we have left, and how many do they have left?

-Who is winning the war? 

 

All it is now is a perfectly maintained plane out of an infinite pool of perfectly maintained planes, takeing off and fighting against an infinite pool of other planes. 

Winning has some positive consequences. Losing has no consequences at all. 

[JG1_Pragr]

The benchmark of "how campaigns should be" was set up by Falcon 4.0 about 16 years ago. Persistent, dynamic real time battlefield where units are "alive" even during the player's mission. The only thing player needs to do is set up are initial numbers of each side units and then everything is calculated by the campaign generator. Missions for players squadron are generated in real time and you only have to choose which one you would like to participate. Units effectiveness is influenced by the player overall success (so the player is motivate to be successful). Each side of conflict has its own amount of resources (like fuel, ammo etc.). More you destroyed them the less ability to fight your opponent has.

 

The same thing is made even for multiplayer.

 

Anyway I hope we see something like the old Il-2 multiplayer campaigns (Air Domination War or Frontovoye Nebo (Frontline Sky)) in BoS at least.

[=CFC=Conky]

The benchmark of "how campaigns should be" was set up by Falcon 4.0 about 16 years ago. Persistent, dynamic real time battlefield where units are "alive" even during the player's mission. The only thing player needs to do is set up are initial numbers of each side units and then everything is calculated by the campaign generator. Missions for players squadron are generated in real time and you only have to choose which one you would like to participate. Units effectiveness is influenced by the player overall success (so the player is motivate to be successful). Each side of conflict has its own amount of resources (like fuel, ammo etc.). More you destroyed them the less ability to fight your opponent has.

 

The same thing is made even for multiplayer.

 

Anyway I hope we see something like the old Il-2 multiplayer campaigns (Air Domination War or Frontovoye Nebo (Frontline Sky)) in BoS at least.

 

 

I really liked the Wargen system used in EF2000, the entire theatre was active and it was fun to just fly around and watch the action.

[=LG/F=Kathon]

Anyway I hope we see something like the old Il-2 multiplayer campaigns (Air Domination War or Frontovoye Nebo (Frontline Sky)) in BoS at least.

 

That would be great.

 

This old Il-2 with multiplayer campaigns is still more interesting to me than BOS with a few simple and boring dogfights servers.

Edited November 10, 2014 by =LG=Kathon

[dario]

I quite agree. The current campaign is a shame, I wonder where did my $ 99 when I see the result of SP. I prefer not to talk about the MP which is so laughable...