No601_Swallow Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Yep that's a perfect description. It must be a bug. It's got to the stage that I use hit sounds as confirmation that I've hit my target, not that anything's hit me. I feel a bit of a cheat! But yes, hit sounds being triggered by me hitting my enemy is - if not a bug, then a big distortion of reality. It's almost the only bit of BoS that annoys me.
Jupp Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 ~S~ Chris455, Thanks for introducing this to the discussion of sounds. We did the same procedure in Cliffs of Dover of setting it 100% in game, and X% (volume) in Windows. Some one had brought it up, that the sound level in the game settings not only controlled the volume, but Also, the range of various sounds that could be heard. Theoretically, this would be analogous to Density settings showing different levels of visual objects in sims like FSX for example. I will try this out in BoS today. Here's a screenshot from June 18, 2013 showing the adjusting of Cliffs of Dover's sound output to Windows method you suggest for BoS. So you're not off base!
II./JG77_Manu* Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Yep that's a perfect description. It must be a bug. I think it's no bug, it's rather a limitation from the current engine. Like i have understood so far, every sound ingame "produces" a sound bubble. Within this bubble you hear the sound, outside of it, you can't hear it. When you are flying fast, and have a ~180 ping (like me on the TWB eagle nest), at the time the hits are perceived at the receiving end (after ~0,3 sec), you are already out of the sound bubble, and can't hear it. When you shoot other planes, you are getting exactly into this sound bubble, and so you hear them louder then you should IRL. This is no fact, it's just an assumption from me, which would perfectly explain why you can hear them in single player, but not in multiplayer, getting worse with worse ping. Another flaw of this engine is obviously, that the planes aka every material don't carry sound in this game, which would dissolve above's problem. I guess this sound engine is from an egoshooter, where the faulty sound physics are no problem because they are not perceptible. In RoF with the slow paced planes, this shouldn't be a big problem as well. But in BoS it isa big problem, from early alpha till right now. I really hope that they change the sound engine at a time, because right now it's a little bit of an immersion killer - just compare it to Clod, in this game it's a true pleasure to be shot at (soundwise)
6./ZG26_Emil Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 RE "compare it to clod" If I remember correctly 1C/MG had to get help from 777 because the sounds were terrible at first release. As long as the devs know about it and are looking in to it I can be patient as it's not a deal breaker for me.
[TWB]80hd Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 I think it's no bug, it's rather a limitation from the current engine. Like i have understood so far, every sound ingame "produces" a sound bubble. Within this bubble you hear the sound, outside of it, you can't hear it. When you are flying fast, and have a ~180 ping (like me on the TWB eagle nest), at the time the hits are perceived at the receiving end (after ~0,3 sec), you are already out of the sound bubble, and can't hear it. When you shoot other planes, you are getting exactly into this sound bubble, and so you hear them louder then you should IRL. This is no fact, it's just an assumption from me, which would perfectly explain why you can hear them in single player, but not in multiplayer, getting worse with worse ping. Another flaw of this engine is obviously, that the planes aka every material don't carry sound in this game, which would dissolve above's problem. I guess this sound engine is from an egoshooter, where the faulty sound physics are no problem because they are not perceptible. In RoF with the slow paced planes, this shouldn't be a big problem as well. But in BoS it isa big problem, from early alpha till right now. I really hope that they change the sound engine at a time, because right now it's a little bit of an immersion killer - just compare it to Clod, in this game it's a true pleasure to be shot at (soundwise) I have ~10ms to The Eagle's Nest, and I am experiencing the same issues... although it could easily be to a lesser degree than you are experiencing, near-instant response isn't seeming to make a big difference. For example, the glass of my canopy, to the immediate right of my virtual pilots right ear, gets hit by a round... it blows a hole in the canopy, and the only way I even knew I was hit was that I thought to myself "Is it me, or did the wind noise in here just get slightly louder?" I glance left, then right, and sure enough... there's a hole...
II./JG77_Manu* Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 I have ~10ms to The Eagle's Nest, and I am experiencing the same issues... although it could easily be to a lesser degree than you are experiencing, near-instant response isn't seeming to make a big difference. For example, the glass of my canopy, to the immediate right of my virtual pilots right ear, gets hit by a round... it blows a hole in the canopy, and the only way I even knew I was hit was that I thought to myself "Is it me, or did the wind noise in here just get slightly louder?" I glance left, then right, and sure enough... there's a hole... Ok Thanks for clearing that..mhh. Still think it has something to do with this sound bubble...another explanation would be, that sound velocity in game is slower then it should be, and you begin to outpace the Sound at a certain speed. Don't knoW. Anyway, after finally fixing the 190, this is the biggest issue i have left in this game. I have faith the Devs adress it, what i have seen so far. If it's after me, it can't be soon enough! 1
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 -snip- If I remember correctly 1C/MG had to get help from 777 because the sounds were terrible at first release. -snip- Uhhh... No..?
