A coming WW2 TV drama and how to capitalize on it

[Rjel]

That they could find enough men to continue to fly the missions after seeing entire squadrons not returning  says more than anything any historian (real or those of us who think they are ) ever could. That most never survived the 25 mission mark in 1943 and into '44 seems to always allude those who want to degrade the effort.  

[Finkeren]

That they could find enough men to continue to fly the missions after seeing entire squadrons not returning  says more than anything any historian (real or those of us who think they are ) ever could. That most never survived the 25 mission mark in 1943 and into '44 seems to always allude those who want to degrade the effort.  

 

 

Loss rates were as bad or worse in the VVS bomber/attack plane squadrons. Yet there were still thousands of people volunteering to fly combat missions with hundreds being rejected for service repeatedly, and they still kept coming back.

 

Just shows, that a war situation, especially when your own nation is under threat, can make people behave quite suicidally.

 

The USAAF crews at least had that 25 mission mark to look forward to.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Finkeren

[Yakdriver]

As you may or may not know, the US production house HBO is making a series called Masters of the Air or The Mighty Eighth.

 

It’s about the US Eight Air Force and is being billed as the next Band of Brothers.

 

After Band of Brothers was released there was an explosion in games based on WW2 combat and a revival of interest in WW2 generally.  There was Call of Duty and Brothers in Arms, etc.

 

I think the makers of this game should be building a European theatre for il2 NOW in preparation for the release of this new series to capitalise on what will likely spark a new interest in WW2 air combat.

 

1C could build a northern Germany map, an AI B-17 (or better yet an operational one),  a P-47 and some late war FW-190s and 109s.

 

1C doesn’t need to be working with HBO or whatever, it just needs to be in the market when the series hits.

 

Over to you.

 

(To thank me for this great idea you can get rid of this terrible unlocks business).

 

 

HBO chose a poor subject.

Whiile it is true that Band of Brothers was  awesome to me, because i had absolutely NO clue of the subject at all, i msut say that i am saturated of american stuff on every front - air, land , sea.

 

I am disappointed that HBO did not chose something more difficult to portray, more difficult to sell.

 

and if HBO does "popular subjects", they should get as far away from flight sims as they can... whetever they would do, would be riddled with clichés.

Wich  is a thing that no Flight sim needs.

 

Had they in mind doing a "night fighter" subject movie [110G, 219, Ju88...] depicting the life of a bunch of germn night fighters, i would havbe welcomed the choice of subject.

Or the Warsaw uprising. The invasion of Greece. The massive Paradropping on Krete. Mitchells over Italy. Invasion of southern France. Dunkerque. Firebombing Dresden for a week.

 

There are a lot of subjects worth depicting that have not been touched, and HBO would have good resources to dive into these subjects. Getting close to the Soldiers[pilots] and their lower level commanders, following them through a peroiod of a few weeks or months,,,

The Warsaw uprising in particular would need scrutiny, because the time it lasted would be counted/limited for the script writers and the intensity of the people's lives could be depicted in great detail.

 

I am sure there are tons more subjects, but The mighty 8th... is just an overused subject. How about The subject of a Typhoon squadron's life for the period of the battle of the bulge? Or the shutting down of the French train networks?

 

Not for me, this is.

Pass...

Edited November 2, 2014 by Hawker_Typhoon

[SR-F_Winger]

+1 to OP. Very good point.

BUT: I want a 262 please:)

Edited November 2, 2014 by VSG1_Winger

[Leaf]

How about The subject of a Typhoon squadron's life for the period of the battle of the bulge? Or the shutting down of the French train networks?

 

Ha! Of course you'd say that! :D

 

I don't want to get into the politics of it, but on the whole, anything that increases interest in WW2 aviation is a good thing, I think. 

Not quite sure on how exactly to capitalise on it just yet, but maybe we can figure something out.

[unreasonable]

BoS really cannot make the jump to strategic bombing, much as I would love to firebomb Hamburg in a Lancaster - but it could do N.Africa/ Med operations very well. This would give us Italian and German vs RAF, Commonwealth and US airforces ,  some relatively easy maps ( Tobruk, El Alamein, Tunisia, Malta) since large built up areas are few (but should include Cairo just for the Pyramids), and lots of credible small scale tactical operations.

 

Now this I would pay extra for, even with the ghastly unlock business.

[Feathered_IV]

I very much enjoyed Band of Brothers.  The Pacific however...    I hope the 'Eighth doesn't follow in its footsteps.

