rudder problems

[Yakdriver]

his reply was moderated later, and i was young (19?), so i shot back and spewed hate.
banhammer!

 

but srsly... this thread is dead...

[tovarisch]

Ok guys...may be I change my mind and I am looking now into a joystick with rudder. I read in most of you (experienced flyers) how the rudder is an important part of the flying process, and specialy in this game, and may be I am loosing something, as, some of you say, it changes the flying sentation when it is somehow integrated in the flying workflow. I suppose it is the same when you do not have trackir, you can live with joystick views, but it changes completely when you have one. Thank you all for your input and expertized opinions.I surrender after all, I will be a good simmer and I will play with a good joystick ) to be accepted by the community

PD: do not push further...I will not go into pedals in anyway. )

 

Thank you all guys.

[Potenz]

Ok guys...may be I change my mind and I am looking now into a joystick with rudder. I read in most of you (experienced flyers) how the rudder is an important part of the flying process, and specialy in this game, and may be I am loosing something, as, some of you say, it changes the flying sentation when it is somehow integrated in the flying workflow. I suppose it is the same when you do not have trackir, you can live with joystick views, but it changes completely when you have one. Thank you all for your input and expertized opinions.I surrender after all, I will be a good simmer and I will play with a good joystick ) to be accepted by the community

PD: do not push further...I will not go into pedals in anyway. )

 

Thank you all guys.

acceptance, not so soon my friend, once your get yer joystick, you will have

to pass a sacred ancient ritual, that will tell if you deserve belong here, or be

pushed into the dark pits of doom....       

 

Try to get a Saitek cyborg or EVO they are good strating point and not so expensive.

 

anyway where are you from???

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

PD: do not push further...I will not go into pedals in anyway

Yes you will, first it will be, hey I can fly it a little better with the twisty then that leads to..I wonder how the rudder pedals could make it seem more like the real thing..I bet I can get more kills too! Then that leads to... I need trackIR, throttle quadrants, a proper HOTAS set up, more than one screen, and a bigger screen..and just like that you find out you're a sim junkie!   

So enjoy the addiction! S!

Edited November 7, 2014 by Blackwolf

[Sokol1]

"I can never understand why a $30 joystick is such an insurmountable obstacle for flight sims."

Well, is need consider that outside USA/Europe sim controllers tends to be very expensive, in this "corner of the world" a Saitek PRO Pedal cost ~330$ (USD).

[Potenz]

here too but, i bought my one when it was only 170 usd

and the quadrant for 70 usd and the x-52 i paid 120usd but that was back in 2008

 

anyways prices are not an excuse to not buy a joystick there are pretty cheap ones

even in south america

Edited November 7, 2014 by GOAPotenz

[SharpeXB]

"I can never understand why a $30 joystick is such an insurmountable obstacle for flight sims."

Well, is need consider that outside USA/Europe sim controllers tends to be very expensive, in this "corner of the world" a Saitek PRO Pedal cost ~330$ (USD).

Yes Pro HOTAS comtrollers are expensive. But a simple twist axis stick is about $30 US. That's all you need to start. I hear the Devs keep making that point on videos and streams. "All you need is a simple joystick!" Edited November 7, 2014 by SharpeXB

[Yakdriver]

you are comparing a joystick for 30 balls to a saitek PRO (notice PRO=extra super duper expensive) Pedal

Joystick. Pedal. not the same thing.

 

i can have one for 236Euros ion my corner of the world, which is 16% of the money i got in the last pay.

and then i spend one day on the train to go pick it up..., bringing the price to around 300Dollars [if i take a free ride on the Brussels bus system and won't get caught]

or i can have it delivered to me for 316 dollars.

http://www.simw.com/all/pro-flight-cessnar-rudder-pedals.html

 

and that brings the price to 22% of my pay.
so one out of five dollars gets send towards this toy.

 

or one of five exactly -20,33%

and one of 8 days off will get spent.

 

Things like pedals are ot cheap here either.

But that is not the subject.
The subject is a Flight Sim Stick with multiple axes, a bunch of buttons and a rudder function.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Hawker_Typhoon

[Sokol1]

30$ on Amazon, in the others "corner of the world" can cost ~90$.  

 

What our hardcore advisers miss in this case is: what the OP ask coincide with the game philosophy to be acessible, but the "Less keys is better" is not, and are various "cosmetic" controls that can be exchanged for center rudder.

Since "95%" of target market is casual players, the plane basic controls should be accessible and practical to common periphericals (keyboard/mouse). 

If one became a "virtual ace" whitout rudder pedals is another history, but a casual SP player can live without one. I have rudder pedal, twist stick and most of time (QM) I dont use any, only a old Combatstick.

[Yakdriver]

so get it from amazon.
?

that exact thing for 19.90 and ... oops no free shipping because you are in Brazil not in the US.

[Sokol1]

In this case will cost more than 90$ (shipping, import fees). BTW- I dont need one, I have 8 or 9 sticks, dont ask...

[Yakdriver]

viva brazil...
thank your government!

