Reasons why i almost exclusively play BoS - unbiased WW2-sim ranking

[SOLIDKREATE]

 

5. War Thunder - Horrible. Awful. Appaling. Disastrous. Can't imagine, that you can make it more game breaking like the current state. Bombers have a DM like death stars, even withstand 100s of 20mm bullets, and almost as many 30mm bullets. Arcade gamers jump into simulator mode, to exploit this, autopiloting around the map, and getting kills after kills, doing nothing, because of that exploit. This particular point was, why i finally said goodbye to this game. Doesn't seem to get altered, because the Devs don't care about the full real category in this game

 

 

 

Exactly the reason I left. There are more B-17's on a map than fighters now. I just got sick of all of the lazy trolls. I was in a Bf-109G-10 with the Mk.103 Motorkannone + Mk.108 gun-pods (30mm for all three of these) and the standard MG151/FF 13's. I set the plane on fire 4 times....and nothing.

 

EXCELLENT WRITE UP!

[SKG51_robtek]

Great write up.

But I strongly disagree with his DM evaluation!

It is way too easy to shoot planes down in BoS, imo, of course.

[Bando]

Thanks for putting this together.

 

As a single player (not multiplayer on the internet - I have satelite connection with a huge latency) I do agree with all you said

I too have had all flightsims installed and I agree with your assesment, for BOS is the only WW2 sim I play. The only other sim I play is ROF.

 

@ Robtek: I believe the DM eval is spot on.

[SKG51_robtek]

Thanks for putting this together.

 

As a single player (not multiplayer on the internet - I have satelite connection with a huge latency) I do agree with all you said

I too have had all flightsims installed and I agree with your assesment, for BOS is the only WW2 sim I play. The only other sim I play is ROF.

 

@ Robtek: I believe the DM eval is spot on.

If you think so....

But when one is viewing the original gun cam videos, how often do you see the heavy structural damages that you have in this game?

Occasionally a 190 wing seperates when the ammo within explodes, but else?

In RL many pilots returned with shot up planes, that is almost impossible in BoS, not only because one often is hunted until flaming or disintegrating, but even a short burst will render ones plane unflyable.

That is possible sometimes, but in BoS its the regular outcome.

That is how i see it.

[unreasonable]

Have to agree with robtek here. I simply do not see how a high deflection shot from a rear gunner (which could only have got 1-2 rounds on target) can tear your wing tip off. An engine or radiator hit, or an unarmoured windscreen hit - fair enough, but a few MG rounds simply cannot do the amount of structural damage we sometimes get in this game.

[=LD=Hethwill]

Stories about shot up planes returning to base are not that common when compared with bail out stories, plus we have enough experience in MP to have seen badly shot up planes being able to RTB to safety and even to base to make the DM credible.

[unreasonable]

Yes you can rtb with fuel leaks, smoking engine and holes everywhere, no problem about that, done it myself,  but you cannot rtb with part of your wing missing (at least in a fighter) and this does seem to happen surprisingly often even when you have only been hit by MG fire. So the DM is suspect in that respect in particular, not as a general thing.

[=LD=Hethwill]

IIRC Dhyran the other day managed to limp back to base with wings shot up ( the frame was intact just holes everywhere ), can't recall if were doing VVS on the La-5 or 190's. But then he is quite good managing his flight.

I think the exceptions make the rule in this case, albeit it is a virtual environment, and if for each 78 pilots that has his bird shot and cannot limp back on can do it then I call it good DM as we cannot rule out the human factor of being good or just adequate at using the virtual plane.

 

And even fire can be put out with fuel cuts and dives and a lot or prayers. Outside temperature helps a lot as well.

Edited November 3, 2014 by =LD=Hethwill_Khan

[unreasonable]

Sorry, I really think this is irrelevant. Whether or not you can limp home with a damaged plane has no bearing on whether the damage was inflicted in a realistic manner in the first place.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Yesterday on LD Expert Server, got jumped by 3 russians, tried to get back, and was shot literally one minute...it was like "tatatata" all over the place, couldn't believe that i am still flying. while limping back to home i looked at my plane

-->

i made it back to my homebase, and made a safe emergency landing at the runway

this would then be one of those stories

 

RL many [that's nonsense] pilots returned with shot up planes, that is almost impossible in BoS, not only because one often  is hunted until flaming or disintegrating, but even a short burst will render ones plane unflyable. [well, look at the picture above]

Edited November 3, 2014 by Celestiale

[senseispcc]

I have the same feeling, the DM in BOS is too easy, not much but gunners in bomber planes or ground attack planes are aces or the DM of planes feels "strange"?!

 

 

 

For the FM of COD I am very satisfied since the latest patch, the DM is nice, the only negative point is the fact that clouds do appear near your plane and never cover the horizon?!   

 

[=LD=Hethwill]

Sorry, I really think this is irrelevant. Whether or not you can limp home with a damaged plane has no bearing on whether the damage was inflicted in a realistic manner in the first place.