Sokol1 Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) RE "compare it to clod" This game sound engine has similar "buble" problems - hear the hits in enemy plane and the "Batfink Supersonic Sonar Radar": hear the engine of enemy planes at six with canopy open, as in il-246 - both was minimized by TF folks making the wind sound loud, almost unbearable with canopy open (poor G-50 pilots ). If I remember correctly 1C/MG had to get help from 777 because the sounds were terrible at first release. Yes, the RoF (or formerly) sound engineer work in that game sound. Edited March 23, 2015 by Sokol1
[TWB]80hd Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Ok Thanks for clearing that..mhh. Still think it has something to do with this sound bubble...another explanation would be, that sound velocity in game is slower then it should be, and you begin to outpace the Sound at a certain speed. Don't knoW. Anyway, after finally fixing the 190, this is the biggest issue i have left in this game. I have faith the Devs adress it, what i have seen so far. If it's after me, it can't be soon enough! Yeah, I agree with your assessment. As long as the devs know about it and are looking in to it I can be patient as it's not a deal breaker for me. My sentiments exactly.
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Uhhh yes No. They did not "get help" from 777 - 777 currently employs somebody who was involved in the Cliffs project... Not totally surprising since Cliffs is no longer in official development and people need a job to pay bills and buy food... Nonetheless, I can't possibly see how it is at all relevant... They don't use the same sound engine and poor sound quality is different than a poor sound engine so the point is moot. In the eternal words of AoA... Hope that helps! S! Edited March 23, 2015 by 4./JG26_Adler
6./ZG26_Emil Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 No. They did not "get help" from 777 - 777 currently employs somebody who was involved in the Cliffs project... Not totally surprising since Cliffs is no longer in official development and people need a job to pay bills and buy food... Nonetheless, I can't possibly see how it is at all relevant... They don't use the same sound engine and poor sound quality is different than a poor sound engine so the point is moot. In the eternal words of AoA... Hope that helps! S! Did I say they used the same engine? Luthier said they brought in outside help (from someone who worked or had worked for 777) for the sound engine in 2011 because at the time the sounds were almost as bad as IL2 1946. You would need to read back through all the 1C forum to find this. They then released that Beta in August 2011. Also Radar sound was in CLOD for well over 2 years if not 3 until mostly fixed by Team Fusion, People seem to have impressive rose tinted spectacles when comparing sims. They've all had problems, this one is no exception. 1
1CGS LukeFF Posted March 23, 2015 1CGS Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) No. They did not "get help" from 777 - 777 currently employs somebody who was involved in the Cliffs project... Not totally surprising since Cliffs is no longer in official development and people need a job to pay bills and buy food... Umm....no. Jason even publicly confirmed he loaned out his audio engineer to help with CloD's audio problems - and this was back when RoF was solely a 777 venture. Edited March 23, 2015 by LukeFF
Vaxxtx Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Umm....no. Jason even publicly confirmed he loaned out his audio engineer to help with CloD's audio problems - and this was back when RoF was solely a 777 venture. Well where is that guy now? Because sounds in BoS are borked.....still. 1
ShamrockOneFive Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 I think we need to make the distinction that its the sound physics that are a bit problematic... as far as sound quality (the effects themselves) I don't think there is a better sim. When just sitting on the runway with the engine off... an airplane is flying around in the distance it sounds almost real which is impressive. I love the 109 flypast sound with the supercharger whine... and even the distinctive sound differences between the 109F-4 and G-2 is impressive. What seems to be weird is the hit effects both of enemy planes and friendly ones. I too have noted that when shooting enemy planes I can hear the hits which seems odd for sure. Clearly the dev team is tweaking the engine to try and remedy the problem but its not there yet (sometimes these things get worse before they get better). Maybe a dev can jump in and let us know how we might be able to provide some tests to them on our own rigs that might help them.
1CGS LukeFF Posted March 24, 2015 1CGS Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Well where is that guy now? Because sounds in BoS are borked.....still. Probably working now as part of 1CGS. What's your point? It's not always the person coding things that's the problem. Edited March 24, 2015 by LukeFF
6./ZG26_Emil Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Well where is that guy now? Because sounds in BoS are borked.....still. That's a bit extreme. I'd hardly say this is unflyable unlike the sound radar we had in CLOD for ages. It's just an annoyance that needs fixing.
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 That's a bit extreme. -snip- I'd say it isn't. Situational awareness is a huge part of a CFS.
