Multiplayer is a mess from a game design perspective

[1./JG42Nephris]

It is Sunday Evening and not a single slot free in any Expert Server and I am not spaeking of that useless BoS Expert Server

This is so ashame after release day + .

I really regret I bought that game and get bothered each time again I fire it up.

It has potential , yes.

It is useless atm ,yes.

 

They keep the limit of 32 for whatever reasons, I cant follow anymore.

They do not offer a server envirenment that puffer those limits.

 

Still I cant and I wont recommend the game.

Either you released your stuff too early or those who make decisions in the office must basically be drunken.

Singleplayer is porked....

Multiplayer is enjoyable for a handfull of players.

 

Maybe it is really time to keep it off the harddisk for another 12 months.

Just installed it the weekend, suffered through some of that SP stuff to get rid off the backplate, expected being able to play with some m8 in MP the evening ..and.. blubb.

 

Great stuff.

In the meantime I can understand most metacritic comments.

[Yakdriver]

the game was released before there even WAS a multiplayer.
stop ranting?

[JG1_Pragr]

...

 

To your point #1 and #2.

 

I think the biggest BoS problem nowadays is it have DF servers only. DF servers are just a DF servers and you can't hardly expect there would be people focus on anything else than shooting down the other guys. Particularly if nine out ten mission are designed with one or two marked ground targets at best. Main purpose of such ground targets is usually to let fighters know where they could find their easy prey. Nothing else. God bless exceptions. This status hardly changes until nobody (except few chosen ones) have the FMB available.

 

What are you call for is some kind of dynamic multiplayer campaign, focused on ground war, where players will be motivate to support their ground units through the fact that one mission/map impacted the next one. In example, if you loose this map, you'll have less number of your best planes available on the next one. Or some mods would be forbidden. When one side loose all of its resource/ground units/or all available air fields the other side wins the campaign and the server resets the map to the default situation. Rinse repeat.

 

It would be very interesting to know how many virtual pilots (or BoS players) are focus on DF server play mostly and how much of online pilots would prefer some kind of server with dynamic online campaign. Still I think that once (or if ever) some developing team made a game with decent flight/damage model but with good online campaign generator for at least 100 players, it beats all current games including BoS, CloD or DCS in terms of number of users.

[YSoMadTovarisch]

I doubt it will be much of a help to be honest, so what if their side's in deep shit? They'll just leave and find another server, that's my experience from online games that have similar concept =/

[JG1_Pragr]

Not necessarily. The bigger the difference between both sides would be the faster would be the collapse of the loosing side and thus the reset of map. The longest part of every campaign would be the part when both sides are about to equal. Anyway there are more limiting factors. Like how to count the campaign progress if there are enough players only (in other words limiting the one or two players influence on the whole map during low pop time). How to avoid wasting of high valuable planes/resources by particular people (i.e. repetitive spawning of top planes on AF under attack). How to motivate people to RTB rather than waste their plane in some heroic but often suicidal combat, etc.

 

The closest I've ever got to this was in the aged Air Domination War under the old Il-2:1946.

 

Made something similar for BoS and I bet 9 out of 10 virtual pilots would tolerate the non-clickable cockpits in BoS and forget about sims like CloD...

Edited November 10, 2014 by II./JG1_Pragr

[Mac_Messer]

From my perspective, and experience so far, people are most interested in their K/D ratio on serious servers.

That separates them as "good pilots".

 

Rarely anyone, like EVER, boasted her/his stats on a forums: "hey look at my/her/his 50:1 map win to lose ratio!".

I never saw that in 10 years of visiting IL-2 forums.

 

No. No one did that and probably never will. Same for points or whatever.

People will probably always find 50:1 kill/death ratio to be impressive regardless if the guy flew like a last dirtbag disconnecting when he's about to be killed, flying for the side that is likely to win (superiority), never flew attack planes, always try to fly FW-190 at 10000m, mostly over his own lines or something like that.

 

Now... is there a way to make them seriously look like a coops... with head and tail instead of being airquake - I don't know.

Does boasting about conquering Stalingrad map in 3 days count? Because lots of people did that on the OKL side at IL2 days. Where were you I`d ask, but I think I know. You were flying airquake servers yourself.

[Mac_Messer]

Thank you..we bomber pilots have been saying that for years. It may take skill to shoot a plane down in a dogfight, but it takes much more skill to fly a path,sneak around patrolling fighters, line up bomb a target..and then hit it! Then fly home without the fighters finding you or shooting you down, landing and maybe getting some points.

