Bug: flying with gear down

[NN_TaehtDewoht]

hello, I'm flying on Il2 and ROF since many years (and son little bit on Cliffs Of Dover) 

 

sorry for my english.

 

On server, I see often players who flying with gear down!.

 

the raison is the fact that flying with gear down have no heavy consequence (only a limitation of spped) : no turbulence, no  handicap. Than, it's really easy to forget gear and flying with gear down

 

 

Bug?  

 

Sure... 

we can diving at speed maximum ... with gear down...  The rudders and ailerons broke ... but not the gear.

 (I make test: Pe2 losses ailerons and rudder at 720 k/h... but not the gear...  Anymay, the possibilitie to dive at 700 k/h with gear down is totally impossible)  

 

 

Other bug: during hard diving we feel not any turbulence or difficultie to move de stick (to stop diving and back up).

 

 

At my point of view,  these bugs are very important bugs. There are not admissible on this so potentialy simulator...

 

This simulator have many, many qualities (Fly model, historical characteristics, aesthetic aspect, absolutly playable in high settings with "normal PC").

 

With some corrections this simulator 'll be a must !!! 

 

  

[IckyATLAS]

I confirm the post of TaehtDewoht. I made already this comment on an Early access Forum post.

I tested very high speed dives in eccess of 800 km/hr and you can easily lower the landing gear. It will slow you a little down but thats all. You can lower and retract. At those speed it would deform  and be blocked or teared away. You get other parts flying away but the landing gear is not impacted at all.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Adolf Galland flew at top speed from England back to France, trying to put distance between him and a Spit.  When he got back to the airfield, he found out his gear was down the entire time.  He landed no problem nor gear damage.

[NN_TaehtDewoht]

I suppose that the fair play british  pilot has his gear down too

 

Some real pilot will answer at this question:

- is it possible to fly gear down very fat and and make heavy manouevres and not feel turbulences?

 

I can't answer (I never pilot real plane in real live)

[Pollux]

interesting topic !

[216th_Peterla]

Remember that a landing gear is not a flight control surface. The landing gear is one of the most robust part of an aircraft and I don't think it will be easily damaged due to aerodynamic forces.

Working on the aircraft sector I remember an AW109E that crash and the most identifiable part of the whole mess was the landing gear. Anyways I can not grant any official documentation about what I just said.

Hope that helps.

[39bn_pavig]

Gear down produces drag, and also causes a nose-down aspect which you may need to trim out.

[Crump]

Some real pilot will answer at this question: - is it possible to fly gear down very fat and and make heavy manouevres and not feel turbulences?

 

No.

 

All complex airplanes have a maximum gear extension speed (Vle) and a maximum gear operation speed (Vlo).  Vle is the maximum speed the aircraft can be flown with the gear extended.  Vlo is the maximum speed the gear may be in transition (going up or down).

 

You have to refer to the individual aircraft for the specific speeds.  Some airplanes have two Vlo....one for extension and one for retraction.

 

The effect of landing gear up or down is to add drag.  When drag goes up so does lift production.  When lift production goes up at a constant velocity, our angle of attack must increase as all three are connected by a fixed by the design relationship.  

 

In short, extending the gear requires more power and more angle of attack to maintain the same condition of flight.  That is why gear is extended only when the airplane is about to land or in certain emergency situations.  For example, a loss of control in an over speed condition in a Learjet you extend the landing gear as a last resort measure to slow the airplane down.  The airplane is going to destroy itself anyway if that condition is not corrected.  Damaging the gear is much better than dying and the drag will slow the airplane down.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Crump

[NN_TaehtDewoht]

Thanks for replies

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

Gear down produces drag, and also causes a nose-down aspect which you may need to trim out.

Which is favorable, because the planes in BoS are too tailheavy...

[avlSteve]

At the risk of being wrong, I believe the speed brake on the Corsair was the gear.

[Crump]

 

 

At the risk of being wrong, I believe the speed brake on the Corsair was the gear.

 

No you are correct.  It was designed that way.  

 

That does not mean most airplanes are designed to use the gear as speed brake.  A requirement for a naval fighter is strong landing gear when compared to their land based cousins.  Since you have to overbuild the landing gear anyway, why add additional weight and complexity for a separate speed brake system?  Seems like Chance Vought made a good design decision for a naval fighter.

[SeriousFox]

 

I posted similar thread before,

 

there's no high speed damage modeled for landing gear or flaps. For me it's a basic DM for a flightsim... don't know why it's not implemented yet.. 

Edited October 28, 2014 by SeriousFox

[Crump]

there's no high speed damage modeled for landing gear or flaps.

 

Vle is generally defined by the stability and control.  The most common limiting characteristic that defines Vle is the gear doors.  When they get damaged, there is risk the door will produce a moment the control surfaces cannot overcome!