BraveSirRobin Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 I'd say it isn't. Situational awareness is a huge part of a CFS. Very true. Checking your 6 occasionally is probably better for SA than waiting for the sound of enemy fire hitting your aircraft.
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Very true. Checking your 6 occasionally is probably better for SA than waiting for the sound of enemy fire hitting your aircraft. You can pretend your flying and your technique is perfect all you want - it doesn't bother me any... But we both know it isn't... And we both know that you are intentionally missing the point... No surprise there when the discourse is coming from you... You are not going to catch every bandit on your six... But hit sounds would do a whole lot for disengaging and successfully breaking before you're fried... I know they have saved my neck many times in The Sim That Shall Not Be Named. Edited March 24, 2015 by 4./JG26_Adler 1
BraveSirRobin Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 I've heard hit sounds in MP in BoS, even after the last update.
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 I've heard hit sounds in MP in BoS, even after the last update. And I think that it is more than apparent that many of us have not... Some of us haven't heard them ever in SP or MP... What's your point..? I will say that the 128bit fix worked for me for a short time but the sounds were still very intermittent - it even came back to the point that I heard nothing at all with the fix enabled. I have tried all of the suggestions I have ever read here - I disabled my 5.1, I messed with the EQ, I tweaked this, I tweaked that, I turned up this volume, I installed this audio driver, I reverted to that audio driver... And after all of that I still hear nothing at all. 2
BraveSirRobin Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 What's your point..? Just pointing out that it's not a universal problem. There must be something about the sound settings on your machine.
II./JG77_Manu* Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Just pointing out that it's not a universal problem. There must be something about the sound settings on your machine. On most machines so? While never having any problems with any other game ever? Don't you think that it's more of a Problem of the Code?! Anyway, "you can hear them", good for you. Maybe a small proportion of the Hits, like me after 1.009. But still not realistic..i have seen cracking my cockpit glass so often, but I neaver heared a crack ever..Just look into DCS, if you get hit in your cockpit there, it really sounds like (panzer)glas breaking 1
=LD=Penshoon Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 What seems to be weird is the hit effects both of enemy planes and friendly ones. I too have noted that when shooting enemy planes I can hear the hits which seems odd for sure. Clearly the dev team is tweaking the engine to try and remedy the problem but its not there yet (sometimes these things get worse before they get better). Maybe a dev can jump in and let us know how we might be able to provide some tests to them on our own rigs that might help them. I thought the hit sounds you hear while shooting other planes was from debris hitting your plane? Do you mean you can hear hit sounds on your plane when a wingman is shooting up somebody else?
6./ZG26_Emil Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 I thought the hit sounds you hear while shooting other planes was from debris hitting your plane? Do you mean you can hear hit sounds on your plane when a wingman is shooting up somebody else? Not for me. The loudest sound I hear is when my 20mm hit another aircraft close. I do hear bullets hit me (not always) but they're much quieter than my rounds hitting another aircraft.
Zettman Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 S! Not working for me. It is a bit sad, since me buttkicker gamer 2 arrived a week ago and I still can't hear/feel impacts on my plane. Zettman
II./JG77_Manu* Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 you /= most Course, you know that,Mr. Google
BraveSirRobin Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Course, you know that,Mr. Google Most of the people who own this game don't even post on the forum, so you have no idea whether most people have this issue. Hell, it's not even clear that most people who post on the forum have anything close to the hit sound issues that you're claiming to have.
II./JG77_Manu* Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Most of the people who own this game don't even post on the forum, so you have no idea whether most people have this issue. Hell, it's not even clear that most people who post on the forum have anything close to the hit sound issues that you're claiming to have. Like said before, apart from the fact that i can't hear any hitsounds after 1.10 (and don't know how many other people have the same issue), the sound engine is borked in general (for everyone). There are 100 examples, what is wrong with it. Being able to hear hits on your own plane (like you are claiming) doesn't change that.
=LD=Penshoon Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Like said before, apart from the fact that i can't hear any hitsounds after 1.10 (and don't know how many other people have the same issue), the sound engine is borked in general (for everyone). There are 100 examples, what is wrong with it. Being able to hear hits on your own plane (like you are claiming) doesn't change that. From reading the thread it seems many people having trouble are sitting on a surround setup but the BOS mix is only stereophonic. From testing a while ago I came to the conclusion that trying to force the game to output more than 2 channels seems to screw up the sound channels depending on where my virtual head is pointed ingame. BOS uses FMOD right? Do you have the same problem in any other FMOD games? Edited March 24, 2015 by =LD=Penshoon
SYN_Mike77 Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Two observations: 1. I am not a coder or even anything close but i would have to imagine that absolute hardest thing to fix in a computer game would be intermitant problems that appear on some rigs but not on others. Think of vast number of variables that would come into play! 2. Compared to RoF I think this would be more of a problem in BoS. Hit sounds aren't that important in RoF. what is the sound a bullet makes punching through cloth?