Bomber pilots have tricks of their own. On example is takeoff and go @7000m or takeoff and wait till fighters spend all their fuel.

[Yakdriver]

That is just Bull.

any fighter can fly for at least one hour. no bomber waits that long.

and any fighter can go to 8, 8.5, 9k... and a bomber is still a sitting duck.

 

Bombers and ground attack dudes DO have to pull all sorts of stunts and spend their entire bag of luck just to get TO the target.
Both arguments are ESPECIALLY true in the current airquake type of servers.

 

They were less true in Coops or online wars. "less".

Edited November 10, 2014 by Hawker_Typhoon

[Mac_Messer]

@Hawker_Typhoon  :That's  a dream and it will never become reality , today trolling is a real on-line profession for many . Actually this community is pretty ok compared to other games that have an on-line component , i guess due to the learning curve of the game which may not attract every kid with  a joystick . No matter what you do, there will always be players that play the way  they want regardless of the game objectives , and i guess it's their right to do so, after all this is not WW2 where you will have to pay a visit to the Martial Court after flying a plane the way you want and not according to the needs of your army . But, if you introduce a system of Victory Points ( or something similar ) that repay players for taking actions in accordance with the objectives and the historical behavior expected from a pilot, than i think we will see a major improvement in this simulation , few players will keep playing randomly if that will place them on the bottom of the score board . If the game keeps presenting us the k/d ratio and it looks like it's the only measure of one's success in game, then any future discussion is futile . 

Actually, some of the red squads in IL2 days were professional at ramming bombers. One minute and all bomber planes are down. And no red fighters flying either. The point is : the bomber pilot will have a bad time even when the K/D ratio is removed.

That is just Bull.

 

any fighter can fly for at least one hour. no bomber waits that long.

and any fighter can go to 8, 8.5, 9k... and a bomber is still a sitting duck.

 

Bombers and ground attack dudes DO have to pull all sorts of stunts and spend their entire bag of luck just to get TO the target.

Both arguments are ESPECIALLY true in the current airquake type of servers.

 

They were less true in Coops or online wars. "less".

I flew over 400 online war sorties, dude. You don`t get to tell me what is bull.

[SCG_Neun]

To your point #1 and #2.

 

I think the biggest BoS problem nowadays is it have DF servers only. DF servers are just a DF servers and you can't hardly expect there would be people focus on anything else than shooting down the other guys. Particularly if nine out ten mission are designed with one or two marked ground targets at best. Main purpose of such ground targets is usually to let fighters know where they could find their easy prey. Nothing else. God bless exceptions. This status hardly changes until nobody (except few chosen ones) have the FMB available.

 

What are you call for is some kind of dynamic multiplayer campaign, focused on ground war, where players will be motivate to support their ground units through the fact that one mission/map impacted the next one. In example, if you loose this map, you'll have less number of your best planes available on the next one. Or some mods would be forbidden. When one side loose all of its resource/ground units/or all available air fields the other side wins the campaign and the server resets the map to the default situation. Rinse repeat.

 

It would be very interesting to know how many virtual pilots (or BoS players) are focus on DF server play mostly and how much of online pilots would prefer some kind of server with dynamic online campaign. Still I think that once (or if ever) some developing team made a game with decent flight/damage model but with good online campaign generator for at least 100 players, it beats all current games including BoS, CloD or DCS in terms of number of users.

+1

[Yakdriver]

The current state of the game is of anything BUT online wars.
The current state of the players is anything BUT that from the old days.

The entire Game is brand new, and 90% of the old knowledge is out the door.

your 400 sorties mean Tons in 1946.
but none in here.
you start from scratch, with no Dserver, no experience nothing.

Bull.

[Mac_Messer]

The current state of the game is of anything BUT online wars.

The current state of the players is anything BUT that from the old days.

The entire Game is brand new, and 90% of the old knowledge is out the door.

 

your 400 sorties mean Tons in 1946.

but none in here.

you start from scratch, with no Dserver, no experience nothing.

 

Bull.

Ofcourse they mean tons, even now. Because experience is worth gold. Playing this online you will get owned by 1946 players like me. Smarter and more experienced.

 

You proll have 100 hours in WT arcade and think your good. You`re a newbie in a 1946 player`s world.

[Yakdriver]

Dude...
u getting personal?

some 100 in sim mode, mostly bombers.
5k in 1946, full switch MP and SP

2k in CFS3?

ask me for my Virtual Pilot's resumé, i got it noted down as a PDF file.

