CoD re-evaluated...

[Pringliano]

This week in an excellent thread started by Celestiale about a "rating" of the various combat flight simulators available, I posted a message saying something really unnecessary, but even worst, false!

 

Starting with that thread, after reading it, and also because I was long tempted to try Il2 CoD with the acclaimed TF patches, and had never used that game, I decided to use my Steam account, specially created to buy MS FLIGHT add-ons and latter Aerofly FS, and never used after that, and bought CoD, for the extraordinary price it sells for at Steam.

 

My expectations were high, because I had been watching a lot of youtubes, reading simmers comments, and even talking to some of my simmer friends who were more or less unanimous regarding the quality of that flightsim, so, I rushed installing and testing it.

 

In that thread I described my experience as niserable. I really didn't like the flight dynamics, after having flown one of each Bf109, Spitfire and the Hurricane.  Honestly, I couldn't understand why some talked so well about it - it simply didn't make sense to me? There were practically no prop effects, aircraft behavior was weird, even arcade-like. It was a big disappointment.

 

I said yes to all who asked me if I had enable the various effects, including weather effects, and "complex" management mode. Well, actually I must have done something wrong about it, and yesterday night fired the game again, on my laptop, where it was still installed, and browsed the options, just to find, to my dismay, that most of those enhancements were NOT selected!!!  While I made sure to select them in my desktop, after the game installed on my ASUS laptop ( which is actually more powerful than the desktop... ) I actually ran the sim in the laptop, and it was there that I made my tests... After the deceptive results, I uninstalled Steam and CoD from the desktop, wrote what message, also at the ATAG forum posted another one about my findings, even exchanged a few PMs with some fellow portuguese simmers, who again, found it strange that I could have found the sim so bad?

 

Well, my most sincere apologies to bongodriver, and others, for the stupid move.

 

I can't say I find CoD the best sim I have ever used,but what I tasted this night, after being up till early morning playing a few offline missions, is that it actually has a LOT of potential!! I would go even to the point of saying that I liked ground handling on a bomber in one of the missions superior to what I have experienced in IL2 BOS, where I still find the prop effects and tail surfaces efficiency needs attention from the dev team.

 

So, yes, CoD is good too!

 

Sorry :-/

Edited November 7, 2014 by jcomm

[Scarecrow]

Glad you gave it a second chance.

 

You should try it without the TF patches to see the state it was left in before those guys started on it. The release version was unbelievable!

 

I pre-ordered the Collectors Edition and took the day off work lol.

[DD_bongodriver]

No Worries jcomm.

[Pringliano]

wait.....

 

..... portuguese flight simmers? qué isso?

 

Uma chusma de gloriosos malucos das máquinas voadoras :-)

 

 

Glad you gave it a second chance.

 

You should try it without the TF patches to see the state it was left in before those guys started on it. The release version was unbelievable!

 

I pre-ordered the Collectors Edition and took the day off work lol.

 

Yes, I intend to test it that way too. Actually when I installed from Steam it already stays in a patched condition - apparently 3 patches are already installed ( ? ) 

 

I will test it further this way, and then proceed to install ( again ) each of the TF patches.

 

@DD_bongodriver: the Bristol Blenheim, flown from takeoff position in one of the default SP missions, proved to be very plausibly modeled at least in terms of prop effects and overall ground handling! Once airborne, and since it was heavy, the feedback from the FDM was also very good!

 

Next tests, during weekend, will probably get me into my first MP session at the ATAG servers :-)

 

Even on my previous evaluation of this sim, I couldn't say anything bad about the graphics, the level of detail of the cockpits, even the weather effects. These are also excellent aspects of CoD.

Edited November 7, 2014 by jcomm

[Chuck_Owl]

I am one of the few who flies the Blennie in all sorts of mission scenarios (you might have heard of the Band of Blennies series on youtube)  and if you like what you see, just you wait in a couple of months once we get the Wellington with the next patch. It's gonna be insane!