 

I don't disagree. It is a way of looking at things. I have the right to trust the human factor behind the ruling mathematics and code. Obviously the game has short comings in relation to reality.

[SR-F_Winger]

Great write up.

But I strongly disagree with his DM evaluation!

It is way too easy to shoot planes down in BoS, imo, of course.

Disagree! After all its 20mm shells all fighter shoot with. Did you see the damage a 20mm HE shell does to a plane?

A wing under high G-Load is breaking off in BOS when hit by 20mm and it SHOULD break.

Engine dead after direct 20mm hit also totally plausible.

I dont see issue to rewrok here.

[SKG51_robtek]

When you look at later english guncams or the german guncams there are always 20mm or even 30mm cannons at work.

No big parts separating there, a flap, a inspection lid or even a cowling, yes, but no wings or tail sections.

Streaming liquids and vapor, sure, but big, roaring flames, seldom.

Often some internal explosions with resulting fire clouds, followed by a thin whisp of smoke.

When one is used to the damage in flight sims one starts to ask, why did the guy in the guncam movie bail out with no really visible damage.  :D

But then, everybody and his dog loves Hollywood, don't they?

[FZG_Merlin]

right now, I have been playing clod for a couple of weeks, and i play it more than BOS.

 

Why ?

 

because the gameplay is at the moment more interesting in the ATAG server. various mission types, more people, different maps etc...

 

Im sure BOS will catch up and overtake Clod soon or later, but not right now.

 

Clod, its where its at for multiplayer these days. Also. its more challenging than BOS if you are flying german.

[Sokol1]

DM  - the engine of first IL-2 absorb all UBT .51 ammo, the second catch fire with short burst. What the diference?

 

[II./JG27_Rich]

Oh my gosh...Horrible????

 

[FZG_Merlin]

yup, really horrible ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

screens from Markie:

Edited November 3, 2014 by FZG_Immel

[SYN_Per]

Each to his own. I prefer BoS.

[II./JG27_Rich]

You can also load blank skins like this custom and put your insignia II./27 and number on.....And German pilots don't look grumpy in Cliffs of Dover...

 

Edited November 3, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[Pringliano]

Yesterday on LD Expert Server, got jumped by 3 russians, tried to get back, and was shot literally one minute...it was like "tatatata" all over the place, couldn't believe that i am still flying. while limping back to home i looked at my plane

-->

i made it back to my homebase, and made a safe emergency landing at the runway

this would then be one of those stories

 

 

Celestiale, in this situation, has the horizontal stabilator been completely detached from the aircraft? I can see that the left side has, ut I just hope the right one is still there, otherwise we have a serious bug in the FDM :-/

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Celestiale, in this situation, has the horizontal stabilator been completely detached from the aircraft? I can see that the left side has, ut I just hope the right one is still there, otherwise we have a serious bug in the FDM :-/

 

yep the right one was still there. But on the other side i had even more holes in the fuselage 

and btw, it was really really hard to keep the plane steady. Constant 90-100% aileron and 60-100% rudder, all until the landing

Edited November 3, 2014 by Celestiale

[Pringliano]

Ok, Uffff thax for letting me know... I was becoming worried, right today that I have, again, told about the superior flight dynamics in this sim :-)

 

Makes sense, and might be possible IRL, I believe...

 

Thx Celestiale!

[II./JG77_Manu*]

When you look at later english guncams or the german guncams there are always 20mm or even 30mm cannons at work.

No big parts separating there, a flap, a inspection lid or even a cowling, yes, but no wings or tail sections.

 not personal mate, but what a nonsense..

-->

 

 

everybody and his dog loves Hollywood,

those pics show exactly, that's not "hollywood", but real history, how it looks when a plane starts to burn

[ImPeRaToR]

Very nice write-up. not only is the balance between bombers and fighters terible in WT, there is a definite "leveling" of aircraft sturdiness simply based on their position in the tech tree - the same fuselage and wings on an early model of a plane suddenly take a lot more punishment before they break on a late-model aircraft for no reason whatsoever. Also, have a look at the WT DM in their SDK, with so few parts to break off the DM is pretty much on the same level of il2 which came out in 2001.

Also, have a look at all the Russian plane textures with wooden wing and fuselages, they all have paint scratched off their surfaces revealing natural metal underneath the paint, even though it's not actually metal. Stark contrast to the Russian planes, both textures and 3D models are masterpieces imo, and not just aesthetically but especially research-wise! 

Edited November 3, 2014 by ImPeRaToR

[=LD=Hethwill]

The first ones of the B-17 are well known and testified as being but cut like a sheet of paper by ground flak . There is even the sequence where one of them crashes into the one below and behind in the box. Plus there is a very similar sequence featuring a Liberator.

 

Still a hail of 20 and 30mm will make a mess as well to those big birds and the ones that RTB are the exception.