Edited October 28, 2014 by Crump

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 One reason why the F/A-18C's at work do retract their gear as soon as possible on take-off, not to exceed limits. They are extra careful when using full AB take-offs as the speed increases rapidly thus window of retracting landing gear is narrower. Believe me the checks needed after such an event are not just "wipe clean and return to service"

[NN_TaehtDewoht]

At my point of view:

For this moment, the only mpact which is simulated when gear is down is the speed limitation ...  and only this point.

I make one test : climbing very hard, once time gear up... and the second time and gear down  (with Pe 2 from 5000m to 5800, 6000 m )...  For me, the gear down cause any consequence,

 

But, it must be test one more time... My system of Measurement is perhaps no fine enough...

[Potenz]

the operation manual of the G2 says that gear should be retracted at 250kmh and should be deployed at 350km/h

 

i think are the common values for all the 109's

Edited October 29, 2014 by GOAPotenz

[303_Kwiatek]

Actually BOS dont simulate gear and flaps damages.  For ROF it wasn't needed.

 

Maby devs will make it later if so.

[Solmyr]

I have no opinion yet as I didn't test these things a lot but plenty of vet pilots were used to brake their speed in combat with gear down, no ? Also, the Galland's anecdote is making think...

[Crump]

the operation manual of the G2 says that gear should be retracted at 250kmh and should be deployed at 350km/h

 

i think are the common values for all the 109's

  

There you have it in black and white for the Bf-109's gear operating speeds:

 

Vlo Retraction  - 250kph IAS

Vlo Extension - 350kph IAS

 

Vle is 350 kph IAS

 

Thanks GOAPotenz!!

[busdriver]

S!

 

 One reason why the F/A-18C's at work do retract their gear as soon as possible on take-off, not to exceed limits. They are extra careful when using full AB take-offs as the speed increases rapidly thus window of retracting landing gear is narrower. Believe me the checks needed after such an event are not just "wipe clean and return to service"

An Idaho ANG RF-4 had a bird come through the windscreen whilst at 480 KIAS (approx. 890 km/h). When the bird (or carcass of the bird) ricocheted off the pilot it hit the gear handle. The landing gear extended, ALL the gear doors stayed on, the WSO made his first landing that night (later got selected for pilot training). 

 

I had a squadron mate that forgot to raise his gear on takeoff (into the weather, 20 seconds spacing for his #2). The pair stayed in 8 NM trail as they flew a simulated nuke strike at 480 KIAS. When Lead finished the low level, he made a fuel check with #2. Lead's gas was a lot lower than #2, so he instructed #2 to rejoin at 300 KIAS to check him for a fuel leak. #2 joined up, announced there was no fuel leak, but asked if there was a reason Lead had his gear down. There is a reason F-16 guys say flying that airplane is like a magic carpet ride  .

[Crump]

Sounds like some lucky guys creating work for the mechanics.......

[Sokol1]

What eventually can be damaged by extend the LG at high speed is the LG hydraulic system, and this not modeled... So no reason for damage. 

[Crump]

What eventually can be damaged by extend the LG at high speed is the LG hydraulic system, and this not modeled... So no reason for damage. 

 

Maybe but throwing the gear out in an uncontrolled overspeed is a very common recommended technique.

 

The most common limiting factor is the gear doors.

 

 

Maximum Landing gear Operating speed — Maximum speed at which the landing gear can be safely extended or retracted. Usually limited by air loads on the wheel-well doors. On some aircraft the doors close after extension, allowing acceleration to VLE — Max gear extended speed. In an EMERGENCY — when the ground is getting close and the airspeed is approaching redline — FORGET ABOUT THIS SPEED, THROW THE GEAR OUT!

 

 

Maximum Landing gear Extended speed — Maximum speed at which an airplane can be safely flown with the landing gear extended. In an EMERGENCY, FORGET ABOUT THIS SPEED, THROW THE GEAR OUT!

 

http://aviation-press.com/documents/chapter4.pdf

[Potenz]

does the devs said something about when it's going to be fixed???

[150GCT_Veltro]

 

In Russian forum is said that there is no damage to the landing gear because which can eventually be damaged at high speed is his hydraulic system and this is not modeled in game.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/13410-two-urgent-fixs-needed-bos-physic/?do=findComment&comment=210766

 

Some documents.

 

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a278248.pdf

 

http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1933/naca-tn-456.pdf

 

Hydraulic system is not implemented in BoS, so landing gear damage will not happen.

 

Would be nice have some shake effect....at least....somenthing.

[GunnyHighway]

That subject about "Landing gear" is interesting , I noticed that in campaign mode, when I shoot down a Me-109 and its engine stall. The 109 fully extend its flaps, lower its gear and try to land gliding even from heights of 1,000 meters (3,000 feet) and up.

 

Since the good old chivalrous time of the beginning of WWI are long gone, I am wondering why this demand of clemency.