 

Also, the german bombers are much more fun to fly with. Give them a try as well, and you'll see how much detail went into the clickable cockpits and the bombsights themselves. It's quite an experience!

[Pringliano]

Thx Chuck, didn't know you were also involved in CoD!

 

For sure I'll try to find any tutorials available, just like those excellent tutorials your wrote for the IL2 BOS fleet :-)

 

And, I'll surely look for that "Band of Blennies" reference ;-)

[Chuck_Owl]

There's one for the Blennie.

 

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9629

 

Karaya also made wonderful tutorials for the Bf.109, the Bf.110 (a favourite of mine) and the Ju-87.

 

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9007

 

Also, brief versions of flight manuals for the german

http://www.theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/wiki/doku.php?id=germanflightmanuals

italian

http://www.theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/wiki/doku.php?id=italianflightmanuals

and british aircraft

http://www.theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/wiki/doku.php?id=britishflightmanuals

 

I wish I had time to do in-depth manuals for the Spitfire, Hurricane, Ju-88, Bf.110, G.50 and Br.20...

 

With DCS, I plan to do manuals for the Spitfire Mk. IX, P-47, Bf.109, Me-262, P-40F and the F8F Bearcat as well once they are released.

Edited November 7, 2014 by 71st_AH_Chuck

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Good on you; it's not the second coming as a few may claim it to be, but it's damn solid with the TF mod.

[II./JG27_Rich]

This week in an excellent thread started by Celestiale about a "rating" of the various combat flight simulators available, I posted a message saying something really unnecessary, but even worst, false!

 

Starting with that thread, after reading it, and also because I was long tempted to try Il2 CoD with the acclaimed TF patches, and had never used that game, I decided to use my Steam account, specially created to buy MS FLIGHT add-ons and latter Aerofly FS, and never used after that, and bought CoD, for the extraordinary price it sells for at Steam.

 

My expectations were high, because I had been watching a lot of youtubes, reading simmers comments, and even talking to some of my simmer friends who were more or less unanimous regarding the quality of that flightsim, so, I rushed installing and testing it.

 

In that thread I described my experience as niserable. I really didn't like the flight dynamics, after having flown one of each Bf109, Spitfire and the Hurricane.  Honestly, I couldn't understand why some talked so well about it - it simply didn't make sense to me? There were practically no prop effects, aircraft behavior was weird, even arcade-like. It was a big disappointment.

 

I said yes to all who asked me if I had enable the various effects, including weather effects, and "complex" management mode. Well, actually I must have done something wrong about it, and yesterday night fired the game again, on my laptop, where it was still installed, and browsed the options, just to find, to my dismay, that most of those enhancements were NOT selected!!!  While I made sure to select them in my desktop, after the game installed on my ASUS laptop ( which is actually more powerful than the desktop... ) I actually ran the sim in the laptop, and it was there that I made my tests... After the deceptive results, I uninstalled Steam and CoD from the desktop, wrote what message, also at the ATAG forum posted another one about my findings, even exchanged a few PMs with some fellow portuguese simmers, who again, found it strange that I could have found the sim so bad?

 

Well, my most sincere apologies to bongodriver, and others, for the stupid move.

 

I can't say I find CoD the best sim I have ever used,but what I tasted this night, after being up till early morning playing a few offline missions, is that it actually has a LOT of potential!! I would go even to the point of saying that I liked ground handling on a bomber in one of the missions superior to what I have experienced in IL2 BOS, where I still find the prop effects and tail surfaces efficiency needs attention from the dev team.

 

So, yes, CoD is good too!

 

Sorry :-/

I'm so glad you her another chance jcomm    

[Pringliano]

There's one for the Blennie.

 

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9629

 

Karaya also made wonderful tutorials for the Bf.109, the Bf.110 (a favourite of mine) and the Ju-87.

