Reasons why i almost exclusively play BoS - unbiased WW2-sim ranking

[t4trouble]

 

 

no the big first one was shot down by a 262 (with 30mm you know), i have that exact same picture in my book + explanations and stuff

 

 

I was just asking about 262 had 4 30mm  im not surprised the B17 ended up like that 

 

I thought we talking about cannon round damage ?

 

But i'm not trolling you, i thought we were having a disccusion.

 

I'll leave it alone, peace Celestiale 

•  

[Willy__]

For the FM of COD I am very satisfied since the latest patch, the DM is nice, the only negative point is the fact that clouds do appear near your plane and never cover the horizon?! 

 

Oh god please no! That is the primary reason I left that game behind and now I play almost exclusively BoS. It's just too stupid, you spent all your cannon rounds (120) on a spit and it continues to fly, like nothing hapenned, except with a few holes on the wing, just utter bs.

 

The DM of BoS is good. Last night me and my friend went on escorting a lone 111, after that we went to the frontlines looking for enemy planes. The results of the night were that I bagged a yak and my friend got an IL2. But we got home severely damaged, my 190 was full of holes and my cannopy got shot and flew off and my friend had his 109 leaking fuel and coolant, but we managed to get home nevertheless.

Edited November 3, 2014 by istruba

[DD_bongodriver]

Oh god please no! That is the primary reason I left that game behind and now I play almost exclusively BoS. It's just too stupid, you spent all your cannon rounds (120) on a spit and it continues to fly, like nothing hapenned, except with a few holes on the wing, just utter bs.

 

The DM of BoS is good. Last night me and my friend went on escorting a lone 111, after that we went to the frontlines looking for enemy planes. The results of the night were that I bagged a yak and my friend got an IL2. But we got home severely damaged, my 190 was full of holes and my cannopy got shot and flew off and my friend had his 109 leaking fuel and coolant, but we managed to get home nevertheless.

 

So you moan about Clod because Spitfires make it home full of holes and then gush about BOS when your aircraft make it home full of holes.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

So you moan about Clod because Spitfires make it home full of holes and then gush about BOS when your aircraft make it home full of holes.

 

and again. You inflict something, which he didn't say.

He said, he got fed up, that the Spits hold so much damage, so much cannon rounds. And he has a point. He didn't say anything about it,by how many bullets his 190 got hit.

You inflict something completely different, he never said, seemingly just to start arguing.

I don't get it, really

Edited November 3, 2014 by Celestiale

[LBR=H_Ostermann]

So you moan about Clod because Spitfires make it home full of holes and then gush about BOS when your aircraft make it home full of holes.

 

I already told him exactly the same above one time, but in portuguese of course.

 

Spitfire in Clod don't need 120 Cannons rounds to get down, only 3/4 do the job. I think, 70% of my kills I killed the pilot, if the pilot is dead, you don't need to cut wings off.

[II./JG27_Rich]

Oh god please no! That is the primary reason I left that game behind and now I play almost exclusively BoS. It's just too stupid, you spent all your cannon rounds (120) on a spit and it continues to fly, like nothing hapenned, except with a few holes on the wing, just utter bs.

 

The DM of BoS is good. Last night me and my friend went on escorting a lone 111, after that we went to the frontlines looking for enemy planes. The results of the night were that I bagged a yak and my friend got an IL2. But we got home severely damaged, my 190 was full of holes and my cannopy got shot and flew off and my friend had his 109 leaking fuel and coolant, but we managed to get home nevertheless.

JG4_skylon

 

http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/IIJG27Rich/media/JG4_0001_zps73yvsf27.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0

[II./JG77_Manu*]

JG4_skylon

 

http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/IIJG27Rich/media/JG4_0001_zps73yvsf27.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0

nice.

yes, i noticed that with the last patch (4.312) the damage model in CloD got a loot better, now it's way closer to BoS. But i think the Mg is to weak, when you look what Hans Joachim Marseille could do with only MG, he shot down 6 allied planes (Spitfires, Hurricanes, P40) in one sortie, with only mg, because his cannons were jammed. I think this is not possible in CloD, regardless how good your aim is. And as long as this is not possible under any circumstances, the CloD damage model is still to tanky (although a lot better then in the past)

Edit:I corrected my claim above, he shot down 11 allied planes in another sortie, but then he also used his cannon.

HJ-Marseille needed on average 1,5sec Mg-Burst, to shot down an allied figher plane (30 Mg rounds per gun). Now show me that in Clod

Edited November 3, 2014 by Celestiale

[II./JG27_Rich]

You have the option of selecting what type of shells to put in your belt also but I'm no pro at that. The best thing to do would be to look at apeoftheyear's tutor vid on youtube about it.