[tovarisch]

Yes you will, first it will be, hey I can fly it a little better with the twisty then that leads to..I wonder how the rudder pedals could make it seem more like the real thing..I bet I can get more kills too! Then that leads to... I need trackIR, throttle quadrants, a proper HOTAS set up, more than one screen, and a bigger screen..and just like that you find out you're a sim junkie!   

So enjoy the addiction! S!

You know I will....  , I know there is no way back...I resisted myself for years...I was happy with my keyboard rudder....until I reach this community of simmers..

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

can some one explain to me why my rudder in the 109 goes full left when I'm at 650kph? shouldn't wind when rushing over the horizontal stabilizer and rudder be equal pressure,

thus causing it to be centered? and my having to place the rudder hard left to slow the plane down be harder for me to do since the wind is rushing over the control surface at 650kph?

[39bn_pavig]

can some one explain to me why my rudder in the 109 goes full left when I'm at 650kph? shouldn't wind when rushing over the horizontal stabilizer and rudder be equal pressure,

 

It is my understanding that at speed you had to stomp the heck out of the rudders to get any effect due to their shaved off shape. This was a design decision to stop wobbles during dives, and persisted across the whole line. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=NFTEPiyEiSsC&lpg=PA97&dq=Flying%20to%20the%20limit%20page%2097&pg=PA97#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Yakdriver]

please try again

 

[39bn_pavig]

please try again...

 

Strange. Works for me. 

Flying to the Limit: Testing WWII Single-Engined Fighters

 By Peter Caygill

Page 97, or thereabouts. The chapter is all about testing the performance of the 109E. The long and the short of it is that it responds fairly snappily up to about 250mph but rapidly becomes unresponsive above that, in the case of elevators/aerlerons due to high strength required to move them, and in the case of the rudder, just because it doesn't seem to respond to rudder much at  when it's going fast enough. 

[unreasonable]

can some one explain to me why my rudder in the 109 goes full left when I'm at 650kph? shouldn't wind when rushing over the horizontal stabilizer and rudder be equal pressure,

thus causing it to be centered? and my having to place the rudder hard left to slow the plane down be harder for me to do since the wind is rushing over the control surface at 650kph?

I will try at risk of being shot down in flames by one of the experts:

 

The plane naturally yaws left due to engine torque. The degree of this yawing is related to engine power and speed. The rudder has no trim tab, but is designed to counteract the slight yaw to the left at around about the economy cruise setting, so if you are at rpm 2100 the ball should be centered.

 

At low speeds, eg in take off, the rudder has little centering moment, engine is at full power and the torque takes over, so full right rudder is required.

 

At high speeds left rudder is required, because the rudder offset designed to counter torque at cruising speed now has enough air rushing over it to create a yaw to the right. Although the rudder deflection required to fly straight is small, the effort required to keep it there is enough to cause considerable fatigue after a long period at combat cruise.

 

Experten please feel free to correct my account.

[BzKBravoZulu]

acceptance, not so soon my friend, once your get yer joystick, you will have

to pass a sacred ancient ritual, that will tell if you deserve belong here, or be

pushed into the dark pits of doom....       

 

Try to get a Saitek cyborg or EVO they are good strating point and not so expensive.

 

anyway where are you from???

 

OR PIX YOU CAN GET A LOGITECH EXTREME 3D PRO...

 

Saitek is a hit or miss brand in terms of build quality... The 3d pro is such a tough and reliable stick build like a tank.

I've had 5 sticks, 2 of them saitek which I had specially imported from the states (Im in South Africa) - Both saiteks stick

(st260 & the cybrog Evo) both broke with in a couple of months... Really was disappointed, cause Im left handed and

they were the only stick made for both left and right handed people.

 

Get the 3D Pro, you'll love it... Also, in case you're tempted to get a force feedback stick on your joystick hunt... Don't.

The FF sticks simply don't have anywhere near the control or precision as a stiff spring joystick.

[tovarisch]

OR PIX YOU CAN GET A LOGITECH EXTREME 3D PRO...

 

Saitek is a hit or miss brand in terms of build quality... The 3d pro is such a tough and reliable stick build like a tank.

I've had 5 sticks, 2 of them saitek which I had specially imported from the states (Im in South Africa) - Both saiteks stick

(st260 & the cybrog Evo) both broke with in a couple of months... Really was disappointed, cause Im left handed and

they were the only stick made for both left and right handed people.

 

Get the 3D Pro, you'll love it... Also, in case you're tempted to get a force feedback stick on your joystick hunt... Don't.

The FF sticks simply don't have anywhere near the control or precision as a stiff spring joystick.

Thanks Bravo. I will look into it. Looks promising.

[39bn_pavig]

+1 on the logitech extreme 3D pro. Best bang for buck stick you can buy. They make them in such numbers that you can often find them at discount. They're tough enough that if I was really skint I'd even buy one second hand. Good precision and build quality better than many more expensive sticks.

 

I hear the thrustmaster T-flight HOTAS is good too for cheap, but the logitech I can vouch for. (I use a saitek x55 + pedals, but keep the Logitech as my fallback stick.)