If we never met before, is because i wasnt where you were for the last decade and a half.

and i gguess we both agree that's a good thing maybe?

 

But you framing me like a 100h WT arcade Player is again...
Red bull!

 

At this stage how am i to listen to you when your assessment of me is so far off the mark?
how is ANYone able to value your experience and opinion?

stop aiming at and missing me, and get back on topic.

Halleluja
 

[LeLv76_Erkki]

The current state of the game is of anything BUT online wars.

The current state of the players is anything BUT that from the old days.

The entire Game is brand new, and 90% of the old knowledge is out the door.

 

your 400 sorties mean Tons in 1946.

but none in here.

you start from scratch, with no Dserver, no experience nothing.

 

Bull.

 

Couldn't be further from the truth. Experience is experience, sometimes it transfers, sometimes it doesnt. I dare claim that thanks to my "meaningless" experience from previous sims my MP experience so far has been that people fly as badly as they ever did and are mostly just clay pidgeons and frankly while I prefer an enemy worse than myself, its getting repetitive to wait for those Yaks over my own field or shoot them en route when they dont look around them. Even when the game allows people to see directly to their low 6 from cockpit. Your experience may differ.

 

Besides, I can be the exception but, so far to me the only people I've flown MP with are the same people I flew Il-2 with in 2005 or so. Theres lots of old Il-2ers waiting for full difficulty the dynamic campaigns to fly every Friday and Saturday and sometimes on week evenings, chatting in TS, armed with a beer or two.

[Bearcat]

OK folks.. we need to ratchet some of this dialog back a tad... I appreciate your cooperation.

[Yakdriver]

Couldn't be further from the truth. Experience is experience, sometimes it transfers, sometimes it doesnt. I dare claim that thanks to my "meaningless" experience from previous sims my MP experience so far has been that people fly as badly as they ever did and are mostly just clay pidgeons and frankly while I prefer an enemy worse than myself, its getting repetitive to wait for those Yaks over my own field or shoot them en route when they dont look around them. Even when the game allows people to see directly to their low 6 from cockpit. Your experience may differ.

 

Besides, I can be the exception but, so far to me the only people I've flown MP with are the same people I flew Il-2 with in 2005 or so. Theres lots of old Il-2ers waiting for full difficulty the dynamic campaigns to fly every Friday and Saturday and sometimes on week evenings, chatting in TS, armed with a beer or two.

Good to see that your experience transfers.

I for one find this sim a bit more challenging than the previous one - even starting the engine took me half an hour in the beginning.

I really find it something new - from engine startup to proper landings, it's like i have never done any virtual flying before.

Some background knowledge stays of course like the automat for the 190, or the neverending B/Z  bersus T/B tactics debate.

But  from my Point of View... it's an entirely new way of handling the planes.

 

And if i take the plane handling as a base element for the entire experience, then teh rest (SP; MP; ...) gets a new spin too.

no Coop modes available, no virtual wars available, so those sections of the past experience can hardly be applied in the airquake arena.

 

Pilots from majorly WT and RoF, DCS background are also converging on the new platform - bringing in not only new blood but also new habits, tricks and tactics.

 

okay, 90% is a bit high, but i think it's fair to say that major parts of the online experience get a complete overhaul. major, something like 50% or so.

Good? bad? Awesome features or shoddy features?

 

It's quite a bit too early to judge, as the features to run proper missions and DF servers are not even available.

 

And when i write the above, i wonder if this discussion is not premature as well.

let's see next spring before giving a thumbs up or a thumbs down

- at a time where the coding thing is finished, and the devs say "this is the tool, this is what you get, basta".

[Lusekofte]

Well this discussion might well be about COD and old IL2 also. It is one thing that should educate people and that is get organized. A organized group would slaughter all the lone wolfs and death matches. 

The problem with multiplayer is not the software, it is the us. Multiplayer makes everyone competitive. And since we do not have to be afraid of dying you go on suicide missions. I would not go alone in the heaviest slowest plane this sim has to offer if I risked anything valuable, but I do it here, I fly IL2 low and slow, and it is against all known war history to do that alone.

So in that regard I brake the rules as much as any vulcher

[Mac_Messer]

stop aiming at and missing me, and get back on topic.

Halleluja

 

You`re just wrong about denying the things i write about bomber pilots. You`d have to be absent of any IL2 online war to deny what I write.

[Mac_Messer]

Good to see that your experience transfers.

I for one find this sim a bit more challenging than the previous one - even starting the engine took me half an hour in the beginning.

I really find it something new - from engine startup to proper landings, it's like i have never done any virtual flying before.