 

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9007

 

Also, brief versions of flight manuals for the german

http://www.theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/wiki/doku.php?id=germanflightmanuals

italian

http://www.theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/wiki/doku.php?id=italianflightmanuals

and british aircraft

http://www.theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/wiki/doku.php?id=britishflightmanuals

 

I wish I had time to do in-depth manuals for the Spitfire, Hurricane, Ju-88, Bf.110, G.50 and Br.20...

 

With DCS, I plan to do manuals for the Spitfire Mk. IX, P-47, Bf.109, Me-262, P-40F and the F8F Bearcat as well once they are released.

 

Downloading!!!! 

 

Thx a LOT!!!

 

 

I'm so glad you her another chance jcomm      

 

 

Me too :-)  Will be a great weekend, but with so many new things to learn, I guess it'll take months before I have flown them all.... 

 

Thx!

Edited November 7, 2014 by jcomm

[LBR=H_Ostermann]

Ótimo jcomm, parece que achou algo bom no FM :D

 

Agora, tu viu a PM que lhe enviei outro dia? Com sua experiência você pode ajudar muito.

[Pringliano]

Ótimo jcomm, parece que achou algo bom no FM :D

 

Agora, tu viu a PM que lhe enviei outro dia? Com sua experiência você pode ajudar muito.

 

Olá!

 

Sim vi, obrigado!, mas minha experiência de simulação de Combate está agora começando - não entendo nada disso mesmo :-(

 

Vou aprendendo a pouco-e-pouco :-)

 

Abraço!

Edited November 7, 2014 by jcomm

[II./JG27_Rich]

Believe it or not I'm still learning things I never payed any attention to the while flying on map "map tools" before, didn't even know the were there

[Pringliano]

Yet another positive experience from IL2 CoD + TF , being finally able to interact, again, with a complex cockpit.  I was missing this, for me very important feature from the civil sims world...

 

The cockpits in CoD are very well designed, complex almost up to the level of their rw counterparts, and having the possibility of interacting with most of the buttons, levers and switches using a mouse & click / scroll method, while at the same time being able to assign those functions to either keyboard presses or joystick buttons, rotaries, axes, etc, is something that is very positively impressing me about this sim.

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

Thx Chuck, didn't know you were also involved in CoD!

 

For sure I'll try to find any tutorials available, just like those excellent tutorials your wrote for the IL2 BOS fleet :-)

 

And, I'll surely look for that "Band of Blennies" reference ;-)

Chuck is in all games. The boogie man looks for Chuck under his bed. Chuck can win a game of connect 4 in 3 moves. Chuck can make a happy meal cry. We love Chuck! and TFcliffs.

[Pringliano]

Well, running  a battery of flight dynamics tests. Maneuvering with the Spit, Hurri and Bf109, landing and taking off....

 

So far, very very WELL impressed !

 

I certainly have a sim here!

 

I like ground handling, actually, at the moment, find it more plausible than in IL2 BOS with the overdone prop effects while taxiing and on initial takeoff.

 

CoD is definitelly  staying in my disk, and has big chances of becoming a first place, in my combat sim ranking.

 

Scenery-wise it is also very nice, and all very smotth in my desktop i5, and even better on the laptop.

[303_Kwiatek]

Actually ground handling is the weakest point of CLOD and i dont like it too much casue for me is little unrealistic - but it is unfortunately some engine limitation.

 

But planes behave nice in the air.  Less wobble then BOS planes but more then DCS. Exacly like i think it should be.   Also in CLOD there are nice stall and spin characteristic of these planes.  Every plane got different stall and spin.  Also no wonder manouvers is possible. Also not stupid flick roll with negative G like in BOS.  DCS for me is little off in spin characterstic casue planes like P-51 and D-9 are too forgive in these game.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Kwiatek

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Fair is fair JC and though nothing is perfect in any sim, I'm glad your enjoying CloD. Happy hunting ..... try the 110 when you can .... great plane

 

Chief

[Pringliano]

Is there a Fw190? Couldn't find one among the default models :-(

[Pringliano]

Well, ground handling is actually very good!  I find it much better than in BOS or even DCS ?  What do you think is wrong with it?