[Rjel]

Loss rates were as bad or worse in the VVS bomber/attack plane squadrons. Yet there were still thousands of people volunteering to fly combat missions with hundreds being rejected for service repeatedly, and they still kept coming back.

 

Just shows, that a war situation, especially when your own nation is under threat, can make people behave quite suicidally.

 

The USAAF crews at least had that 25 mission mark to look forward to.

Off topic how? It was the friggin' topic of the original post. You're the one who introduced the off topic part of the thread.  

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

Why do so many threads in here end up as pi**ing contests?

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Perhaps the (assumed) American producers of the new HBO are as proud of our American heritage as the 1C producers are proud of their heritage. We also know companies such HBO are driven by revenue too so they must feel there's a market for this. HBO has production companies in countries that do come up with local programming not seen in other countries.

 

I don't have the link at hand but their was one on flight Sims where the older IL-2 was mentioned.

 

I understand where the original poster is coming from and the varying opinions of theater preferences. I like diversity myself as it feeds my curiosity. IL-2 BoS is perfectly placed. And if it is a success as the original was (eventually), then there is a future for WW2 flight Sims and it's modding. Between Clod (Russian made) and it's present modding, the DCS WW2 project, and Box, we have a lot to be thankful for.

 

Chief

 

[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKLV4rpxfuE

Edited November 2, 2014 by -NW-ChiefRedCloud

[Rjel]

Why do so many threads in here end up as pi**ing contests?

Simple I think. Too many experts around here without the knowledge of history they believe they possess. That and a bias so obvious it's shameful.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

In my above post Box in the last sentence should be BoS. Auto correct, curse it, changed it and for some reason I can not correct it.

 

Chief

[CisTer-dB-]

I know what you mean.  I would like to build an RAF Bomber Command title.  Not a flight sim, but more a crew simulator. 

The kind where you can walk or crawl from one end of the fuselage to the other, talk to the crew and do your assigned duty.

Very heavy emphasis on crew interraction. No 8-12 hour flights.  Each mission is told in a series of dynamically generated

"episodes" that save your progress at the conclusion of each and can be continued at leisure.

Hell yeah!

[Finkeren]

Off topic how? It was the friggin' topic of the original post. You're the one who introduced the off topic part of the thread.

And if you take a look at my post you'll see, that I used the "off topic" emoticons to mark my own post, not yours

[chris455]

In my above post Box in the last sentence should be BoS. Auto correct, curse it, changed it and for some reason I can not correct it.

 

Chief

We knew what you meant, Chief 

[YSoMadTovarisch]

I don't know how anyone could conclude that day or night strategic bombing, in the ETO, was in any respect "pussyfied", given that tens of thousands of airmen were killed doing it, but I do wonder whether it would really work as a mass appeal sim.  Given the complexity required to do the concept justice, I suspect it's just too risky.   Something ETO and 'tactical' on the other hand, involving fighter-bombers and medium bombers; now that could be good.

 

ETO may have been larger on scale but it was nowhere near as merciless as the air war on the Eastern front, it also didn't have a lot of a nonstop close in dogfighting.

[IRRE_Belmont]

T'would be cool if HBO decided to cover the other side of the war, maybe following the Wehrmacht on the russian front or even the Japaneses.

Even if those guys were ''the bad guys'' at the times, i would really enjoy to see the human side of those guys, and their experience during WW2.

 

But hey, history is written by the winners they say

[=LD=Hethwill]

Keep it ETO and capitalize the American market by expanding into carrier fleets in the pacific. Yes yes, Mustang all you want but a sexy Lighting or a Jug, those are the ones that RTB.

 

I am curious to see what HBO conjures out of this. Being a old war movies fan I find the new generation of politically correctness tongue in cheek with almost comical drawn out antagonists and superfluous gore and CGI explosions.

 

Battle of Britain and Blue Max. Those are great aviation movies. The latter having some of the best air scenes ever till today.

 

Yep, I am very very curious if HBO going to use Jetman  to do some camera work :D

[Yakdriver]

Ha! Of course you'd say that! :D

hey i have a reputation to defend, you know?

what else was i sposed to do!

Us fighterbombers need love and attention too!

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

I didn't know about this series.  I hope they keep Band of Brothers as the bar to reach for, so much crap in war movies normally.

 

I think the majority of American youth don't have a clue about the air war in Europe during WWII, or any place else for the matter, and the human price paid.  Maybe this series will awaken some.