Edited November 3, 2014 by =LD=Hethwill_Khan

[Sokol1]

Ah, FLAK an these "flamming torch" Japanese planes. 

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

The first ones of the B-17 are well known and testified as being but cut like a sheet of paper by ground flak

 

no the big first one was shot down by a 262 (with 30mm you know), i have that exact same picture in my book + explanations and stuff

[Sokol1]

BTW - The old "B-17's being hit by German heavy fighters (20/30mm) clip. That things are sturdy.

 

 

But despite dont like I can agree that all these visual "Hollywood" damage please the "WT generation".

[II./JG77_Manu*]

BTW - The old "B-17's being hit by German heavy fighters (20/30mm) clip. That things are sturdy.

 

 

But despite dont like I can agree that all these visual "Hollywood" damage please the "WT generation".

you know that most of those shots have been 7,9mm/13mm shots, do you. 1-5 30mm, depends where you hit, killed a B17 off entirely

[t4trouble]

 

 

you know that most of those shots have been 7,9mm/13mm shots, do you. 1-5 30mm, depends where you hit, killed a B17 off entirely

 

 

Do you really believe, the guys going in on headon passes and bouncing the bombers were not full guns's, come on ?

 

And the ME262 had 4 30mm guns ?

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

You can also load blank skins like this custom and put your insignia II./27 and number on.....And German pilots don't look grumpy in Cliffs of Dover...

 

"I'm bored."

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

Do you really believe, the guys going in on headon passes and bouncing the bombers were not full guns's, come on ?

 

And the ME262 had 4 30mm guns ?

 

did you even watch the video?? apparently not, because you are talking about a whole different subject

[t4trouble]

 

 

did you even watch the video?? apparently not, because you are talking about a whole different subject

 

 

 

I'll quote you again and tell me what you talking about here ?

 

 

 

you know that most of those shots have been 7,9mm/13mm shots, do you. 1-5 30mm, depends where you hit, killed a B17 off entirely

 

I don't know what video you're watching but i saw plenty of cannon round hits on B17, B24, La5,P51 

[LBR=H_Ostermann]

30mm x 20mm german test:

 

 

 

 

If some one want to see some pictures of damaged planes look here: http://imgur.com/a/SdA61

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

 

I'll quote you again and tell me what you talking about here ?

 

 

 

 

I don't know what video you're watching but i saw plenty of cannon round hits on B17, B24, La5,P51 

 

yeah sure, the quality of those guncams is so good, that you "saw" that they have been cannon rounds. No way that they have been just Mg        stop trolling around

[SKG51_robtek]

yeah sure, the quality of those guncams is so good, that you "saw" that they have been cannon rounds. No way that they have been just Mg        stop trolling around

I believe you start to become ridiculous, of course when there are explosions at the point of impact there were cannon rounds, not machine gun.

And the Minengeschoß didn't have a large penetrating power, most of the effect was against the skin, weakening it.

[t4trouble]

 

 

yeah sure, the quality of those guncams is so good, that you "saw" that they have been cannon rounds. No way that they have been just Mg        stop trolling around

 

If that is the case, how can can you tell its just mg fire ?

 

I'm just pointing out, why would you not use your full armament ? trying to bring down big bombers or fighters ?

 

Plus you can see the big caliber hitting the planes.

 

Now i'm a troll ?

[II./JG77_Manu*]

I believe you start to become ridiculous, of course when there are explosions at the point of impact there were cannon rounds, not machine gun.

And the Minengeschoß didn't have a large penetrating power, most of the effect was against the skin, weakening it.

 

If that is the case, how can can you tell its just mg fire ?

 

I'm just pointing out, why would you not use your full armament ? trying to bring down big bombers or fighters ?

 

Plus you can see the big caliber hitting the planes.

 

Now i'm a troll ?

 

i never said, that they did shoot with Mg only..Maybe proper reading of my statements would be better, before screaming around stuff, which has never been said.

What i know is that they mostly shoot with Mg. Just because you can only use your 30mm cannon for 6 secs, and your 20mm cannon (109) for 16 secs. And now watch, how long the guncam videos are....

they are definitely not a good presentation of how effective cannon rounds where, just because you don't know, by how many cannon rounds the enemy plane got hit.

The pictures from Ostermann are way more representative

 

Edit:

T4trouble, i don't call you a troll, mate. I said you should stop trolling, because i got the very feeling, that that's exactly what you are doing. From your first post onwards, where you wrote about "head on pass, Me262" you didn't even refer to the subject, that is discussed, you just threw in something else, which had nothing to do with it. It seemed like you didn't read, what we were talking about, and you tried just to throw some "populist statements" into the discussion

Edited November 3, 2014 by Celestiale

[Descolada]

I believe you start to become ridiculous, of course when there are explosions at the point of impact there were cannon rounds, not machine gun.

And the Minengeschoß didn't have a large penetrating power, most of the effect was against the skin, weakening it.

iirc the germans had some HE rounds for their 13mm machine guns much like the italians did