 

Just landed the He111 ( whow! superbly modeled !!! ) somewhere near Callais (?) and then taxied back and took off. Then tried with a Bf109, but touched down to rough - one of the tires blew off!!! This is DM!

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Is there a Fw190? Couldn't find one among the default models :-(

 

1940 buddy ..... 190 didn't come out till later .... sorry

 

Chief

[Pringliano]

Thx Chief... See, I really know nothing about Combat Air War stuff :-/

[Vaxxtx]

1940 buddy ..... 190 didn't come out till later .... sorry

 

Chief

The Malta expansion I think will have a 190. Free of course.

[Chuck_Owl]

Chuck is in all games. The boogie man looks for Chuck under his bed. Chuck can win a game of connect 4 in 3 moves. Chuck can make a happy meal cry. We love Chuck! and TFcliffs.

 

You just made me spill my coffee, mate. Well-played.   That's the funniest thing I've read in a while.

 

Also, Jcomm, if you're a RAF bomber fan next patch will feature a Wellington. TF already started working on the interior cockpit and new flight model. New details of the 3D model should be announced this week on the ATAG forums. Between you and I, I think the Wellington gonna be the finest bomber we'll ever get to fly in CloD.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvRQLsvbHIM

 

New patch will also feature new flyable planes as well, among them being the Gladiator and the CR.42 (the cockpits are placeholders for testing purposes in this video, so don't mind them).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVxTH7JHUGo

[SOLIDKREATE]

I had to come back to it 4 times (even after TF) before I fell in love. I actually finished both campaigns. I used to hate RoF too because it was so much harder than War Thunder. After learning to fly and having a simulated pilot workload and pulling off my first kill, I was hooked. Expert servers are like crack cocaine for me. No, I have never done that drug but my addiction to sim mode is high now. It's very rewarding when you get a 'REAL' kill.

Edited November 9, 2014 by KOTP_SPEKTRE76

[ST_ami7b5]

CloD TF is very good. 

My main WWII sim A.T.M.

RoF for WWI.

 

BoS is shelved for now - just watching how the 'things' will evolve...

[Pringliano]

Actually, so overwhelmed that I am with CoD + TF, both DCS World and IL2 BOS are now shelved here too...

 

Each session in CoD + TF is giving me all good reasons to support it, and to look forward for the upcoming 5.0 patch! What a REMARKABLE tallent and work by the original devs, and Team Fusion for making it the true success it now is!

 

Chuck, as usual, thank you so much for your post and links!  Your Youtube channel is a mandatory poll for me :-)

[FuriousMeow]

Well, ground handling is actually very good!  I find it much better than in BOS or even DCS ?  What do you think is wrong with it?

 

 

Unless TF has added lateral traction to landing gear wheels on the terrain, then the ground handling is not better than DCS or BoS.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3270086/1 - it might be an old thread, but still relevant if there is no lateral traction for the wheels on the terrain.

Edited November 11, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Pringliano]

Thx for the link FuriousMeow, reading it!

 

Best Whiskas!  ;-)

 

 

EDIT:  Just gave it  read, the first posts, and this is not the CoD I have installed in my rig since last friday :-)

 

Something must have changed because I do find ground handling just on spot! And yes you can ground loop, and yes you can even porpoise like I have never experienced in other sims!

Edited November 11, 2014 by jcomm

[FuriousMeow]

Not the first post, the posts by 2005AD.