 

From Wiki, just on the 8th.

 

 

Casualties and awards

These missions, however, carried a high price. Half of the U.S. Army Air Force's casualties in World War II were suffered by Eighth Air Force (more than 47,000 casualties, with more than 26,000 dead). Seventeen Medals of Honor went to Eighth Air Force personnel during the war. By war's end, they had been awarded a number of other medals to include 220 Distinguished Service Crosses, and 442,000 Air Medals. Many more awards were made to Eighth Air Force veterans after the war that remain uncounted. There were 261 fighter aces in the Eighth Air Force during World War II. Thirty-one of these aces had 15 or more aircraft kills apiece. Another 305 enlisted gunners were also recognized as aces.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Stick, I'm an American and proud of it, but many youth of today don't even have a clue what is going on today, much less as far back as WW2. And these are college students, so go figure. Now for my disclaimer .... IF you are a college student reading this and you DO know your history, good and well. But know you most likely are THE exception.

 

Chief

[[KWN]T-oddball]

Why do so many threads in here end up as pi**ing contests?

welcome to the interwebs, attitudes,ego,s and anonymity are the Holy Trinity of this medium

[DeafBee]

Found the trailer. Looks very interesting.

 

[LLv44_Mprhead]

That's not trailer for HBO series, if I have understood correctly.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

That's not trailer for HBO series, if I have understood correctly.

 

I hope not!  I don't recall that the 8th went to Kassel in '42 (in fact, I thought it was primarily the Brits that visited there), and I am a little confused about nobody using oxygen or any evidence that it was particularly cold - perhaps a low level bombing raid?

 

At least they seem to have used a -17 model appropriate to the time period.

[76SQN-FatherTed]

Why do so many threads in here end up as pi**ing contests?

Coz people post when they're drinking beer?

 

Actually, I think the OP has a valid point.  Whether or not 1C/777 are in a position to "cash in" is another question.  Also, without wanting to fan the flames of the east/west debate, I believe that the development of BoS was encouraged by the Russian government because it depicted the Patriotic War.  Obviously the ETO doesn't have that.

Edited November 2, 2014 by =CfC=FatherTed

[Valok]

T'would be cool if HBO decided to cover the other side of the war, maybe following the Wehrmacht on the russian front or even the Japaneses.

Even if those guys were ''the bad guys'' at the times, i would really enjoy to see the human side of those guys, and their experience during WW2.

Definitely, it's not like there's no material around to be found. A Higher Call comes to mind..

 

Also dear reader, if you have not yet read this book, do yourself a favor and get it (audiobook also available).

Edited November 2, 2014 by Valok

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

That's not trailer for HBO series, if I have understood correctly.

 

That's what come up in the youtube search ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBy_FIlcOJs

 

"The Mighty Eighth" - Exclusive Teaser Footage (HD) JoBlo.com

 

Just in time for Veteran's Day, we have a really cool exclusive for you, which comes in the form of a sneak peek at teaser footage/concept trailer for THE MIGHTY EIGHTH, a WWII epic that focuses on the B17 air crews piloting through the onslaught of the Luftwaffe. The footage was put together by Hydraulx, the special effects company formed by Greg & Colin Strause (SKYLINE, TAKE SHELTER). The film has yet to be shot with the script out to cast and making its debut at AFM, so this is a unique peek at not only the proposed film, but how it's being sold in the early stages. It's a very cool teaser, regardless, and one that shows a mountain of potential for the project.

 

Plot: Five miles above the earth and deep behind enemy lines, eleven men inside a bomber known as the "Flying Fortress" fight for their lives against swarms of enemy German fighters. As American bombers are picked off one by one, their mission becomes very clear: survive.

 

THE MIGHTY EIGHTH was written by Kurt Johnstad (300, 300: RISE OF AN EMPIRE, ACT OF VALOR) and is produced by David Hoberman (THE FIGHTER, THE PROPOSAL), Todd Lieberman (THE FIGHTER, THE PROPOSAL) and Greg & Colin Strause, with director Rick Jacobson (BITCH SLAP, Starz Spartacus: War of the Damned) taking the helm

 

Though this says nothing of HBO it is the only thing that came up in their search .... so don't know with a certainty but it looks interesting anyway.

 

Chief

Edited November 2, 2014 by -NW-ChiefRedCloud

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

Definitely, it's not like there's no material around to be found. A Higher Call comes to mind..