[LBR=H_Ostermann]

nice.

yes, i noticed that with the last patch (4.312) the damage model in CloD got a loot better, now it's way closer to BoS. But i think the Mg is to weak, when you look what Hans Joachim Marseille could do with only MG, he shot down 11 allied planes (Spitfires, Hurricanes, P40) in one sortie, with only mg, because his cannons were jammed. I think this is not possible in CloD, regardless how good your aim is. And as long as this is not possible under any circumstances, the CloD damage model is still to tanky (although a lot better then in the past)

 

 

If you are a good shooter and the target stay straight you can do this. I shoot 9 planes in one sortie in Clod, 4 only with MG-17 and I cold do more, but have to get back to the base because I running out of fuel.

 

Here is the full report:

 

Damage report

 

 

 

***** Damage Caused *****

 

Plane: HurricaneMkI_100oct

---- Inflicted:

     Fuel tank tiny leak

     Machine gun failure

     Machine gun failure

     Machine gun failure

     Machine gun belt broken

     Machine gun belt broken

     Machine gun line damaged

     Fuel tank tiny leak

     Engine oil cooling/lubrication damage

     Under carriage damage

Plane: SpitfireMkIa_100oct

---- Inflicted:

     Under carriage damage

     Engine oil cooling/lubrication damage

     Machine gun line damaged

     Machine gun line damaged

     Machine gun line damaged

     Machine gun line damaged

     Engine water cooling damage

Plane: SpitfireMkIa_100oct

---- Inflicted:

     Electrical generator damaged

     Electrical battery damaged

     Elevator disabled

     Rudder disabled

Plane: SpitfireMkIa_100oct

---- Inflicted:

     Machine gun failure

     Machine gun line damaged

     Machine gun line damaged

     Ailerons disabled

     Electrical generator damaged

     Electrical battery damaged

     Rudder disabled

     Flaps failure

     Under carriage damage

     Under carriage damage

Plane: SpitfireMkIIa

---- Inflicted:

     Engine damage

     Machine gun failure

     Machine gun failure

     Machine gun line damaged

     Machine gun line damaged

     Machine gun line damaged

     Machine gun line damaged

     Electrical generator damaged

     Electrical battery damaged

     Rudder disabled

     Under carriage damage

     Machine gun failure

     Ailerons disabled

Plane: SpitfireMkIa_100oct

---- Inflicted:

     Wheel brakes failure

     Wheel brakes damage

     Machine gun failure

     Cockpit damage

     Flaps failure

     Electrical failure

     Cockpit damage

Plane: SpitfireMkIa_100oct

---- Inflicted:

     Engine oil cooling/lubrication damage

Plane: SpitfireMkIa_100oct

---- Inflicted:

     Pneumatics container perforated

     Pneumatics hose perforated

Plane: SpitfireMkIa_100oct

---- Inflicted:

     Engine oil cooling/lubrication damage

Plane: HurricaneMkI_100oct

---- Parts cut off:

     Left Stabilizer

     Left elevator

     Left elevator

Plane: SpitfireMkIa_100oct

---- Parts cut off:

     Rudder

Plane: SpitfireMkIIa

---- Parts cut off:

     Right elevator

     Left aileron

 

**** Stationaries Damaged *****

 

**** Stationaries Destroyed *****

 

**** Buildings Destroyed *****

 

 

 

***** Your plane has these damages: *****

 

 

***** Your plane is missing these parts: *****

[Nil]

I were one of the unlucky ones that got CloD on first day, (or even per-order) I got the IL2 original before it hit the shelves in Sweden, played it.. and quit being a Co-Op in the irc warez channel, and shut down my FTP for good. To play it with some mates, and bought it as soon as it were available.. all of them, every single little addon!
But the coregame in BoS is so damn good, I almost demand it to be a success, and have a 10 year+ run too!
It will probably improve every 2 weeks or once a month, but when the major annoyance is gone [insert the unspeakable word here] I'll be up there in the air again with a grin on my face!

