Discussion about DCS:WW2 goes here.

[heinkill]

I preordered BoS, and I chipped in for kickstarter on this project too. But it won't be a near term competitor for BoS in my book. I hope to be flying BoS beta this year. I don't expect to be flying DCS WWII until maybe 2015, if we're lucky. Fine by me, I'd rather a team took the time to do things right, than rush to market with an inferior product. (Of course, taking forever to get to market with an inferior product, that's not ideal either!)

[browndog]

I'm new to kick starter so if someone knows otherwise please chime in but I read in their FAQs that they do not charge your credit card unless the project meets its funding goals. Of course this doesn't eliminate the risk of them not finishing the project if they meet their funding goals. But it at least gives them a fighting chance. They already have the engine so it's really just content they need to create and that seems lower risk to me.

 

Sorry if this is a dupe, my battery is getting low so I don't have time to read thru the whole thread.

 

 

 

My take as well... and all things considered I'd need to see a lot more details.

 

 

 

That is the thing that gives me concern. It seems to me that with the kickstarter bit it is almost like gambling because there is no guarantee that you will get a final product. At least with BoS the likelihood of getting what I am paying for is extremely high... In the case of this product we don't even know where they are. I will wait to find out more before I even consider committing any dollars.

[Jochen]

Kickstarter, update from Ilya:

Hey folks,

We're very close to the decision on moving the B-17 up in the stretch goals. It's 99% a yes. Just need to crunch the numbers around a little bit. Going to update within 24 hours.

Also going to add some new rewards in the same edit with the ability to give keys to friends, wallpapers, and alpha access.

 

 

A flyable B-17 moving closer in the stretch goals. Of course first need to get the base goal, but still good to see the interaction with what backers want.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Jochen

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Over 5k pledged today, its looking pretty good. If they move the B17 up that might make a bit of a difference!

[Sim]

A flyable B-17 at DCS level on a 100x160km normandy map... right.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Sim

[gavagai]

Not sure why there is so much negativity.  Oh wait, that's many of you behaved on this forum when BoS was announced.

Edited September 11, 2013 by gavagai

[Jochen]

Not sure why there is so much negativity.  Oh wait, that's many of you behaved on this forum when BoS was announced.

 

Call it a friendly rivalry.

 

A flyable B-17 at DCS level on a 100x160km normandy map... right.

 

It's been indicated that the (EDGE engine, possibly 64-bit) map size can be stretched relatively easily.

If a B-17 were to be developed, along would come a stretch of English coast.

The problem is not the map size, but getting the level of detail in with that kind of budget and planning.

[Rjel]

Not sure why there is so much negativity.  Oh wait, that's many of you behaved on this forum when BoS was announced.

 

Tit for tat I think. It's been on going obviously since CLoD. First one side ripped BoS, now it's payback time I guess. Kinda silly.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

 Kinda silly.

 

+1 Considering how different the sim will be to BoS or any other WWII Flight sim out there at the moment.  All the arguments are based on personal opinions and supposition.

 

 

 

Waiting in anticipation for news from all the major players today.  This is a great time for Combat flight sims (WWII in particular) Who’s got time for being negative?

 

[Sim]

My negativity comes from the fact they have an opportunity here and they are acting like amateurs from the start. Nothing to do with rivalry as I want them to succeed and the competition is always a good thing. That kickstarter is horrible and unattractive and the whole project is advertised based on P-51D that they had nothing to do with. So essentially lots of promises are thrown again (3 DCS level planes before September 2014, really?). It's kind of frustrating.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Sim

[Mogster]

The small map could be intended as the F2P map

[BFsSmurfy]

My negativity comes from the fact they have an opportunity here and they are acting like amateurs from the start. Nothing to do with rivalry as I want them to succeed and the competition is always a good thing. That kickstarter is horrible and unattractive and the whole project is advertised based on P-51D that they had nothing to do with. So essentially lots of promises are thrown again (3 DCS level planes before September 2014, really?). It's kind of frustrating.