BraveSirRobin Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 the sound engine is borked in general (for everyone). It's not "borked" for me. So this claim is demonstrably untrue. I get it. You're having problems with the sound. But exaggerating (EVERYONE!!!!!) those problems serves no useful purpose.
II./JG77_Manu* Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 From reading the thread it seems many people having trouble are sitting on a surround setup but the BOS mix is only stereophonic. From testing a while ago I came to the conclusion that trying to force the game to output more channels than 2 seems to screw up the sound channels depending on where my virtual head is pointed ingame. BOS uses FMOD right? Do you have the same problem in any other FMOD games? I am using stereo headphones (expensive ones) so that's definitely not the cause of error for me. FMOD? Is the sound engine called so? Don't know about FMOD games, to be honest, sry. It's not "borked" for me. So this claim is demonstrably untrue. I get it. You're having problems with the sound. But exaggerating (EVERYONE!!!!!) those problems serves no useful purpose. So you are not hearing your hits on other planes? You are hearing different sounds for rifle or cannon ammunition on your plane? You are hearing different sounds depending where the enemy hits you (cockpit glas, engine in front of you, tail, wings)? You hear different sounds flying wooden or metal planes? You are hearing 88s explosion behind your plane? You are hearing ~10-20 hits per second on your plane (Because that's what hits you when you have an enemy on your dead six shooting at you)? If you are, you are probably playing another game. I have watched plenty of BoS videos, but never saw only one of the points above happening. So i find it hard to believe, that it's not borked for you. But please, make a video, i would love to see how it could be with a proper working sound engine
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Just pointing out that it's not a universal problem. There must be something about the sound settings on your machine. No. I would invite you to reread my post - I've tried default settings, I've tried custom EQs, different drivers, disabling all but my stereo channels, I've tried with surround virtualization, I've worked with the game's .ini file, I've tried setting different volumes, ETC. I have done everything within my power and "must be your sound settings" is a poor excuse for a faulty sound engine that has never worked right REGARDLESS of what you claim to be hearing. I am glad the sounds work for you, BSR. For many of us they work intermittently IF AT ALL. If you feel the need to invalidate a problem THAT IS occurring for many of us (and in some cases always had been...) than maybe this isn't the thread for you. You have said your bit - good for you. Nobody here is asking for your consultation or suggestions when we have tried them all before.
BraveSirRobin Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 So you are not hearing your hits on other planes? You are hearing different sounds for rifle or cannon ammunition on your plane? You are hearing different sounds depending where the enemy hits you (cockpit glas, engine in front of you, tail, wings)? You hear different sounds flying wooden or metal planes? You are hearing 88s explosion behind your plane? You are hearing ~10-20 hits per second on your plane (Because that's what hits you when you have an enemy on your dead six shooting at you)? If you are, you are probably playing another game. I have watched plenty of BoS videos, but never saw only one of the points above happening. So i find it hard to believe, that it's not borked for you. But please, make a video, i would love to see how it could be with a proper working sound engine No, I'm probably not hearing every single possible sound that the game could, or should, generate. But if you don't know that someone is shooting at you when the cockpit glass breaks and you can hear the sound of wind, then there is a much bigger problem between your ears, and it has nothing to do with game sounds.
=LD=Penshoon Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 I am using stereo headphones (expensive ones) so that's definitely not the cause of error for me. And they are also setup as 2.0 in windows? Can you right click the speaker icon next to the clock in Windows & select playback devices, mark the device you use and press configure and make sure it says stereo in speaker configuration? I can replicate the exact issue you & many here are having by selecting 5.1 or 7.1 instead or stereo, It might just be my system though. I hope my posts didn't come across sounding condescending, hope all issues can be fixed
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 And they are also setup as 2.0 in windows? Can you right click the speaker icon next to the clock in Windows & select playback devices, mark the device you use and press configure and make sure it says stereo in speaker configuration? I can replicate the exact issue you & many here are having by selecting 5.1 or 7.1 instead or stereo, It might just be my system though. I hope my posts didn't come across sounding condescending, hope all issues can be fixed In my case, yes. I have checked in to this after disabling 3.1 channels.
PA-Sniv Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 I am using stereo headphones (expensive ones) so that's definitely not the cause of error for me. The problem might be more from the sound processing (soundcard) than from your headphones. I have both a cheap Creative USB headset and a M-Audio 24/96 PCI card with quite good headphones. I can hear hitsounds with both soundcards. Cheers,
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