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Ok Oster, not anything you said is visible in your report, but if you say so, i believe you! Nice, then everything should be alright. I already said, that i made a few mistakes in my topic post, and then i'll count the DM stuff also to it. Fired up CloD yesterday again, will start to fly online today, and update my opinion about this game, thanks to you guys, who persuaded me with your posts

I will repost my Topic in Metacritic, after i rewrote a few things (mainly about CloD), but like a few times said before, i unfortunately can't edit my first post, in here 

[II./JG27_Rich]

Just watch some JG4_Karaya youtube videos if anyone doubts the capability of a 109 to take down a Spitfire

[LBR=H_Ostermann]

Ok Oster, not anything you said is visible in your report, but if you say so, i believe you! Nice, then everything should be alright. I already said, that i made a few mistakes in my topic post, and then i'll count the DM stuff also to it. Fired up CloD yesterday again, will start to fly online today, and update my opinion about this game, thanks to you guys, who persuaded me with your posts

I will repost my Topic in Metacritic, after i rewrote a few things (mainly about CloD), but like a few times said before, i unfortunately can't edit my first post, in here 

 

Maybe is my bad english in action? Sorry, for now I Can't do better. You can give a try in SoW server in the saturday/monday. Very nice missions!

 

And like Rich said, Karaya is a very nice pilot that can shoot a spitfire pretty easy.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Maybe is my bad english in action? Sorry, for now I Can't do better. You can give a try in SoW server in the saturday/monday. Very nice missions!

 

And like Rich said, Karaya is a very nice pilot that can shoot a spitfire pretty easy.

no, no problem with your english

ok thx, i'll come by. Right now i am in the Atag, and try my luck with a Spit

[Lusekofte]

I start to avoid topics like this, one side searching for new way of enlighten the crowd how bad this game is , and the other spend much valuable time to defend it.

I know. I was a part of that discussion, but somewhere down the line it should stop.

It is really not normal behavior, there are possibilities to sell the game, I know plenty that have, I have bought games I don't use for decades, I choose to ignore them, I do not visit their site trying to convince other to join my cause of not liking it.

It is much with this game I would like differently, and I hope when this bs end the time to talk will come. In the meantime I spend the time I am able to enjoy in it. 

I am not going to say cod is bad in the process of saying Bos is good.

Cod got a perfect balance between realism and fun, you cannot really enjoy cod until you manage the engine in stressful condition, it take a while to master it. But it is not difficult.

Cod players are not ubermenchen , they fly BOS also, and enjoy it for the more un formal fun it is. 

In its fault and right I deem cod as good as BOS, none of them are perfect. 

[II./JG27_Rich]

no, no problem with your english

ok thx, i'll come by. Right now i am in the Atag, and try my luck with a Spit

I got someone or 0.88 of someone then had to bail in channel

[II./JG77_Manu*]

I got someone or 0.88 of someone then had to bail in channel

what? Don't get you right now

[II./JG27_Rich]

About an hour ago. Looks like his stab is shot off. Then someone got me though and I had to jump 

 

Edited November 4, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[II./JG77_Manu*]

nice picture

Btw the hitsounds in Cliffs of Dover are aweeesome. I hope they find their way into BoS, too

[FZG_Merlin]

Oh god please no! That is the primary reason I left that game behind and now I play almost exclusively BoS. It's just too stupid, you spent all your cannon rounds (120) on a spit and it continues to fly, like nothing hapenned, except with a few holes on the wing, just utter bs.

 

The DM of BoS is good. Last night me and my friend went on escorting a lone 111, after that we went to the frontlines looking for enemy planes. The results of the night were that I bagged a yak and my friend got an IL2. But we got home severely damaged, my 190 was full of holes and my cannopy got shot and flew off and my friend had his 109 leaking fuel and coolant, but we managed to get home nevertheless.

 

That is true,

 

I lately discovered though, that using the good convergence I was able to snap their wings..

 

 

but I agree.. they are way too tough structurally speaking,

 

Now i just make a pass or two on them, and leave them as they are. I often get the kill 10minutes later.

[fjacobsen]

Though I´m not fond of the unlock system in Il-2 BOS I agree that it is the best WW2 sim around.

 

Il-2 1946 has become too old. It has served us better than good, but has retired on my system.

CLOD never really has managed to get hold on me. It looks good and works well with the Team Fusion mod, but it´s simply bewildering to use.

DCS is great, but for WW2 kind of aircraft the damage model is veri questionable. Often I can pump my entire ammunition into an enemy aircraft with no effect. I look forward to EDGE, but i´m also tired of the ever ongoing beta modules.

 

Il-2 BOS is easy to get into. The GUI is very sterile and boring, but navigating and setting up a flight is very easy. Graphics are good considering the circumstance that most of the terrain is white snow. Flight model and damage effects feels really belivable. Multiplayer alos works great (Though limited for now). The only downside is the unlock and XP system. The campaign as such is Ok, but I rather would have liked that unlocks only where used in that.