Absolutely spot on, he made no posts yesterday on the DCS forum yet pledges are flagging, where`s the images that everyone wants to see, the kickstarter is about as badly done as it could be with mistakes , unachievable goals et etc, and guess what it`s free even if you don`t pledge....great idea that!!!!!. I`ve messaged him more than once he doesn`t seem to grasp just what it is people want to see and I fear the worst, I hope he gets someone in to re-do the kickstarter and deal with the public then it might take off, but at the minute it`s not looking great...damn shame looks like a great chance is being piddled away through poor PR.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

All they need is one more $40 pledge to hit $60K.  Well done and keep up the good work fellow supporters!

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Absolutely spot on, he made no posts yesterday on the DCS forum yet pledges are flagging, where`s the images that everyone wants to see, the kickstarter is about as badly done as it could be with mistakes , unachievable goals et etc, and guess what it`s free even if you don`t pledge....great idea that!!!!!. I`ve messaged him more than once he doesn`t seem to grasp just what it is people want to see and I fear the worst, I hope he gets someone in to re-do the kickstarter and deal with the public then it might take off, but at the minute it`s not looking great...damn shame looks like a great chance is being piddled away through poor PR.

 

 

It does seem they have done nothing themselves yet, which is why ive said the kickstarter looks very premature to me, with dubious timing to say the least.

Its lots of very cool ideas and dreams, that anyone could list who wanted to talk about a perfect yet to be made WW2 sim, but with no product to show.

 

There is nothing to pull in the casual crowd and non simmers who just hear about the KS.

 

Im not even sure what the sim actually is...seems it just a showcase for some DSC planes with a bolt on map.

I hope Luthier sorts all this out.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Furbs

[Skoshi_Tiger]

 

 

Im not even sure what the sim actually is.

 

 

• Robust multiplayer module provides the ultimate challenge by pitting players against each other in heated large-scale battles. 
• Powerful mission and campaign editors allow creation of player-made scenarios. 
• Mission replay system, pilot log book, and other features add to the player experience. 

 

 

Flyable Aircraft:

• Republic P-47D-28 Thunderbolt;
• Supermarine Spitfire Mk IX;
• Messerschmitt Bf-109K-4;
• Focke-Wulf FW.190D-9 (from DCS: World);
• North-American P-51D Mustang (from DCS: World).

 

Non-Flyable Aircraft:

• Boeing B-17G Flying Fortress;
• Messerschmitt Me.262A-1.

 

Landscape: 

• Normandy. Area of the historical D-Day Invasion, as well as the extensive preparation and follow-up battles.

 

Single-Player:

• Training campaign for each aircraft;
• Luftwaffe Fighter campaign (Bf.109);
• British Fighter campaign (Spitfire);
• US Ground Attack campaign (P-47).

 

Multi-Player:

• Selection of missions for each aircraft.

 

Other:

• Authentic ground vehicles, guns, and ships;
• Authentic historical buildings and landmarks;
• Regular content updates.

 

 

Oh they broke 60K

Edited September 12, 2013 by Skoshi_Tiger

[Mac_Messer]

All they need is one more $40 pledge to hit $60K.  Well done and keep up the good work fellow supporters!

Looking good. Concentrate on the first goal then we worry about another. I`m not very fond of the bombers making the lower goal tiers. Making the B17 at DCS level of detail could devower most of the funds and time. I mean even if mp is non existant, a good sp campaign with the level of detail given to each of the flyables could suffice for a great experience. We must be realistic here, so those who criticise the project for not being a BoS expansion really seem confused. 

 

That said I like ambitious projects, which cannot be said about some other games. For now this one needs all the help it can get.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

A flyable B17 will certainly bring the money in IMO. What patriotic American wouldn't want to fly one of those for a start! Now if he mentioned a Lancaster...