 

I would have to see a "patch" notes from TF to verify actual lateral traction being added for landing gear wheels in CloD. It didn't exist before, the closest there ever was was an announcement by the original devs they were adding lateral wheel traction to vehicles but that is as far as it went. If you are just reacting, and porposing, to propellor effects that is different than lateral wheel traction. Of course, porposing compared to other sims doesn't make it any more realistic or accurate. I'm concerned about lateral wheel traction, the thing that causes the BoS 190 to pivot around wildly if the tail wheel isn't locked. That is a real ground loop.

Edited November 11, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Pringliano]

I have certainly ground looped too, in the 109.

 

Anyway, I'll try lateral friction, by landing in sideslip, as soon as my furious pussycat leaves the PC free for simming activities... Pussycats are hard to convince though :-(, so it may take quite a while....

 

Then, I would preferably try it on grass and non-grass runways, but I am still trying to find them in the Map ....

 

I'll report back anyway 

Edited November 11, 2014 by jcomm

[FuriousMeow]

Compare it to the older Il-2 series, they never added lateral wheel traction. You could taxi around and watch the terrain slip sideways under the wheels. It was exactly the same with CloD. TF said they were looking into a way to do it, and hope to get it working - the only way I can see them doing it is by hacking the wheel interaction model of the ground vehicles to the landing gear wheels of the planes. This video shows the vehicle wheel/terrain interaction very well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZC29KL_wSBo#t=47

 

That was sorely absent from aircraft and unless TF added it/copied it over from the vehicle's to the aircraft then it still is absent. I recall them saying they were looking into a way to do it, but I never read that they succesfully had it working yet.

 

But without lateral wheel traction, ground loops in CloD are not realistic - they can't be. It'd be like having flight departure result in a skid (permanent accelerated stall I suppose) across the sky rather than ever exiting flight. Not a perfect comparrison, but somewhat demonstrates how the lack of lateral wheel traction does mean that the ground handling model isn't the best.

Edited November 11, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Pringliano]

I will try to investigate.

 

Landing in a sideslip will be one of my tests, also wheel turns at higher throttle settings, use of asymmetric thrust on any of the twin bombers and hopefully taxiing, taking off and landing in crosswind conditions....

 

It true then I'll look forward for a future fix :-/

[GP*]

I'd much rather have poor ground handling and good flight modeling than the pitch and rudder oscillations present in BOS .

 

I'm looking forward to trying CLOD once my new parts arrive (i7 4790K and GTX 980 ). I've been able to just barely play a QMB on my ancient 9800 GTX+ !

[DD_bongodriver]

I have the 4790k and a GTX970, super smooth even over the centre of London on maximum settings.

[Pringliano]

Mine is an i5 2500 k @ 3,3 GHz and an ASUS GTX 650 Ti 1GB - runs smooth at CUSTOM made of of MEDIUM and HIGH settings.

Edited November 11, 2014 by jcomm

[FuriousMeow]

I'd much rather have poor ground handling and good flight modeling than the pitch and rudder oscillations present in BOS .

 

Sure, go ahead. It'll be just like MSFS' good flight modeling. Not very advanced maths, doesn't require multiple cores to run the advanced physics, but its good. Not good enough to model proper ground handeling because that is still tied into the FM but good. "Good."

[Pringliano]

Furious... I already told so at another thread.... but DCS, my preferred flight sim, uses 2 cores as well, one for the sounds ... EDGE may change this....

 

And, btw, how many cores does BOS use? do you know?

 

BTW: I'm a long time MSFS user, believe me with some knowledge of MSFS's internals... I reallly couldn't even consider comparing MSFS to CoD, BOS or DCS... Other than being flight simulators....

Edited November 11, 2014 by jcomm

[FuriousMeow]

BoS uses four cores. Yes I do know.

 

MSFS is to FS what CloD is to Air Combat FS. Smoke and mirrors - that is CloD.

Edited November 11, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Pringliano]

 

MSFS is to FS what CloD is to Air Combat FS. Smoke and mirrors - that is CloD.

 

Ok, think I'll smoke it then ;-)