 

FinnJ

[II./JG27_Rich]

nice picture

Btw the hitsounds in Cliffs of Dover are aweeesome. I hope they find their way into BoS, too

Agree. Gun sounds too and recoil effect.

Edited November 4, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Agree. Gun sounds too and recoil effect.

yes. Just imagine the MK108 or NS37 with that recoil   

[II./JG27_Rich]

Though I´m not fond of the unlock system in Il-2 BOS I agree that it is the best WW2 sim around.

 

Il-2 1946 has become too old. It has served us better than good, but has retired on my system.

CLOD never really has managed to get hold on me. It looks good and works well with the Team Fusion mod, but it´s simply bewildering to use.

DCS is great, but for WW2 kind of aircraft the damage model is veri questionable. Often I can pump my entire ammunition into an enemy aircraft with no effect. I look forward to EDGE, but i´m also tired of the ever ongoing beta modules.

 

Il-2 BOS is easy to get into. The GUI is very sterile and boring, but navigating and setting up a flight is very easy. Graphics are good considering the circumstance that most of the terrain is white snow. Flight model and damage effects feels really belivable. Multiplayer alos works great (Though limited for now). The only downside is the unlock and XP system. The campaign as such is Ok, but I rather would have liked that unlocks only where used in that.

 

FinnJ

You do have to take time to learn a lot of things if you want to fly online in say ATAG or the Storm of War server but if you stick with it it's rewarding. It can be frustrating and drive you nuts at first though. I almost broke my hand from smashing it into the desk until I finally mastered the manual prop pitch in fights in the 109 E1 E3  

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

I were one of the unlucky ones that got CloD on first day, (or even per-order) I got the IL2 original before it hit the shelves in Sweden, played it.. and quit being a Co-Op in the irc warez channel, and shut down my FTP for good. To play it with some mates, and bought it as soon as it were available.. all of them, every single little addon!

But the coregame in BoS is so damn good, I almost demand it to be a success, and have a 10 year+ run too!

It will probably improve every 2 weeks or once a month, but when the major annoyance is gone [insert the unspeakable word here] I'll be up there in the air again with a grin on my face!

We demand it!!

[=LD=Hethwill]

Thing is time is scarce and only enough to spend on ONE sim at a time. Guys that play BoS also play TF CloD and DCS, one option does not exclude all others. There will always be a favourite though. And all of them require dedication and practice.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

until I finally mastered the manual prop pitch in fights in the 109 E1 E3

 

like me yesterday!! killed my engine twice with the E1 in a dive, because i didn't increase my propeller drag while diving

[II./JG27_Rich]

Well I say we're all very very lucky to have two such excellent sims to choose from.

[SCG_Limboski]

Good write up.  I just disagreed with a few elements and I have a few comments:

 

First, while the multiplayer action in  IL-2 1946 borders on being dead, it is still easily possible to find good action especially during European evening times.  For example, the Aces Over Europe server, frequently has 20+ people flying on a full realism server during different parts of the day.  More importantly, there are several communities in 1946 that play massively multiplayer campaign missions once or twice a week on a regular basis (e.g., SEOW).  These are campaigns that simulate a real battle of the war, like Stalingrad or the Battle of Crete, with up to around 80 or 90 people playing at one time.  There is a persistent ground and air war where different units and other strategical factors are controlled via third party software from one mission to the next, and a campaign can last up to six months or so.  Currently, there is no other flight simulator that can come close to hosting these types of historical battles and this is the very finest form of gaming in my opinion.  Just this week, in the Battle of Kursk, I was tasked with flying a Stuka to take out a suborn anittank gun bunker that was holding up the entire ground advance in one sector and I had only one bomb to take it out!  Apparently, there is a campaign in the works for Cliffs of Dover but it has not yet materialized.  (Contact me if you are interested in participating in something like this.) The huge diversity of planes and maps in 1946 will ensure that the sim still stay around for a very long time among the hardcore enthusiasts.  My biggest worry for BoS is that the developers will not open it up to allow modding which is a sure fire way to kill the game.

 

While the Cliffs of Dover looks extremely nice close up especially in the cockpit, there is a serious problem with looking into the distance.  Bodies of river get blown up terribly out of proportion--rivers start looking like bays and lakes.  This distortion makes navigation difficult and gets underneath my skin badly and makes me feel like I'm terribly near sighted when I fly.    You also need a very good rig to get decent framerates too and framerates can dive badly while flying over cities.  Overall, the game is also still quite buggy and I have seen many different people run into many different types of issues despite all of the good work from Team Fusion.  For example, I would get terrible video stutters playing multiplayer in Windows 8.0 and the only true fix was to install the game under Windows 7 or running a limiter keeping my framerate at 30.  Overall, I think the COD engine is very clunky and poorly optimized.  The BoS engine is so much better than COD engine, imo.