[Feathered_IV]

Now if he mentioned a Lancaster...

A night bombing simulator. Now that'd be something, and Edge be damned.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

Pitch black moonless night - darkened cockpit - eight hour flight to target using dead reckoning and an occasional star sighting- dropping your load into the inky black landscape below!

 

How would we be able to tell the difference between a Lancaster and a B-17?

 

Oh! that's right, a correctly modeled Lancaster has coco in the thermos!

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Dambusters...All you need is a hi def Lanc and some telegraph poles to avoid...

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Pitch black moonless night - darkened cockpit - eight hour flight to target using dead reckoning and an occasional star sighting- dropping your load into the inky black landscape below!

 

How would we be able to tell the difference between a Lancaster and a B-17?

 

Oh! that's right, a correctly modeled Lancaster has coco in the thermos!

While there would a few that would absolutley love this. It would fall flat on its face financially. Looks lime this thing is well on its way to funded city! I'd be interested to see if some if the hard core p-51 squads move from 1946 to this. As they might finally have some actual missions to accomplish.

[HagarTheHorrible]

It's interesting watching the math.

 

What people are prepared to pay, sight unseen, for a simulator and also the average amount paid per person (Was $67 yesterday, now it's dropped to $66).

 

Is it possible to further fund, at a later date, once more concrete progress has been demonstrated and possibly a better vision of what they hope ultimately to achieve, I know that, like BoS I would be prepared to risk more funds if I could see more development and have a little more certainty of a final product. Despite CLoD I'm still prepared to give the developers the benefit of the dought, it's not like we can be picky about supporting people who are prepared to devote themselves to trying to fulfill our dreams.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Well it will be made regardless, but it will just be better with the funding. Its backed by the Fighter Collection at Duxford, and it doesn't get any better than that.

[Karaya_one]

60K reached. Support more guys.

[Feathered_IV]

Pitch black moonless night - darkened cockpit - eight hour flight to target using dead reckoning and an occasional star sighting- dropping your load into the inky black landscape below!

 

Some AI crew you can communicate with. Sudden cries to corkscrew left or right. An almighty maelstrom over the target. Or a silent hunter-like cruise in an antlered 110, as your radar man murmurs a fresh contact in your ear. Wouldn't be so bad.

[SYN_Jedders]

So, what happens when it reaches $100,000 mark?...

 

1/ Will your money then be taken?

 

2/ What will you definitely get in real terms and when? (eg; no multiplayer element at release)

 

3/ I understand if more is then given then other marks get hit and other things get made, but what if they arent hit...the game still gets made, right?...

 

Please only answer with FACTS not congecture, thanks.

 

(P.S. dont flame me...its a reasonable set of questions)

Edited September 12, 2013 by SYN_Jedders

[AndyJWest]

(1) If the Kickstarter reaches the goal by the end of the allotted time, yes, money pledged will be taken from your account.

 

(2) As with all Kickstarters, nothing is absolutely certain, though bearing in mind that the DCS:WWII team have other sources of funding, it would seem unlikely that they would deliver nothing at all.

 

(3) See above - and note that the team have stated that the game will still be released, regardless of how the Kickstarter goes.

 

There is always an element of risk with Kickstarter - if you can't afford to take the (small?) risk, you probably shouldn't be a backer. 

[Tektolnes]

1. Yes - only once $100k is hit and KS 30 day window closes

 

2. Sept 2014 full game released. Backers at a certain level will get access to beta before that. There will be multiplayer at release - though how much this is enhanced beyond the current DCS MP setup is still open to question

 

3. The game will get made no matter what happens with KS though timeframes and amount of bug testing may be impacted

[Mogster]

Luthier has stated that the core game with 3 free flyables and the small Normandy map is already funded and will be produced no matter what. The basic KS funding is gravy, paying for map enhancements, extra ground units that type of stuff. If stretch goals are reached then they pay for the development of the additional planes to start now, without the stretch funding development will be later and more depended on the early parts of the project being a success commercially. That info is in the KS proposal, updates and his posts at the ED forum.