 

Also dear reader, if you have not yet read this book, do yourself a favor and get it (audiobook also available).

 

 

In the doing...

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3014928/

[LLv44_Mprhead]

HBO series is supposedly based on book Masters of Air. From earlier searches I got the impression that Mighty 8th is different production and what you wrote Chief supports that, I think. Imo it would be a bit weird if that was trailer for the HBO production since it clearly is unhistorical. There was no 1942 8th air force raid to Kassel.

[Chuck_Owl]

It makes more sense for DCS to pick up this one too. They already have a map and some fighters in the works that would be at least somewhat useful for at flyable B-17, and a full fledged study sim would propably be better at portraying a big heavy bomber like the B-17 than the slightly simplified BoS.

 

I have to agree: the B-17 is such a complex and incredibly FUN plane to fly that I'm not sure the Digital Nature engine could do it justice. I'd rather see it in DCS as well, if only for the joy of doing the proper start-up procedure and managing the engines just like the real air crews did.

 

Flying a heavy bomber is quite an experience. FSX just gave me a preview of the possibilities, and it's mouth-watering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJkrACtvMRY 

[chris455]

A2A Simulations products are breathtaking. I have the P-47 and the Piper cub.

The P-47 models every system on board, vice the radio direction finding audio system (cant remember what it's called).

This only because FSX can't support it.

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

As much as I respect u guys for loving it that complex, it just isn't for me..... Too complex and timeconsuming... i jst don't have the time for a 10 min start up sequence

[Jaws2002]

Oh yeah.

 

I can just imagine myself going up in in a FW-190 A8 to unlock my wing canons, and meet a majestic box formation of three B - 17s protected by a single mustang.

 

Just imagine the immersion. ...

Edited November 2, 2014 by Jaws2002

[Bumfluff]

Guys calm down.

 

I started this thread giving up an idea that the company could use to generate more profits and put it back into the game to make more theaters and planes.

 

That's what we all want, right?

[Chuck_Owl]

As much as I respect u guys for loving it that complex, it just isn't for me..... Too complex and timeconsuming... i jst don't have the time for a 10 min start up sequence

 

And nobody's blaming you, mate. If you think pressing a single key to start the aircraft is just difficult enough for you, well as long as you still have fun I don't have a problem with it. Everyone's entitled to his own opinion.

 

But I must tell you...

 

I don't believe in something being "too complex" nor time-consuming. You'd be surprised to see how many people I "trained" in the A-10, Huey, Mi-8, P-51 and FW190. Even people who had no prior knowledge of how the aircraft was operated. Most of the time, I can get a trainee up in the air and autonomous in about 15 minutes in a short 1 on 1 conversation on teamspeak. Most of the time, I can explain "complex" aircraft by using simple terms and people understand almost right away. This is why I like to write guides: you figure out things on your own and then you find a simple way to explain how the aircraft works and how it must be operated. I try to keep my guides brief, to the point and you get to know what you need to know without having to read a technical novel.

 

For me, complexity is an illusion: most of the time it's just a simple thing that hasn't been explained to you in terms you can understand.

Edited November 2, 2014 by 71st_AH_Chuck

[DeafBee]

Sorry for posting the wrong trailer. 

[Rjel]

I think it's a little unfair to pin point the youth of today for not knowing how the air war in Europe, the Pacific or even on the Eastern Front went. Honestly, can any of us say we would were it not an interest? How many here know (without Googling it) the history of steam locomotion? It could be argued that was a turning point in human history also. World War Two and its airwar isn't any more relevant to the youth of today than is steam power to most of us.

[Finkeren]

I think it's a little unfair to pin point the youth of today for not knowing how the air war in Europe, the Pacific or even on the Eastern Front went. Honestly, can any of us say we would were it not an interest? How many here know (without Googling it) the history of steam locomotion? It could be argued that was a turning point in human history also. World War Two and its airwar isn't any more relevant to the youth of today than is steam power to most of us.

Well said.

 

All the specific details of WW2 can be left to those who have the interest. The political ramifications of the war still needs to be taught to everyone though.

[Rjel]

Well said.

 

All the specific details of WW2 can be left to those who have the interest. The political ramifications of the war still needs to be taught to everyone though.

I can buy that. Every step man has taken has lead us to where we are today. Obviously I guess. I wish when I was in school, the technical resources available today to teach history had been available. All we had were text and library books and film strip projectors. And how many here even know what those multi-media wonders were?

Edited November 2, 2014 by Rjel