 

While I'm a big fan of DCS titles, I think that the DCS sim does a poor job of modelling flight/movement on the ground.  When I taxi around, It always feels like I'm skating around on ice.  Takeoff and landings seem unrealistically hard too me too as a result especially for the FW-190 Dora compared to the other sims.  The damage modelling, especially in the graphics department, is a complete joke.  Hopefully EDGE will fix this but this has been vaporware for such a long time that I'll believe it truly exists when it really comes out.  I have no faith that DCS will actual be able to produce a viable WWII simulator that can attract decent numbers.  DCS can't even seem to produce another map besides the original Black Sea one and the upcoming one will be in modern day Nevada.  (World War II in Nevada, anybody?)

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

(Contact me if you are interested in participating in something like this.)

i am 

[II./JG77_Manu*]

little update to the DCS Damage Model

it's even worse then i thought

just put eight 20mm (four minengeschoss) and six 13mm api head-on into a Mustang's engine (checked it in the mission briefing) and nothing happened. Not even a slight vapor trail. Absolutely laughable

[DD_bongodriver]

Laughable or an unaddressed bug like the many we have experienced here?

[II./JG77_Manu*]

it's not only a "bug", the complete system in DCS is total crap in this department. BoS doesn't have anything close comparable to this shortcoming 

[DD_bongodriver]

Oh it does.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Every game has it's quirks. BoS has the "hitbox DM" where X amount of ammo does Y damage resulting in the same Z effect, like a wing always cut from same place etc. How about the fuel tanks? Regarded as one = get a leak and drains the whole thing or separate entities? Engine propably has only certain damage to it's box etc. DCS and BoS have both their shortcomings, as any game has. Really does not pay off to excessively slander the other title to boost the other one prefers more. Does not make either one better or worse. Both games offer something nice to player.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

S!

 

 Every game has it's quirks. BoS has the "hitbox DM" where X amount of ammo does Y damage resulting in the same Z effect, like a wing always cut from same place etc. How about the fuel tanks? Regarded as one = get a leak and drains the whole thing or separate entities? Engine propably has only certain damage to it's box etc. DCS and BoS have both their shortcomings, as any game has. Really does not pay off to excessively slander the other title to boost the other one prefers more. Does not make either one better or worse. Both games offer something nice to player.

yeah, of course, every flight sim, not to say every game where you shoot at something has a "hitbox DM", that's the only way it works. In case of BoS the hitbox system is pretty good (not perfect of course). In DCS the whole airplane is one hitbox, like in Battlefield. When the "health" reaches zero, the aircraft starts to burn. The "health" in DCS though has an incredible amount, like a vehicle in an arcade game. Only difference that in DCS you can't see a number. That's in fact a huge (negative) difference compared to BoS, there can't really be two opinions.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I see your point These "health bars" and whatnot should be gone from any game wanting itself to be taken seriously. Or make it like WoT where you see hit points Oh boy that would melt the forums

[II./JG77_Manu*]

S!

 

 I see your point These "health bars" and whatnot should be gone from any game wanting itself to be taken seriously. Or make it like WoT where you see hit points Oh boy that would melt the forums

definitely on you in this case. But i think till we see proper physic impact modelling, it will at least be one more generation of flight sims 

And as long as the hitbox modelling seems at least plausible, i am pretty OK with it (like in BoS)

Edited November 5, 2014 by Celestiale

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Agreed. I do not expect to have "to the rivet" modelling. Simply can't be done as damage is never the same and every impact is different causing different issues. Maybe detailed in a way that aircraft skin is one, aircraft structure below it and then systems and stuff. Cliffs seems to have this to some level at least.

[andyw248]

While I'm a big fan of DCS titles, I think that the DCS sim does a poor job of modelling flight/movement on the ground.  When I taxi around, It always feels like I'm skating around on ice.  

 

Yes, taxiing is one of the strong points of BoS. I could literally taxi around for hours on end, it just feels right (yes, I do know that one of the planes still has a much debated taxi issue, but all the others are spot on).

 

Sometimes I start up x-plane, to shoot some approaches for example. However, its taxi, takeoff, and landing experience is so bad compared to BoS that I quickly give up. I guess it feels similar for folks moving around to CloD or DCS.