 

Negativity has set in as the KS release feels rushed and there seems to be little on show that's actually new. The base game with 3 aircraft is free, that feels like an odd decision but I have no background in marketing. It just doesn't feel like a positive step that'll drive funding. 

 

If you look at some of the very successful general gaming KS projects the dev's are updating multiple times a day, whipping up the fans with an almost religious zeal as the millions roll in. I'd like to see a flightsim KS organised along those lines. I think you need to have updates timetabled for every day of the project at least. There are some very good suggestions on the ED board now, how the rewards could have been organised, stuff that could generate (or could have generated) interest in the project. Realistic proposals. There are still 3 weeks left, enough time to produce stuff and post it, who knows?

 

Its a shame. I feel KS could really work for the genre but the campaign needs to be better managed. Just imo of course.

 

Edit............................

 

The stretch goals have changed, $375 now has the flyable B17 and English airfields.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Mogster

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

I think there is very little chance of hitting 375K, none even IMHO.

 

I think we will have to just see the core sim and go from there.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

I think you're right, but theres no harm in trying! He still has 3 weeks to stir up interest, as long as the wreckers keep away anything could happen. I do know that if it had been my kickstarter I would have been on there 20 hours a day, providing updates and answering questions.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Luthier's absence from the KS forum is a little worrying, though it could be because hes been busy behind the scenes changing the KS stretch goals for the B17(meetings maybe?) and preparing the next video and updates.

 

If he hasn't got anything to show soon then its going to have problems. 

[Mogster]

I do know that if it had been my kickstarter I would have been on there 20 hours a day, providing updates and answering questions.

 

+1

Edited September 12, 2013 by Mogster

[BFsSmurfy]

It`s appearing amateurish to people already, he desperately needs to employ a pro marketing man and get a friggin video up of the Dora dogfighting the P51 or something tangible that makes people think "hey this looks good".  Next post on the Kickstarter has to be a very enticing one, I fear it will be more waffle and little of anything tangible. 2 posts in 3  days on your own section of the DCS forum idsn`t going to get the job done, it`s demoralising to see the total lack of anything tangible, no FB page in this day and age????

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Surly there must be more than just Luthier on the team?

[Jochen]

Surely there must be more than just Luthier on the team?

 

It doesn't appear so. I feel bad for him actually.

 

It`s appearing amateurish to people already, he desperately needs to employ a pro marketing man and get a friggin video up of the Dora dogfighting the P51 or something tangible that makes people think "hey this looks good".  Next post on the Kickstarter has to be a very enticing one, I fear it will be more waffle and little of anything tangible. 2 posts in 3  days on your own section of the DCS forum idsn`t going to get the job done, it`s demoralising to see the total lack of anything tangible, no FB page in this day and age????

 

The ill-preparedness of this is becoming more noticeable, to the point that it becomes embarrassing really.

You would think a partnership with a big studio like ED and TFC would also mean some marketing support.

This isn't the 80's, where a colourful leaflet and boy's dreams suffice. I still hope for the best.

People who complain about the lack of proper combat flight sims should come off the fence now and pledge, regardless of which game studio you support.

Otherwise this genre will be as dead as the subsim genre in a few years time, sadly.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Jochen

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Well, where's Oleg?

[gavagai]

A flyable B17 will certainly bring the money in IMO. What patriotic American wouldn't want to fly one of those for a start! Now if he mentioned a Lancaster...

 

I have very little interest in flying the bombers of any nation. As Josh Echo says, it's like driving a bus.

[AndyJWest]

Well, where's Oleg?

 

According to the Kickstarter page Oleg is acting in an 'advisory' capacity. Make of that what you will...

[Feathered_IV]

Oleg only has a toe in. The fireside piece to camera seemed to suggest that he was being very cautious and did not want to be tied to the project too closely.