Some background knowledge stays of course like the automat for the 190, or the neverending B/Z  bersus T/B tactics debate.

But  from my Point of View... it's an entirely new way of handling the planes.

 

And if i take the plane handling as a base element for the entire experience, then teh rest (SP; MP; ...) gets a new spin too.

No. Plane handling is just a part of the whole sheebang. Online experience is much, much more than that. You can be an ace at handling BoS aircraft but when the time you face an experienced player in an online war comes, you will need more than that to shoot him down or accomplish your mission.

 

Read what Erkki describes. I flew with him a number of times. And even if I didn`t, I`d read what he wrote and know immediately and exactly what he`s talking about.

[II./JG27_Rich]

Wait for the mission builder. Once that is out you'll get online scenarios which are realistic, to a point.

If there are some historians in here then you will get some great missions. If not get reading online. It's very easy to find stuff

[Yakdriver]

You`re just wrong about denying the things i write about bomber pilots. You`d have to be absent of any IL2 online war to deny what I write.

last one i was involved with... beginning 2013. here a shot.

 

but not a big online wargamer - too massive constructs for me, as much as i appreciate the detail scrutiny.

Probably because i am still waiting for the virtual 1000 bomber stream to Berlin to materialize.

Not my area of expertise, no sarcasm, no joke.

I like to ride my Mitchells like they are Jugs, and do not bomb using sights. Pappy gunn style.

[System87]

so can anyone tell me why every server is limited to 33 players??

[Yakdriver]

temporary limit by the devs to check some stuff.
no need to worry about anything.

32 players.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Hawker_Typhoon

[System87]

ah ok, i was starting to worry it might stay like that. Does anyone know when we can expect that mission builder and is it even a sure thing that we will get it?

Edited November 13, 2014 by System87

[Yakdriver]

aimed for beginning next year.

no confirmed date.

[ACG_Smokejumper]

last one i was involved with... beginning 2013. here a shot.

 

but not a big online wargamer - too massive constructs for me, as much as i appreciate the detail scrutiny.

Probably because i am still waiting for the virtual 1000 bomber stream to Berlin to materialize.

Not my area of expertise, no sarcasm, no joke.

I like to ride my Mitchells like they are Jugs, and do not bomb using sights. Pappy gunn style.

 

 

 

 

If you are not a big online wargamer why are you in this thread........? You are causing conflict in a threat to which you admit you don't even care about. I am a huge online gaming fan. It's the best test of your skill that no bot can match.

 

Someone mentioned a dedicated official TS. It helps build a community. I found this thread searching the forums for the Official Teamspeak Server. Still searching. Someone PM me some TS info so I can fly with you. No team preference yet.

 

 

EDIT///  FOUND THE TS SERVER!!

 

There needs to be one. We need to easily find wingmates to start building a community online to get more people engaged in the game. Online gaming is far more fun and successful with a solid crew to play with that you get to know over time. Right now I find myself playing CloD which I got into through Battle of Stalingrads lack of online presense. I googled options and found the Total Fusion teams total conversion. It's rad but a bit laggy. BoS has a superior engine it seems and is very pretty bout CloD is so much more immersive right down to its excellent community. The low server populations is also a bad sign 49 player cap is terrible. Give us a 100 so we can not feel like its empty sky most of a match.

 

 

Also, give us a better theatre next game. So white and flat, it's like dogfighting over Saskatchewan in winter and no one like Saskatchewan in winter. Actually all of the Canadian praries in winter....ugh.

Edited December 17, 2014 by SMOKEJUMPER

[CIA_Yankee_]

Also, give us a better theatre next game. So white and flat, it's like dogfighting over Saskatchewan in winter and no one like Saskatchewan in winter. Actually all of the Canadian praries in winter....ugh.

 

Well, here's the thing: the Germans didn't like the steppes in winter any better.

 

Admittedly, it'd be great if we got a fall version of that map, with an Operation Blau (blue?) campaign or some such.

 

But personally I'm liking the map... it's very different from waht we get in other sims (like CloD), and does look gorgeous and massively detailed.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Yankee_

[ACG_Smokejumper]

It's not terrible I just find anything Russian to be the least interesting of the war. Their theatre, tanks, aircraft even their small arms. Don't really like the style.

 

I will happily play the game though. It's good fun.

 

Now if only people played past 3pm west coast time I'd be even more happy. I'm not overly critical, I am indeed having fun and that's what the devs hoped for.

Edited December 18, 2014 by SMOKEJUMPER